|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
|
Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: elax420]
#23993172 - 01/08/17 05:51 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
i think war is bad, and i also can admit that humanity is an illogical species whom often can't be rational, and our history is filled with that which is irrational.
|
elax420
Anal Destroyer


Registered: 10/16/12
Posts: 15,536
|
Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: akira_akuma]
#23993199 - 01/08/17 06:06 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
I think everyone agrees with that.
If someone tries to kill me, I'm going to fight back.
I realize not even close to all Muslims are jihadis, but that can change very quickly. I don't even blame them for this. It makes sense why a young Muslim in Brussels would be so mad at the west. I understand why there is a friction in lands that have a major sectarian divide. I'm not going to blame someone for sticking up for their culture and community, nor am I going to dehumanized them, to make violence against socially acceptable.
However I'm not a member of this community nor will I ever be. Therefore there is always this latent struggle, and vice versa. I'm not saying deport all Muslims, but we should seriously think about letting them become any kind of significant minority. History has shown trouble follows. I'm sure Arab and Turkic nationalists would say the same about me. I'm not even going to say all of our historical problems are there fault.
But I will respond to aggression against my culture and people. If this makes me a bigot I don't fucking care, you can work out your problems with a jihadist insurgency however you see fit.
|
elax420
Anal Destroyer


Registered: 10/16/12
Posts: 15,536
|
Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: elax420]
#23993217 - 01/08/17 06:10 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Hell I'll even settle for a liberal solution.
We should help rebuild Syria and house the most vulnerable of their populations, under one stipulation. They eventually go back
|
The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 34,046
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 1 hour, 38 minutes
|
Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: viktor] 2
#23993296 - 01/08/17 06:32 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
viktor said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
viktor said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: If you attach a prejudice to all Muslims because of how a subset of Muslims will predictably act, thats bigotry. Thats prejudice.
It's not bigotry if that subset is properly representative of the whole.
Muslims don't live peacefully side by side with anyone. That's a fact.
Its not a proper representation of the whole. THATS a fact. Your shitty opinions are not.
Your country just voted in a leader who believes that Muslims should be banned from your country. That's also a fact.
Is it though? He's already backed off basically everything else he fed his flock on the campaign trail. Either way I dont see what the election of Trump has to do with European xenophobia. Why is it so difficult for you two to stay on topic?
--------------------
|
viktor
psychotechnician



Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 4,293
Loc: New Zealand
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
|
Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: elax420]
#23993373 - 01/08/17 06:51 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
The best solution would be to wipe out the snake pit that is Saudi Arabia.
Then we can declare all the oil to be the common property of Muslims, and then they will have a source of income when we move them all back there
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
|
elax420
Anal Destroyer


Registered: 10/16/12
Posts: 15,536
|
Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: viktor]
#23993566 - 01/08/17 07:54 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
viktor said: The best solution would be to wipe out the snake pit that is Saudi Arabia.
Then we can declare all the oil to be the common property of Muslims, and then they will have a source of income when we move them all back there 
It's not our responsibility to find them a source of income. Fuck them, and fuck oil, it's a terrible energy resource.
I feel bad we bombed their entire region for no reason, but that's the neo-liberals fault. The fact they can't reconcile this with their conscious and want Europeans to subsidize an entire continent is why nazis are popping up everywhere too.
You can either have welfare capitalism or open borders, not both.
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
|
Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: elax420]
#23993573 - 01/08/17 07:56 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
neo-libs didn't do Iraq.
this blame game seems to always go back to...why the fuck did the right-wing FUCKHEADS go into Iraq and unleash the beast.
|
elax420
Anal Destroyer


Registered: 10/16/12
Posts: 15,536
|
Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: akira_akuma]
#23993613 - 01/08/17 08:05 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
did bush bomb 7 counties?
Spare me the Iraq bullshit, obama has been fuckig aroundnin Iraq for a while anyway. I have a cousin stationed there right now
|
The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 34,046
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 1 hour, 38 minutes
|
Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: viktor]
#23993624 - 01/08/17 08:08 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
viktor said: The best solution would be to wipe out the snake pit that is Saudi Arabia.
Then we can declare all the oil to be the common property of Muslims, and then they will have a source of income when we move them all back there 
Or we could just stop precipitating and/or propping up the worst governments in the ME and let the invisible hand correct things.
--------------------
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
|
Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: elax420]
#23993649 - 01/08/17 08:15 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
elax420 said: did bush bomb 7 counties?
Spare me the Iraq bullshit, obama has been fuckig aroundnin Iraq for a while anyway. I have a cousin stationed there right now
yes, so history is important except for here, here, it's not important, it's to be ignored, for the sake of placing blame in a narrower sense, then on the shoulders (all the shoulders) that it squarely belongs. of course, for the sense of making things easy for you reconcile.
let's just blame Obama...not Bush. Bush was just a figment of everyone's collective imagination.
|
viktor
psychotechnician



Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 4,293
Loc: New Zealand
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
|
Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23993796 - 01/08/17 09:00 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
viktor said: The best solution would be to wipe out the snake pit that is Saudi Arabia.
Then we can declare all the oil to be the common property of Muslims, and then they will have a source of income when we move them all back there 
Or we could just stop precipitating and/or propping up the worst governments in the ME and let the invisible hand correct things.
Letting the invisible hand correct things might well mean an authoritarian entity takes over the whole Middle East by force.
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
|
elax420
Anal Destroyer


Registered: 10/16/12
Posts: 15,536
|
Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: akira_akuma]
#23993996 - 01/08/17 10:31 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
akira_akuma said:
Quote:
elax420 said: did bush bomb 7 counties?
Spare me the Iraq bullshit, obama has been fuckig aroundnin Iraq for a while anyway. I have a cousin stationed there right now
yes, so history is important except for here, here, it's not important, it's to be ignored, for the sake of placing blame in a narrower sense, then on the shoulders (all the shoulders) that it squarely belongs. of course, for the sense of making things easy for you reconcile.
let's just blame Obama...not Bush. Bush was just a figment of everyone's collective imagination.
Bush was a neoliberal too
He was there for the oil and to open the area for trade. Domestically he deregulated everything.
The only difference between bush and obama is the way they use force. Obama was reluctant to use troops but loved bombs drones sanctions and arming rebels (worst method ever)
Iraq was nothing compared to Syria. We didn't nearly start a war with a nuclear armed nation over Iraq. Obama is fabricating intelligence now to discredit trump and cover his own ass. The only good thing obama did was gay marriage.
Literally everything else was shit.
Don't try to lecture me on American politics now Canada. Trudeau is a fuckbg pussy. Didn't even go to castros funeral yet claims to be a leftist. Signed TPP too
The only thing the dems have is blaming bush. It's tired and untrue(oh bush definitely sucked) they had a super majority for 4 years and didn't do shit
I bet trump gets 8 years the democrats are all but dead
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
|
Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: elax420]
#23994035 - 01/08/17 10:58 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Bush was a neoliberal too
sure, but he ran as a republican, it's the RIGHT that lapped up all this leaky gushes of bullshit.
that's the point: everyone knows that leolibs and neocons are the same thing...thus, the terms are essentially useless. he ran REPUBLICAN.
there's no reason to continuously try and stand up for him in this area. admit that everyone screwed you, and everyone get's screwed; both on the "left" and the "right", people got screwed by their elected officials. period. no need for more stories.
Quote:
Don't try to lecture me on American politics now Canada. Trudeau is a fuckbg pussy. Didn't even go to castros funeral yet claims to be a leftist. Signed TPP too
i'm not trying to lecture you...you're the one lecturing people.
|
qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 6 hours, 8 minutes
|
Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23994656 - 01/09/17 09:15 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Can you use the quote feature like a functional forum user?
Quote:
"you defended bigotry by claiming that its predictable"
No, I asked the question, is it bigotry or justifiable reaction.
First of all, I asked the question. And it was about bigotry. But to answer yours once again, its both.
Quote:
"understandable because of how SOME Muslims' actions reflect on the entirety of Muslims"
Again, this isn't just about the criminal acts of "SOME" Muslims, it's about how ALL practicing Muslims that have values and behaviors that clash with Western culture, big difference.
Yes, it is a big difference. So stop lumping in people who eat Halal and wear veils with decapitating terrorists. AGAIN, the question is about xenophobia. And AGAIN, ALL religions clash with Western liberal ideals. I dont see your demonizing rhetoric being used against Christians in the US for wanting to outlaw abortion and persecute gays.
Quote:
You're trying to say the lack of integration and the clash of cultures is just based on a very minority segment of the Muslim population and that the rest of them are just fine in the EU, that's a completely disingenuous and simplistic argument.
Yay, more qman telling me what I'm arguing, when I'm not.
No, I'm not arguing that. I'm saying the bad apples of Islam have poisoned their culture's well in the eyes of SOME Europeans, who are being prejudice against ALL Muslims. Get off the "even the moderates will destroy Europe" kick. It isnt gonna happen. Just like abortion will never be illegal in the US no matter how big the ridiculous Christian majority gets.
Quote:
Are just a few Muslims that live in the no go zones a problem? No, each one that lives in those areas are a major problem for the host nation.
Cool bigotry. Thanks for playing. And just know that if you cant muster the know how to use the quote button I'm not gonna respond to your impending wall of text. If I can do it on my tiny ass cell phone, so can you.
"ALL religions clash with Western liberal ideals"
That's not true and it also depends to what extreme the followers of that religion practice their faith.
Why are you trying to lump all religious people with Muslims? Are you suggesting Buddhism and Hinduism also have similar cultural clashes "with Western liberal ideals"?
"I don't see your demonizing rhetoric being used against Christians"
I have the same issue with radical Christians, thankfully there are very few practicing Christians in the US and the big difference is that they usually blend into society with little issue.
|
qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 6 hours, 8 minutes
|
Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23994664 - 01/09/17 09:21 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Unless you're suggesting that xenophobia is common sense, then your comment is irrelevant.
If that fear is based on rational outcomes, then yes it would be commonsense.
Why do people avoid living in poor inner city slums, pure bigotry or commonsense?
Thats an utter shit analogy and I suspect you know it.
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Also, you dont know shit about day to day living with these people.
I have been to the EU over 20 times with many stays over two weeks. I have spoken to many EU natives about their "day to day living" with the Muslim populations.
Why did I constantly hear negative stories from VERY liberal natives?
Because confirmation bias? Either way its anecdote. I wipe my ass with self confirming internet anecdote. And you should know I won the International Anecdote Ass Wiping Tournament 4 years running. I'm in sponsorship talks with Charmin.
Well, you suggested I didn't "know shit" about the day to day living with Muslims in the EU and I showed otherwise.
Now maybe all of the people I talked with were bigots in your world, but to me they were just normal people telling me their real life experiences.
BTW, I never asked the question, this was a subject matter that they brought to my attention.
|
qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 6 hours, 8 minutes
|
Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Enlil] 2
#23994670 - 01/09/17 09:25 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Enlil said: That's a ridiculous claim. The majority of muslims that live in non-muslim communities are law-abiding citizens.
How would anyone know what laws Muslims are breaking in no go zones?
Is the standard so low for Muslims in Western nations that the main criteria for success is their arrest rates?
|
qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 6 hours, 8 minutes
|
Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
#23994716 - 01/09/17 09:49 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/12/15/rapes-murders-bavaria-warns-losing-control-streets/
"the comments of State Minister for Finance, Regional Development and Home Affairs Markus Soder Thursday when he said the security situation in the country was deteriorating and mass migrant was to blame."
"Remarking 'our wives and daughters are increasingly afraid of sexual assaults' Soder called for more police power and deportation for migrants"
"the minister did not mince his words when he told the newspaper 'when citizens no longer feel safe to visit neighbourhoods, the state loses its authority...this is now about homeland security."
|
qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 6 hours, 8 minutes
|
Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
#23995260 - 01/09/17 01:32 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/sweden-democrats-far-right-trump-brexit-le-pen-cant-blame-inequality-a7433966.html
"Sweden Democrats has risen to 21.5 percent...Social Democrats, with 25.7 percent of support"
Looks like the Mal might find himself in the minority when it comes to his views on immigration in his country.
|
viktor
psychotechnician



Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 4,293
Loc: New Zealand
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
|
Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
#23996129 - 01/09/17 06:28 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
He already is in the minority.
If the SD wants a total stop to Muslim immigration and are polling at 21.5%, you can guarantee that there are many, many more Swedes who want a stop to it but aren't willing to vote SD.
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
|
Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: viktor]
#23996208 - 01/09/17 06:46 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
no one wants to deal with their actual problems, their motivations are emotionless.
|
|