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OfflineJetBlackNinja
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Everything I always wanted to know about casing.
    #2262489 - 01/22/04 12:10 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Is it okay to mist with pure Hydrogen Peroxide straight out the bottle? I know it's already diluted to 3% in the bottle, but does it need to be diluted further to use, or can i just mist with it as is?

Perlite, people say they use it as the bottom casing layer. I would love to know exactly how to do it. Does it need to be wet or dry? How much should I use? Do it need to be pre-treated in any way? HELL, is there a good Tek on this somewhere?

As we all know the substrate runs out of nutrients, and I stop getting shrooms. Life fuckin' sucks. Could I inject Karo or a Karo water down into the subatrate layer? maybe mid 2nd flush? Is there any other "late game" nutrient I should be using to try to increase yields, and casing life span?

I make my casings in disposable turkey or lasagna tins, after they are done I cover them in "cling-wrap". and throw them back in the incubator to colonize the casing layer. They get misted, and patched right in the incubator, and then birthed or "fruited" to an indoor greenhouse style terrarium. Is this a sound process?

After I do the under layer i break up my substrate onto it. Before I cover the substrate with my Coir casing layer, can I spray the hell out of my substrate layer with H2O2 to help prevent contams? Is there another method for insulation against contams that I am just not thinking of?

Okay, these are the things I can think of right now, hopefully the answers will ead to more questions, which will then lead to more answers.

Thanks in advance guys.


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OfflineJetBlackNinja
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Re: Everything I always wanted to know about casing. [Re: JetBlackNinja]
    #2262503 - 01/22/04 12:17 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Thought of another one, can I use a bottle of Hydrogen Peroxide instead of water to "expand" my Coir?


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OfflineJetBlackNinja
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Re: Everything I always wanted to know about casing. [Re: JetBlackNinja]
    #2262598 - 01/22/04 01:09 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

anyone? anyone.... Bueller?


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OfflineBersilak
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Re: Everything I always wanted to know about casing. [Re: JetBlackNinja]
    #2262609 - 01/22/04 01:17 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Not sure why you would use H2O2 to expand your coir. If you did, it would need to either be sterilized (rapidly breaking down the H2O2) or sit for several days (allow the H2O2 to break down naturally). If you were to just hydrate and case, growth through the casing layer would be hampered.


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Offline20cent
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Re: Everything I always wanted to know about casing. [Re: Bersilak]
    #2262656 - 01/22/04 01:38 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

JetBN, I would keep in mind that shrooms typically stop growing from casings due to water loss. Shrooms are roughly 90 percent water, so if you get 350 grams wet in the first flush, you've allready lost 315 grams of water. As far as nutrients, I'm quite sure that the casing itself already has enough nutes to produce many flushes of shrooms. Rather then finding a nutrient to inject into the substrate (post-harvest), I would try to think of new ways to rejuvenate the lost water content (starter likes to dunk casings between, anno mists... both get great results). As for expanding coir in the h2o2, it's really unnecessary IMO. I would expand with water, squeeze excess water, and nuke for 10 min (5-5). If the coir looks dry, mist it with some distilled/purified water. You can lightly mist the casing with a little h2o2 if you like (paranoia etc). But I have never had a problem without it. I would suggest popping some drain holes at the bottom of those casing trays. This way, you can really give those casings alot of water while you are incubating (the idea is to get the casing to hold as much water as possible without leaking... the drain holes take out all the guess work in this). After the casing is patched, pop it in the terranium. No need for extra humidity with casings, especially if the pre-load of water is at optimum levels. To be sure, I keep a damp sponge on the floor of the terranium, and I never have to mist my casings. Play with these variables, and remember that often water content in casings is really the key to a terrific yield.

cheers, 20c


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OfflineJetBlackNinja
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Re: Everything I always wanted to know about casing. [Re: 20cent]
    #2262839 - 01/22/04 03:07 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

20, thanks for trying but I get the distinct feeling you missed the point of my questions. I get ?water content? and casings just fine. It?s all pretty elementary actually. I came here with some very specific questions, which I can?t seem to get answered.

1. can someone explain EXACTLY how to use perlite as a bottom casing layer?
2. can nutrients be added to a substrate layer after colonization and casing, or is it done, and dead?
3. Will H2O2 hurt mycelium trying to colonate the casing layer, or can I apply liberally?


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Invisiblesimplemachine
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Re: Everything I always wanted to know about casing. [Re: JetBlackNinja]
    #2262895 - 01/22/04 03:35 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

1. I don't do it. It's just another vector for contams.
2. I don't know, try it!
3. No it can be aplied liberally, especialy after the 1st sign of cobweb, but if no contams are present, I just put a little in my mist water for xtra sterility.

My casing are room temp once I'm ready to FRUIT. But when I make a new casing I return it to the incubator for a few days till the myc colonizes the casing layer.

I think 80-85 is right on for colonization of a casing layer, which is what I think Senovio is looking for our help on. :laugh:



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OfflineJetBlackNinja
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Re: Everything I always wanted to know about casing. [Re: JetBlackNinja]
    #2262928 - 01/22/04 03:52 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

1.Thanks Simple. I read that almost all the "major players" use Perlite as an under-casing, and was curious to try it.

2.I don't really experiment with my shit. There are tons of experimenters here, and that's why i ask.

3.Thanks I use some, but I am willing to use much more if I can.


and PS you cut and pasted too much when you were getting the blue shrroms. Now every post your doing repeats that info on incubation temps.


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Offlinemobiusrunner
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Re: Everything I always wanted to know about casing. [Re: JetBlackNinja]
    #2262929 - 01/22/04 03:52 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

People seem afraid of perlite... it's kind of funny really.

Perlite, in my semi-scientific tests retains water better than verm does - and it's equally sterile. I recently started using field capacity (when you squeeze it a bit of water drips out) perlite as my bottom casing layer and couldn't be happier.


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By "I", I of course mean a good friend of mine who happens to live in the fine city of Amsterdam. "I" is just so less awkward.


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OfflineScolecite
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Re: Everything I always wanted to know about casing. [Re: mobiusrunner]
    #2264998 - 01/23/04 08:11 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

JetBlackNinja- I can tell your a noob at this so Im going to help you out.  :grin:  :blush:

Here is all these 3 down below on This page: http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_cultivation.shtml

Perlite Humidification FAQ
Perlite Tech. Recommendation
Perlite Plus Casing Method
*************** EDIT: FOR CLARIFICATION PURPOSES IM TALKING ABOUT THE CASING HERE BELOW!!!!!**************************************
Basically what should be done is take the perlite and put it in a collinder so you can drain it and run water over it untill its all moist then let drain so its not dripping wet. Then place exactly 1 inch of perlite on the bottom. Some suggest putting it in wet then filling up the water 1/4 inch from top or whatever but the previous method is fullproof to get the proper amount of moisture. 

And remember, it's both a thousand times easier than you think, and a thousand times harder too.  :tongue:

~later~

Oh when are you going to case? Maybe we can have a competition!


Edited by Scolecite (01/23/04 09:17 AM)


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OfflineJetBlackNinja
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Re: Everything I always wanted to know about casing. [Re: Scolecite]
    #2265045 - 01/23/04 08:49 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Scolecite said:
JetBlackNinja- I can tell your a noob at this so Im going to help you out.  :grin:  :blush:

Here is all these 3 down below on This page: http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_cultivation.shtml

Perlite Humidification FAQ
Perlite Tech. Recommendation
Perlite Plus Casing Method

Basically what should be done is take the perlite and put it in a collinder so you can drain it and run water over it untill its all moist then let drain so its not dripping wet. Then place exactly 1 inch of perlite on the bottom. Some suggest putting it in wet then filling up the water 1/4 inch from top or whatever but the previous method is fullproof to get the proper amount of moisture. 

And remember, it's both a thousand times easier than you think, and a thousand times harder too.  :tongue:

~later~

Oh when are you going to case? Maybe we can have a competition! 




Man, YOU are such a NoOb! Those links are how to humidify a terrarium with Perlite! HAHA. :smile: I could do that with my eyes closed. :tongue: I read everything in the Erowid vault years ago.

I am asking questions about how to use it in a casing. Something that has just recently started to be discussed.

Cute to quote me, even cuter to get it completly wrong while doing it! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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OfflineScolecite
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Re: Everything I always wanted to know about casing. [Re: JetBlackNinja]
    #2265073 - 01/23/04 09:13 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I know its about the casing just thought I throw the links up for you. I thought one of them was about the casing layer, but I didnt bother to check. In my post I describe how to do it under the links, but I never specified I was talking about the casing  :grin: However, this question is easily solved by common sense.

You dont want too much water to pool up at the bottom, so just like everything else make it field capacity wet. How can you go wrong with that? And since some people dont use a casing layer at all, you could guess an inch would do it to moisturize and drain the upper layers. 

Right?

I have learned much in the past 2 days, young Jedi  :eyemouth:


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OfflineJetBlackNinja
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Re: Everything I always wanted to know about casing. [Re: Scolecite]
    #2265141 - 01/23/04 10:00 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Scolecite said:
Oh when are you going to case? Maybe we can have a competition!




I started a few casing last Monday, and will do a few more this weekend. i used Verm last weekend to excellent results.

Your probably glad you didn't race me though, I was colonating a particularly strong strain of Blue Meanies, the casing was almost completely ready for birthing in 4 days.


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OfflineScolecite
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Re: Everything I always wanted to know about casing. [Re: JetBlackNinja]
    #2265152 - 01/23/04 10:08 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

OMG thats insane fast! Ok maybe your right, but post a pic if you can and I will do the same if my results arent disaterous.

What tek you using? I like Skippy Tek.

~later~


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Anonymous

Re: Everything I always wanted to know about casing. [Re: JetBlackNinja]
    #2265159 - 01/23/04 10:13 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I only mist when the walls look dry which is close to never but i keep them in self contained rubbermaids


that was right before I cased and I didnt mist ever look at the moister


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OfflineJetBlackNinja
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Re: Everything I always wanted to know about casing. [Re: Scolecite]
    #2265216 - 01/23/04 10:52 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Scolecite said:
OMG thats insane fast! Ok maybe your right, but post a pic if you can and I will do the same if my results arent disaterous.

What tek you using? I like Skippy Tek.

~later~




I know, it was twice the speed I usually attained. In your defense this was a fluke job for me. I did some WBS spawned with B+ at the same time, and it's not moving anywhere near as quickly.

Thanks for all the advice in the Perlite guys. Now I got some tough decisdions to make.

Stick with what has been working? or go onto the something new.


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Offline20cent
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Re: Everything I always wanted to know about casing. [Re: JetBlackNinja]
    #2268979 - 01/24/04 08:17 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Jet, did a quick test to help with your 3rd question (h2o2 affecting mycelium adversely).  I took a chunk of myc from a quart jar and submerged it into some hydrogen peroxide for 24 hours.  I threw this puppy into a millet jar, and it has allready begun colonizing.  If the h2o2 didn't create problems for the g2g, I would further reinforce the theory that H2O2 will probably not hurt mycelium that is colonizing your casing layer.  I am sure you probably allready figured it all out, but I thought I would throw out some hands-on data to back you up. Sorry for the off-kilter post earlier :smile:

20c


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InvisibleOldSpice
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Post deleted by Administrator [Re: JetBlackNinja]
    #2269086 - 01/24/04 09:05 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)



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So hard to be ....WDWGFH?
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Invisiblefungusflip
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Re: Everything I always wanted to know about casing. [Re: OldSpice]
    #2269301 - 01/24/04 10:12 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

wet the perilit and drain it then put it in your pan, put foil over it and cook it in the oven for 1 hour at 375 take it out let it cool and dump your substrate on top . incubate for 24 hours then case it. hope that helps


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InvisibleJared
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Re: Everything I always wanted to know about casing. [Re: fungusflip]
    #2270319 - 01/25/04 03:28 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I like using a layer of geolite under my casings.. I just layer the pebbles one deep, so the mycelium can drink any water that collects in the bottom as it needs it.. this way I can keep things really nice and wet, without worrying about having a big sloppy mess in the bottom. :smile:


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