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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman] 1
#23991815 - 01/08/17 08:37 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
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The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
qman said:
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The Ecstatic said: The native culture of the US was killed off by the time your ancestors made it here.
BUT, you're right that the level of hatred amongst white immigrants is nothing like what we see in Europe now. A better comparison would be how the Chinese were treated in the American West.
"level of hatred...is nothing like what we see in Europe now"
Why is that? Pure bigotry or justifiable reactions considering the circumstances surrounding the lack of integration results?
Both. I wish you would understand that its both.
It seems more often than not you operate under the premise that anti-muslim bigotry simply doesnt exist, or worse: is 100% justified (and therefore isnt actually bigotry).
"anti-muslim bigotry...is 100% justified"
Well, it's 100% predictable in my opinion. That's why I'm in favor of deportation and closed borders.
The point is that other minority groups don't bring the same baggage as Muslims/Africans, therefore the reaction isn't mainly based in xenophobia or bigotry.
100% predictable, really?
So now xenophobia in Europe isnt a problem because the EU elite should have seen it coming? And even then, its the Muslims' fault for some of them acting in a way that promotes xenophobia.
See. This is why we try like hell to actually get you to answer a question. Because it doesnt get more victim blaming than this.
How is this any different than "well i saw the rape coming a mile away. This is why women should be veiled and kept separate. The point is men dont wear short skirts and have titties bouncing around, therefore the intent to rape is justified."
Could you victim blame any more? Utterly ridiculous. Just utterly fucking ridiculous.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic] 2
#23991821 - 01/08/17 08:42 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Without even realizing it, you defended bigotry by claiming that its predictable, and that its understandable because of how SOME Muslims' actions reflect on the entirety of Muslims.
So......yeah. The definition of bigotry.
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qman
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23991864 - 01/08/17 09:08 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: The native culture of the US was killed off by the time your ancestors made it here.
BUT, you're right that the level of hatred amongst white immigrants is nothing like what we see in Europe now. A better comparison would be how the Chinese were treated in the American West.
"level of hatred...is nothing like what we see in Europe now"
Why is that? Pure bigotry or justifiable reactions considering the circumstances surrounding the lack of integration results?
Both. I wish you would understand that its both.
It seems more often than not you operate under the premise that anti-muslim bigotry simply doesnt exist, or worse: is 100% justified (and therefore isnt actually bigotry).
"anti-muslim bigotry...is 100% justified"
Well, it's 100% predictable in my opinion. That's why I'm in favor of deportation and closed borders.
The point is that other minority groups don't bring the same baggage as Muslims/Africans, therefore the reaction isn't mainly based in xenophobia or bigotry.
100% predictable, really?
So now xenophobia in Europe isnt a problem because the EU elite should have seen it coming? And even then, its the Muslims' fault for some of them acting in a way that promotes xenophobia.
See. This is why we try like hell to actually get you to answer a question. Because it doesnt get more victim blaming than this.
How is this any different than "well i saw the rape coming a mile away. This is why women should be veiled and kept separate. The point is men dont wear short skirts and have titties bouncing around, therefore the intent to rape is justified."
Could you victim blame any more? Utterly ridiculous. Just utterly fucking ridiculous.
"Muslims' fault for some of them acting in a way that promotes xenophobia"
If they're practicing Muslims, wouldn't it be most of them acting in a way that promotes a culture that clashes with Western liberal values? You seem to be focused just on some terrorist act, I'm talking about day to day living with these people.
Why would you find it surprising that flooding millions of poor Muslim/Africa migrants with no skills/education, money, language or Western values into the EU would turn into a social-economic disaster? It was 100% predictable, that isn't "victim blaming", it's basic commonsense.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman] 2
#23991871 - 01/08/17 09:11 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Unless you're suggesting that xenophobia is common sense, then your comment is irrelevant.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic] 1
#23991875 - 01/08/17 09:12 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Also, you dont know shit about day to day living with these people.
You have zero first hand experience and you live two continents away. You probably learned to ride a bike before you laid eyes on a minority.
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qman
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23991880 - 01/08/17 09:15 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Without even realizing it, you defended bigotry by claiming that its predictable, and that its understandable because of how SOME Muslims' actions reflect on the entirety of Muslims.
So......yeah. The definition of bigotry. 
"you defended bigotry by claiming that its predictable"
No, I asked the question, is it bigotry or justifiable reaction.
"understandable because of how SOME Muslims' actions reflect on the entirety of Muslims"
Again, this isn't just about the criminal acts of "SOME" Muslims, it's about how ALL practicing Muslims that have values and behaviors that clash with Western culture, big difference.
You're trying to say the lack of integration and the clash of cultures is just based on a very minority segment of the Muslim population and that the rest of them are just fine in the EU, that's a completely disingenuous and simplistic argument.
Are just a few Muslims that live in the no go zones a problem? No, each one that lives in those areas are a major problem for the host nation.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic] 3
#23991885 - 01/08/17 09:17 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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So many strawmen.....
1. ANY practicing member of an Abrahamic religion clashes with Western liberal values.
2. Something being predictable isnt common sense. Leaving a power vacuum in the ME predictably spawned ISIS. Common sense? Please. Stop trying to justify xenophobia. And if youre not, then youre off topic in relation to my question that you keep trying (and failing) to answer.
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qman
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic] 2
#23991890 - 01/08/17 09:19 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Unless you're suggesting that xenophobia is common sense, then your comment is irrelevant.
If that fear is based on rational outcomes, then yes it would be commonsense.
Why do people avoid living in poor inner city slums, pure bigotry or commonsense?
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qman
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic] 1
#23991897 - 01/08/17 09:22 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Also, you dont know shit about day to day living with these people.
I have been to the EU over 20 times with many stays over two weeks. I have spoken to many EU natives about their "day to day living" with the Muslim populations.
Why did I constantly hear negative stories from VERY liberal natives?
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic] 2
#23991903 - 01/08/17 09:25 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Can you use the quote feature like a functional forum user?
Quote:
"you defended bigotry by claiming that its predictable"
No, I asked the question, is it bigotry or justifiable reaction.
First of all, I asked the question. And it was about bigotry. But to answer yours once again, its both.
Quote:
"understandable because of how SOME Muslims' actions reflect on the entirety of Muslims"
Again, this isn't just about the criminal acts of "SOME" Muslims, it's about how ALL practicing Muslims that have values and behaviors that clash with Western culture, big difference.
Yes, it is a big difference. So stop lumping in people who eat Halal and wear veils with decapitating terrorists. AGAIN, the question is about xenophobia. And AGAIN, ALL religions clash with Western liberal ideals. I dont see your demonizing rhetoric being used against Christians in the US for wanting to outlaw abortion and persecute gays.
Quote:
You're trying to say the lack of integration and the clash of cultures is just based on a very minority segment of the Muslim population and that the rest of them are just fine in the EU, that's a completely disingenuous and simplistic argument.
Yay, more qman telling me what I'm arguing, when I'm not.
No, I'm not arguing that. I'm saying the bad apples of Islam have poisoned their culture's well in the eyes of SOME Europeans, who are being prejudice against ALL Muslims. Get off the "even the moderates will destroy Europe" kick. It isnt gonna happen. Just like abortion will never be illegal in the US no matter how big the ridiculous Christian majority gets.
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Are just a few Muslims that live in the no go zones a problem? No, each one that lives in those areas are a major problem for the host nation.
Cool bigotry. Thanks for playing. And just know that if you cant muster the know how to use the quote button I'm not gonna respond to your impending wall of text. If I can do it on my tiny ass cell phone, so can you.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman] 2
#23991905 - 01/08/17 09:27 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Unless you're suggesting that xenophobia is common sense, then your comment is irrelevant.
If that fear is based on rational outcomes, then yes it would be commonsense.
Why do people avoid living in poor inner city slums, pure bigotry or commonsense?
Thats an utter shit analogy and I suspect you know it.
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Also, you dont know shit about day to day living with these people.
I have been to the EU over 20 times with many stays over two weeks. I have spoken to many EU natives about their "day to day living" with the Muslim populations.
Why did I constantly hear negative stories from VERY liberal natives?
Because confirmation bias? Either way its anecdote. I wipe my ass with self confirming internet anecdote. And you should know I won the International Anecdote Ass Wiping Tournament 4 years running. I'm in sponsorship talks with Charmin.
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elax420
Anal Destroyer


Registered: 10/16/12
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23992219 - 01/08/17 11:57 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Without even realizing it, you defended bigotry by claiming that its predictable, and that its understandable because of how SOME Muslims' actions reflect on the entirety of Muslims.
So......yeah. The definition of bigotry. 
And this statement is the definition of liberalism
What's next? Violence against nazis makes you as bad as nazis
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: elax420] 4
#23992333 - 01/08/17 12:50 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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lol. No, it isnt.
If you attach a prejudice to all Muslims because of how a subset of Muslims will predictably act, thats bigotry. Thats prejudice.
If I took a sample of 6 million US Christians, I could predictably assess that some of them are against abortion, and think the earth is 5,000 years old. Would I apply that assessment to all of those 6 millions Christians? No, because that is literally the definition of prejudice. Pre judge. Prejudice.
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viktor
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic] 1
#23993080 - 01/08/17 05:13 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: If you attach a prejudice to all Muslims because of how a subset of Muslims will predictably act, thats bigotry. Thats prejudice.
It's not bigotry if that subset is properly representative of the whole.
Muslims don't live peacefully side by side with anyone. That's a fact.
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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Morel Guy
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: viktor]
#23993083 - 01/08/17 05:14 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Religion is designed to fuck everyone over.
-------------------- "in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur" In filth it will be found in dung it will be found
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Enlil
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: viktor] 4
#23993084 - 01/08/17 05:15 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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That's a ridiculous claim. The majority of muslims that live in non-muslim communities are law-abiding citizens.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: viktor] 3
#23993089 - 01/08/17 05:17 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
viktor said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: If you attach a prejudice to all Muslims because of how a subset of Muslims will predictably act, thats bigotry. Thats prejudice.
It's not bigotry if that subset is properly representative of the whole.
Muslims don't live peacefully side by side with anyone. That's a fact.
Its not a proper representation of the whole. THATS a fact. Your shitty opinions are not.
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viktor
psychotechnician



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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic] 1
#23993135 - 01/08/17 05:32 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
viktor said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: If you attach a prejudice to all Muslims because of how a subset of Muslims will predictably act, thats bigotry. Thats prejudice.
It's not bigotry if that subset is properly representative of the whole.
Muslims don't live peacefully side by side with anyone. That's a fact.
Its not a proper representation of the whole. THATS a fact. Your shitty opinions are not.
Your country just voted in a leader who believes that Muslims should be banned from your country. That's also a fact.
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
Edited by viktor (01/08/17 06:22 PM)
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elax420
Anal Destroyer


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23993158 - 01/08/17 05:45 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: lol. No, it isnt.
If you attach a prejudice to all Muslims because of how a subset of Muslims will predictably act, thats bigotry. Thats prejudice.
If I took a sample of 6 million US Christians, I could predictably assess that some of them are against abortion, and think the earth is 5,000 years old. Would I apply that assessment to all of those 6 millions Christians? No, because that is literally the definition of prejudice. Pre judge. Prejudice.
No shit.
You can spout your liberal kumbaya bullshit all you want. That's not how the world works though.
That liberal kumbaya bullshit is just self gratification, the liberal politicans just pour gas on the the flames and expect the fire to stop. It's a cycle of violence that extends longer than the entirety of american, hell even English, history.
I mean it's cute that you think can stop a conflict that has billions of moving pieces. All I know when shit hits the fan you have you family, your friends, and your political/ethnic compatriots. Liberals keep fucking over cultures and states that are at very least sympathetic to your struggles, for people that will have you executed for drawing a stick figure. You also create a powerful fascist undercurrent that you completely disregard. Remember the fucking liberals thought hitler would stop with the Sudetenland, and counted this as a political victory. That gives them culpability for one of the greatest crises ever faced by humanity
Oh and the vast majority of Muslims completely avoided this chapter of history.
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ballsalsa
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: viktor] 2
#23993166 - 01/08/17 05:48 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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So? killer whales are actually dolphins. that is a fact as well.
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