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OfflineDocPsilocybin
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Full Grain Colonization, Necessary?
    #2254910 - 01/20/04 03:07 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Well, is it? 

I've noticed that as far as Grain to Grains go after the first week to nine days the growth slows down substantially.  And the majority of my contam outbreaks happen a few days after this 'slowdown'.  This leads me to believe that while the mycellium is agressively colonizing it's strong and contaminate resistant.  After it slows down it kind of lies dormant and doesn't fight contaminants as well. 

I have made a few casings using 3/4 or 5/6 colonized grain jars and they've turned out fine, if not better than fully colo'd jars did.  I just left behind the uncolonized grains so they didn't contaminate my casing. 

The progress these jars that were birthed in what I kind of think of as their agressive growing stage was noticably faster I thought. 

Then again I'm the type of person who over analyzes a lot.  What does everyone think? 

Are you better off spawning with 3/4 colonized jars before the growth slows down or waiting the extra four days it takes to colonize the last tiny portion.  I find that most jars are 90% colonized after 5-7 days and 100% colonization takes another 3-5 days. 

Just slap me if I'm wasting your time :wink:


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Offlineragadinks
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Re: Full Grain Colonization, Necessary? [Re: DocPsilocybin]
    #2254927 - 01/20/04 03:22 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I always thought that the slowdown of growth is due to high Co2 built up at the bottom of the jars. Sometimes I flip my jars around so that they stand on there lid and this helps the mycelium to colonize the rest of the grains.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Full Grain Colonization, Necessary? [Re: DocPsilocybin]
    #2255077 - 01/20/04 05:37 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Growth should not slow down. If problems develop after 5-7 days, perhaps your sterilization is not complete.


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OfflineBasidiocarp
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Re: Full Grain Colonization, Necessary? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #2255085 - 01/20/04 05:43 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Growth should not slow down. If problems develop after 5-7 days, perhaps your sterilization is not complete.




I agree. In my experience, mycelium generally doesn't slow down on grain unless it encounters a contaminant (even if you can't see that contaminant yet).

Doc Psilo, what is your sterilization protocol (PSI, length of time, kind of autoclave, size of grain jars)?


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OfflineDocPsilocybin
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Re: Full Grain Colonization, Necessary? [Re: Basidiocarp]
    #2255120 - 01/20/04 06:14 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I use an All American huge ass pressure cooker. 15-20 PSI for 1.5 hours or more. Grain is popcorn. I've had problems due to crappy syringes which I'm going to fix and a few contams from G2G (no glove box, just lysol and prayers). I also use Tyvek as a filter. A round sheet of it that I screw between the jar and the ring and a lid.

I still think that the last bit of colonization goes the slowest usually. When doing cakes I've flipped them at the end to try and get rid of CO2 buildup and its not certain if it helped any.

I'm not saying I'm having any sorts of problems. It's just an observation that I've made from my jars that growth seemingly slows down after 12 days or something. Perhaps you're right and it is CO2. I was just pondering the possibility of a different state it might fall into if CO2 buildup or whatever factor slows down growth for too long. Perhaps it senses the stop in growth and enters the fruiting stage? I don't imagine mycellium grows too quickly if at all once it's in that stage.

Just some thoughts. That's all.

I've had a few jars that took 3 weeks or better and when they were spawned the mycellium bruised heavily when being broken up. I believe that's a sign of pending fruiting.


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OfflineBlue Helix
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Re: Full Grain Colonization, Necessary? [Re: DocPsilocybin]
    #2339575 - 02/16/04 02:03 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Learn agar and make myclium syringes.

Colonize on an agar surface in a half pint jar. Once a plate is colonized, break up the agar with heat sterilized anything, pour about 20 cc of hydrogen peroxide in there, cover and shake. Then add the sterilized water on top of that. Use the slurry of mycellium to innoculate jars.

When I do this procedure and incubate at 84F, I always get full colonization within 7 to 10 days, often sooner. It works every time, and there is never any contamination no matter how dirty the room is where I inject.


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Offlineragadinks
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Re: Full Grain Colonization, Necessary? [Re: Blue Helix]
    #2340134 - 02/16/04 07:07 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

You pour undiluted peroxid onto the mycelium ?


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OfflineBlue Helix
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Re: Full Grain Colonization, Necessary? [Re: ragadinks]
    #2340746 - 02/16/04 01:11 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah, I was leary of that too in the beginning, but it works. I think it cleans off the mycellium too of any spores or anything else which may land on it when I add the water. I've this dozens of times. Some say it will slow mycellium growth. That is wrong. The first signs of growth in the jars is 24 to 48 hours later, and the speed of colonization is extremely fast.


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OfflineBlue Helix
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Re: Full Grain Colonization, Necessary? [Re: ragadinks]
    #2340750 - 02/16/04 01:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I always incubate upside down and don't cover the holes. I also always keep my jars in an incubator with a desiccant to keep the air dry around them. You don't want the top vermiculite to become moist and then become a vector for contamination.


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OfflineGr0wer
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Re: Full Grain Colonization, Necessary? [Re: Blue Helix]
    #2341610 - 02/16/04 04:26 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

If your using grain as a substrate I would think it would be better not to have total colonization, then it can finsih colonization while your waitng for the casing to colonize. But if yor using it as a spawn total colonization is good.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Full Grain Colonization, Necessary? [Re: Gr0wer]
    #2341753 - 02/16/04 04:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

You definitely want full colonization in every case, otherwise the grain is an open invitation to contaminants.


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Offlineragadinks
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Re: Full Grain Colonization, Necessary? [Re: Blue Helix]
    #2341828 - 02/16/04 05:06 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Yeah, I was leary of that too in the beginning, but it works. I think it cleans off the mycellium too of any spores or anything else which may land on it when I add the water. I've this dozens of times. Some say it will slow mycellium growth. That is wrong. The first signs of growth in the jars is 24 to 48 hours later, and the speed of colonization is extremely fast.



I thought that the pure H2O2 also would kill the mycelium. But if you say that it works I will try that out. Thanks for sharing.


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Offlineamyloid
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Re: Full Grain Colonization, Necessary? [Re: ragadinks]
    #2341942 - 02/16/04 05:32 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

it doesnt kill all the mycellium on contact, and since i gets diluted when you add the sterilized water, its not a big deal.


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