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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Hunting and Identification
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Re: EXCLUSIVE: Psilocybe Moravica from Czechoslovakia [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #2270104 -

Roy Watling, who is the head of th Royal Botanic gardens in Edinburgh has been doing mushroom research in Thailand for many years.

I have something else to do right now so I will get back to you on that pont
mj

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Re: EXCLUSIVE: Psilocybe Moravica from Czechoslovakia [Re: canid]
    #2270481 -

Quote:
but, i believe the standard for classification should still give insight into the accessable features/distinctions between the specific taxons.


Hear, hear! All this genetic mumbo-jumbo is all good and well, and pretty darn interesting for people willing to invest enough time and capital (equipment) in it, but for the man in the street/field, it doesn't add much. I think the man in the field would be helped with an accessible and comprehensive system allowing him to at least partially identify and classify his finds without having to resort to complicated biochemical studies.
Of course, I do see the merits of deeper investigation, but let's not forget that the level of scientific knowledge of most Shroomery members simply doesn't extend that far.

Quote:
maybe this is the path of progress in what must need to be two fields afterall.


I agree whole-heartedly!

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Re: EXCLUSIVE: Psilocybe Moravica from Czechoslovakia [Re: koraks]
    #2272677 -

Those Czech mushroom are very cool. Could you tell me some information on them? At about what altitude did you find them? What substrate were they growing on? What time of the year?

I am interested in them because of their proximity to Poland, to which I travel annualy during the late spring/summer.

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Re: EXCLUSIVE: Psilocybe Moravica from Czechoslovakia [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #2274072 -

concretefeet - I understand and even partly share your reservations about taxonomic restructuring via molecular phylogenetics. However my interests are not really taxonomic. My interests are in using molecular phylogenies to understand processes of mushroom evolution.

There are many cases, however, where molecular data has been directly useful to field taxonomists - for example in showing that subtle morphological or habitat differences between conspecific collections noted by keen-eyed observers do in fact signify species differences, or the reverse case, where collectors have reported intermediate forms between established species, which molecular work then confirms to be conspecific. It is rare for species distinguished on molecular criteria to be indistinguishable morphologically. The major problem with molecule-informed taxonomy seems to be the constant reshuffling and renaming of taxa at all levels. But surely this is just a (very long) re-organizational phase? I suppose you might argue that this phase could be reduced to a short blast, if changes were held off until the molecular people have reached a more stable framework, but you should realise that (a) most of these molecular people are first and foremost mushroom taxonomists, and so their job satistfaction partly lies in rewriting Latin mushroom taxonomies, and (b) their sources of funding require this anyway.

MJShroomer - I had read about your current projects and look forward to the papers. I'm largely concentrating on the Psilocybe cyanescens species complex, so we do not overlap. In terms of DNA mushroom phylogenies, especially those concentrating on small clades of mushrooms, I think it's crucial to start using multiple unlinked gene regions to exhaustively corroborate hypotheses of relationships - what sequence data will you be using?

Lizard King - I'd be willing to look at what you have, if it's something that might be in or closely related to the Psilocybe cyanescens group?

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Re: EXCLUSIVE: Psilocybe Moravica from Czechoslovakia [Re: MagmaManiac]
    #2274163 -

>What time of the year?
Late Autumn.


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Grow Mushrooms from Spores - PF-Tek for Simple Minds

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Re: EXCLUSIVE: Psilocybe Moravica from Czechoslovakia [Re: Anno]
    #2282613 -

I can't imagine that astronomers would enjoy having their own discoveries rediscovered and potentially renamed so I don't expect mycologists to be any different.  This testing will just formalise things.  There is always a mild tension between MJ and BM but neither of you could ever say that you weren't good for each other :smile:

The whole confusion that could be created over home identification is perhaps a little premature.  You assume that care would not be taken in reclassification to classify things such that characteristics such as visual differentiation would not be noted.  Identification is not the only reason dna classification must exist.  It is however the only reason it shouldn't.

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Re: EXCLUSIVE: Psilocybe Moravica from Czechoslovakia [Re: pluteus]
    #2282693 -

harumph.
i can only see the benefits of the dna sequencing...these apparent incongruencies are merely phantoms... what the dna guys have given us thus far, as far as fruitbodies go, is simplification. what of craterellus fallax? merely cornucopioides in disguise. and the yellowish chanterelles? taxonomists know that here in the pnw we have several distinct species, do we then carry dna machines into the field to determine thier identity before picking? will the morphology of the mushrooms we know physically change? they don't taste any different when renamed. but in fact, the "renaming" will be relatively uncommon. new species will get names, some that don't deserve species status will simply merge into the synonyms. linguistically, taxonomy is prepared for this eventuality. and i wouldn't be surprised if the average mushroom hunter didn't notice any change in his mushrooms from year to year, regardless of what taxonomy says.
(as a pre-condition to this, i should say screw the armillarias.)

i wouldn't mind there being only three morels.

(this is just a general response to the ideas about how sequencing will affect us, not to you in particular, plute.)

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Re: EXCLUSIVE: Psilocybe Moravica from Czechoslovakia [Re: pluteus]
    #2283696 -

Pluteus ask MJ,
Quote:
"What sequence data will you be using?"



Mj replies,
Quote:
"DNA analysis we use ITS."


mj

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Re: EXCLUSIVE: Psilocybe Moravica from Czechoslovakia [Re: mjshroomer]
    #2307190 -

wow. yall's big brains are making my little brain hurt. :nut:


--------------------
hope i never hear surf music again...

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Re: EXCLUSIVE: Psilocybe Moravica from Czechoslovakia [Re: trollbaby]
    #2332197 -

Choice of DNA region(s) is of course a tradeoff between statistical rigour/practicality = scientific probity /time+money.

It would be reassuring to see more researchers ensuring that their chosen regions are multiple (+ unlinked + single copy in the case of protein genes), are appropriately variable, and are reconstructed sensibly. (MJ, using only ITS data - nu? mit? - to confidently resolve multiple between- species relationships....hmmm)

These issues aside, to draw firm taxonomic conclusions based on a finding that 0.0000001% of the genomes of a few samples have or have not diverged in a particular way is crazy. Yet this still happens.
The factors underlying uncertainty are also often misreported...

I wish there was a forum somewhere to discuss molecular mycology/ evolutionary mycology/ ecological mycology/ mycogenetics/ mycotaxonomy etc.etc. In other words, active mycological research! There always seems to be a flurry of interest whenever issues relating to these fields are touched on here. Is the Shroomery too amateur-oriented to support this type of thing? I have yet to find a decent purely academic online mycology forum, probably cos most active researchers are content with the journals+conferences+personal contacts system of networking ideas and information. But even less formal discussions about the hard science would eventually relate back and hopefully illuminate the issues concerning the majority of Shroomerites.
Or maybe it would just be totally crap.

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Re: EXCLUSIVE: Psilocybe Moravica from Czechoslovakia [Re: mjshroomer]
    #2333571 -

Living in what some would call an 'exotic' location and facing the prospect of, as a TOTAL noob, locating, identifying & making responsible use of some lesser known species... I'm glad such enthusiastic mycophiles are out there.

Many thanks for all your hard work and good advice (You will make some Czekoslovakian shroomers happier and safer as well as opening new possibilities for those in 'mainstream' locations)

Exciting stuff (maybe I don't understand the deeper implications, but I know a nice nipple when I see one... I could suck on one of those all night)


--------------------
Shrooms aren't everyone's cup of tea... (Some folks just eat 'em)

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Re: EXCLUSIVE: Psilocybe moravica from the Czech republic [Re: mjshroomer]
    #4787014 -

Today I harevested the first Psilocybe moravica I cultivated in Austria.


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Grow Mushrooms from Spores - PF-Tek for Simple Minds

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Re: EXCLUSIVE: Psilocybe moravica from the Czech republic [Re: Anno]
    #4787726 -

Will you come with pictures of all your woodlovers this year as well?

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Re: EXCLUSIVE: Psilocybe moravica from the Czech republic [Re: aaa]
    #4791431 -

I will try.

Psilocybe moravica



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Grow Mushrooms from Spores - PF-Tek for Simple Minds

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Re: EXCLUSIVE: Psilocybe moravica from the Czech republic [Re: Anno]
    #4791509 -

Good job! Are you having a dry fall in Austria as well?


--------------------
watchdominion.org

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Re: EXCLUSIVE: Psilocybe moravica from the Czech republic [Re: ivi]
    #4791519 -

No, it's rather rainy.


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Grow Mushrooms from Spores - PF-Tek for Simple Minds

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Re: EXCLUSIVE: Psilocybe moravica from the Czech republic [Re: Anno]
    #4792160 -

I thought it was spring there?

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Re: EXCLUSIVE: Psilocybe moravica from the Czech republic [Re: psiclops]
    #4792491 -

in Austria?
You are confusing Australia for Austria.


--------------------
Grow Mushrooms from Spores - PF-Tek for Simple Minds

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Re: EXCLUSIVE: Psilocybe moravica from the Czech republic [Re: Anno]
    #4792794 -

Yeah, I had. hey, nice gallery, by the way.

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Re: EXCLUSIVE: Psilocybe moravica from the Czech republic [Re: Anno]
    #4795455 -

Anno said:
I will try.

Psilocybe moravica





man those look like light skinned weilii, very similar caps, both hydophandous and nippled, similar stems and gills. where did you find those?


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:goose:

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Hunting and Identification
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