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Offlineviktor
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23898880 - 12/06/16 03:10 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Yes. All Abrahamic religions are fit for rapists.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: viktor]
    #23898901 - 12/06/16 03:31 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
Yes. All Abrahamic religions are fit for rapists.



glad we could be clear on that. i agree.

the constitution is also "fit for rapists", i mean, innocent before proven guilty surely helps, at least, if one is a rapist and knows how to cover their tracks.

see how you can spin any written material as a necessary influence to your enemies ideals? i mean, i don't like rapists, but surely the insurmountable definition for proof, as far as proving rape, legally, goes, is staggering, and thus it makes things easy for rapists.

now do i really believe that spin, no, i don't. just making a point.

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #23899062 - 12/06/16 06:33 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
You think CNN is equally dishonest as Fox News? You think they are equally slanted? Or their reporting is equally terrible?




The only difference is the direction of the lean.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #23899069 - 12/06/16 06:38 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
The media has trashed what little credibility it had left.




On that we can agree.


Quote:

The media is also largely responsible for Trump winning the whitehouse, mind you.




There's blame to go around. The left, Obama, the right 'elite', Hillary, Bill, Loretta, illegals... the list would be a very long one.

However, I think over-reach by the left is a major reason. But, the Reps will (as political parties do) will blow it. The the Dems will blow it, etc.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #23899085 - 12/06/16 06:47 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Leftist politics are the politics of personal liberty




:lmafo:

Speech codes. Being forced to do business with those you don't wish to. Forcing people to 'help' others. 'Diversity' that isn't true diversity.

The left may have been about personal liberty at one point but they morphed into using the force of government to get their way.

Lefties: We want personal liberty but only if you do things our way.

Note that the right isn't much better, but to say the left is about personal liberty is simply ludicrous.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #23899101 - 12/06/16 06:55 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

"it was at one point but not anymore"...that line of thinking just lends itself to circular reasoning, doesn't it?

any ideology can be perverted. the left, by the by, is made up of several ideologies; as is the right.

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Offlineviktor
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23899159 - 12/06/16 07:32 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
Quote:

viktor said:
Yes. All Abrahamic religions are fit for rapists.



glad we could be clear on that. i agree.





So, having observed that letting the Christian sect of the rapist cult led to mass rapes and murders for century upon century, is it fair to perhaps dare to suggest that letting the Muslim sect of the rapist cult in is probably a bad idea?


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: viktor]
    #23899163 - 12/06/16 07:35 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

As you pointed out, this isnt the dark ages.

Society can handle muslim rapists just as it can christians and jews and atheists.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: viktor]
    #23899185 - 12/06/16 07:51 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
Quote:

viktor said:
Yes. All Abrahamic religions are fit for rapists.



glad we could be clear on that. i agree.





So, having observed that letting the Christian sect of the rapist cult led to mass rapes and murders for century upon century, is it fair to perhaps dare to suggest that letting the Muslim sect of the rapist cult in is probably a bad idea?



don't let anyone in. it's probably a bad idea.

don't propagate. it's probably a bad idea.

don't walk down the street. it's probably a bad idea.

all of these things people have to pay for, you know, police, hospitals, and streets, all need to be maintained. so stop existing.

(PS: Ecstatic already provided a keen answer to your question, by the by. but to answer your question, - by the logic of your exposition, the christians should also be "cast out" from American political discourse, and from their abiding in-country, because they are rapists (right? according to the beliefs they espouse, by way of influence from their doctrines, which promote the morals of antiquity); which, no, i don't think that's the right option to take, to prevent christians or muslims from immigrating to the US if their paperwork is in order. )

Edited by akira_akuma (12/06/16 07:57 AM)

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Offlineviktor
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23899227 - 12/06/16 08:08 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
As you pointed out, this isnt the dark ages.

Society can handle muslim rapists just as it can christians and jews and atheists.




:facepalm:

This degree of irresponsibility shows that people with your ideas are not fit to govern.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: viktor]
    #23899233 - 12/06/16 08:12 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

The people with my ideas dont govern, and havent ever before now.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23899267 - 12/06/16 08:34 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
As you pointed out, this isnt the dark ages.

Society can handle muslim rapists just as it can christians and jews and atheists.




That's true, but what "society" can't handle are demographics of people that inflict pain at a disproportional amount relative to the general population, especially when that behavior is sourced from a warped ideology that has no benefit to the existing population.

There are breaking points and we're are just starting to witness it, I think you're going to be surprised how people address the "society can handle muslim rapists" crowd.

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Offlineqman
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23899277 - 12/06/16 08:41 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

qman said:
"Leftist politics are the politics of personal liberty"

Oh really?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_state

SJW's have been around for a long long time.




SJW's have not been around for a long time. The term has been around since the late 90's, and the villainized version we have today has been around since ~2011.

I know you're not going to read all of these, but you may skim them, and learn that leftist politics are indeed the politics of personal liberty. In fact, the branch of right wing American philosophy which actually embraces the idea of personal liberty (Libertarianism), was actually born on the left, and is still very leftist in much of it's rhetoric:

Quote:

Classical Liberalism is a political ideology and a branch of liberalism which advocates civil liberties and political freedom with representative democracy under the rule of law and emphasizes economic freedoms found in economic liberalism which is also called free market capitalism.[1][2]




Quote:

Social Liberalism is a political ideology that believes individual liberty requires a level of social justice. Like classical liberalism, social liberalism endorses a market economy and the expansion of civil and political rights and liberties, but differs in that it believes the legitimate role of the government includes addressing economic and social issues such as poverty, health care, and education.[1][2][3] Under social liberalism, the good of the community is viewed as harmonious with the freedom of the individual.[4] Social liberal policies have been widely adopted in much of the capitalist world, particularly following World War II.[5] Social liberal ideas and parties tend to be considered centrist or centre-left.




Quote:

Libertarianism (Latin: liber, "free") is a collection of political philosophies that uphold liberty. Libertarians seek to maximize autonomy and freedom of choice, emphasizing political freedom, voluntary association, and the primacy of individual judgment.[1][2]
Libertarians generally share a skepticism of authority; however, they diverge on the scope of their opposition to existing political and economic systems. Various schools of libertarian thought offer a range of views regarding the legitimate functions of state and private power, often calling to restrict or to dissolve coercive social institutions.
Some libertarians advocate laissez-faire capitalism and strong private property rights,[3] such as in land, infrastructure, and natural resources. Others, notably libertarian socialists,[4] seek to abolish capitalism and private ownership of the means of production in favor of their common or cooperative ownership and management.

...

Although the word libertarian continues to be widely used to refer to socialists internationally, its meaning in the United States has deviated from its political origins.[23][24] Libertarianism in the United States has been described as conservative on economic issues and liberal on personal freedom[25] (for common meanings of conservative and liberal in the United States); it is also often associated with a foreign policy of non-interventionism.




Quote:

The French Pierre-Joseph Proudhon is regarded as the first self-proclaimed anarchist, a label he adopted in his groundbreaking work, What is Property?, published in 1840...

He developed the theory of spontaneous order in society, where organisation emerges without a central coordinator imposing its own idea of order against the wills of individuals acting in their own interests; his famous quote on the matter is, "Liberty is the mother, not the daughter, of order."

Anarchism is usually considered a radical left-wing ideology,[23][24] and much of anarchist economics and anarchist legal philosophy reflects anti-authoritarian interpretations of communism, collectivism, syndicalism, mutualism, or participatory economics.




Quote:

A Worker Cooperative is a cooperative owned and self-managed by its workers. This control may be exercised in a number of ways. A cooperative enterprise may mean a firm where every worker-owner participates in decision-making in a democratic fashion, or it may refer to one in which management is elected by every worker-owner, and it can refer to a situation in which managers are considered, and treated as, workers of the firm.

The advocacy of workplace democracy, especially with the fullest expression of worker self-management, such as within workers' cooperatives, is rooted within several intellectual or political traditions:

-The alleviation of alienation in the workplace, especially in regard to Marxist thought.

- The encouragement of Participatory or direct democracy.

- Radical but popular-democratic strategies for the overthrow of capitalism, for example, several strains of socialist and anarchist thought.

- Autonomy and self-control, especially within anarchist thought.

- Cooperating with other Worker Cooperatives.

Workers' cooperatives are also central to ideas of Autonomism, Distributism, Mutualism, Syndicalism, Participatory economics, Guild socialism, Libertarian socialism as well as others.





Now, you can point to failed leftist authoritarian states, and I can point to failed right-wing authoritarian states all day... Instead, let's have a look at their ideology, to get a glimpse of the ideals they hold:

Quote:

Fascism /ˈfæʃɪzəm/ is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism[1][2] that came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe, influenced by national syndicalism. Fascism originated in Italy during World War I and spread to other European countries. Fascism opposes liberalism, Marxism and anarchism and is usually placed on the far-right within the traditional left–right spectrum.




Quote:

Nazism is the ideology and practice associated with the 20th-century German Nazi Party and Nazi state, as well as other far-right groups. Usually characterised as a form of fascism that incorporates scientific racism and antisemitism, Nazism developed out of the influences of Pan-Germanism, the Völkisch German nationalist movement and the anti-communist Freikorps paramilitary groups that emerged during the Weimar Republic after German defeat in World War I.

During World War I, German sociologist Johann Plenge spoke of the rise of a "National Socialism" in Germany within what he termed the "ideas of 1914" that were a declaration of war against the "ideas of 1789" (the French Revolution).[77] According to Plenge, the "ideas of 1789" that included rights of man, democracy, individualism and liberalism were being rejected in favour of "the ideas of 1914" that included "German values" of duty, discipline, law, and order.

Private property rights were conditional upon the economic mode of use; if it did not advance Nazi economic goals then the state could nationalise it.[191] Although the Nazis privatised public properties and public services, they also increased economic state control.[192] Under Nazi economics, free competition and self-regulating markets diminished; nevertheless, Hitler's social Darwinist beliefs made him reluctant to entirely disregard business competition and private property as economic engines.




I honestly don't know of any other coherent ideologies of right-wing politics. I'm sure there are plenty, maybe you could enlighten me.

In America, the right attempted to stifle the civil rights movement, stood in opposition to the sexual revolution, and gay rights. They have attempted to impose Christian religious doctrine as law.

I honestly don't see how you can make the case that you are trying to make. Leftist politics are geared toward personal freedom. Right wing politics are geared toward nationalism, theocracy, and an authoritarian rule-of-law/police state.




"SJW's have not been around for a long time"

Are you really this naïve?  The term is new, but the practice has been around for a long long time.

"Leftist politics are geared toward personal freedom"

And if I disagree with any these "leftist politics" you will just label me an -ism and shut down the debate, sounds like wonderful "personal freedom".

This isn't the thread for a left vs right debate on personal freedom, both sides are equal on this issue because humans are flawed on both sides.

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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: viktor]
    #23899318 - 12/06/16 08:59 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
If not, you are foolish.





Could it not be said, with at least equal conviction, that letting millions of people who follow a religion fit for rapists into your country is also foolish?




You let the pedophilic minions of the papistry in...


--------------------
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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman] * 1
    #23899328 - 12/06/16 09:06 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
As you pointed out, this isnt the dark ages.

Society can handle muslim rapists just as it can christians and jews and atheists.




That's true, but what "society" can't handle are demographics of people that inflict pain at a disproportional amount relative to the general population, especially when that behavior is sourced from a warped ideology that has no benefit to the existing population.

There are breaking points and we're are just starting to witness it, I think you're going to be surprised how people address the "society can handle muslim rapists" crowd.




I can tell by your rhetoric that you're anticipating a ramp up in Islamaic violence in the EU to justify your fear. But when that doesnt happen, what then? Attribute the non-cataclysm to the electing of far right leaders? If so, then theres nothing to worry about it.

Everybody with sense is aware of the troubling percentages of Muslims who support ideas like punishing apostates and restricting women's rights, but you're giving the vast majority much too much credit. Either they are uncivilized hordes who the domestic populace will beat back when they try to advance an agenda (as we've seen), or they are a nefarious trojan horse group which will mastermind the destruction of the EU from the inside. But it cant be both.

The true refugees (which outnumber the migrants, a fact youll have to eventually accept) aren't looking to recreate the repressive patriarchial authoritarian societied they just fled. Even you have posted articles citing the biggest concerns of some group of refugees was the welfare of their children, education opportunities, jobs, etc.

I think theres a base misunderstanding here that the refugees, or even the migrants, are trying to recreate Aleppo in every nation across Europe.

"Well how the hell are they gonna come here and recreate their disaster and think its gonna work when it just failed?"

I could say the same to those cheering on the rise of fascism in Europe.


--------------------

Edited by The Ecstatic (12/06/16 09:12 AM)

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Offlinefinalexplosion
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #23899358 - 12/06/16 09:24 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:

"SJW's have not been around for a long time"

Are you really this naïve?  The term is new, but the practice has been around for a long long time.

"Leftist politics are geared toward personal freedom"

And if I disagree with any these "leftist politics" you will just label me an -ism and shut down the debate, sounds like wonderful "personal freedom".

This isn't the thread for a left vs right debate on personal freedom, both sides are equal on this issue because humans are flawed on both sides.




One side is a chameleon; both perpetrator and victim. Sociopathy at its finest.


--------------------
The light of wisdom is driving away the darkness. Look at the ground. Now you can see your own shadow. If you are scared by the shadow that follows you, just remember, wherever shadows fall, light is always nearby.

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Offlineqman
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23899387 - 12/06/16 09:36 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
As you pointed out, this isnt the dark ages.

Society can handle muslim rapists just as it can christians and jews and atheists.




That's true, but what "society" can't handle are demographics of people that inflict pain at a disproportional amount relative to the general population, especially when that behavior is sourced from a warped ideology that has no benefit to the existing population.

There are breaking points and we're are just starting to witness it, I think you're going to be surprised how people address the "society can handle muslim rapists" crowd.




I can tell by your rhetoric that you're anticipating a ramp up in Islamaic violence in the EU to justify your fear. But when that doesnt happen, what then? Attribute the non-cataclysm to the electing of far right leaders? If so, then theres nothing to worry about it.

Everybody with sense is aware of the troubling percentages of Muslims who support ideas like punishing apostates and restricting women's rights, but you're giving the vast majority much too much credit. Either they are uncivilized hordes who the domestic populace will beat back when they try to advance an agenda (as we've seen), or they are a nefarious trojan horse group which will mastermind the destruction of the EU from the inside. But it cant be both.

The true refugees (which outnumber the migrants, a fact youll have to eventually accept) aren't looking to recreate the repressive patriarchial authoritarian societied they just fled. Even you have posted articles citing the biggest concerns of some group of refugees was the welfare of their children, education opportunities, jobs, etc.

I think theres a base misunderstanding here that the refugees, or even the migrants, are trying to recreate Aleppo in every nation across Europe.

"Well how the hell are they gonna come here and recreate their disaster and think its gonna work when it just failed?"

I could say the same to those cheering on the rise of fascism in Europe.




"you're anticipating a ramp up of Islamic violence in the EU"

No, I see the average economic migrant being a social and economic disaster for the native populations, just like they have been since they arrived.

"But when that doesn't happen, then what?"

It's already been happening, these people can NOT support themselves and the EU can't afford to support these people in every aspect of their lives. The EU gets no benefits from these people, only drawbacks.

Yes, many of these migrants want a better life, but that's NOT a reason for EU citizens to support them, that's NOT a reason for EU citizens to put up with their primitive culture. The EU can't afford the take care of their of citizens, why would they want to support outsiders?  It makes zero sense.

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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: luvdemshrooms] * 2
    #23899419 - 12/06/16 09:53 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
You think CNN is equally dishonest as Fox News? You think they are equally slanted? Or their reporting is equally terrible?




The only difference is the direction of the lean.




As far as Fox News vs CNN, Fox News is openly biased, and CNN is not 'left-leaning', they are (generally speaking) almost completely, 100% across the board centrist. They attempt to give equal credence to both sides of every issue, even when one side is clearly more valid than the other. I personally consider this disingenuousness to be incredibly unpalatable. It makes Wolff Blitzer come off as a soulless  zombie robot.

From what I have witnessed, (and I don't watch cable news anymore... for a good 4+ years) CNN is far less inclined to report wholly inaccurate nonsense than Fox News is. Fox fabricates shit out of thin air only to retract it later, when nobody is watching, or not at all. CNN, the Times, the Post, etc; they all have an affinity for propagating misinformation via omission of pertinent facts. I guess Fox does this too. They are both deceitful entities, but I don't see how the scale of their propagandizing is comparable.

An example of this is Fox News' 'war on christmas', a strawman they created to boost ratings. Fox News preys on the religiosity of it's viewership, and uses it to work them up. That's about as low as you can go, really. I haven't seen anything like that from CNN, have you?

With all of that said, this past year I have been forced to watch Fox News on a couple of occasions, because they were the only ones reporting what was going on with the Clinton Emails, and all that jazz. It gave me some semblance of an idea what was going on, but you have to use a million other sources, and ignore the partisan punditry, to get a satisfactory picture.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
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"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #23899428 - 12/06/16 09:56 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
The media has trashed what little credibility it had left.




On that we can agree.


Quote:

The media is also largely responsible for Trump winning the whitehouse, mind you.




There's blame to go around. The left, Obama, the right 'elite', Hillary, Bill, Loretta, illegals... the list would be a very long one.

However, I think over-reach by the left is a major reason. But, the Reps will (as political parties do) will blow it. The the Dems will blow it, etc.




Right. I actually believe there was an enormous list of things going on that created the perfect storm for a Trump election. Clearly it's not because the country was overwhelmingly excited about his policy positions or his character.

What do you mean by over-reach? Do you mean meddling with the election? Or are you referring to political overreach in congress, etc?


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #23899438 - 12/06/16 10:01 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
they are (generally speaking) almost completely, 100% across the board centrist. They attempt to give equal credence to both sides of every issue, even when one side is clearly more valid than the other.




:lmafo:

They, like much of the media... have an agenda.

You likely don't see it because you seemingly agree, consciously or otherwise, with it.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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