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Malkuthian
Fetus



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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bubbles85] 1
#22760665 - 01/10/16 09:02 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Bubbles85 said: That help has been provided through the generosity of a foreign nation and they been invited into Germany and this is this is how they thank them.
It's wholly unacceptable. They've not been in the country for 5 seconds and they have all ready committed a mass sexual assault.
Clearly there not that desperate for help after all.
"They"?
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Bigbadwooof
Snitterbundem The Dirty



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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: airclay] 1
#22760746 - 01/10/16 09:31 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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airclay said:
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Bubbles85 said: As i said in another thread, trying to generalize the problem and spread it out into the rest of society, or skew the facts, is the wrong approach and one that will all most certainly back fire in the long run.
are you sure that pinning it on a religion/ethnicity and leading a fear based war against them isn't going to back fire? have you not been paying attention to the last 20yrs of middle eastern history? How about we step back and tackle the real issue here, the idea that any one person can touch another person without permission. Let's teach everyone that no matter what your cultural beliefs may hold (christian, islam, hindu) that you must keep your fucking hands to yourself in public.
you say islam I say hegemonic masculinity 
I think we should focus on certain kinds of touching. Inappropriate touching. For instance, tapping someone on the shoulder is not inappropriate touching. When you start this sort of campaign, it should be pursued in a way that doesn't exacerbate xenophobia.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bigbadwooof] 1
#22760786 - 01/10/16 09:45 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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inapropriate, unwelcomed touching yes, that was what I was thinking w/o explaining fully.
-------------------- Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: airclay]
#22760942 - 01/10/16 10:38 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Does anyone believe that absolutely every ethnicity/race is compatible with western civilization on average?
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Tipote
petty crook and transvestite



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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Shins]
#22761777 - 01/10/16 01:45 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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yup
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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength
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Tipote
petty crook and transvestite



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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: airclay]
#22761811 - 01/10/16 01:53 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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airclay said:
Quote:
Bubbles85 said: As i said in another thread, trying to generalize the problem and spread it out into the rest of society, or skew the facts, is the wrong approach and one that will all most certainly back fire in the long run.
are you sure that pinning it on a religion/ethnicity and leading a fear based war against them isn't going to back fire? have you not been paying attention to the last 20yrs of middle eastern history? How about we step back and tackle the real issue here, the idea that any one person can touch another person without permission. Let's teach everyone that no matter what your cultural beliefs may hold (christian, islam, hindu) that you must keep your fucking hands to yourself in public.
you say islam I say hegemonic masculinity 
excellent post
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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength
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Tipote
petty crook and transvestite



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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bubbles85] 1
#22761852 - 01/10/16 02:00 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Bubbles85 said: Clearly there not that desperate for help after all.
pretty weird assumption.
0.1% of the refugee population of Europe did this yet the rest arent desperate.
criminals are gna be criminal. Don't blame the rest of them.
This is exactly why the EU governments are so fucking sketchy about saying things clearly because they know simple minded people will blame everyone and run around like headless chickens shitting everywhere.
bubbles you just can get over the obstacle we have set for you - to provide evidence that there is something unique about islam that makes people want to rape and steal - two acts that are illegal under Sharia law.
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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength
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Bigbadwooof
Snitterbundem The Dirty



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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Tipote]
#22761982 - 01/10/16 02:21 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Shins said: Does anyone believe that absolutely every ethnicity/race is compatible with western civilization on average?
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Tipote said: yup
Let me ask you, Tipote, do you believe that I could drop you off in Afghanistan or Somalia and you would assimilate? How about if I dropped you off with 10,000 Americans and not a dime to your name?
If your answer is 'yes', then you clearly don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Your ideals blind you from reality. Assimilation may be possible, however, I believe it takes a lot more effort from both sides than either side is willing to give. It takes sacrifice from the immigrant, and a level of patience, social education and skills, and financial burden on the host country, that you are not likely to find. Especially for immigrants from parts of the world that the west is at war with.
This is about more than left vs right wing politics. I don't think anyone involved is the 'evil party', though the right wing is the party with the more callous approach, and the frustration and anger do easily manifest in uncivilized ways.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
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Tipote
petty crook and transvestite



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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bigbadwooof] 1
#22762182 - 01/10/16 03:09 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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LOL BBW, you seem to be jumping the gun a little assuming a response like, "yeh sure no probzzz" haha
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Assimilation may be possible, however, I believe it takes a lot more effort from both sides than either side is willing to give. It takes sacrifice from the immigrant, and a level of patience, social education and skills, and financial burden on the host country, that you are not likely to find.
I agree! It's no doubt very difficult but for sure its possible.
In Somalia I would probably be kidnapped and ransomed. Having 3 Western nationalities ( if i had all my passports) would not be good for me. I would die, or be in prison/tortured as a spy, or ransomed.
In Afghanistan.. probably killed for being Western because of the war. Before the war was a much different story. I like the story of this guy who is regarded as native pashtun in afghanistan.
this is also interesting - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pashtunwali US soldiers were protected by some Pashtun villages because of this code of law
there was this guy who managed to become quite friendly with alot of the Pashtuns, he was the guy that the taliban swapped with the Americans, hes been imprisoned for desertion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowe_Bergdahl#Military_career
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Bergdahl's unit was deployed to Afghanistan in May 2009.[20] His unit was sent to an outpost named Mest-Malak in Afghanistan to conduct counterinsurgency operations. Bergdahl began learning to speak Pashto, and according to Fry, Bergdahl "began to gravitate away from his unit", spending "more time with the Afghans than he did with his platoon".
I cant find the link that i'm looking for but I read he was smoking hash with them, made lots of friends, learnt the languages fluently. eventually he was caught by the taliban but even then he kinda became friendly with them..celebrating christmas with them, playing badmington etc etc
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10868955/Bowe-Bergdahl-played-badminton-with-his-Taliban-captors.html
its not assimilating but i thought i would share soemthing about Rory Stewart. He is a UK politician and looks like a 12 year old boy but he walked the length and breadth of these countries, learnt much of the language and customs, made friends etc. all of this between 2000 and 2002.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rory_Stewart#Walking_and_travel
he is a very intelligent guy and has made some documentaries that are worth watching if you ever are so inclined. He also wrote a book about it as well as an article that i can't find right now about the flaws of the US-led invasion. about the fact that in the past, soldiers would learn the language and interact with people on the ground to understand the community and therefore act more efficiently.. the contrast is that nowadays there is complete separation, learning the language is almost frowned upon and discouraged. the separation means so many more misunderstandings, killings etc.
https://www.ted.com/talks/rory_stewart_time_to_end_the_war_in_afghanistan?language=en
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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength
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Bigbadwooof
Snitterbundem The Dirty



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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Tipote]
#22762428 - 01/10/16 04:01 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I actually didn't think you would answer 'yes' lol.
Anyways, I've seen the little documentary about the US soldier and the Pashtuns. Even before the war, I wouldn't rely on something like that happening lol! Really, I think these wars may serve a purpose in the Middle Eastern world, but I'm not entirely sure exactly what that will be. It may shove them into modernity in some way.
I don't think Middle Eastern people are all bad people, or anything like that. I think they've been torn apart by religion for far too long, and I think we should put blame where blame is due. Iraq was once the intellectual hub of the world, and religion halted progression in that region. Let's not excuse Islam. Any progress the Western world has made has been in spite of Christianity, and because most of the values taught in the Bible are ignored, even by the staunchest of Evangelicals. Nobody kills their neighbor for working on Sunday, and they wouldn't dream of it.
My point was that these Syrian refugees will never make a home in countries that don't want them. Even if only 1/3 of the country doesn't want them. Not only that, but the refugees don't want to be there. It takes a concerted effort from both sides of the equation to make it happen on such a large scale.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
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Tipote
petty crook and transvestite



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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22762847 - 01/10/16 05:26 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Bigbadwooof said: I actually didn't think you would answer 'yes' lol.
Anyways, I've seen the little documentary about the US soldier and the Pashtuns. Even before the war, I wouldn't rely on something like that happening lol! Really, I think these wars may serve a purpose in the Middle Eastern world, but I'm not entirely sure exactly what that will be. It may shove them into modernity in some way.
I don't think Middle Eastern people are all bad people, or anything like that. I think they've been torn apart by religion for far too long, and I think we should put blame where blame is due. Iraq was once the intellectual hub of the world, and religion halted progression in that region. Let's not excuse Islam. Any progress the Western world has made has been in spite of Christianity, and because most of the values taught in the Bible are ignored, even by the staunchest of Evangelicals. Nobody kills their neighbor for working on Sunday, and they wouldn't dream of it.
My point was that these Syrian refugees will never make a home in countries that don't want them. Even if only 1/3 of the country doesn't want them. Not only that, but the refugees don't want to be there. It takes a concerted effort from both sides of the equation to make it happen on such a large scale.
hehe phew!
Serve a purpose? I think they will yes. Modernity is surely part of it. The $billions in contracts for Western companies and NGOs right now are bringing alot of change to the country. I have some friends working in that area. I think also an increased desire for independence - as is the Pashtun way. But I dont really think thats going to happen.
Islam halt the progress? Islam contributed to the golden age in the region. Islam can be a fuel for progress. But i agree that religions in general hold people back in many ways. It can go either way. But I think the trends that we'll see can either go one of two ways. A détente which will encourage a trend of increasing secualism in the region or an escalation which will only cause a recoiling back into rigidly conservative islamic dogmatic identity. How the West reacts will play a large part to how this trend goes. Do we show islamophobia and rejection in the west to our muslim youth or do we accept them? It is the youth who will lead the way.
I generally think that secularism among islamic nations is on the rise partly because of the westernisation of muslims in the west or connected through the internet, and due to globalisation. The Palestinian youth are some of the most secular i've come across - partly because most of them are refugees assimilated into countries all over the world. Also quite secular are the Moroccans and Tunisians though many countries have a long way to go. Many Syrians were very close to Western "standard". There were many religions and ethnicities all living together.
Region ripped apart by religion? Absolutely this has had a large part to play but personally i would put more emphasis on the outside intervention. From that story about the western guy who became pashtun, things werent too bad in afghanistan but then they became the proxy for the soviets and the usa. That brought militants from all over and extremist religious interpretations. So I do see religion as a big force, of course, but it was fuelled by the interventions so i'd rather say "ripped apart by outside intervention". Even in the 1840s when the British were in Afghanistan, they were massacring people then and when we returned there in 2001, the afghans remembered. some of them remembered their grandfathers stories of the british invasion and massacres.. so the Afghans must think.. WTF kind of beef do the British have with us??!
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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 22,548
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: airclay]
#22763097 - 01/10/16 06:18 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
airclay said:
are you sure that pinning it on a religion/ethnicity and leading a fear based war against them isn't going to back fire? have you not been paying attention to the last 20yrs of middle eastern history? How about we step back and tackle the real issue here, the idea that any one person can touch another person without permission. Let's teach everyone that no matter what your cultural beliefs may hold (christian, islam, hindu) that you must keep your fucking hands to yourself in public.
you say islam I say hegemonic masculinity 
Quote:
Let's teach everyone
One can spend their entire life trying to raise just one other person's moral standards, and in the end it is all in their hands. Trying to reeducate the world?
That is equivalent to suggesting "we" "establish world peace". It would be lovely, but its not happening.
Since I've posted criticism, my proposed solution would be to negotiate land for current and future refugees somewhere in the ME or NA. It would also help to dismantle the Saudi regime and stop funding "moderate extremists".
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qman
Stranger

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Tipote]
#22763213 - 01/10/16 06:41 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Tipote said: absolutely, the concerns are very serious. Its just so inflated by the media that thrives on this kind of thing and so too the minds that are small and fearful of everything different.
I would love to have seen the far right go this bat shit crazy when white people rape western women but it doesn't happen. It shows its not the rape and sexual assault that they have a particular problem with, its the fact that foreign people are doing it.
Fear breeds hate, hate leads to anger, anger leads to suffering. Good old Yoda, where are you when we need you most?
Are there any examples of white gangs premeditating sexual assault on large groups of women? If not, why are you making the analogy?
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qman
Stranger

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Shins]
#22763243 - 01/10/16 06:46 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Shins said: Does anyone believe that absolutely every ethnicity/race is compatible with western civilization on average?
Only the delusional, every major European leader has already admitted publicly that "cultural diversity" is a failure.
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Bigbadwooof
Snitterbundem The Dirty



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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
#22763779 - 01/10/16 08:26 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Shins said: Does anyone believe that absolutely every ethnicity/race is compatible with western civilization on average?
Only the delusional, every major European leader has already admitted publicly that "cultural diversity" is a failure.
I don't think it's 'cultural diversity' on the whole. There are a lot of factors at play in any given situation.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
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Bigbadwooof
Snitterbundem The Dirty



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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Tipote]
#22763786 - 01/10/16 08:28 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Tipote, we will have to agree to disagree on this point. I believe Islam has tortured the Middle Eastern soul for longer, and to a greater degree than external forces.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman] 1
#22764753 - 01/11/16 03:14 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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qman said: every major European leader has already admitted publicly that "cultural diversity" is a failure.
Is integration with assimilation a failure??? As I said before, I've met a good number of people from mideastern countries such as Iran who have assimilated amazingly well. I wouldn't know they were from another country if not for their accent. In fact, I don't think I've yet met an immigrant who hasn't assimilated.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Tipote
petty crook and transvestite



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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
#22764801 - 01/11/16 04:13 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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qman said:
Quote:
Shins said: Does anyone believe that absolutely every ethnicity/race is compatible with western civilization on average?
Only the delusional, every major European leader has already admitted publicly that "cultural diversity" is a failure.
I kind of imagine you have a tattoo with that quote over your heart. LOL
Merkel said in the same speech that the approach as it stands has failed and that greater efforts need to be made at integration, including a focus on language.
she made the distinction between side by side vs integration. That is not saying the same thing that all different people cant live together in an integrated system.
Many integration and assimilate just fine. Some don't and of course that causes problems.
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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength
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Tipote
petty crook and transvestite



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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22764807 - 01/11/16 04:16 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Bigbadwooof said: Tipote, we will have to agree to disagree on this point. I believe Islam has tortured the Middle Eastern soul for longer, and to a greater degree than external forces.
yes i think we shall have to. I do agree but i dont think its the generic "islam" i think its particular brands of islam that come from Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, they have been very destruction, no doubt.
but i know you be hating religion with a passion, and thats fine - its pretty understandable for the most part.
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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength
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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 2,788
Loc: Texas
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Repertoire89] 1
#22764957 - 01/11/16 06:39 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Repertoire89 said:
Quote:
airclay said:
are you sure that pinning it on a religion/ethnicity and leading a fear based war against them isn't going to back fire? have you not been paying attention to the last 20yrs of middle eastern history? How about we step back and tackle the real issue here, the idea that any one person can touch another person without permission. Let's teach everyone that no matter what your cultural beliefs may hold (christian, islam, hindu) that you must keep your fucking hands to yourself in public.
you say islam I say hegemonic masculinity 
Quote:
Let's teach everyone
One can spend their entire life trying to raise just one other person's moral standards, and in the end it is all in their hands. Trying to reeducate the world?
That is equivalent to suggesting "we" "establish world peace". It would be lovely, but its not happening.
Since I've posted criticism, my proposed solution would be to negotiate land for current and future refugees somewhere in the ME or NA. It would also help to dismantle the Saudi regime and stop funding "moderate extremists".
But that land is already being occupied by others, I do really like your last two suggestions tho 
your views on feminism and world peace are quite defeatist, no? why try at all? why wake up tomorrow?
-------------------- Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!
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