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InvisibleSupalemonhaze
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Horse feed grains
    #22540242 - 11/18/15 02:39 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

So I just visited a horse feed retailer after endlessly looking for any type of grain unsuccessfully (here retailers just import ground grains instead of whole). Anyway they have both corn and oats and was wondering a couple of things. With corn I was wondering if they are the same as popcorn in terms of hull strength. I know popcorn is a specific type of corn so I am curious if switching to horse feed corn will get me burst corn after pcing.

Now with oats I found an old thread where someone used the horse feed oats and he said that they stick to each other very strongly after PCing unless you use a lot of gypsum (don't want another mess in my jars like I had when using millet). Now my question is what kind of gypsum is used in cultivation? The kind they use as a building material? Or is it bought from somewhere else?


Also as nutritional content goes would you say oats are better than corn? I would think so as it is around 5 euro more than corn per sack but im not really sure. So far I love popcorn cuz it breaks apart easy and doesn't burst easily but for the sake of nutes I won't mind switching to oats if gypsum is easily obtained.


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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: Horse feed grains [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #22540262 - 11/18/15 03:08 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Feed corn is usually cracked corn as far as I know, which is hard to deal with and prone to endospore problems, generally sucks.

Oats are supposed to be good.  Check out inocuole's intergalactic space out prep.  Not sure if there are different varieties of oats or whatever.

Gypsum is gypsum (calcium sulfate) afaik.  Doesn't matter if it comes from sheet rock or the garden store for soil ammendment, whatever.

Check pricing on brown rice, it's great spawn once you nail the prep.  Boiling water to jars in 40 mins :smile:


--------------------


I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


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InvisibleSupalemonhaze
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Re: Horse feed grains [Re: Machiavelliavore]
    #22540268 - 11/18/15 03:16 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Yea we have both cracked corn and whole corn here. They also use it on some type of big birds or whatever. Chickens or some shit.

Damn I guess im in business then. A 20kg sack of corn is 7 euro (I buy popcorn 1.10euro per 500g) and oats is 12 euro for 20kg. Could be 15kg each now that I think on it but w/e its still cheap.

I heard about rice being an awesome sub. But its expensive here cos we only get it at health shops. Never really searched a lot for it though so there could be somewhere cheaper.


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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: Horse feed grains [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #22540298 - 11/18/15 03:37 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Whatever works for you.  As long as you aren't using a straight gain substrate, it's not gonna matter much.

Maybe consider suplimenting with bran if you can get some cheap.  I hear great things from muda.

Oats are probably better than corn, IDK.  Not sure if they are 5euros better.  Your time and fruiting space must also be considered, not just straight cost/yield equivalence.


--------------------


I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


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InvisibleSupalemonhaze
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Re: Horse feed grains [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #22540308 - 11/18/15 03:46 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Lmao Inocuole's tek is awesome. He actually managed to make the tek Informative, accurate and hilarious most of all! Speaking of Inocuole is he still unable to post in mush cult? I think the 7 days are up. Miss having him crack me up while reading most of his posts.

Anyway seems like im buying a sack of oats and a sack of gypsum. Finally a cheap way to get grains. This is awesome, made my day.

Btw I have a big bag of bran from when I did my first order online. Thought I was buying berries :facepalm3:. Seems like its not going to waste then. I was scared to use it because I thought it will make the grains stick to each other in the jars. And yea I imagine oats have more nutrients than corn so ill be giving it a go first, see how it does.

As always thanks for your help Machiavelliavore! You are a godsend on the shroomery. As are a bunch of other people but you seem to never sl3ep :p. Tub spawning time! Cya later.


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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: Horse feed grains [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #22540324 - 11/18/15 03:58 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I live on euro time but I'm a fuckhead with not enough to do atm.  Yeah, hope Inocuole is back soon.  Love his tact.

I think corn is probably more rich in metabolic energy, but perhaps cubensis need that cellulose based sheathing material/husk stuff quite a bit as well.  Their natural habitat is digested grass after all, which would be cellulose rich, starch poor.

Corn + Bran could possibly remedy that somehow.  I'd still go with oats.


--------------------


I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


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InvisibleSupalemonhaze
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Re: Horse feed grains [Re: Machiavelliavore]
    #22540374 - 11/18/15 04:46 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Oats it is then.

I just realised how much my kitchen sucks for pasteurising semi-big quantities of bulk. Dont even have a pot that fits 15L of substrate :lmafo:. Luckily I found some big ass iven bags and loaded that in my PC. Waiting for this to cool is gonna suck for sure.

Hmm I could have sworn you lived in the US.


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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: Horse feed grains [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #22540413 - 11/18/15 05:13 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I do live in the USA, and that's why I'm a fuckhead.

What are you pasteurizing?  I microwave my casing with good results, and buckettek my coir.  Straw or poo?


--------------------


I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


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OfflineNDStepp84
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Re: Horse feed grains [Re: Machiavelliavore]
    #22540749 - 11/18/15 08:00 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I prefer oats myself over any grain, cheap, easy prep and hard to screw up. The prep I used was no soak, bring to a simmer/boil for 40 min until just a few burst, strain dry and PC. They came out great. if you buy whole oats and use about a teaspoon of gypsum they will not clump unless you burst too many and even then it's not that big of a deal and they colonize fine.


--------------------

"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
-Robert A. Heinlein 

:takingnotes: Links and teks:takingnotes:
ND's grow log and discussion
Plant thread


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InvisibleSupalemonhaze
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Re: Horse feed grains [Re: NDStepp84]
    #22540766 - 11/18/15 08:06 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Machiavelliavore said:
I do live in the USA, and that's why I'm a fuckhead.

What are you pasteurizing?  I microwave my casing with good results, and buckettek my coir.  Straw or poo?




Coir and verm and casing soil seperate. I know they say its ok to not pasteurise coir but id rather be safe than sorry. Never tried bucket tek. Only because I don't have those paint buckets with a lid. And none of the buckets I do have fit inside each other.

How do you go about microwaving? My microwave is pretty weak I dunno if its any good. Does it leave a lot of smell?

Quote:

NDStepp84 said:
I prefer oats myself over any grain, cheap, easy prep and hard to screw up. The prep I used was no soak, bring to a simmer/boil for 40 min until just a few burst, strain dry and PC. They came out great. if you buy whole oats and use about a teaspoon of gypsum they will not clump unless you burst too many and even then it's not that big of a deal and they colonize fine.




Might just try this. I always forget the soak and then I want to start right away. Always was an impatient SOB...


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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: Horse feed grains [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #22540873 - 11/18/15 08:39 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Supalemonhaze said:
Quote:

Machiavelliavore said:
I do live in the USA, and that's why I'm a fuckhead.

What are you pasteurizing?  I microwave my casing with good results, and buckettek my coir.  Straw or poo?




Coir and verm and casing soil seperate. I know they say its ok to not pasteurise coir but id rather be safe than sorry. Never tried bucket tek. Only because I don't have those paint buckets with a lid. And none of the buckets I do have fit inside each other.

How do you go about microwaving? My microwave is pretty weak I dunno if its any good. Does it leave a lot of smell?





Buckettek is fine.  I don't use a bucket either.  I use a 27qt tote for a brick or two, or a 56qt for more.  The 27qt I shittily wrap in foil and throw a towel over to aid in heat retention.  All my research here has indicated that proper pasteurization of coir is a waste of time.  What all these teks do is cook the coir to make the nutes more accessible.  I believe Pasty and Cron are onboard with this line of thinking.  Sterilizing is really the way to up the efficiency from buckettek it seems.  Oven pasteurizing or cooking might do it too.  Can't say I've experimented with all these permutations, but logically I think it makes sense since cold water hydrated coir will colonize but tends to yield less from the experiments I've read.  Pasty also said it's heat treated when the brick is formed, and therefore contains next to no beneficial bacteria to preserve with pasteurization.

For small batches of coir for trays, nuking after letting it sit in boiling water for 30 mins is a nice way to cook it more, since a small bowl has poor heat retention compared to a fatty tote.

For Peat casings, I just nuke it 2 minutes after I smell the delicious earthy peat smell, then stop.  Haven't had problems with 50/50+ or my peat coir casinng using this method.  Worth mentioning Hydrated Lime is in every mix I've used.  I figure it's mostly killing bugs and mold spores, maybe preserving some beneficial bacteria, but not as well as pasteurizing.


--------------------


I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


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InvisibleSupalemonhaze
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Re: Horse feed grains [Re: Machiavelliavore]
    #22540894 - 11/18/15 08:45 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

If I did that I would have probably already spawned today lmao. Instead im waiting for it to cool.

By the end of this week I should be spawning another 100lt+ tote so I will definitely give this a try.

Edit:
Oh yeah.. where is the lime bought from? Asked for it a couple of times in garden shops but they didn't have it.


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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: Horse feed grains [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #22541016 - 11/18/15 09:21 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

They have it at nurseries and garden sections here.  I think my bag was like 8lbs for $5 maybe.  I think it may also be used in concrete, but I believe I've heard that shit is stronger than horticultural lime and can burn the mycellium.


--------------------


I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


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OfflineNDStepp84
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Re: Horse feed grains [Re: Machiavelliavore]
    #22541150 - 11/18/15 09:55 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah man coir dosen't care what you do to it, like Mac said there is no added benefit to proper pasteurization,no beneficial bacteria on it. Sterilization works just fine, if you see trich before your first flush with coir it is most likely your spawn but people are quick to blame the bucket tek. Check out inoc's coir tek http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22072628
Also here is pretty much how I did my oats the first time http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22072628
I'm betting you will be sold on oats if you give them a shot, they are very forgiving. You would almost have to try to fuck up with oats, and then they would still probably work fine. Like I have said before I like the option of soaking or not because I don't know what I am doing one day to the next sometimes.


--------------------

"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
-Robert A. Heinlein 

:takingnotes: Links and teks:takingnotes:
ND's grow log and discussion
Plant thread


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InvisibleSupalemonhaze
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Re: Horse feed grains [Re: NDStepp84]
    #22562140 - 11/23/15 04:17 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Dang forgot about this thread. Just bought a sack of oats and came to get the link mach sent me lmao. Sometimes my phone makes threads look like I already read them. Sorry about that.

Thanks for the tips guys ill be sure to check out more garden shops and ima try that oat tek now.

Edit: those 2 links are the same NDSTEPP84, you club wielding troll :lolsy:

2nd edit: well I found some gypsum locally that they use for plastering but it's got chemicals In it and it doesn't say which. After a few searches on the net I found that gypsum based plaster is no good as a fertiliser. Guess ima try without it see how it goes. Is there any substitute for gypsum that might be more easily obtainable? Here it seems our soil is naturally rich in gypsum so so far I havent been able to find it In shops. Ill check the Co-op when I go buy coir next time.


Edited by Supalemonhaze (11/23/15 04:49 AM)


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Offlinetetherface
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Re: Horse feed grains [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #22562395 - 11/23/15 07:59 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I've had great success using dry wall as a gypsum substitute before but it is a mess to prep and make sure it's white drywall as the green kind has anti fungal shit in it so it can be used in damp areas. There's a tek around for prepping drywall but basically you just break it up into pieces and put it in a pillowcase or something and go outside and crush it however you want (hammer) then i used a coarse colander to separate the gypsum from the paper just get as much as you can the paper wont cause any problems  the only thing that concerns me is the sheet rock in eu the same as us?


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OfflineNDStepp84
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Re: Horse feed grains [Re: tetherface]
    #22562463 - 11/23/15 08:28 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

:lmafo: My bad Oat prep doing another round of oats myself this moring as soon as I get moving and get some drugs in my system:super:

Edit: I couldn't find gypsum within a 100 mile radius, I was out of town one day, googled garden supplies and nurseries and found some at a place called southern states. I used to use a piece of drywall board, worked but it was a mess and a pita. You can get by without it, but I like it, if anyone could make oats clump together it's me.:lol:


--------------------

"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
-Robert A. Heinlein 

:takingnotes: Links and teks:takingnotes:
ND's grow log and discussion
Plant thread


Edited by NDStepp84 (11/23/15 08:35 AM)


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OfflineNaturalimmunity
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Re: Horse feed grains [Re: NDStepp84]
    #28367217 - 06/20/23 01:14 PM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

NDStepp84 said:
:lmafo: My bad Oat prep doing another round of oats myself this moring as soon as I get moving and get some drugs in my system:super:

Edit: I couldn't find gypsum within a 100 mile radius, I was out of town one day, googled garden supplies and nurseries and found some at a place called southern states. I used to use a piece of drywall board, worked but it was a mess and a pita. You can get by without it, but I like it, if anyone could make oats clump together it's me.:lol:



Do whole oats clump without gypsum?


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OfflineShroomNugget
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Re: Horse feed grains [Re: Naturalimmunity]
    #28367271 - 06/20/23 01:54 PM (7 months, 5 days ago)

I use tractor supply horse oats and they work just fine, never had a problem. I just give them a good wash before boiling. It gets a lot of dust and crap out of them. 50 lbs for $25.


--------------------


Edited by ShroomNugget (06/20/23 01:54 PM)


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Offlinejohnukguy
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Re: Horse feed grains [Re: Naturalimmunity]
    #28367483 - 06/20/23 04:25 PM (7 months, 5 days ago)

You don't need gypsum and your necroing a thread that's nearly a decade old. You get better results generally asking in newer threads. The quick questions, quick answers one is a good one to use for questions such as this.


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Re: Horse feed grains [Re: johnukguy]
    #28367496 - 06/20/23 04:34 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

Feed grains work great Commercially, so its definitely usable

For grains my goals are:

- Hydrate core without bursting, but some bursting is okay
- Rinse until clean water (bursting neccessitates more rinse)
- Rinse until they are not sticky
- If you are still struggling, you can add some sawdust,
  it can sometimes save a poor grain prep into a okay or a good
- Sawdust works also to help when you cannot rinse, but ideally you want those sticky starchy stuff out of there by water soluble dilution

- When handled, doesnt stick to each other, doesnt stick to the hand

Then its all about drying out the surface
I prefer my grains close to "too dry" these days
It never fails me, and it is correctly acting against
bacteria who tolerate less dry surfaces than mycelia in my book


load into jars/bags, the same, no sticking to each other,
no bottom water/pool of water, no glistening surface,
no rings of water around grains pressing the jar/glass/bag


--------------------
Willpower is the one true virtue



Edited by smalltalk_canceled (06/20/23 04:34 PM)


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