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InvisibleBoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: WAN] * 1
    #22741427 - 01/05/16 07:39 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

WAN said:
Quote:

Tipote said:
because we arent just talking about foreigners. we are talking about those becoming citizens who then in turn contribute to their societies. or they are stateless people or refugees who should be helped to integrate.





Well I don't doubt you personally really want to help these immigrants but I think for the world's governments to do that, it just doesn't seem right.  Governments' job is to take care of its citizenry, first and foremost.  It is NOT the job of governments to take in stateless people or refugees. 




Compared to most of the world, the US government does an okay job of taking care of its citizens. The US certainly also has the resources to help those less fortunate.

"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"


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DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

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InvisibleStarter
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Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 1,148
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: hostileuniverse] * 1
    #22741483 - 01/05/16 07:54 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Tipote:

Quote:

lol. This is your attitude. "our" women? Wtf are you talking about?




I collectively called Western women our women. They work, pay taxes and live in the West where they deserve policies that ensure their freedom, security and prosperity.

Quote:

Pamela Geller is a well established Islamophobe.




The credentials of Pamela Geller aside, the word "Islamophobia" has been hatched to shut down any and all critism of Islam. The ultimate aim is to outlaw any criticism of Islam.

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The first video doesnt seem to be a Muslim, he seems to be from eastern/south eastern europe to me.
Even if he was Muslim, this isnt a case for how Islam makes rapists. Its more a case that young men are often socially and sexually retarded.




He’s Muslim and has the typical misogynist attitude of their ilk.

Quote:

Dude, you are a serious racist. koranimals? Australia has a long record historically and to the present day of gross racism. Land of Murdoch.




Totally serious, and absolutely proud of Australia having taken the land from the stone age who did nothing with it for 40,000 years, and then made it into a very enviable and livable first world in just 200 years. Not bad for a former colony when mother England who has sadly lost her imperialist way doesn’t even make the list. http://qz.com/575433/once-again-norway-has-been-voted-the-best-country-in-the-world-for-humans/

Remember, the White Australia Policy only ended in 1973 and by that point the nation was fully developed, so it was all up a 100% White achievement! - can’t get better than that.

Though a close second *wink* was the British Empire, which ruled over more land and sea than any Empire in history. No doubt you’re deeply ashamed of that, being a Leftist. So to atone for such sins you want the third world to pour in like some horror out of the book ‘Camp of the Saints’. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Camp_of_the_Saints

Quote:

Where does it show that it was because they were muslim? Why arent you making the case that it is because they were lebanese origin or because they were australian, or because they were youths?!
Where does it show that these dickheads specifically targetted non-muslims?




There are plenty of sources on Bilal Skaf and his Muslim Lebanese gang rape gang, and that their victims were White Australian women targeted because they were White and not Muslim. The whole case tore the Left up Downunder as the real racism was from the Muslims towards the host nation’s White women no matter the mad howls of “Islamophobia”.

http://www.news.com.au/national/we-cant-forget-and-well-never-forgive-skaf-rape-victims-ten-years-on/story-e6frfkvr-1225887337321

Their victims were lured from trains, shopping centres and public places. The attacks were calculated and well planned and involved up to 14 males, aged 13 to 18 years, all of Lebanese origin. As well as being raped, Sally was subjected to racist taunts, she was called an "Aussie pig", told she was going to get it "Leb style" and asked if "Leb c*** tasted better than Aussie c***".

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/11/29/1070081589026.html

It makes them uncomfortable to acknowledge the fact that young Muslim men have been roaming around Sydney gang raping non-Muslim women, or as the rapists like to say, "Aussie pigs" and "sluts" who ask for it. Despite the evidence, they refuse to acknowledge it, and that this same pattern has been occurring in other Western countries, notably France.

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You original statement was that Europe would be ruled by Sharia law. That is very different from Sharia law being practiced. It certainly doesnt mean it takes over from UK domestic law.




It’s inevitable on current trajectory of demographic shift. The fact that you’re nonchalant about Shari’a law already active in the UK is all part of acquiescing to this cultural take over. Austria and Germany are in the same boat. However, the rise of the Right is the panacea and can reverse this Leftist treachery. Naturally the first enemy to destroy on the streets is the Left and then the Islamists.


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What Keith Vaz says in your daily mail link is correct. It absolutely needs to be looked at.




Wouldn’t need to be if Muslims on mass were not colonising the UK at a rate of knots, by ill thought out policy. I was appalled from how London looked like last year to what it looked like when I was there in 1999. Now it’s an absolute subcontinent and North African mess of spot the Brit in a city where the people don’t even look English. Shit, I even had these Japanese tourists ask me street directions because I’m Anglo Saxon and I actually looked English rather than the imported mob. I gave them directions off a map, but hell I’ve mused about the Orwellian lie of ‘diversity is strength’. Enoch Powel was right and prophesied this disaster.

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My point still stands that I bet you don't really understand what Sharia law is at all. You think it means you get your head cut off for taking drugs?




Saudia Arabia beheads drug crimes. They practice Shari’a Law. Did you look at the pics of mine – they’d cut my head off if nicked for doing that. Other Muslim nations have adopted less primitive methods, such as hanging and firing squads for people like me. I guess you’re an atheist (I am) and that alone can get you executed under the Shari’a.

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Muslim_Statistics_-_Shariah

In 2012 there were 7 known countries in the world where the state could execute you for being atheist. Every single one was officially Islamic.

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The Sharia guy in the video on that article is absolutely a dick. Is that unique to Islam? Seen orthodox judaism? Orthodox christianity? Youre just making the case that people go way too far with religion and chat shit.




But we’re not having the terrorist and mass-rape drama with Orthodox Judaism or Christianity, where as we are with Muslims who follow their Islam literally. Btw, I note in your memo neither Judaism or Christianity was capitalised where as Islam was, in what you posted - ergo subliminal dhimmism. But really, your continued obfuscation of the facts and apologising for what is unacceptable is typical of the Left.



Quote:

BTW the daily mail is infamous for its sensationalist stories. Most of their stories manage to blame immigrants or muslims some way or another. Its also a paper that historically loved Hitler too.




Yet your beloved New Statesman, Morning Star, Tribune, Guardianista, BBC and John Pilger are beacons of the truth, eh. As for the second sentence: remember Godwin’s law, hey.

What is sadly true is the degeneracy of Lib’tardism is out to sink our culture which opens it up to Islam. This YouTube sums up Leftist degeneracy.



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Convert Metric and Imperial.

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Offlineqman
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Starter]
    #22741916 - 01/05/16 09:40 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

:kaneclap:

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OfflineTipote
petty crook and transvestite
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Registered: 10/28/11
Posts: 5,410
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: WAN] * 1
    #22743421 - 01/06/16 10:36 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

WAN said:
Quote:

Tipote said:
because we arent just talking about foreigners. we are talking about those becoming citizens who then in turn contribute to their societies. or they are stateless people or refugees who should be helped to integrate.





Well I don't doubt you personally really want to help these immigrants but I think for the world's governments to do that, it just doesn't seem right.  Governments' job is to take care of its citizenry, first and foremost.  It is NOT the job of governments to take in stateless people or refugees. 





i think some people on this forum have a serious problem differentiating between refugee and immigrant.

Countries set their own immigration policies and can choose or reject immigrants at will. That is fine

Refugees are protected under the 1951 Refugee Convention, there is an obligation both legal and moral to help them.

Some people are suggested already that the influx of refugees has actually helped the economies of those that have taken them due to increased demand. Though im sure qman will start frothing at the mouth saying they are filthy parasites.

There are Syrian refugees in the UK at the moment that have gone up to the North of England (where the entire region has been flooded 3 times in the last few weeks) and have helped people there. Not only Syrians but many Muslim groups have. Meanwhile the Islamophobic "Britain first" group have done FUCK ALL.


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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Tipote]
    #22743531 - 01/06/16 10:58 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Tipote said:
Quote:

WAN said:
Quote:

Tipote said:
because we arent just talking about foreigners. we are talking about those becoming citizens who then in turn contribute to their societies. or they are stateless people or refugees who should be helped to integrate.





Well I don't doubt you personally really want to help these immigrants but I think for the world's governments to do that, it just doesn't seem right.  Governments' job is to take care of its citizenry, first and foremost.  It is NOT the job of governments to take in stateless people or refugees. 





i think some people on this forum have a serious problem differentiating between refugee and immigrant.

Countries set their own immigration policies and can choose or reject immigrants at will. That is fine

Refugees are protected under the 1951 Refugee Convention, there is an obligation both legal and moral to help them.

Some people are suggested already that the influx of refugees has actually helped the economies of those that have taken them due to increased demand. Though im sure qman will start frothing at the mouth saying they are filthy parasites.

There are Syrian refugees in the UK at the moment that have gone up to the North of England (where the entire region has been flooded 3 times in the last few weeks) and have helped people there. Not only Syrians but many Muslim groups have. Meanwhile the Islamophobic "Britain first" group have done FUCK ALL.




"helped the economies of those that have taken them due to increased demand"

Let me give you a little economics lesson here, poor people that have nothing do NOT create economic prosperity when you give them free stuff. It's called being a financial burden for the natives.

If your line of reasoning was correct, we could fix the slow growth of the EU, US, and Japan just by bringing a bunch of Africans and giving them free stuff when they get here, do you see the obvious flaw in your reasoning?

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OfflineTipote
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Starter] * 1
    #22743738 - 01/06/16 11:58 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Starter said:

I collectively called Western women our women. They work, pay taxes and live in the West where they deserve policies that ensure their freedom, security and prosperity.




You know muslim women work, pay taxes and live in the West. Or did you mean white women?

Quote:

The credentials of Pamela Geller aside, the word "Islamophobia" has been hatched to shut down any and all critism of Islam. The ultimate aim is to outlaw any criticism of Islam.




Shut down criticism of Islam? Are you fucking joking? Wow.. There is mostly criticism of Islam as a whole. No Muslim has a problem with anyone criticising Daesh and their ideology which a minority of Muslims do support. Many Muslims are criticising this themselves. There is a difference between criticising and racism.

Islamophobia is a thing. It is cultural racism.

Muslims Aren't A Race, So I Can't Be Racist, Right? Wrong.

Quote:

According to Hall, there is a new type of racism -- "cultural racism," which is my focus here. Racism is no longer about race (skin color) but culture. People are Othered and discriminated against not (simply) because of the color of their skin (or other phenotypes) but because of their beliefs and practices associated with some "imagined culture."

Cultural racism, therefore, happens when certain people perceive their beliefs and customs as being culturally superior to the beliefs and customs of other groups of people. Cultural racism, in-turn, reproduces the idea of "the hierarchy of cultures," meaning, in the context of current affairs, that "our" Western culture is superior to "their" Islamic culture. This way of thinking is problematic because it essentializes diverse classifications like "Westerners" and "Muslims." It creates a binary of "Western = civilized" and "Islamic = uncivilized."

Bobby Sayyid, another favorite thinker of mine, argues that Islamophobia is undoubtedly a form of racism. He regards it as a type of racism that "takes up the white man's burden for the new American century. It is a humanitarian intervention, not a mission civilisatrice; [Islamophobia] only wants to spread democracy not to expropriate resources; it does not want to exterminate ignoble savages, only to domesticate unruly Muslims." In this context, the U.S. invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan can be treated as wars driven by cultural racism. Bush wanted to spread "democracy" and "liberate" Muslims, particularly women, among other things. Muslims, he theorized, were incapable of developing these "culturally superior" ways of life on their own, so they must be molded and trained to be more like "us," the civilized people. If racism represents systemic oppression based upon preconceived notions (or stereotypes) of particular social groups, then the U.S. government is most definitely guilty of racism. To be specific, cultural racism.




Quote:

Starter said:He’s Muslim and has the typical misogynist attitude of their ilk.




Know many Muslims do you? Where is this Muslim from then? because he isnt speaking Arabic. Your phrases really tie in with the above link. "Their ilk" LOL

Absolutely there is misogyny in Islamic countries, there is misogyny in all religions and all countries.

Quote:

Totally serious, and absolutely proud of Australia having taken the land from the stone age who did nothing with it for 40,000 years, and then made it into a very enviable and livable first world in just 200 years. Not bad for a former colony when mother England who has sadly lost her imperialist way doesn’t even make the list.




yeh, dont worry, i can see youre serious. that is what is worrying. I bet you know fuck all about what the Aboriginals did for 40,000 years. So they didn't build a modern European society, OH how backward!

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Remember, the White Australia Policy only ended in 1973 and by that point the nation was fully developed, so it was all up a 100% White achievement! - can’t get better than that.




You know what else Australia did? They had eugenic policies to breed the aboriginal out of aboriginal. They came breeding them with white people until they were white. Are you proud of that?
You know that Australia has camps abroad where sexual abuse and violence against those detained is RIFE. Are you proud of that?

Quote:

Though a close second *wink* was the British Empire, which ruled over more land and sea than any Empire in history. No doubt you’re deeply ashamed of that, being a Leftist. So to atone for such sins you want the third world to pour in like some horror out of the book ‘Camp of the Saints’




you really babble alot of crap you know. I dont label you as a fucking bogan dickhead so don't label me as a Leftist just because I dont think Muslims are all the same. No, i'm not proud of the empire. Why would I be? It was founded on the blood of innocents. You really have some weird assumptions.

Quote:

There are plenty of sources on Bilal Skaf and his Muslim Lebanese gang rape gang, and that their victims were White Australian women targeted because they were White and not Muslim




Why can't you provide a source that shows they were targetted specifically because they were not muslim.

being called an Aussie pig is not a racist term. Talking about "Lebanese cock" is probably the closest thing to supporting the racial element but its pretty weak. I mean the only way you wouldnt see it as a racist attack is if they specifically hunted out Muslim or Lebanese women in Australia. They are a minority.

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It’s inevitable on current trajectory of demographic shift. The fact that you’re nonchalant about Shari’a law already active in the UK is all part of acquiescing to this cultural take over. Austria and Germany are in the same boat. However, the rise of the Right is the panacea and can reverse this Leftist treachery.




I'm still not seeing your evidence of the Sharia take over. Having Sharia law being used is NOT the same as it taking over from national law. You make an epic jump from existence to a whole fucking take over.

Leftist treachery? Man wtf are you talking about?

Quote:

the first enemy to destroy on the streets is the Left and then the Islamists




Come to the UK and say that kind of thing and you will get your face fucking destroyed. The Left is not talking about destroying your fucking retarded ignorant bogan sect, its you that are advocating violence. Youre just brimming with hate!! You and Daesh are made for eachother :heart::heart::heart:

Quote:

Wouldn’t need to be if Muslims on mass were not colonising the UK at a rate of knots, by ill thought out policy. I was appalled from how London looked like last year to what it looked like when I was there in 1999. Now it’s an absolute subcontinent and North African mess of spot the Brit in a city where the people don’t even look English. Shit, I even had these Japanese tourists ask me street directions because I’m Anglo Saxon and I actually looked English rather than the imported mob. I gave them directions off a map, but hell I’ve mused about the Orwellian lie of ‘diversity is strength’. Enoch Powel was right and prophesied this disaster.




Jesus Christ man, you are a serious racist. I'm sorry London was more brown and black than you remember :'(. Diversity is strength is absolutely right, it has nothing to do with Orwell. Enoch Powel was a piece of shit. What he said about having rivers of blood because of black people coming to england did not happen!
this is the Orwellian quote that really applies here:

Quote:

War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.




Muslims are NOT colonising the UK. Do you have evidence of your giant leap of faith into nonsensical conclusions?

Quote:

Saudia Arabia beheads drug crimes. They practice Shari’a Law. Did you look at the pics of mine – they’d cut my head off if nicked for doing that. Other Muslim nations have adopted less primitive methods, such as hanging and firing squads for people like me. I guess you’re an atheist (I am) and that alone can get you executed under the Shari’a.




You guessed wrongly.

Saudi Arabia is not Islam. It is the home of Salifyya sect of Islam which is the closest to Daesh. I don't support the Saudi monarchy and that brand of Islam. Sharia law is applied in many different ways. In your mind its all about death for drugs - that is not unique to islamic countries. Sharia law, as i've said before, also gives women the right to divorce. Yes the Saudis have now said athiesm is criminal, thats obviously not right.  there are thousands of athiests working in Saudi Arabia and thats not going to change. They just are using that as an extra political tool. Yes there are differences in interpretation of Sharia but it seems like youre not one to be interested in detail.

see here

BTW wikiislam is a deeply biased website.

Quote:

neither Judaism or Christianity was capitalised where as Islam was




what?

You don't have war in most Judeo-Christian countries, whereas many Muslim countries in the Middle east are in a state of war, under occupation or under large tensions - fuelled by the former.

Btw your meme about the tolerant leftie is incorrect. Being a racist, xenophobe, islamophobe, violence-loving, worthless shithead is what makes you one, not disagreeing with lefties! To you its black or white, left or right, what a oversimplistic view of the world. It explains alot.

Quote:

Yet your beloved New Statesman, Morning Star, Tribune, Guardianista, BBC and John Pilger are beacons of the truth, eh. As for the second sentence: remember Godwin’s law, hey.

What is sadly true is the degeneracy of Lib’tardism is out to sink our culture which opens it up to Islam. This YouTube sums up Leftist degeneracy.




I dont read the others but the Guardian is a credible paper, the BBC - while it does have funding issues atm- is still a world class media organisation, and john pilger is a superb journalist. Show me how he is not telling the truth.

Also about Godwin's law... It doesnt mean that Hitler shouldnt be mentioned anymore - especially where it is a directly relevant point. The Daily Mail openly supported fascist nazi germany. Some things change, some things don't.

well i can give you one thing - that video certainly shows degeneracy. It explains alot if this is the kind of thing you are watching on youtube..


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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Tipote]
    #22743763 - 01/06/16 12:03 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Tipote said:

Islamophobia is a thing. It is cultural racism.




Maybe, but not all disdain for Muslims is racism.  There is also a perfectly rational reason to judge all Muslims negatively.  After all, they believe in fairytales.  Personally, I have much less respect for someone when I find out that they are Christian, Muslim, Hindu, etc.  Is that racist?  Or is it just looking at the evidence and forming an opinion based on that evidence?


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #22743832 - 01/06/16 12:23 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Tipote said:

Islamophobia is a thing. It is cultural racism.




Maybe, but not all disdain for Muslims is racism.  There is also a perfectly rational reason to judge all Muslims negatively.  After all, they believe in fairytales.  Personally, I have much less respect for someone when I find out that they are Christian, Muslim, Hindu, etc.  Is that racist?  Or is it just looking at the evidence and forming an opinion based on that evidence?




A perfectly logical position. However, I think most "Islamaphobes" simply believe in a different fairytale.


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OfflineTipote
petty crook and transvestite
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman] * 1
    #22743842 - 01/06/16 12:24 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
"helped the economies of those that have taken them due to increased demand"

Let me give you a little economics lesson here, poor people that have nothing do NOT create economic prosperity when you give them free stuff. It's called being a financial burden for the natives.

If your line of reasoning was correct, we could fix the slow growth of the EU, US, and Japan just by bringing a bunch of Africans and giving them free stuff when they get here, do you see the obvious flaw in your reasoning?




do you not see the prejudice in your reasoning? Your reasoning stems your racist assumption that these "primitive" people are just going to come and demand free things. Yes, obviously, poor people don't have money to spend but you seem to assume that they will always be in a state of poverty and therefore dependence. Will you back it up with evidence?

Would you have been against the Kindertransport of 10,000 children to the UK during the war? because of what you assume as permanent dependency? Or is it just Muslims who are permanently dependent? you seem to see it as just jobs being taken but that necessarily involves contribution to the state when people are working and it means that people can also start their own businesses and provide more jobs.

Quote:

In Betts’ 2014 study, titled Refugee Economies: Rethinking Popular Assumptions, it was found that the presence of refugees boosts a local economy significantly as a result of additional purchasing power, the creation of employment and the provision of human capital. “Refugees around the world engage with markets. Even in the most restricted circumstances of closed refugee camps and without the right to work, economic activity can be observed. Refugees engage in consumption, production, exchange, entrepreneurship and the development of capital markets. Much of our research suggests that whether refugees are a benefit or a burden depends not just on who the refugees are, but also on the policies of the host states. When they are given the right to work, access to capital, and educational opportunities, they are likely to have the greatest impact”, Betts explained.




Quote:

The expected influx is also likely to “translate into additional employment, once refugees with a sufficient degree of skills enter the labour market and participate in economic activity.

The Commission however warned that while overall wage effects could be positive from the influx, some lower paid workers could lose out in the short term due to competition.

The findings by the Commission concur with an earlier study by Oxford Economics that found a positive effect on growth was likely in Germany – which is set to take around a million refugees this year.




sources here and here

Im no economic expert so maybe you can tell me how this is all wrong?


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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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OfflineTipote
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22743883 - 01/06/16 12:33 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Tipote said:

Islamophobia is a thing. It is cultural racism.




Maybe, but not all disdain for Muslims is racism.  There is also a perfectly rational reason to judge all Muslims negatively.  After all, they believe in fairytales.  Personally, I have much less respect for someone when I find out that they are Christian, Muslim, Hindu, etc.  Is that racist?  Or is it just looking at the evidence and forming an opinion based on that evidence?




A perfectly logical position. However, I think most "Islamaphobes" simply believe in a different fairytale.




absolutely i see your point Enlil. In part I agree but I think Ecstatic is right. Being non-religious doesn't insulate you from self-delusion.

If you have less respect for someone if they follow a religion, that just says you dont like religion.

It is prejudice when Islam is blasted for having corrosive aspects that are part of all other religions too. And when superiority/inferiority dynamics come into play. Islam is particularly targeted and not just in its religious aspects, its entire culture in given an oversimplified monolithic and predominately negative image.


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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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Offlineqman
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Tipote]
    #22744333 - 01/06/16 02:10 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Tipote said:
Quote:

qman said:
"helped the economies of those that have taken them due to increased demand"

Let me give you a little economics lesson here, poor people that have nothing do NOT create economic prosperity when you give them free stuff. It's called being a financial burden for the natives.

If your line of reasoning was correct, we could fix the slow growth of the EU, US, and Japan just by bringing a bunch of Africans and giving them free stuff when they get here, do you see the obvious flaw in your reasoning?




do you not see the prejudice in your reasoning? Your reasoning stems your racist assumption that these "primitive" people are just going to come and demand free things. Yes, obviously, poor people don't have money to spend but you seem to assume that they will always be in a state of poverty and therefore dependence. Will you back it up with evidence?

Would you have been against the Kindertransport of 10,000 children to the UK during the war? because of what you assume as permanent dependency? Or is it just Muslims who are permanently dependent? you seem to see it as just jobs being taken but that necessarily involves contribution to the state when people are working and it means that people can also start their own businesses and provide more jobs.

Quote:

In Betts’ 2014 study, titled Refugee Economies: Rethinking Popular Assumptions, it was found that the presence of refugees boosts a local economy significantly as a result of additional purchasing power, the creation of employment and the provision of human capital. “Refugees around the world engage with markets. Even in the most restricted circumstances of closed refugee camps and without the right to work, economic activity can be observed. Refugees engage in consumption, production, exchange, entrepreneurship and the development of capital markets. Much of our research suggests that whether refugees are a benefit or a burden depends not just on who the refugees are, but also on the policies of the host states. When they are given the right to work, access to capital, and educational opportunities, they are likely to have the greatest impact”, Betts explained.




Quote:

The expected influx is also likely to “translate into additional employment, once refugees with a sufficient degree of skills enter the labour market and participate in economic activity.

The Commission however warned that while overall wage effects could be positive from the influx, some lower paid workers could lose out in the short term due to competition.

The findings by the Commission concur with an earlier study by Oxford Economics that found a positive effect on growth was likely in Germany – which is set to take around a million refugees this year.




sources here and here

Im no economic expert so maybe you can tell me how this is all wrong?




I don't think it's a very complicated economic situation, if there is a shortage of unskilled or skilled labor in a developed nation, the immigrant or refugee could fill the void and make a positive economic contribution to the domestic economy, this isn't about race or Muslims, it's basic economics. The EU has the complete opposite issue, no many workers relative to labor demand.

But who really benefits when 20 million illegals enter the US labor market when there's already a SURPLUS of labor?  It drives wages lower for everyone, that only benefits the elite and their profit margins.

Look at it this way, when a illegal or refugee enters the country and commits a crime and enters the criminal justice system, does that increase economic activity and GDP?  Yes it does, but it's not positive economic growth.  When an illegal or refugee goes to the ER and racks up a $30k medical bill, that also increases GDP, but again it's not real economic prosperity.

What is the economic reality for illegals and their children in the US?  Almost 70% are on some sort of government assistance, that's NOT contribution, it's being a social service leech.

When my great grandparents came to the US, they actually positively contributed to the domestic economy, they didn't leech off of anyone, can you see the difference?

Those studies are complete garbage, it's based on the stupid theory that by 2060 Germany MIGHT not have enough workers. :facepalm: Fucking ridiculous rationalization for bringing in a bunch of unskilled workers.

Of course there's going to be efforts to justify this policy that breaks the rules of basic commonsense on the ground, one way to do it is with some wacko economic "study".

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InvisibleBubbles85

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Tipote]
    #22744555 - 01/06/16 03:02 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Tipote said:
Quote:

Starter said:
Quote:

Remember, the White Australia Policy only ended in 1973 and by that point the nation was fully developed, so it was all up a 100% White achievement! - can’t get better than that.




You know what else Australia did? They had eugenic policies to breed the aboriginal out of aboriginal. They came breeding them with white people until they were white. Are you proud of that?





It's funny how easily you seem to recognise deliberate government policy, of a majority white nation, to deliberately inflict conditions of life calculated to bring about the physical destruction of a minority group.

Yet when specific government policies are in place in Europe, that will ultimately lead to the native European being bread out of existence in a similar fashion, through interracial interbreeding and mass third world immigration, it's equality, diversity and an inevitable part of globalization :lol:

Edited by Bubbles85 (01/06/16 03:03 PM)

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InvisibleBoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Starter] * 2
    #22744856 - 01/06/16 04:25 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Starter said:


He’s Muslim and has the typical misogynist attitude of their ilk.






If all a misogynist attitude is typical of muslims, why is it that several muslim countries have elected female heads of state?


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #22745144 - 01/06/16 05:53 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

:thatsaten:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlineqman
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #22745185 - 01/06/16 06:05 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
Quote:

Starter said:


He’s Muslim and has the typical misogynist attitude of their ilk.






If all a misogynist attitude is typical of muslims, why is it that several muslim countries have elected female heads of state?




"Arab women today enjoy the smallest number of parliamentary seats around the world...Some Arab countries have also adapted QUOTAS that guarantee the representation of women"

Why introduce quotas?  Yeah, I think we know the rational.:lol:

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OfflineTipote
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bubbles85]
    #22745229 - 01/06/16 06:17 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bubbles85 said:
It's funny how easily you seem to recognise deliberate government policy, of a majority white nation, to deliberately inflict conditions of life calculated to bring about the physical destruction of a minority group.

Yet when specific government policies are in place in Europe, that will ultimately lead to the native European being bread out of existence in a similar fashion, through interracial interbreeding and mass third world immigration, it's equality, diversity and an inevitable part of globalization :lol:




:facepalm:

If a white person falls in love with muslim person (there ARE white muslims btw), or someone you see as an undesirable, and starts a family. whats wrong with that? Or do you see it as "dirtying the pure blood" LOL

The difference was that these aboriginals in Aus were forced on a huge scale to conform 100% to European standards on a genetic as well as every other basis.

Is that happening in Europe? NOPE

What is happened in Aus is common to what happened in the USA, and what happened(s) in Israel - racist settler-colonial states. They even called the Aus genocides the "gentle genocide".

Aboriginal children were STOLEN from their mothers and the people were killed in a large number of massacres over the course of over 200 years. The Eugenics movement aimed to forcibly breed them out of existance.

Is that happening in Europe? NOPE

Yes globalisation means that people will mix more. Are you saying we should keep all the "races" separate and pure blooded?? Is that the problem?

NOT Genocide!


--------------------
War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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OfflineTipote
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #22745355 - 01/06/16 06:49 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
I don't think it's a very complicated economic situation, if there is a shortage of unskilled or skilled labor in a developed nation, the immigrant or refugee could fill the void and make a positive economic contribution to the domestic economy, this isn't about race or Muslims, it's basic economics. The EU has the complete opposite issue, no many workers relative to labor demand.




ahh yeh, mate, its purely about the economics

:douchewink:

You are not supporting this argument.

Quote:

But who really benefits when 20 million illegals enter the US labor market when there's already a SURPLUS of labor?  It drives wages lower for everyone, that only benefits the elite and their profit margins.




its about the long term. in the short term it would probably drive wages lower at first. When immigrants / refugees live, work and are educated in their host country, they will progress up the chain to more skilled jobs. They will contribute to the state, create demand and jobs for the long term.
BTW we arent talking about illegals in the US.

Quote:

Look at it this way, when a illegal or refugee enters the country and commits a crime and enters the criminal justice system, does that increase economic activity and GDP?  Yes it does, but it's not positive economic growth.




pretty prejudiced example right there. it will happen to some, sure. Not the majority.

Quote:

When an illegal or refugee goes to the ER and racks up a $30k medical bill, that also increases GDP, but again it's not real economic prosperity.




Yes we there will be some illegals but we are mainly talking about refugees and immigrants here. If they are here illegally they will be deported.
Also BTW the European system is a little different from the US healthcare system. Stuff that would cost $30k would be a fraction of that.

There will be give and take, sure. Its long term thinking. They need support, yes, but it will come back in tax revenue.

Also when it comes to the refugees, its not aalll about economics - its about a moral and legal obligation to help refugees.  Our financial affairs in Europe are pretty shit but thats only because we have followed the US lead in crippling income inequality that ultimately damage the population certainly a lot more than the refugees do.

Quote:

What is the economic reality for illegals and their children in the US?  Almost 70% are on some sort of government assistance, that's NOT contribution, it's being a social service leech.




again, we are not talking about illegals in the US. An answer to that would probably be the poverty trap that is the American SS system. If you give people breadcrumbs then they will be desperate and dependent, if you give people a basic reasonable minimum - with their education and healthcare sorted - they can proper and contribute. Or do you thinks its something genetic??? Why not at least try it?

Quote:


When my great grandparents came to the US, they actually positively contributed to the domestic economy, they didn't leech off of anyone, can you see the difference?




So you've said, your medal is in the post.

Quote:

Those studies are complete garbage, it's based on the stupid theory that by 2060 Germany MIGHT not have enough workers. :facepalm: Fucking ridiculous rationalization for bringing in a bunch of unskilled workers.





I've shown you multiple sources saying this and you still don't like it, but then you don't disprove what i'm saying with evidence.


--------------------
War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Tipote]
    #22745391 - 01/06/16 06:58 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Tipote said:

If you have less respect for someone if they follow a religion, that just says you dont like religion.




Not really.  It says I don't respect irrationality, insanity, or delusion.  Like/dislike have nothing to do with it.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

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OfflineTipote
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Enlil]
    #22745405 - 01/06/16 07:02 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Tipote said:
If you have less respect for someone if they follow a religion, then it means you dont respect religion/religious people.





better?

its not racism.


--------------------
War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Registered: 03/10/11
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman] * 1
    #22745534 - 01/06/16 07:30 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
Quote:

Starter said:


He’s Muslim and has the typical misogynist attitude of their ilk.






If all a misogynist attitude is typical of muslims, why is it that several muslim countries have elected female heads of state?




"Arab women today enjoy the smallest number of parliamentary seats around the world...Some Arab countries have also adapted QUOTAS that guarantee the representation of women"

Why introduce quotas?  Yeah, I think we know the rational.:lol:




So, what's your point? Not all Arabs are Muslim and not all Muslims are Arab.

I'll ask again, if misogyny is typical of Muslims, then why is it that "the majority of all Muslims in the world live in countries that have, at some time, elected women as their leaders"?


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

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