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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman] * 1
    #22633675 - 12/09/15 12:43 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

re poor people, we already have too many poor natives with little hope in the future




EXACTLY! BRINGING IN MORE POOR, REGARDLESS IF THEYRE REFUGEE OR NOT IS NOT A WINNING STRATEGY, THERES NOTHING WRONG WITH TAKING CARE OF OUR OWN FIRST AND UNTIL THEN, ALL IMMIGRATION SHOULD BE HALTED


***REPORTED MYSELF FOR BEING MEAN AND CRUEL


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OfflineGoldenEye
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22633710 - 12/09/15 12:54 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

GoldenEye said:
I read an interesting book about poverty and basic income recently. I hope it gets translated to English so qman could read it. Poverty is not a choice and has nothing to do with lazyness. At all. Living in conditions of scarcity actually causes our brains to work differently.

Poor people are really good at making ends meet on the short term. They have to be. Their short term solutions are innovative and effective. They train this as they have to live from bill to bill and from paycheck to paycheck.

By living this way, their long term planning parts of their brain get downregulated. It becomes increasingly hard to make long term plans and strategize. To get out of their situation in other words. Add a welfare system to that which is completely belittling and not at all aimed at resolving the situation.

It's not a choice.

Here's a TEDtalk by the author Rutger Bregman:



The book is called "Gratis geld voor iedereen" ("Free money for everyone")




No one's saying poor people don't struggle in life, and some do have a very good work ethic, but the fact of the matter is, the US the EU do NOT need more poor people!!

You do realize both economies have a serious structural problem which makes employment very difficult and wages unlivable?  We can't even manage the poor we have in the US and people think more poor unskilled people is a good policy, that's stupid.

Our economies can't support more poor people, we already have too many poor natives with little hope in the future.




Except the free money for everyone model actually makes money. It seems expensive to give out a basic income to everyone, but it turns out it saves you more than it costs. On many fronts as well: justice, police, healthcare, mental health, just to name a few.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: GoldenEye] * 1
    #22633798 - 12/09/15 01:22 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

"free money for everyone model actually makes money"

Well that's wonderful, sounds like you solved world poverty.

"it turns out it saves you more than it costs"

So if the US allowed 50 millions poor Africans into the US, we should expect instant prosperity.

I sorry that someone taught you such insane economic theory, please ask for your money back because it's not based on reality.


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OfflineGoldenEye
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #22633874 - 12/09/15 01:51 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Not instant of course. You need a basic income law.

First people invest the basic income in themselves. Schooling, housing, hygiene, nutrition. They will need less healthcare. They are less reliant on wage labour to support themselves and can invest more time in raising their children. Crime rates drop. The IQ's of their children rise as they are raised better. Mental health issues become almost non existent. People can focus their energy on innovation as opposed to working dead end jobs. Administration jobs in the welfare system become futile. Equal opportunities means less conflict.

There really are huge savings in many places. Some expected, some completely unforseen.

It saves a ton, as has been shown by a 2009 pilot study in London where thirteen homeless people received 3000 pounds in cash. A year later seven of them had a roof over their head. The savings added up to a sevenfold total of the investments. Including the loan of the researchers, data analysis and medical/mental support and counciling staff.

Poverty is not a lack of character. It is a lack of money. Solving it is no harder than handing out money.


Edited by GoldenEye (12/09/15 02:13 PM)


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OfflineTipote
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: GoldenEye]
    #22633991 - 12/09/15 02:32 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
No one's saying poor people don't struggle in life, and some do have a very good work ethic, but the fact of the matter is, the US the EU do NOT need more poor people!!




you actually said that they were commit crimes and not getting jobs because of their culture.

Quote:

You do realize both economies have a serious structural problem which makes employment very difficult and wages unlivable?  We can't even manage the poor we have in the US and people think more poor unskilled people is a good policy, that's stupid.

Our economies can't support more poor people, we already have too many poor natives with little hope in the future.




yes i do understand these economies have a serious structural problem. so shall we throw anger at poor people or focus on tackling the system itself that promotes these massive inequalities? Don't you believe that thing many americans believe - the American Dream? Where people can come here with nothing and work their way up. Justice and liberty for all and all that jazz? So many Americans today have stories of how their families came to the US with nothing but the clothes on their back a hundred or more years ago. There are opportunities in the US, but there are also poverty traps and absolutely ridiculous inequalities.

Quote:

So if the US allowed 50 millions poor Africans into the US, we should expect instant prosperity.






Quote:

GoldenEye said:
Not instant of course. You need a basic income law.

First people invest the basic income in themselves. Schooling, housing, hygiene, nutrition. They will need less healthcare. They are less reliant on wage labour to support themselves and can invest more time in raising their children. Crime rates drop. The IQ's of their children rise as they are raised better. Mental health issues become almost non existent. People can focus their energy on innovation as opposed to working dead end jobs. Administration jobs in the welfare system become futile. Equal opportunities means less conflict.

There really are huge savings in many places. Some expected, some completely unforseen.

It saves a ton, as has been shown by a 2009 pilot study in London where thirteen homeless people received 3000 pounds in cash. A year later seven of them had a roof over their head. The savings added up to a sevenfold total of the investments. Including the loan of the researchers, data analysis and medical/mental support and counciling staff.

Poverty is not a lack of character. It is a lack of money. Solving it is no harder than handing out money.




I agree with goldeneye. the pilot studies are going on all over Europe right now.

Prevention is absolutely a way to cut costs. Thats part of the reason why the US spends more on healthcare than any rich country. The NHS in the UK means you can tackle a problem before it gets so bad that its even more expensive to deal with for you or the state. Makes sense.
I've heard such horror stories in the US of people having to just suffer for years while they wait for coverage.

It has already been shown in another thread, tell me if you need the source, that providing money to the poor actually promotes economic prosperity for the whole of society. On the other hand, the trickle down effect from money at the very top is a myth and poverty actually restricts development. Poverty - crime - poor educational attainment - surely these things are all linked and are a dead weight for societies to deal with?


Quote:

GoldenEye said:


Poverty is not a lack of character. It is a lack of money






Nice video Goldeneye :thumbup:
points well made.


--------------------
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Offlineqman
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: GoldenEye] * 2
    #22634037 - 12/09/15 02:42 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

GoldenEye said:
Not instant of course. You need a basic income law.

First people invest the basic income in themselves. Schooling, housing, hygiene, nutrition. They will need less healthcare. They are less reliant on wage labour to support themselves and can invest more time in raising their children. Crime rates drop. The IQ's of their children rise as they are raised better. Mental health issues become almost non existent. People can focus their energy on innovation as opposed to working dead end jobs. Administration jobs in the welfare system become futile. Equal opportunities means less conflict.

There really are huge savings in many places. Some expected, some completely unforseen.

It saves a ton, as has been shown by a 2009 pilot study in London where thirteen homeless people received 3000 pounds in cash. A year later seven of them had a roof over their head. The savings added up to a sevenfold total of the investments. Including the loan of the researchers, data analysis and medical/mental support and counciling staff.

Poverty is not a lack of character. It is a lack of money. Solving it is no harder than handing out money.




Poverty...Solving it is no harder than handing out money"

Yet, welfare, food stamps, disability, public housing, public education, and free health care does NOT create economic prosperity, all it does it keep poor people alive to remain poor.

Do you understand what creates economic prosperity?  It's creating jobs for people to be PRODUCTIVE, sometimes there's not enough jobs available no matter how skilled and educated the workforce, it's 10 times harder for low skilled labor. 

Why do you think many highly educated in developed economies are under or unemployed in developed economies (US, EU, Japan, ect.) today?  Globalization and productivity!! 

It truly sounds like you have the best of intentions and I wish the world operated in that fashion, but you don't understand the current state of economic conditions that are taking place, most don't because it's become very complex in nature.

There was a period of time in the US and Europe when there was a shortage of labor relative to supply, that allowed my Polish relatives the opportunity to come to the US and make very good lives for themselves.  There were no safety nets, it was go to work or don't eat, and guess what?  You didn't sit around and whine about the existing culture. They threw away their own language to assimilate into American culture, it's called sacrifice.  They also didn't have some radically different religion, it was the same as the natives, that's a huge difference.


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OfflineGoldenEye
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman] * 1
    #22634115 - 12/09/15 03:02 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

You do realise that due to machinisation there will never again be more jobs than labor don't you? Regardless of immigration policies. Should we deport or kill people until the ammount of jobs matches the ammount of labor?

No. It is time to get rid of the idea that you have to work for money. There simply isn't enough work.

O, and economy is not at all complex. It is just a lot of poohah to hide how ridiculous a privately owned fractitional reserve banking system actually is.

If we're reforming we should also install a complete fiat currency and base the ammount that is in circulation on the population total.

No more bubbles, recessions or inflation. No more excuses for the federal reserve bank to pump out more debt.

America has been remarkably close to both of those solutions.

The greenbacks in the civil war, and Nixon's FAP (Family Assistance Plan). Nixon's FAP was a mild basic income variant which passed the house of representatives but didn't get through the senate. Appearently because it was considered too mild...

It's time to bring those ideas back.

And while we're at it... Let's not tax labor. Let's tax resource use so we can finally have an incentive to live more sustainable.


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Tipote]
    #22634330 - 12/09/15 04:06 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Tipote said:
Quote:

qman said:
No one's saying poor people don't struggle in life, and some do have a very good work ethic, but the fact of the matter is, the US the EU do NOT need more poor people!!




you actually said that they were commit crimes and not getting jobs because of their culture.

Quote:

You do realize both economies have a serious structural problem which makes employment very difficult and wages unlivable?  We can't even manage the poor we have in the US and people think more poor unskilled people is a good policy, that's stupid.

Our economies can't support more poor people, we already have too many poor natives with little hope in the future.




yes i do understand these economies have a serious structural problem. so shall we throw anger at poor people or focus on tackling the system itself that promotes these massive inequalities? Don't you believe that thing many americans believe - the American Dream? Where people can come here with nothing and work their way up. Justice and liberty for all and all that jazz? So many Americans today have stories of how their families came to the US with nothing but the clothes on their back a hundred or more years ago. There are opportunities in the US, but there are also poverty traps and absolutely ridiculous inequalities.

Quote:

So if the US allowed 50 millions poor Africans into the US, we should expect instant prosperity.






Quote:

GoldenEye said:
Not instant of course. You need a basic income law.

First people invest the basic income in themselves. Schooling, housing, hygiene, nutrition. They will need less healthcare. They are less reliant on wage labour to support themselves and can invest more time in raising their children. Crime rates drop. The IQ's of their children rise as they are raised better. Mental health issues become almost non existent. People can focus their energy on innovation as opposed to working dead end jobs. Administration jobs in the welfare system become futile. Equal opportunities means less conflict.

There really are huge savings in many places. Some expected, some completely unforseen.

It saves a ton, as has been shown by a 2009 pilot study in London where thirteen homeless people received 3000 pounds in cash. A year later seven of them had a roof over their head. The savings added up to a sevenfold total of the investments. Including the loan of the researchers, data analysis and medical/mental support and counciling staff.

Poverty is not a lack of character. It is a lack of money. Solving it is no harder than handing out money.




I agree with goldeneye. the pilot studies are going on all over Europe right now.

Prevention is absolutely a way to cut costs. Thats part of the reason why the US spends more on healthcare than any rich country. The NHS in the UK means you can tackle a problem before it gets so bad that its even more expensive to deal with for you or the state. Makes sense.
I've heard such horror stories in the US of people having to just suffer for years while they wait for coverage.

It has already been shown in another thread, tell me if you need the source, that providing money to the poor actually promotes economic prosperity for the whole of society. On the other hand, the trickle down effect from money at the very top is a myth and poverty actually restricts development. Poverty - crime - poor educational attainment - surely these things are all linked and are a dead weight for societies to deal with?


Quote:

GoldenEye said:


Poverty is not a lack of character. It is a lack of money






Nice video Goldeneye :thumbup:
points well made.




I was talking about poor people in general, not Muslims in the EU, big difference.

"many americans believe- the American Dream?"

I'm afraid that notion left the table decades ago, nobody believes in it as reality has hit home.

"There are opportunities in the US"

Of course, but it's for a smaller and smaller amount of people, it certainly doesn't exist for poor people coming here from another country.


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OfflineTipote
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #22634864 - 12/09/15 06:24 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:

I was talking about poor people in general, not Muslims in the EU, big difference.

"many americans believe- the American Dream?"

I'm afraid that notion left the table decades ago, nobody believes in it as reality has hit home.

"There are opportunities in the US"

Of course, but it's for a smaller and smaller amount of people, it certainly doesn't exist for poor people coming here from another country.




like your family coming from poland? that was you, right? or are you saying that its different now because labour something something? unless youre defining labour to mean something else in america, surely people can make businesses here and employ people?
apparently there are already over half a million jobs still vacant in the US that can't be filled.

most of the politicians on the republican side seem to keep talking about the american dream,. i dont think its complete crap but absolutely it has a nice nostalgic glowing light behind it with the sound of angels singing in the background.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Tipote]
    #22634954 - 12/09/15 06:52 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Tipote said:
Quote:

qman said:

I was talking about poor people in general, not Muslims in the EU, big difference.

"many americans believe- the American Dream?"

I'm afraid that notion left the table decades ago, nobody believes in it as reality has hit home.

"There are opportunities in the US"

Of course, but it's for a smaller and smaller amount of people, it certainly doesn't exist for poor people coming here from another country.




like your family coming from poland? that was you, right? or are you saying that its different now because labour something something? unless youre defining labour to mean something else in america, surely people can make businesses here and employ people?
apparently there are already over half a million jobs still vacant in the US that can't be filled.

most of the politicians on the republican side seem to keep talking about the american dream,. i dont think its complete crap but absolutely it has a nice nostalgic glowing light behind it with the sound of angels singing in the background.




No, my great grandparents from Poland came to the US a little over 100 years ago, they had jobs at the mill waiting for them upon arrival, those jobs actually paid very strong wages in today's terms, they will able to save and quickly became land owners to be farmers.

"half a million jobs still vacant in the US that can't be filled"

Source?  There's always some job availability, mainly because many people are refusing to work for 1/2 the wage for the same job of 15-20 years ago. At the end of the day, the US has tens of millions of working eligible citizens NOT working.

Sure, the politicians are going to continue to pump the American dream even if it's a nightmare compared to 25 years ago.


Edited by qman (12/09/15 06:53 PM)


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #22634970 - 12/09/15 06:57 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
At the end of the day, the US has tens of millions of working eligible citizens NOT working.



Unemployment is back to normal (not great, but normal), and corporate profits are at their highest in US history, so the problem isn't a lack of jobs or money.  It's a lack of corporate will to pay people fair wages.


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #22634977 - 12/09/15 07:01 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
At the end of the day, the US has tens of millions of working eligible citizens NOT working.



Unemployment is back to normal (not great, but normal), and corporate profits are at their highest in US history, so the problem isn't a lack of jobs or money.  It's a lack of corporate will to pay people fair wages.




The "corporate will to pay people" has always been to pay the lowest possible, why do you think the corporations have moved operations to China, India, Mexico, Vietnam, ect?  It's not because of the weather.

It's always been about enhancing shareholder value, do you know why major corporations use temp workers to fill so many of their jobs today?  EXCESS POOL OF LABOR.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #22635032 - 12/09/15 07:18 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
The "corporate will to pay people" has always been to pay the lowest possible, why do you think the corporations have moved operations to China, India, Mexico, Vietnam, ect?



Of course it's always been that way.  Any why do you think Americans aren't making any more today in spite of record profits?  It's not because of a lack of money.

The only way Americans can do better is if the Government steps in.  To your point, why would corporations share their profits with their workers if their goal is to maximize shareholder value?


--------------------
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22635059 - 12/09/15 07:27 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
The "corporate will to pay people" has always been to pay the lowest possible, why do you think the corporations have moved operations to China, India, Mexico, Vietnam, ect?



Of course it's always been that way.  Any why do you think Americans aren't making any more today in spite of record profits?  It's not because of a lack of money.

The only way Americans can do better is if the Government steps in.  To your point, why would corporations share their profits with their workers if their goal is to maximize shareholder value?




They only share what they have to share, when my uncle graduated college (with a 2.5 GPA) in 1966 as an industrial engineer he had 7-8 offers before graduation, it was about paying enough to out bid the other companies, that's why they payed him a decent wage back then, today they are getting mountains of resumes per opening at the same fortune 200 company, times have changed.


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OfflineTipote
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #22635133 - 12/09/15 07:50 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
The "corporate will to pay people" has always been to pay the lowest possible, why do you think the corporations have moved operations to China, India, Mexico, Vietnam, ect?



Of course it's always been that way.  Any why do you think Americans aren't making any more today in spite of record profits?  It's not because of a lack of money.

The only way Americans can do better is if the Government steps in.  To your point, why would corporations share their profits with their workers if their goal is to maximize shareholder value?




They only share what they have to share, when my uncle graduated college (with a 2.5 GPA) in 1966 as an industrial engineer he had 7-8 offers before graduation, it was about paying enough to out bid the other companies, that's why they payed him a decent wage back then, today they are getting mountains of resumes per opening at the same fortune 200 company, times have changed.





would you support unionisation? it has been destroyed in the UK and US and has been demonised with the thatcher and reagan double team.  Corporations won't respect workers if the scale is tipped to their advantage.

we work more now and get paid less than 50 years ago. i don't see why things should be more automated and for the nature of jobs to change.

yes absolutely there are lots of jobs available because people dont want to get paid bullshit. i agree


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Offlineqman
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Tipote]
    #22635190 - 12/09/15 08:02 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Tipote said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
The "corporate will to pay people" has always been to pay the lowest possible, why do you think the corporations have moved operations to China, India, Mexico, Vietnam, ect?



Of course it's always been that way.  Any why do you think Americans aren't making any more today in spite of record profits?  It's not because of a lack of money.

The only way Americans can do better is if the Government steps in.  To your point, why would corporations share their profits with their workers if their goal is to maximize shareholder value?




They only share what they have to share, when my uncle graduated college (with a 2.5 GPA) in 1966 as an industrial engineer he had 7-8 offers before graduation, it was about paying enough to out bid the other companies, that's why they payed him a decent wage back then, today they are getting mountains of resumes per opening at the same fortune 200 company, times have changed.





would you support unionisation? it has been destroyed in the UK and US and has been demonised with the thatcher and reagan double team.  Corporations won't respect workers if the scale is tipped to their advantage.

we work more now and get paid less than 50 years ago. i don't see why things should be more automated and for the nature of jobs to change.

yes absolutely there are lots of jobs available because people dont want to get paid bullshit. i agree




Ideally I would like to see natural market forces (more jobs relative to workers) dictate strong wages for workers, so how do we do that in the US? Bring the jobs back home (tariffs) and boot out illegal workers, those are your ingredients for a much tighter labor market.

Do I support labor unions?  Yes I do, anything that can give the worker more bargaining power in today's environment is a good idea.

Again, what does the first thing a corporation do when they hear about unionization?  Threaten to move the jobs out of the US, tariffs would kill that incentive.


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman] * 1
    #22635219 - 12/09/15 08:08 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
when my uncle graduated college (with a 2.5 GPA) in 1966 as an industrial engineer he had 7-8 offers before graduation, it was about paying enough to out bid the other companies, that's why they payed him a decent wage back then, today they are getting mountains of resumes per opening at the same fortune 200 company, times have changed.



No, times haven't changed.  We've already discussed this.



The labor market was not tight all the way from the 50s' through the 70's, and it was not loose ever since.


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22635258 - 12/09/15 08:17 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
when my uncle graduated college (with a 2.5 GPA) in 1966 as an industrial engineer he had 7-8 offers before graduation, it was about paying enough to out bid the other companies, that's why they payed him a decent wage back then, today they are getting mountains of resumes per opening at the same fortune 200 company, times have changed.



No, times haven't changed.  We've already discussed this.



The labor market was not tight all the way from the 50s' through the 70's, and it was not loose ever since.




Depends on how you define the labor market, less than 10% of the labor market had a college degree in 1965, that created a very tight labor market for educated workers, today it's over 30-33%.  Corporate America has the pick of the litter.

http://www.familyfacts.org/charts/560/the-percentage-of-college-graduates-has-soared-since-1965


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OfflineTipote
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #22635324 - 12/09/15 08:31 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:

Ideally I would like to see natural market forces (more jobs relative to workers) dictate strong wages for workers, so how do we do that in the US? Bring the jobs back home (tariffs) and boot out illegal workers, those are your ingredients for a much tighter labor market.

Do I support labor unions?  Yes I do, anything that can give the worker more bargaining power in today's environment is a good idea.

Again, what does the first thing a corporation do when they hear about unionization?  Threaten to move the jobs out of the US, tariffs would kill that incentive.





those arent natural market forces then are they? I'm genuinely asking, i'm not very strong on my economics.

yes i imagine some protectionism would help.

i agree unions are important.

companies purposely abuse "illegals" or whatever they called so yes absolutely they shouldnt be allowed to do that. they give them jobs knowing they are here illegally and then fire them when they like or just call the authorities. yet its the illegals blamed rather than the companies who are effectively undercutting american workers wages.


--------------------
War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength


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Offlineqman
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Tipote]
    #22635397 - 12/09/15 08:42 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Tipote said:
Quote:

qman said:

Ideally I would like to see natural market forces (more jobs relative to workers) dictate strong wages for workers, so how do we do that in the US? Bring the jobs back home (tariffs) and boot out illegal workers, those are your ingredients for a much tighter labor market.

Do I support labor unions?  Yes I do, anything that can give the worker more bargaining power in today's environment is a good idea.

Again, what does the first thing a corporation do when they hear about unionization?  Threaten to move the jobs out of the US, tariffs would kill that incentive.





those arent natural market forces then are they? I'm genuinely asking, i'm not very strong on my economics.

yes i imagine some protectionism would help.

i agree unions are important.

companies purposely abuse "illegals" or whatever they called so yes absolutely they shouldnt be allowed to do that. they give them jobs knowing they are here illegally and then fire them when they like or just call the authorities. yet its the illegals blamed rather than the companies who are effectively undercutting american workers wages.




I have no issue with employers facing serious fines and criminal charges for hiring illegal workers.

Is globalization natural market forces?  Yes, but tariffs can change that equation and create a better market for labor.

There was a time in the US when low skilled manufacturing jobs paid very strong wages, I want to bring that back, so does Trump.


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