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 Silverwolf
sandtrout
Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 1,108
Loc: Darkover
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
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 Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos"  [Re: Silverwolf]
#2248990 - 01/17/04 05:13 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm gonna have to get all academic again soon, but it can wait. Now .. pet subject... Neanderthal community ( and "civilisation" ?) ...by the way apart from a few glasses of "Organic Cert." vodka two nights ago I'm celebrating tonight with some Pinus Alba "triple style" ale 7.5 % alcohol by volume WONDERFUL....quotes "Introduced by the Vikings spruce and pine ales (shooobeeedooo shhooobeeedon't) were very popular in Northern Scotland until the end of the 19th Century" HE He!.... when they kicked everybody out, they're now popular in Canada!!... Neanderthals ..they buried their dead, made weapons, dwellings, produced art etc.etc. TOOK Amanitas!! (??) chanted sacred chants and, goddammit, practiced religion. So my lord buddha, my lord Krishna if so what happened to their - incarnate - souls ?
It's a fair question guys even if you don't believe, after all I'm asking those that do!
Edited by Silverwolf (05/30/04 06:29 PM)
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Mushmonkey
shiftlesslayabout
Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,865
Last seen: 1 month, 29 days
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 Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: Silverwolf]
#2250564 - 01/18/04 01:45 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think it would be entirely plausible that amanitas growing under different trees might be slightly different in their effects.. however it would be hard to 'prove', especially with such varied reports coming in from amanitas.. and from what I understand, each amanita itself is quite variable in what it contains.
But considering they ONLY grow in essentially a symbiotic relationship with certain trees, I don't think it would be unreasonable to think that a different species of tree would make more available to the amanita certain compounds that could lead to amanitas under a pine having different concentrations of psychoactive chemicals than an amanita from under a birch, or oak.. and looking at that list of compounds found in amanitas, that's lengthy.. I seriously doubt that each one has been researched for its specific effects.
There might not be a difference at all.. but to me at least, it sounds like it would be entirely possible.
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i finally got around to making a sig
revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might
grar.
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 mjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
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Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: Silverwolf]
#2252258 - 01/19/04 08:16 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Again to bring up another point of far widespread misinformation is that the Vikings suspected use of amanita muscaria as a tool for their Beserkers attacks on other cultures, according to the late Dr. Richard Evans Schultes, in a personal communication to me in the late 1980s, stated that, Quote:
"the Viking myth of using Amanita muscaria has been disproven. That was not the drink used by them to go into battle in a rage."
Sorry Lonewolf, your info is outdated ont hat one.
mj
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the man
still masked
Registered: 08/12/99
Posts: 6,619
Loc: C A N A D A
Last seen: 19 hours, 20 minutes
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Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: mjshroomer]
#2253147 - 01/19/04 03:06 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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so it was used?
and if it wasnt amanita then what did they use?
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And Moses Said "Let my mushrooms grow!"
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chinacat72
eyes of theworld
Registered: 11/14/02
Posts: 3,626
Loc: Terrapin Station
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Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: mjshroomer]
#2253229 - 01/19/04 03:30 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm curious MJ ,have you ever had a "psychedelic" experiance on Amanita's?
Years ago I decided to explore these beautiful looking mushrooms. I tried many different batches from many different places. I ate them dried, raw and heated.
I experianced a intoxicated state, but not one I could call psychedelic(in comparison to LSD,psilocybin,mescaline,DMT,DOM,ext).
I found no value in the experiance and labeled them worthtless.
So my question to you is have you ever gotten off on them?Meaning a psychedelic experiance. All my experiments were 20 years ago and I havn't touched them since. Seems I have met or read about only a few credible people that say there psychedelic.
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Some rise
Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!
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mjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
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Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: chinacat72]
#2254459 - 01/19/04 09:52 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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I haave no desire to try them. Never did and never will.
I have always been satisfied with my favorate species, the "liberty cap" mushroom.
I have seen people on them have a strange time adn seen people get very sick and physically uncomfortable on them.
I personally do not recommend them.
mj
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the man
still masked
Registered: 08/12/99
Posts: 6,619
Loc: C A N A D A
Last seen: 19 hours, 20 minutes
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Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: mjshroomer]
#2254518 - 01/19/04 10:05 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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i have taken small doses of var. farmosa. and find it can have a nice warming effect on winters days. i do not think they produce visions and arent very spritual at least to me at that dose. but mild narcotic/stimulation.
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And Moses Said "Let my mushrooms grow!"
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eve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--
Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 3,871
Loc: isle de la muerte 
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
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 Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: the man]
#2255413 - 01/20/04 08:36 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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This is a weird thread. I have to applaud the various intelligences gathered here. Lonewolf has much spiritual knowledge. Thanks for writing. May you continue...to a conclusion...with some more experiencial info. Others, there's got to be at least three different threads here going on. I'm trying to understand but well, I don't have enough time.
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...or something
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chinacat72
eyes of theworld
Registered: 11/14/02
Posts: 3,626
Loc: Terrapin Station
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Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: mjshroomer]
#2256976 - 01/20/04 05:43 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Thanks for replying MJ. 
I would never see a reason to use them agian when nature has provided us with Psilocybes. They are beautiful mushrooms to look at ,but they provide nothing of value in their experiance. Lots of twitching and slobbering and drowsiness is about it.
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Some rise
Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!
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Silverwolf
sandtrout
Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 1,108
Loc: Darkover
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
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 Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: chinacat72]
#2333768 - 02/14/04 08:31 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Oh well ask a somewhat snotty question and go on a long lupine lope.
It sounds to me as if MJ wants to enter into a technical discussion on the uses of amanita muscaria as a physical stimulant. Bear with me guys I just got back! ( The bear's right here maybe we should ask him his name!). There's is still alot of work to do on this thread, much of which IS based on personal experience, before the commencement of this years season, there is however plenty of time for me to do it. Other responsibilities have kept me away for a while, and the way things are going long absences may well become the norm as the pack ranges wider. So it may be aswell to make friends with the bear that is with me! ( sorry couldn't resist that one!).
TEAMWORK: Look it is important to have plenty of strength in your internal organs before embarking on any initiatory experience with the amanitas BELIEVE ME, it is also vital to prepare them properly. I often use them in doses which cause little more than CNS arousal ( ref; Terence McKenna "evolution"), even so I have found it absolutely necessary to be in the best physical condition when I do so. Are they psychedelic? Absolutely, however again I stress that I do not recommend experimentation without preparation.
"In every generation there is a chosen one, she alone will stand against the vampyres, the demons and the forces of darkness, she is the slayer." Joss Whedon "Buffy the Vampire Slayer". Before we get into the " my sister, scary, she kills things with wood " debate an observation and, perhaps, a revelation "So you've never taken Amanitas MJ? You know that doesn't surprise me? Book learning, knowledge of chemistry and experience with other psychedelics is all very well but I can SEE now why your remarks sometimes seem a little "off beam" to me! No offence we can ALL be better than we are, and the sacred fungi TEACHES YOU!" I am not the finished article by any means you guys ( or even "Finnish" article -chortle- ) , partly because nobody PREPARED me or WARNED me about the neccesary awareness and acceptance of the PRESENCE OF DEATH involved in the amanita experience, or how to form the relationship which transforms this awareness and acceptance into growth and learning. Death walks the earth be aware! 
Edited by Silverwolf (10/10/06 01:12 PM)
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Silverwolf
sandtrout
Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 1,108
Loc: Darkover
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
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Re: Mushmonkey *DELETED* [Re: Silverwolf]
#2338238 - 02/15/04 04:55 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Post deleted by SilverwolfReason for deletion: Confusing
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"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""
Edited by Silverwolf (09/27/06 04:15 AM)
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Silverwolf
sandtrout
Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 1,108
Loc: Darkover
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
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"Who's been sleeping in my bed?"
Well now that was something of a trek (uh-huh. ed), but look I,ve found something! Go to www.greenmanessences.com and check out their "Green Man Shamanic Power Plants"... quote " This collection of flower essences represents some of the most sacred,most culturally and spiritually important plants in the world. All make it possible for us to modify the way we see reality. Some are benign, some are toxic- even deadly in the wrong hands (italics mine. ed)- but even the most poisonous are providing the modern world with important medicines.
Prepared as biologically inactive (uh-huh .ed) vibrational essences. the energy signature or "spirit" of the plant can be experienced first-hand- without the problems associated with ingestion of the actual plant material."
Well now Shroomerites what do you make of this? I have spoken to Sue Lilly (the proprietress), she is a fellow member of the British Flower and Vibrational Essence Association*, but I have not tried any of the essences ( which range alphabetically from "Ayahuasca" - for which she uses Banisteriopsis caapi not Psychotria Viridis! Which suggests that she may not have the correct "permissions"- to wild tobacco ).
I have also come across other examples of what might politely be called "dumbing down" whilst on my travels, but those do not directly concern us now. 
(N.B She's not a "fellow member" anymore I've left!)
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"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""
Edited by Silverwolf (09/27/06 04:17 AM)
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mjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
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Hey,
What do you mean by this statement?
Quote:
"Ayahuasca" - for which she uses Banisteriopsis caapi not Psychotria Viridis!
Caapi, Ayauhuasca and/or Yage are made from a mixture of both Banisteriopsis Caapi (the vine) and the DMT and/or DMT and 5MEO-DMT form Psychotria viridis.
The vine is not very activce without the DMT which is the potente that makes you get high.
It takes both to make the mixture.
Without the leaves there is nothing there for you to experience.
mj
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Silverwolf
sandtrout
Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 1,108
Loc: Darkover
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
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There were more posts on this thread, but they seem to have disappeared 
P.S Can we take a vote on whether or not we should have a great hairy berserker gremlin ?
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"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""
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Silverwolf
sandtrout
Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 1,108
Loc: Darkover
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
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 Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: mjshroomer]
#2747522 - 05/30/04 06:00 PM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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This berserker thing concerns me MJ ( see "disapeared" post ), Mckenna identifies mescaline as an amphetamine - and dislikes it because it is one -, and we know that U.S forces have been using those in combat. Aren't the substances found in the amanitas related substances, I have always suspected so ? 
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"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""
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neuro
Phytophiliac
Registered: 08/10/99
Posts: 6,633
Loc: Rigel 7
Last seen: 6 months, 20 days
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Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: Silverwolf]
#2747641 - 05/30/04 07:06 PM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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>>This berserker thing concerns me MJ ( see "disapeared" post ), Mckenna identifies mescaline as an amphetamine - and dislikes it because it is one -, and we know that U.S forces have been using those in combat. Aren't the substances found in the amanitas related substances, I have always suspected so ?
Mescaline is not related to Muscumol/Ibotenic acid. Completely unrelated actually. You may be thinking of Nerve gasses which are similar in action to the chemicals in amanitas, cholinergics, the US forces get Atropine pens ot counter act the nerve gas as Atropine is an anticholinergic. I don't know if the US Troops have used the nerve gas recently but they're ready if they're exposed to it.
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Silverwolf
sandtrout
Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 1,108
Loc: Darkover
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
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Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: neuro]
#2764134 - 06/04/04 04:25 PM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
neuro said:
Mescaline is not related to Muscumol/Ibotenic acid. Completely unrelated actually. You may be thinking of Nerve gasses which are similar in action to the chemicals in amanitas, cholinergics, the US forces get Atropine pens ot counter act the nerve gas as Atropine is an anticholinergic. I don't know if the US Troops have used the nerve gas recently but they're ready if they're exposed to it.
Thank you for your information on mescaline and muscimol/ibotenic acid, it has( also )been my supposition however that the cactus and the fungi are similar in that both may require that the "shaman" develop a relationship with their respective "allies" ( although I have never read any accounts of an amanita ally, this does not of-course mean that one does not exist ). Also my reference to amphetamine use regards the use of "speed" during combat by U.S pilots of such aircraft as the "Warthog" ( ground-attack jet ), and fighter aircraft etc, during this, and the previous, Iraqi conflicts.
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"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""
Edited by Silverwolf (09/27/06 04:19 AM)
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mjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
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Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: neuro]
#2765457 - 06/05/04 03:31 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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Mescaline is a phenylethylamine which in turn is an amphetamine.
And if atropine is given to someone on ibotenic acid, the atropine acts as a potente and increases the high of the ibotenic acid a thousand-fold.
Doctors use to administer atropine for Amanita poisonings before they found out it increased the high of the amanita chemicals in the human body.
And the Army did not really give their soldiers amphetmines to stay awauke. Like truck drivers, many individuals use speed to stay awake and work. In America and most western countries, everyone drinks coffee for the same effect of staying awake and then 10% of the worlds population chew betel nut leaves for the same effects and in Peru and Ecuador indigenous peoples chew coca leaves for stength and stamia to get them through their long days and in Africa and some of themiddle east many shew Khat for the same effects.
mj
The majority of amanita users find the experience unpleasant and most are unwilling to use the mushrooms again.
mj
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neuro
Phytophiliac
Registered: 08/10/99
Posts: 6,633
Loc: Rigel 7
Last seen: 6 months, 20 days
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Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: mjshroomer]
#2765853 - 06/05/04 10:20 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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>>Doctors use to administer atropine for Amanita poisonings before they found out it increased the high of the amanita chemicals in the human body.
Are you positive about this, how old is your source on this?
edit:
Alkaloidaholic found this:
Quote:
But they also contain three other main constituents (Buck, 1961). Muscarin which is a parasympathomimetic substance is present. It acts directly on effector organs, smooth muscle, and glandular cells. Atropine prevents most of the effects.
Finally a pilztoxin is present because even after the muscarine present is prevented from acting by pretreatment with atropine, there remains a psychological effect. Narcoticlike intoxication, convulsions, and death have followed in spite of adequate treatment with atropine
but that same source says it contains bufotenin, so it's obviously old. Hopefully you get to see this before you're trip to overseas.
Edited by neuro (06/05/04 10:26 AM)
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mjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
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Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: neuro]
#2766005 - 06/05/04 11:42 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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I believe you can catch u0 on that in Journal of Psychedelic Drugs or Psychoactive drugs, name changes in article part three Mushrooms buy Andrew Weil and also Jonathan OTt's Psycho amanita paper in another issue of that hj journal.
Those are from the late 1970s and onwar.
I also know that there are mentions of this in other articles and probably in The Lioncoff and m Mitchell as wella s the Rumack and Salzman mushroom poisoning books. I personally do not have the time to dig up the refs.
Lincoff, Gary and D. H. Mitchell, M.D. 1977. Group 6: Psilocybin-psilocin (hallucinogenic poisoning). Toxic and Hallucinogenic Mushroom Poisoning:9-26, 100-135. 267pp. Van Nostrand Reinhold. New York.
A physicians handbook of mushroom toxins presents a brief history on the traditional use of entheogenic mushrooms in Mesoamerica. Their rediscovery by western society and descriptions of several well known and sought after North American varieties are presented. Dosages are included but caution should be given regarding proper dosage (See Allen, 1976, 1978, 1979, 1980; Haard & Haard, 1975; Ott, 1993) for relateddosage information.
Rumack, Barry and Emanuell Saltzman (Eds.). 1978. Mushroom Poisoning: Diagnosis and Treatment. 263pp. CRC Press. West Palm Beach.
One of two books dealing specifically with psilocybian mushroom poisoning and other toxic muhrooms. In this particular book, several papers regarding case histories and treatment for psilocybian intoxication are presented. The second book on mushroom poisoning is Lincoff and Mitchell's Toxic and Hallucinogenic Mushroom Poisoning.
mj
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