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InvisibleBattyKodaS
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous (Come and share thread) [Re: Doc9151]
    #26079281 - 06/28/19 01:24 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Melatonin, l Theanine, marijuana, and valerian root all have helped me sleep.


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A Man Must Learn To Sail In All Winds.:bliss: RIP ModestMouse & Big Worm:heart:

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Invisibleblazedandconfused
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous (Come and share thread) [Re: BattyKoda]
    #26108029 - 07/14/19 02:41 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Hello all, i posted in this thread 1 year 9 ,months ago and had a good run of " successful" drinking afterwards. I dont remember my last few drinks but have plenty of physical reminders of the aftermath. I woke up to an empty house (no wife or kid) and no clue wtf happened and that was my bottom.

I always blamed the drink but came to realize that I'm the problem. I knew what could be at stake with every drink and I took that gamble, went all in and lost my everything. This time I refused to say it will never happen again because my addiction knows my weaknesses and silently waits until the perfect moment to take control and wreak havoc.

I hit up a meeting because I had no other solution. I'm actively seeking a sponsor but so far haven't been successful but I refuse to accept defeat. Been to three meetings now and last night's put me in a dark place for a few reasons but I'll keep forcing myself to go even though I'm sick of hearing about our disease and how it afflicts us. Who knows maybe I'll say something that'll help the next guy make it thru the night.


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of all the things ive lost i miss my mind the most.

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InvisibleThayendanegea
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous (Come and share thread) [Re: blazedandconfused]
    #26111248 - 07/16/19 08:40 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

I messaged you and offered my suggestions, I hope you can find it deep down to try them. IME, drunks don't lose families or jobs, we give them away. We choose alcohol over them over and over until they stop giving us chances. I've seen men show up in court drunk for DUI hearings. I for one, grabbed a six pack at the closest store after a hearing for my 4th DUI that finished with all charges being dropped.

Alcoholism is fixed in the smarter part of our brain and we cannot out think it. It wins that battle in our heads over and over. We don't beat it or win the battle, we give up and say we lost...then ask a power greater than ourselves to step in and help. Many of us balk at this part because of the "God" thing. Mostly because they are confusing religiosity with spirituality. AA is a SPIRITUAL program NOT A RELIGIOUS one. It is about conceding defeat and realizing that no human power can save us....it must come from something bigger than ourselves.

I urge newcomers to read "The Doctors Opinion" in the pretext of the big book and also a page about spirituality in the back of the book entitled "Spiritual Experience"

Some people choose to use AA as  group therapy and refuse to concede that there is a power bigger than them....It's ok to use the group as a higher power....G.O.D. = Group of Drunks. For the peace of mind that the program offers, I had to work all the steps. I had to get a sponsor that had a working knowledge of them and could help me understand the big book because it was confusing to me at the beginning.

I also used the Serenity Prayer over and over in early recovery....first few years, because I was baffled and seemed to be overrun with problems that needed to be worked out.
I make no bones about it, this program saved my life and made it worth living...,...I have no doubt about that.


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Look Deep Into Nature,and Then You Will Understand Everything Better.

Albert Einstein

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InvisibleTheFakeSunRa
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous (Come and share thread) [Re: Thayendanegea] * 3
    #26111673 - 07/16/19 12:47 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

AA is a SPIRITUAL program NOT A RELIGIOUS one




That’s a lie. It’s not only religious, it’s complete evangelical bullshit.


Quote:

Without help it is too much for us. But there is One who has all power — that One is God. May you find Him now!




“All power” “Him” “God”

Three years sober. No fake ass higher power bullshit.

#onestep DON’T DRINK


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[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.

You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.

I disendorse you.[/quote]

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InvisibleThayendanegea
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous (Come and share thread) [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #26112223 - 07/16/19 05:04 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

....And a real fucked up attitude. That's the part of the program that you miss. Staying sober and being the same old miserable fuck that I was would have made me drink again. I mean, why bother?

This program is about changing. Obviously, you have not. Please tell me where in the text of the big book it says anything about Jesus Christ or any relation to the bible. Some Christians choose to use their God as a higher power but NOWHERE does it say you have to choose a Christian God. Jim Burwell made sure of that by adding the (as you understand him) after any reference to God in the steps.

All that is needed is some power and being able to admit it has more than yourself.

How are your steps coming FSA? Just curious if you've ever even really read the big book.


--------------------
Look Deep Into Nature,and Then You Will Understand Everything Better.

Albert Einstein

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OfflineEnjoywho
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous (Come and share thread) [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #26112250 - 07/16/19 05:17 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

TheFakeSunRa said:
Quote:

AA is a SPIRITUAL program NOT A RELIGIOUS one




That’s a lie. It’s not only religious, it’s complete evangelical bullshit.


Quote:

Without help it is too much for us. But there is One who has all power — that One is God. May you find Him now!




“All power” “Him” “God”

Three years sober. No fake ass higher power bullshit.

#onestep DON’T DRINK




Ya I don't care for the god shit either. Why i quit going. They'd probably have a higher rate of keeping people if they just got rid of that entire part tbh.


--------------------
"I don't give nothin' to nobody, I just pay the cost to do business." - Riley "Young Reezy"-Boondocks

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

"In the days of kings and queens I was a jester."

"And then the great lord created bears... too many bears... shoulda really dialed back on the bears." Squidbillies

"Can you start speaking words instead of your damn filthy lies!"- Louise "Bobs Burgers"

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Anonymous #18

Re: Alcoholics Anonymous (Come and share thread) [Re: Enjoywho]
    #26112256 - 07/16/19 05:22 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Enjoywho said:
Quote:

TheFakeSunRa said:
Quote:

AA is a SPIRITUAL program NOT A RELIGIOUS one




That’s a lie. It’s not only religious, it’s complete evangelical bullshit.


Quote:

Without help it is too much for us. But there is One who has all power — that One is God. May you find Him now!




“All power” “Him” “God”

Three years sober. No fake ass higher power bullshit.

#onestep DON’T DRINK




Ya I don't care for the god shit either. Why i quit going. They'd probably have a higher rate of keeping people if they just got rid of that entire part tbh.



AA is mostly dying. Its antiquated methodology for quitting drinking has a terrible success rate a much better program is SMART recovery it uses real science and doesn't try to push religion on you.

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OfflineEnjoywho
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous (Come and share thread) [Re: Anonymous #18]
    #26112347 - 07/16/19 06:04 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Makes sense. I went in the beginning just to have something to do other then drink. After a while though don't really need it anymore. I just don't drink. Pretty simple.


--------------------
"I don't give nothin' to nobody, I just pay the cost to do business." - Riley "Young Reezy"-Boondocks

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

"In the days of kings and queens I was a jester."

"And then the great lord created bears... too many bears... shoulda really dialed back on the bears." Squidbillies

"Can you start speaking words instead of your damn filthy lies!"- Louise "Bobs Burgers"

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Anonymous #18

Re: Alcoholics Anonymous (Come and share thread) [Re: Enjoywho]
    #26112350 - 07/16/19 06:05 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Enjoywho said:
Makes sense. I went in the beginning just to have something to do other then drink. After a while though don't really need it anymore. I just don't drink. Pretty simple.



Exactly thats all it takes for most people. For those who are physically addicted they need to dry out in hospital setting. Most people aren't physically addicted to drinking thats another lie AA pushes since they want you to be a perpetual victim.

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InvisibleTheFakeSunRa
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous (Come and share thread) [Re: Thayendanegea] * 1
    #26112455 - 07/16/19 06:56 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

This program is about changing. Obviously, you have not




Neither have you. You still believe in space ghost bullshit and I still don’t.

The change is about not drinking. If I needed religion I’d go to church.


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[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.

You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.

I disendorse you.[/quote]

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Invisibleblazedandconfused
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous (Come and share thread) [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #26112846 - 07/16/19 10:10 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

I could poke holes in any way of life, you name it. I don't know about the meetings in other places but I have not had anyone try to force feed me any religion where I meet currently.

For me it's not as simple as don't drink but that may be the case for some. What I will not do is say what doesn't work for me will not work for anyone else or my way is the only way. The way I see AA is it's a support system where I can be brutally honest with myself and others and vice versa.

Seems to be alot of pride here in this thread lately and I hope it doesn't get anyone hurt.


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of all the things ive lost i miss my mind the most.

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InvisibleBumholio
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous (Come and share thread) [Re: blazedandconfused]
    #26113002 - 07/17/19 12:12 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

I've probably said this here before but AA wasnt for me either. Specifically the spiritual side of it. That's not to say I think AA is shite, it's just not for me. AA works and has worked for a lot of people and helped them get and stay sober and that is the most important thing.

Ill never talk shit about AA, but one thing I do find though is some AA members (definitely not all) push AA as the only option for getting sober. I used to be on a Facebook page for alcoholics, it wasnt specifically an AA page, but people would post on there reaching out, looking advice, help or just finally admitting their drinking was a problem. Guaranteed the first comment (and probably the next 5 after it) was "go to a meeting". Not once did I see in the first few comments to speak to their GP or to find out about any community addiction programs in their area. Not even any words of support. Maybe that's just the nature of Facebook though:shrug:

There isn't a one size fits all for getting sober. Try everything that's on offer find what works for you


--------------------


"great things may come to those who wait, but only what's left by those who hustle"

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InvisibleTheFakeSunRa
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous (Come and share thread) [Re: blazedandconfused] * 2
    #26113171 - 07/17/19 04:47 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

I have not had anyone try to force feed me any religion where I meet currently.




So your meeting doesn’t read how it works?


--------------------
[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.

You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.

I disendorse you.[/quote]

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InvisibleThayendanegea
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous (Come and share thread) [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #26113561 - 07/17/19 09:25 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

AA is mostly dying. Its antiquated methodology for quitting drinking has a terrible success rate a much better program is SMART recovery it uses real science and doesn't try to push religion on you.



Lol, AA  is not dying. My friend went to Atlanta a few years ago for the world conference....there were representatives there from over 90 countries.

A lot of people here think of AA as a cult of sorts. It is certainly not.
I agree it is not for everyone. It is simply for those of us who have tried other remedies with our own will power and failed repeatedly. It is for those of us who are willing to go to any length. God and AA saved my life and made it worth living.
All of the Promises
Quote:

The AA Promises
1. If we are painstaking about this phase of our development, we will be amazed
before we are half way through.
2. We are going to know a new freedom and a new happiness.
3. We will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it.
4. We will comprehend the word serenity and we will know peace.
5. No matter how far down the scale we have gone, we will see how our experience
can benefit others.
6. That feeling of uselessness and self-pity will disappear.
7. We will lose interest in selfish things and gain interest in our fellows.
8. Self-seeking will slip away.
9. Our whole attitude and outlook upon life will change.
10. Fear of people and of economic insecurity will leave us.
11. We will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us.
12. We will suddenly realize that God is doing for us what we could not do for
ourselves
Are these extravagant promises? We think not. They are being fulfilled among us -
sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly. They will always materialize if we work for them.
Alcoholics Anonymous p83-84


Have come true because I apply the steps to my life as best as I can.

I truly wish everyone that has this affliction a sober today.:sunny::peace:


--------------------
Look Deep Into Nature,and Then You Will Understand Everything Better.

Albert Einstein

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OfflineCjmckay
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous (Come and share thread) [Re: Thayendanegea] * 1
    #26113658 - 07/17/19 10:21 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

"Some people choose to use AA as  group therapy and refuse to concede that there is a power bigger than them"

That's the whole problem for me. Why not a support group without the dogma?


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InvisibleThayendanegea
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous (Come and share thread) [Re: Cjmckay]
    #26113898 - 07/17/19 12:00 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

I'm sure there are some out there...most treatment programs have 6 month aftercare where you go to a circle type meeting once a week after you are released. Most of them recommend AA when they are done though. AA doesn't cost a thing and most of these aftercare meetings may cost 50-$100 per session. AA doesn't need to be modified because it works just like it is.


--------------------
Look Deep Into Nature,and Then You Will Understand Everything Better.

Albert Einstein

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InvisibleTheFakeSunRa
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous (Come and share thread) [Re: Thayendanegea] * 1
    #26113911 - 07/17/19 12:06 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

There’s no data on AA’s effectiveness.


--------------------
[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.

You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.

I disendorse you.[/quote]

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Anonymous #18

Re: Alcoholics Anonymous (Come and share thread) [Re: TheFakeSunRa] * 1
    #26113937 - 07/17/19 12:15 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

TheFakeSunRa said:
There’s no data on AA’s effectiveness.



The success rate is in the single digits.

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InvisibleThayendanegea
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous (Come and share thread) [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #26113986 - 07/17/19 12:32 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Again, try reading the big book. In particular, the forewords to each edition. The program started in 1939...By the time the second edition came out in 1955, there were 6,000 groups and approx. 150,000 recovered alcoholics.
By the third edition which came out in 1976 (this is the big book that I have and got sober with) there were 28,000 groups in 90 countries with an estimated >1,000,000 members. A survey was then done in 1990 where AA had grown to 88,000 groups in 134 countries of which 1/3 were women and 1/5  were 30 and under.
By the 4th edition (2011)there were 150,000 groups and an estimated 2,000,000 members around the world...the big book is now printed in 62 languages.

Also, AA, and in particular it's co-founder Bill Wilson was voted by Time magazine as one of the worlds top 100 most  influential people of the 20th century.

This really is a miraculous program FSR, you should give it a try. If you put 1/2 of the energy that you do by disputing it's worth into honestly working the steps, you would be very surprised by the outcome.

Dr. Bob, who was the co-founder of AA used to write prescriptions to struggling alcoholics that said:
Trust God
Clean House
Help others
This is the basis of the 12 steps....nothing complicated or anywhere near harmful.

I see my dependence on a higher power, which I choose to call God, as a strength.....not a weakness.:sunny::peace:


--------------------
Look Deep Into Nature,and Then You Will Understand Everything Better.

Albert Einstein

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OfflineCjmckay
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous (Come and share thread) [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26114066 - 07/17/19 01:07 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
I don't think I'm an alcoholic. I don't even think about drinking during the work week. On the weekends I get legally drunk but never sloppy, staggering or sick.  I have had severe problems sleeping most of my life since early childhood. I had a sleeping pill addiction and hit bottom 2 years ago. When my money ran out I was drinking a case of beer a day trying to sleep and that only worked a couple times in the last 3 months of that run. Even during this bad time my friends all said I was causing no problems to anyone else; just myself.

I have some permanent physical effects from extremely long prolonged lack of sleep. My counselor at that time said these were withdrawl symptoms. My doctor and I disagree. When I had the crisis my doctor said don't drink and switched me from ambien to temazepam. Once my life got stabilized and returned to full time working I told my counselor that I didn't think I was an alcoholic and I wasn't drinking because I couldn't afford it. Last August I went to a concert and drank for the first time in 10 months. A month later I got a sizable pay raise and started social drinking on weekends. Now after a year and a half it looks like I'm building up a tolerance to temazepam and I'm sleeping less.

I've considered going to NA to discuss the problem but 10 of the 12 steps make no sense to the way I think. My only higher power is the universe and I have no spiritual beliefs whatsoever.  I can't make any sense out of surrendering my self to the universe, or that surrendering myself to anything is the proper course to deal with my problem. I believe in science period. I am an existentialist, and that doesn't lead to happiness, but I believe that any other way of looking at things is self-delusion.  I can see how the steps would be effective for people who believe in God.

I have been trying to practice mindfulness, which I think was the only useful thing I got from my counselor. But I seem to be getting diminishing returns from meditation.




That not sleeping shit is horrific. I've been through opiate withdrawals where I wouldn't be able to sleep for a month before I threw in the towel.

I used mindfulness meditation to get out from under my addiction. Using your breath to slow down your nervous system enough to see what's going on inside. I wouldn't have had anything to do with it thinking it was some kind of spiritual stuff, until I started reading about neuroplasticity and the whole physical response of breathing techniques.

Once I dealt with the psychic pain, the need for intoxicants dwindled.

But I feel some of your pain. Not sleeping well drives me crazy.


--------------------

Edited by Cjmckay (07/17/19 01:09 PM)

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