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InvisibleTheFakeSunRa
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous (Come and share thread) [Re: Enjoywho] * 1
    #24470373 - 07/09/17 02:47 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

You feel like that because you're sick. Your mind is playing tricks on you because of all the booze it's soaking up. Put the plug in the jug let some time pass and you'll be right as rain. Once you dry up then you can focus on the healing. If you ain't dead it ain't over. You can get back to caring about yourself. I'm dried out pretty damn close to a year. My brain is still, uh, my brain lol, it's a lot to overcome, like me, you might have some mental shit beyond your addiction. But once you dry out you can work on it.


--------------------
[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.

You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.

I disendorse you.[/quote]


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OfflineEnjoywho
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous (Come and share thread) [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #24470448 - 07/09/17 03:14 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

You're right. Absolutely. Thanks for listening.


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InvisibleThayendanegea
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous (Come and share thread) [Re: Enjoywho]
    #24472346 - 07/10/17 11:19 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

You seem to put a lot of dependence on other people for your happiness. People have clay feet. Have you tried asking your higher power for help?
Just a little prayer like "Please help me to get sober and to do your will"I still say that every morning and this is what the "program" of AA is about. If you have a big book....try reading page 45. Also read pg. 417 in 4th edition...it will help you with control issues.

FSR hit it when he said to get to a meeting and to get a hold of your sponsor. Also, you may want to think about a 28 day program to get you stopped at least for a few weeks. Treatment centers are also a pathway for addiction counselors if you stay there for awhile and show the right qualities.

There is an online big book available at the beginning of this thread if you don't have one. Try to find a sponsor that will help you with this text because that is where the freedom from bondage of alcohol comes from. Like FSR said, don't think of yourself as a bad person...think of yourself as a sick person....with an allergy to alcohol.AA is a program where you surrender to win...It sounds like you are there. I have no doubt in my mind that alcohol beat me....I lost the battle over and over...when you concede, the solution begins to slip into the equation.:hug:


--------------------
Look Deep Into Nature,and Then You Will Understand Everything Better.

Albert Einstein


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OfflineAnatoly
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous (Come and share thread) [Re: Thayendanegea]
    #24477417 - 07/12/17 08:13 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Thayendanegea said:
You seem to put a lot of dependence on other people for your happiness. People have clay feet. Have you tried asking your higher power for help?
Just a little prayer like "Please help me to get sober and to do your will"I still say that every morning and this is what the "program" of AA is about. If you have a big book....try reading page 45. Also read pg. 417 in 4th edition...it will help you with control issues.

FSR hit it when he said to get to a meeting and to get a hold of your sponsor. Also, you may want to think about a 28 day program to get you stopped at least for a few weeks. Treatment centers are also a pathway for addiction counselors if you stay there for awhile and show the right qualities.

There is an online big book available at the beginning of this thread if you don't have one. Try to find a sponsor that will help you with this text because that is where the freedom from bondage of alcohol comes from. Like FSR said, don't think of yourself as a bad person...think of yourself as a sick person....with an allergy to alcohol.AA is a program where you surrender to win...It sounds like you are there. I have no doubt in my mind that alcohol beat me....I lost the battle over and over...when you concede, the solution begins to slip into the equation.:hug:



Quote:

Thayendanegea said:
You seem to put a lot of dependence on other people for your happiness. People have clay feet. Have you tried asking your higher power for help?
Just a little prayer like "Please help me to get sober and to do your will"I still say that every morning and this is what the "program" of AA is about. If you have a big book....try reading page 45. Also read pg. 417 in 4th edition...it will help you with control issues.

FSR hit it when he said to get to a meeting and to get a hold of your sponsor. Also, you may want to think about a 28 day program to get you stopped at least for a few weeks. Treatment centers are also a pathway for addiction counselors if you stay there for awhile and show the right qualities.

There is an online big book available at the beginning of this thread if you don't have one. Try to find a sponsor that will help you with this text because that is where the freedom from bondage of alcohol comes from. Like FSR said, don't think of yourself as a bad person...think of yourself as a sick person....with an allergy to alcohol.AA is a program where you surrender to win...It sounds like you are there. I have no doubt in my mind that alcohol beat me....I lost the battle over and over...when you concede, the solution begins to slip into the equation.:hug:





Well said.......


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InvisibleTheFakeSunRa
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous (Come and share thread) [Re: Anatoly]
    #24481603 - 07/13/17 10:36 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

I'm not going to be posting in this thread anymore.

My final word is if alcohol is fucking up your life stop drinking. It's a paradox because it's not that simple but actually it is that simple. It really is cunning, baffling, and powerful. It can't hurt you if you don't drink it but it can haunt you like a fucking ghost. Not one of the steps say don't drink. Paradox. I hate alcohol because I love alcohol. Paradox. It's fucking nuts. I'm going at it alone and the only step I care about is the step that never was. Don't drink.

Peace.


--------------------
[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.

You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.

I disendorse you.[/quote]


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OfflineEnjoywho
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous (Come and share thread) [Re: Thayendanegea]
    #24481936 - 07/14/17 01:58 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Thayendanegea said:
You seem to put a lot of dependence on other people for your happiness. People have clay feet. Have you tried asking your higher power for help?
Just a little prayer like "Please help me to get sober and to do your will"I still say that every morning and this is what the "program" of AA is about. If you have a big book....try reading page 45. Also read pg. 417 in 4th edition...it will help you with control issues.

FSR hit it when he said to get to a meeting and to get a hold of your sponsor. Also, you may want to think about a 28 day program to get you stopped at least for a few weeks. Treatment centers are also a pathway for addiction counselors if you stay there for awhile and show the right qualities.

There is an online big book available at the beginning of this thread if you don't have one. Try to find a sponsor that will help you with this text because that is where the freedom from bondage of alcohol comes from. Like FSR said, don't think of yourself as a bad person...think of yourself as a sick person....with an allergy to alcohol.AA is a program where you surrender to win...It sounds like you are there. I have no doubt in my mind that alcohol beat me....I lost the battle over and over...when you concede, the solution begins to slip into the equation.:hug:




I don't believe in a higher power. My dependance is on other people you're not wrong. But I get It an old timer at our group like 30 years clean had a sponsor that took him to a park and said pick any one of them. Why? Well that will be your higher power. It's an ambiguous thought that it doesn't matter what it is.

I'm trying to float myself through this but I did lose my job and that's just stress and more time that I have to sit around and drink.

When I did get some 30 and odd days clean I was up at 7 am for work off at 5 than worked with my painter friend until 2 am. rinse repeat. That's what kept me sober was being busy. All the time. Learning new things being invited to cook out or go roam the mountains where we run into black bears.

Loneliness Is my thing I left my home in alaska to quit heroin. Started drinking it was never my first choice at all. I know far better drugs but I'm clean of all of them now. I wake up just rolling around and wanting to sweat it out more.

Since my last post I can't seem to shake this one. It's been brutal and i've been trying to taper but I'm shaky all the fucking time. I can't look at people but once you get me laughing and releasing endorphins yes I can. That's why i'm such a comedian I love to make people laugh. 

So that's depressing and stressful. I have one month to stop shaking and get a job easily or back on the streets for me. I just want to stop shaking and no matter how much I eat or how many multi vitamins I take or water I drink I just wan't to be who I am. I've cried quite a few times over it while rolling from side to side.

I always pray to any god that will listen. Please make it stop, kill me, or let me sleep. Please.

and yes I own a big book and a 12x12 it's what I make sure to carry around with me.


Oh ya all the detox and 28 day programs require cash. money. In a small town of addicts. They don't take our insurance. So you're left to suffer on you're own even if you would just like to chill out for a second. Get sober. Jail would be your best choice I suppose. But that's definitely not free.

Rehab should be free most countries are adopting it around the world. But we're a capitalist nation so :shrug:

This has been a bad detox for me and I did look into it. I can't afford to go 5 grand in debt drinking is far cheaper.


--------------------
"I don't give nothin' to nobody, I just pay the cost to do business." - Riley "Young Reezy"-Boondocks

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

"In the days of kings and queens I was a jester."

"And then the great lord created bears... too many bears... shoulda really dialed back on the bears." Squidbillies

"Can you start speaking words instead of your damn filthy lies!"- Louise "Bobs Burgers"


Edited by Enjoywho (07/14/17 02:51 AM)


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OfflineEnjoywho
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous (Come and share thread) [Re: Enjoywho]
    #24481963 - 07/14/17 02:43 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

delete irrelevant.


--------------------
"I don't give nothin' to nobody, I just pay the cost to do business." - Riley "Young Reezy"-Boondocks

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

"In the days of kings and queens I was a jester."

"And then the great lord created bears... too many bears... shoulda really dialed back on the bears." Squidbillies

"Can you start speaking words instead of your damn filthy lies!"- Louise "Bobs Burgers"


Edited by Enjoywho (07/14/17 02:56 AM)


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OfflineNear Dylan
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous (Come and share thread) [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #24482072 - 07/14/17 06:13 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

TheFakeSunRa said:
I'm not going to be posting in this thread anymore.




youll be back


--------------------


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InvisibleThayendanegea
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous (Come and share thread) [Re: Enjoywho] * 1
    #24482295 - 07/14/17 08:54 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

This has been a bad detox for me and I did look into it. I can't afford to go 5 grand in debt drinking is far cheaper.




5 grand is nothing compared to a life free of addictions. I don't get you, all you seem to do is make excuses for your addictions.You trade one for another....yes, working around the clock to avoid addictions is addictive behavior.
If you spent half the time searching out meetings or finding ways to get to them as you do pitying yourself for the condition you are in let alone buying more of whatever your poison is....you'd already have a foundation laid to the recovery process.

You want to be an addictions counselor but you don't want to do the things that you need to do to get there. I'm sorry if I sound harsh but I would much rather piss someone off than hear of their death. This is a fucked up disease that wants you dead...once you got its yours forever. There is no reasoning your way out of it.

I urge you to reach out to any local meeting and introduce yourself as someone who is struggling badly and needs help with rides to meetings.
You can check with AA intergroup for meetings in your area and the times...If you tell them your situation (intergroup) They will have someone pick you up and take you to a meeting.
Someone told me something that really stuck with me...A drunks worst company is himself, alone. If you want to talk...you can call me...just shoot me a pm.
Did you know that just helping someone or some thing, even a very minuscule thing like holding a door for someone ...is a spiritual act? THese little acts add up and keep your mind off of yourself.

It is said that alcoholics are selfish, self-centered people ...I know I was...it just takes a real will to want to stop and baby steps...you have already done your first step...the rest is going to take a lot of effort and it's up to you if you want to do it.


--------------------
Look Deep Into Nature,and Then You Will Understand Everything Better.

Albert Einstein


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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous (Come and share thread) [Re: Thayendanegea] * 1
    #24482328 - 07/14/17 09:13 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

hey everyone, my name is conn and im an addict

i dont usually like to share in things like this but i have been to several hundred meetings in my days prob at least 300 in total of both AA and NA

i just want to say that all of this, the whole idea of it all is really about living a life you can be proud of and support yourself with

its not about the steps, the drinking, the drugs, its about to problems we all face

its about the depression, the anxiety, the guilt, the shame, the way we hurt others, the way we cant control ourselves and most of all the pain we all experience

if you want a better life you need to find out why your so unhappy with the life you currently have

you need to identify your problems piece by piece and you need to analyze the environment and relationships that those problems grow around

you need to change your life sometimes drastically and remove negative environments, behaviors and relationships

it took me years to realize how screwed up i was going back to my childhood and that even though i didnt start using because of my problems specifically that it quickly evolved into a cure-all for anything i didnt want to fix or change

i would just stick a dollar in my nose or a needle in my arm and all those problems melted away instantly

today i work on my problems every day and take every moment to make things as best they can be, and doing this all has taken some gigantic changes in my life that were sometimes very difficult to make

i still use drugs and drink and i dont pretend to be sober but i do know im my heart today im much much happier with who i am and have a much much clearer idea for a positive and progressive future for myself

i dont stick a needle in my arm anymore and i very very rarely stick a dollar in my nose anymore

i faced what i had been running away from my entire life, all the problems i never got honest with myself about

today i live a much healthier and happier life and i care about my future, i care about my diet and my health today and i care about the company i keep and my relationship with my family

getting away from a crippling addiction can cause anyone to go temporarily insane for weeks months or sometimes years, this is very common and normal and it happened to me

thankfully ive screwed my head back on a bit and am no longer going totally nuts every day

thanks for letting me share everyone, i hope yall are able to find some peace in your days on this earth in this body we have been given by god

peace to you all:heart:


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OfflineEnjoywho
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous (Come and share thread) [Re: Thayendanegea]
    #24483012 - 07/14/17 02:38 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Thayendanegea said:
Quote:

This has been a bad detox for me and I did look into it. I can't afford to go 5 grand in debt drinking is far cheaper.




5 grand is nothing compared to a life free of addictions. I don't get you, all you seem to do is make excuses for your addictions.You trade one for another....yes, working around the clock to avoid addictions is addictive behavior.
If you spent half the time searching out meetings or finding ways to get to them as you do pitying yourself for the condition you are in let alone buying more of whatever your poison is....you'd already have a foundation laid to the recovery process.

You want to be an addictions counselor but you don't want to do the things that you need to do to get there. I'm sorry if I sound harsh but I would much rather piss someone off than hear of their death. This is a fucked up disease that wants you dead...once you got its yours forever. There is no reasoning your way out of it.

I urge you to reach out to any local meeting and introduce yourself as someone who is struggling badly and needs help with rides to meetings.
You can check with AA intergroup for meetings in your area and the times...If you tell them your situation (intergroup) They will have someone pick you up and take you to a meeting.
Someone told me something that really stuck with me...A drunks worst company is himself, alone. If you want to talk...you can call me...just shoot me a pm.
Did you know that just helping someone or some thing, even a very minuscule thing like holding a door for someone ...is a spiritual act? THese little acts add up and keep your mind off of yourself.

It is said that alcoholics are selfish, self-centered people ...I know I was...it just takes a real will to want to stop and baby steps...you have already done your first step...the rest is going to take a lot of effort and it's up to you if you want to do it.




Of course I do make excuses. I'm an addict.

You aren't wrong and it seems you're just quoting the big book. They told me to outline and write in it while I read it. What you mean like everything? The whole book applies to me.

That's why i'm not too sad about losing my job working 7 pm to 7 am. I could never make a group as the times didn't line up. I'd like to make some new sober friends. It was the best thing I did in montana and I learned quite a few skills as well to keep me busy.

I am an absolute addict. Of that I have no doubt. I can read a 900 page book in 2 days if the first couple pages hook me. If it isn't alcohol it's salt, sugar, and food. It was actually costing me more as a sober person than an alcoholic. :lol: I wasn't saving shit I know who I am as a person and I get super into things than get bored and toss them away. Ask any of the many girls i've dated since I left home.

I won't even shed a tear over it. I always lay down the ground rules. This is who I am now and this is Who I used to be. I don't like to lie. All though I do all the time I call it story telling however.


--------------------
"I don't give nothin' to nobody, I just pay the cost to do business." - Riley "Young Reezy"-Boondocks

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

"In the days of kings and queens I was a jester."

"And then the great lord created bears... too many bears... shoulda really dialed back on the bears." Squidbillies

"Can you start speaking words instead of your damn filthy lies!"- Louise "Bobs Burgers"


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous (Come and share thread) [Re: Enjoywho]
    #24484433 - 07/15/17 04:25 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Man, dieing from alcohol is not the way to go.  I always thought you would just black out and not wake up one morning.  It is hella more complicated than that.  The dreams and waking up "seizures" are horrific.

I started drinking again after December's episode because I screwed up my back.  Had a few xanax's, 75 in total I think.  My missus (sober) started looking at me funny so I decided to cut back and bam!  Drinking may kill you but quitting definately will.  I probably should have hit the er but I weaned myself.

Here's the thing, I still want a drink.  Ive been drinking longer than I haven't in this life.  I did quit cigarettes though, so that's good.  I figured I would post here as a count reset, back to zero.

Word of warning, "kindling" would have it that after a certain point you can go 20 years without a drink and as soon as you pick it up again the wd's pick up right where they left off.  They don't reset.

Here's to one more day. -:peace:


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:


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OfflineEnjoywho
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous (Come and share thread) [Re: Amanita86]
    #24485104 - 07/15/17 01:04 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Amanita86 said:
Man, dieing from alcohol is not the way to go.  I always thought you would just black out and not wake up one morning.  It is hella more complicated than that.  The dreams and waking up "seizures" are horrific.

I started drinking again after December's episode because I screwed up my back.  Had a few xanax's, 75 in total I think.  My missus (sober) started looking at me funny so I decided to cut back and bam!  Drinking may kill you but quitting definately will.  I probably should have hit the er but I weaned myself.

Here's the thing, I still want a drink.  Ive been drinking longer than I haven't in this life.  I did quit cigarettes though, so that's good.  I figured I would post here as a count reset, back to zero.

Word of warning, "kindling" would have it that after a certain point you can go 20 years without a drink and as soon as you pick it up again the wd's pick up right where they left off.  They don't reset.

Here's to one more day. -:peace:





No shit my friend. I hit wd's in 2 days of drinking.

The dreams. God they're always scary and I'm always being chased. But they're so bright and vivid. I wish I could draw the complexity of them.

Last dream I had I was walking with a friend in the pitch black. Than I noticed something stalking us. A fucking tiger gets him and i'm already running and I hide. He's just trying to not be eaten and I thought to myself. I should help. Than I ran and woke up.

My mind in alcohol delusion can fill a small town of brightly colored different people. Mostly beautiful girls.

Best of luck my friend :cheers:


--------------------
"I don't give nothin' to nobody, I just pay the cost to do business." - Riley "Young Reezy"-Boondocks

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

"In the days of kings and queens I was a jester."

"And then the great lord created bears... too many bears... shoulda really dialed back on the bears." Squidbillies

"Can you start speaking words instead of your damn filthy lies!"- Louise "Bobs Burgers"


Edited by Enjoywho (07/15/17 01:06 PM)


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous (Come and share thread) [Re: Enjoywho]
    #24490838 - 07/18/17 02:13 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

I can always tell I'm getting into bad territory because there will be wasps and spiders or snakes etc.  And it hurts when they sting or bite you.

I had this two layer inception sort of dream a few weeks ago.  I was awake laying on my bed thinking about stuff like I always do, lucid and real as I am right now.  My missus was sleeping beside me and she leaned over behind me as if she was reaching for something on the night stand and it confused me so I looked over to where she was sleeping and she was still there. 

I remember saying "what the fuck" in an angered way because I knew that instant I was still in a dream.  And that's when it all got weird because the dream knew I knew it was a dream.  I've gotten so used to it I can usually tell and then all the lucid factors come into play.

Anyways they started tormenting me so I did what I do to snap out of lucid dreams and one had a grip on me so I threw it a pistol and said "fuckin kill yourself" because I knew I was about to get out and the strangest thing happened, as soon as I really woke up there was a pop in my ear like it really did kill itself.  Usually it doesnt transfer over like that in real life.

There's also two recurring dreams that involve electrocution and these sort of robot terminator robots similar to the drones in Oblivion where if I die in the dream I die in real life.  I havent died yet but in the dream it's solid fact, if I die in the dream, I really die.

It gets really, really out there..


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:


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OfflineEnjoywho
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous (Come and share thread) [Re: Amanita86]
    #24494275 - 07/19/17 02:22 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Alcohol delusion is no joke man. I've been doing it for about 4 years when I quit heroin. I just want to sleep but it's just 20 minutes of sleep and dreaming. I do love the dreams but man It's terrifying shit.

And the talking to yourself never stops. I have things happen that I can't tell whether they're fact or fiction anymore. So many times i've been sitting there thinking did that actually happen? No I don't believe so?


--------------------
"I don't give nothin' to nobody, I just pay the cost to do business." - Riley "Young Reezy"-Boondocks

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

"In the days of kings and queens I was a jester."

"And then the great lord created bears... too many bears... shoulda really dialed back on the bears." Squidbillies

"Can you start speaking words instead of your damn filthy lies!"- Louise "Bobs Burgers"


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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous (Come and share thread) [Re: Enjoywho]
    #24502953 - 07/23/17 01:59 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

how much do you guys end up drinking in a bender? even back in my deep bottle days the worst i would endure was some strobe like vision in the morning and things morphing a bit. would regularly consume around a liter of hard proof alcohol during that time.

never had the shakes and rarely a puking session (that has been more common the following afternoon now that i am not a youngin). alcohol has always numbed me from dreaming but regularly i am a fairly lucid dreamer.

back on the wagon, day 3 here. feeling pretty good, managed to buy the new house, should be signing closing paperwork on the old house this week and getting paid out from that. have a job i enjoy for the most part, lots of projects to do around the new place.

was super stressed out and was drinking too much over the last 6 weeks or so. I can always tell when i want to drink my entire days off that i should slow down. just started running again and stretching/working out is next.

one thing i have found is i really crave flavor. i love all kinds of bitters (yes it has alcohol in it but im not worried about a dash, i also taste alcohol at work) but a tonic water with rhubarb bitters and a splash of pomegranate really helps with that habit of coming home and making a drink after work.

anyways best of luck to those of us fighting the good fight and same to thought helping us even thought they have their battle one.


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InvisibleThayendanegea
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous (Come and share thread) [Re: ReposadoXochipilli]
    #24505064 - 07/24/17 02:01 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

I lost the fight, that's how I stay stopped. It's much easier to surrender than to fight the good, bad, or indifferent fight. If you are alcoholic, there is no winning the war...maybe some of the battles but they just get more and more intense.

Throwing the towel in and surrendering was the best decision I have ever made in my life....See Spot run, Thay can't drink.


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Look Deep Into Nature,and Then You Will Understand Everything Better.

Albert Einstein


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OfflineJustForToday
New Life, New Beginnings


Registered: 09/08/14
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous (Come and share thread) [Re: Thayendanegea] * 2
    #24505158 - 07/24/17 02:53 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

2 Months back in the program. Hi Shroomery.


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Hey Shae, Are you still doing that hand thing? I heard you was doing that hand thing today. Oh God what is that?!



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InvisibleThayendanegea
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous (Come and share thread) [Re: JustForToday] * 2
    #24506742 - 07/25/17 08:51 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Hey JFT....good to see you back.:hug:


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Look Deep Into Nature,and Then You Will Understand Everything Better.

Albert Einstein


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InvisibleIbex-Trismegistus
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Posts: 863
Re: Alcoholics Anonymous (Come and share thread) [Re: Thayendanegea]
    #24506764 - 07/25/17 09:08 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

(Founder of AA, Bill Wilson, and LSD)
In the 1950s Wilson used LSD in medically supervised experiments with Betty Eisner, Gerald Heard, and Aldous Huxley. With Wilson's invitation, his wife Lois, his spiritual adviser Father Ed Dowling, and Nell Wing also participated in experimentation of this drug. Later Wilson wrote to Carl Jung, praising the results and recommending it as validation of Jung's spiritual experience. (The letter was not in fact sent as Jung had died.)[32] According to Wilson, the session allowed him to re-experience a spontaneous spiritual experience he had had years before, which had enabled him to overcome his own alcoholism.

Bill was enthusiastic about his experience; he felt it helped him eliminate many barriers erected by the self, or ego, that stand in the way of one's direct experience of the cosmos and of God. He thought he might have found something that could make a big difference to the lives of many who still suffered. Bill is quoted as saying: "It is a generally acknowledged fact in spiritual development that ego reduction makes the influx of God's grace possible. If, therefore, under LSD we can have a temporary reduction, so that we can better see what we are and where we are going — well, that might be of some help. The goal might become clearer. So I consider LSD to be of some value to some people, and practically no damage to anyone. It will never take the place of any of the existing means by which we can reduce the ego, and keep it reduced."[33] Wilson felt that regular usage of LSD in a carefully controlled, structured setting would be beneficial for many recovering alcoholics. However, he felt this method only should be attempted by individuals with well-developed super-egos.[34]

In 1957 Wilson wrote a letter to Heard saying: "I am certain that the LSD experiment has helped me very much. I find myself with a heightened colour perception and an appreciation of beauty almost destroyed by my years of depressions." Most AAs were strongly opposed to his experimenting with a mind-altering substance
-wikipedia




Quote:

Then there are drugs which reinforce obsessive, unexamined and self-destructive behavior patterns. Well what do psychedelics do?They destroy behavior patterns, they destroy cultural assumptions. Completely hold everything up for grabs, completely throw open the possibility that reality canBe any number of ways that are not culturally sanctioned.In that sense the psychedelics are almost the answer to the drug problem. The early use of psychedelics reported spectacular progress with alcoholism. The people who believe that alcoholism is a disease, and I don’t follow this literature closely. It seems to me this is a preposterous statement. You mean a disease? Like influenza, and small pox, and AIDS? Alcoholism is a disease? Can you get it if you don’t practice safe sex, or do you have to wash your eating untensils? It isn’t a disease, it is a failure of self-image. The reason LSD in many cases had a tremendous impact on alcoholic behavior is because it just showed people what they were doing. Say “This is you! You’re a drunk! You’re a burden to your family, a bore to your friends, you smell bad and you’re useless!” and how do you like it?! So somebody says “I don’t like it!” and they say “So stop drinking!”That’s how psychedelics cure addiction. Nobody when they ever talk about addiction, nobody ever talks about what is called. -Terence McKenna




Quote:

if you look at the pure statistics on alcoholism with LSD, it’s phenomenal, before LSD was made illegal. Now, I don’t believe these are chemical cures to drug dependency, that isn’t how it works. It works like this: you take LSD, you’re an alcoholic or a junkie, you take LSD, all your illusions and defenses are dissolved. You see that you’re killing yourself, that you’re a pathetic wretch and that you’re destroying yourself and the people around you and then you come down. And out of that experience you existentially draw in some cases the power, the self-will and the motivation to change your behavior. -terence McKenna




Quote:

The late ethnobotanist Terence McKenna once said “The pro-psychedelic plant position is clearly an anti-drug position. Drug dependencies are the result of habitual, unexamined and obsessive behavior; these are precisely the tendencies that the psychedelics mitigate.” Some psychedelics almost seem to be tailor-made to treat addiction problems. The best example of this is a little-known African rain forest shrub known as “Tabernanthe Iboga” (or just “iboga”)--and its psychoactive component “ibogaine”--appears to contain unusually potent medicinal properties that have helped many people to end deeply-engrained patterns of drug addiction, especially with opiates.
http://www.maps.org/news/media/2816-african-psychedelic-plant-offers-hope-for-drug-addiction





AA does do some good, but if you can not sit in a bar while others are getting drunk around you without you yourself having the desire to drink, then have you really solved your problem?

If you become just as dependant on meetings as you were to going to the bar, and have to take things minute by minute to keep yourself from drinking, than have you really solved your problem?

It's great that it keeps people sober, but that's about the only positive aspect of this particular sobriety cult.

When AA incorporates psychedelics I will feel it's actually working towards solving these people's problems, rather than just keeping them sober.


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I've noticed that when people are joking they're usually dead serious, and when they're serious, they're usually pretty funny.-Jim Morrison

'Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves.-Confucius —

When it gets down to having to use violence, then you are playing the system’s game. The establishment will irritate you – pull your beard, flick your face – to make you fight. Because once they’ve got you violent, then they know how to handle you. The only thing they don’t know how to handle is non-violence and humor.”― John Lennon

This account as been hacked! It is still being messed with by an intruder.


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