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Offlineadroit_synth
Dr. Mycelium
Registered: 01/13/04
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Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
incubation temperature for p. cubensis
    #2261683 - 01/22/04 02:15 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I posted this in the mushroom cultivation forum and post here after a suggestion. Check out the other thread: temp thread


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OfflineBasidiocarp
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Re: incubation temperature for p. cubensis [Re: adroit_synth]
    #2261785 - 01/22/04 03:04 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

My two cents on this issue:

1)As I recall, mycelium does contain small amounts of goodies, but nothing compared to what's in the fruit bodies.  The final goodie content of the fruit bodies is predominently dependent on biosynthesis that occurs during primordia formation and subsequent fruit body maturation.  It's not like goodies are "built up" in the mycelium during the spawn run and then distributed to the fruit bodies.  So in effect, your friend trying to boost goodie content by mucking with the colonization temp. is probably wasting effort.

2)One's primary concern during colonization, regardless of the species, is  SPEED.  You want the substrate fully captured by mycelium before competitors take hold.  Fast colonization also means that less of the substrate is used up by wasteful vegetative growth;  it's saved for fruit body formation.  Thus, one should provide the optimum temperature for fastest growth.  Stamets and many others have proven that a  substrate  temp. of 86F results in the fastest growing mycelium for your species.  Do slightly lower or higher temps work?  Of course, it's just that growth will be slower.

3)If, during the fruiting stage, one provides the ideal conditions for the species, along with a highly nutritious substrate, then one can expect maximum yields, both in terms of crop size and "nutritional" content, if you will.

4)What is "maximum?"  Well that's up to the genetic programming in the fungus.  No single variable has more of an impact on a mushroom's characteristics than it's particualr strain.  Forget temp, humidity, casing, how much poo in the substrate, how often you dance naked in front of your mycelium, etc.--  If the strain is weak, you're not going to change that by changing growth parameters.  That's why mycologists are constantly looking for new and better strains, or are tryng to improve existing strains.

5)AFAIK, there haven't been any studies comparing substrate temperature (during colonization or fruiting) and goodie content.  So, you're out of luck if you want "hard numbers" and not qualitative descriptions.  Anyone out there know of anything?

I hope that helps a bit.  :eyemouth:

The above information is in no way intended to encourage the undertaking of any illegal activites.  It is provided for scholarly purposes only.


--------------------
"...if the mind is actually part of a continuum, a labyrinth that is connected not only to every other mind that exists or has existed, but to every atom, organism, and region in the vastness of space and time itself, the fact that it is able to occasionally make forays into the labyrinth and have transpersonal experiences no longer seems so strange."

Visit the Psychonautical Society


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Offlineadroit_synth
Dr. Mycelium
Registered: 01/13/04
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Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: incubation temperature for p. cubensis [Re: Basidiocarp]
    #2262209 - 01/22/04 09:34 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Good that answers some questions. He knew that the fruit had more but colonization and extraction on a constant rotation yeilds much more alkaloids in less time and effort. He knows they are not stockpiled in the mycelium but the myccelia do indeed prodcue a substantial amount of magic. I can post the extraction technique as well as a qualitative analysis to ensure complete extraction if anyone cares.


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Offlineragadinks
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Re: incubation temperature for p. cubensis [Re: adroit_synth]
    #2262884 - 01/22/04 03:31 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

yeah, I am interested !


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Offlineadroit_synth
Dr. Mycelium
Registered: 01/13/04
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Re: incubation temperature for p. cubensis [Re: ragadinks]
    #2265509 - 01/23/04 01:17 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Gleened from Psylocybin Production by Adam Gottlieb with comments by me in green
Harvesting and Drying
This should not be attempted without knowledge of the hazards involved with working with methanol. OR anyone without a proper vacuum source to substitute for the drying, extracting and removal of solvent.
-The medium of each jar is filtered through a clean funnel cloth. These jars are 1 quart size with PDY broth as medium. The mycelial material is removed from the cloth, placed in a Pyrex baking dish and allowed to dry in the oven at a temperature no greater than 200F. An oven thermometer should be used b/c the temp on the knb may not be accurate. The mycelium should be checked preiodically. When it first appears to be dried, the heat is turned off and it is allowed to cool in the oven. Each jar should yield 50-100g of wet mycelium which is about 90% water, for a dry yield of 5-10g of crumbly material.
Extraction
-The dried mycelial material is crumbled and pulverised, nd each 100mg of this is combined in a flask with 10ml of absolute methanol. The flask is placed in a hot water bath for four hours. The liquids are collected and saved. The slurry (the mush in the filter paper) is heated two more times in methanol as before. The liquids of the three extractions are combined.
-To be certain that all of the alkaloids have been exracted, a small extraction of a portion of the used slury is tested with Kelle's Reagent (glacial acetic acid, ferrous chloride, and concentrated sulfuric acid). If there is a violet indication, alkaloids are still present and more extractoin is in order.
-In an open beaker the liquids are evaporated to total dryness with a hot water bath or applying a hair dryer. All traces of methanol must be removed. The remaining residue is should contain 25-50% psilocybin/psilocin mixtue.
-Greater purification can be ahieved, but it would require other solvents and chromotagraphic equipment and is hardly necessary. Each 100g of dried mycelium should yield about 2g of extracted material. This should contain at least 500mg of a psilocybin/psilocin mixture or about fifty 10mg doses. Now tell me it is not worth it to cultivate mycelium for the magic!


Edited by adroit_synth (01/24/04 07:24 PM)


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: incubation temperature for p. cubensis [Re: adroit_synth]
    #2265937 - 01/23/04 04:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

It is not worth it to cultivate cubensis mycelium for the magic! But, you can do it, and it does work, if that is worth it to you, then it can work.

You sound like a smart guy, before you start extracting mycelium goop, look into mexicana a, sclerotia... cubes make better shrooms than myc extracts... unless you like extracting, although it can seem like a waste to a novice grower, it isn't a big waste. Not worth the effort in many people's opinion.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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OfflineBasidiocarp
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Re: incubation temperature for p. cubensis [Re: adroit_synth]
    #2266069 - 01/23/04 04:44 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

A few points of order:

--Psilocin is extremely heat-labile.  After all of the repeated heatings listed in this TEK, you can kiss it all goodbye.  You'd have only psilocybin left.

--Mushroom fruit bodies can be dried without the use of ANY heat whatsoever, thus preserving at least some of the psilocin content.

Now, let's put all of that aside and give your numbers and efficiencies the benefit of the doubt in the following little story.

Case Study #1
Dr. Mycelium wants to produce fifty 10mg doses of psilocybin (a heavy dose by most published standards) via mycelial extraction.  According to your TEK, he would require 100mg of dried mycelium.  If 1 quart of broth culture yields say 7g of dry material, he will have to sterilize and grow up about 14 quarts of broth (3.5 gallons!).

Hopefully Dr. Mycelium has a large autoclave.

Dr. Mycelium then has to evaporate 3.5 gallons of PDY broth in his oven.

Dr. Mycelium's wife leaves him because he stunk up the house so bad.

Dr. Mycelium then extracts his alkaloids with methanol.  Unfortunately all those methanol fumes he generates causes him to go blind in one eye and to develop some permanent muscle twitches.  He also severely burnt his hand when internal sparking from his hair dryer ignited the evaporating methanol fumes.

Dr. Mycelium doesn't mind all of these setbacks, though, because he's got his fifty 10mg does in the end, in a relatively short period of time.

Case Study #2:
Dr. Mushy wants to produce fifty 3g doses of cubies (again, a moderate to strong dose, since he knows how to dry his mushies without heat and has a fairly potent strain).  That's 150g total dry weight, or about 1875g (4.125lbs) wet weight.  Following Paul Stamets' instructions, Dr. Mushy sterilizes a mere 1/2 gallon of grain and grows it out.  He pasteurizes some substrate, enough to fill a 2 foot by 2 foot tray 6 inches deep.  He then spawns it with his 1/2 gallon of grain, and provides the proper love and care.  Time passes.  According to Paul Stamets, Dr. Mushy can expect to reap 4-8 lbs of fresh mushies over a 5-week cropping period, more than enough to get his 150g dry material.

Now granted, it probably took Dr. Mushy close to 2 months or so to do all of this, while Dr. Mycelium was probably done in a week or so.  But poor Dr. Mycelium stunk up his house, lost his wife, and has permanent neural damage.  :frown:

Of course my parable exaggerates things, but you get my point:  It comes down do this choice:  do you want to be a farmer using all-natural and safe ingredients/procedures, or do you want to play organic chemist in your kitchen with dangerous chemicals?

Whatever floats your boat, I guess.

The above is not meant to encourage or endorse the undertaking of any illegal activites.  It is provided for strictly scholarly purposes only.


--------------------
"...if the mind is actually part of a continuum, a labyrinth that is connected not only to every other mind that exists or has existed, but to every atom, organism, and region in the vastness of space and time itself, the fact that it is able to occasionally make forays into the labyrinth and have transpersonal experiences no longer seems so strange."

Visit the Psychonautical Society


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Offlineadroit_synth
Dr. Mycelium
Registered: 01/13/04
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silly [Re: Basidiocarp]
    #2268590 - 01/24/04 05:19 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Well that is just a great little story there basidiocarp but Dr. Mycelium is keen on the schemes and uses a rotary vane pump to dry the mycelium as well as to strip the extract of solvent. Works magnificently fast! On second thought, Dr. Mycelium does not recommend this method without vacuum and srubber on the exhaust.


Edited by adroit_synth (01/24/04 07:19 PM)


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Offlineamyloid
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Re: incubation temperature for p. cubensis [Re: Basidiocarp]
    #2268637 - 01/24/04 05:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Dr. Mycelium's wife leaves him because he stunk up the house so bad.

i love you, but i cant be with you because you made the house smell, goodbye.


--------------------
"A human being is part of a whole, called by us the Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separated from the rest--a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circles of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty."
-Al Einstein


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OfflineBasidiocarp
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Re: silly [Re: adroit_synth]
    #2268657 - 01/24/04 05:45 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

adroit_synth said:
Dr. Mycelium is keen on the schemes and uses a rotary vane pump to dry the mycelium as well as to strip the extract of solvent. Works magnificently fast! You see Dr. Mycelium is a chemist and feels that if someonn does not have the brains to work with methanol safely then they can look forward to a lifetime of working in fast food chains. IMHO these people are also not worthing of sampling the magic this fungus produces.




My lil' story was based on the information that YOU provided in the above post/TEK. If you, as an author are familiar with rotary vane pumps and the toxic/flammable nature of methanol, I ask this: Why are you knowingly posting a TEK that contains dangerous procedures (and down right stupidity (methanol and a hair drier!?)? The audience of this forum is not expected to have an organic chemistry background. Thus I feel that someone porviding an organic chem TEK here has some responsibility to point out possible dangers in the procedure or at least modify known, unsafe steps.

IMHO, I find your final comment condescending and inappropriate for this forum. To imply that someone who doesn't know about organic chem. and works at McDonald's isn't "worthing"( sic ) of expanding his mind by tripping is ignorant. I feel that any person with an open mind, regardless of their level of education or position of employment, could potentially benefit from a psychedelic experience.


--------------------
"...if the mind is actually part of a continuum, a labyrinth that is connected not only to every other mind that exists or has existed, but to every atom, organism, and region in the vastness of space and time itself, the fact that it is able to occasionally make forays into the labyrinth and have transpersonal experiences no longer seems so strange."

Visit the Psychonautical Society


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Offlineadroit_synth
Dr. Mycelium
Registered: 01/13/04
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agreed [Re: Basidiocarp]
    #2268850 - 01/24/04 07:14 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Point well taken, I suppose I was a little hasty in my last reply. I should have added more comments in the extraction post, which I merely copied from the book. As for the last comment, I agree most can benefit from mind expansion but many simply lack the respnsibility required to do so. When previewing psychosis at high doses a great amount of discipline and self-control most be exersiced. I suppose a McDonald's worker can indeed exhibit these qualities and apolgize for my stereotyping. Edits have been made.


Edited by adroit_synth (01/24/04 07:24 PM)


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OfflineBasidiocarp
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Re: agreed [Re: adroit_synth]
    #2268942 - 01/24/04 07:50 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks very much for your edits and reconsideration. :thumbup:

It's great when a potential flame war is resolved and everyone is happy and friends in the end.  Group Shroomery Hug! (tm)    :lol:

If you have any communications from Dr. Mycelium in the future regarding how things go for him, please pass the info. on.  Thanks!


--------------------
"...if the mind is actually part of a continuum, a labyrinth that is connected not only to every other mind that exists or has existed, but to every atom, organism, and region in the vastness of space and time itself, the fact that it is able to occasionally make forays into the labyrinth and have transpersonal experiences no longer seems so strange."

Visit the Psychonautical Society


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Offlineadroit_synth
Dr. Mycelium
Registered: 01/13/04
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Re: agreed [Re: Basidiocarp]
    #2269146 - 01/24/04 09:27 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah flame wars can get nasty. I should correspond with Dr. Mycelium soon. He has cakes colonizing now. :grin:


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