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Anonymous

taxation is theft
    #2252513 - 01/19/04 12:54 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

just thought i'd clear this up for some of our thick-headed socialist friends.

1. theft = to forcefully take someone's justly acquired property.
2. taxation = to forcefully take someone's justly acquired property.

therefore:

3. taxation = theft


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: taxation is theft [Re: ]
    #2252530 - 01/19/04 01:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

And expecting to be able to not pay tax and live in a society that is able to function as coherently as ours do is a utopian dream or worse still mere freeloading, which is not much different to theft.

The easiest solution i can see is for all the people who think they are having their money stolen to leave the country. That means all the people who are left are happy to contribute to social programs etc.
With all the greedy fucks gone our countries would probabaly be alot nicer places to live anyway.

Cheerio!


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Always Smi2le


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: taxation is theft [Re: ]
    #2252551 - 01/19/04 01:10 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

this whole taxation = theft thing is just weak semantic gymnastics. You want to live in a society but you dont want to contribute or you believe that people left to their own devices will all contribute to social programs etc Either way you are way off the mark.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: taxation is theft [Re: ]
    #2252601 - 01/19/04 01:52 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

taxation is theft, but it entails different things. 

If i thieve your cash, you aint gettin shit out of it.  I'm gonna avoid contact with you and you're not gonna see shit from that. 

If a government taxes you, yes, they are taking your hard-earned cash against your will, so it is like theft in some ways.  But the implication is that they are going to spend it on stuff for you, like roads, streetlights, police, fire, and rescue.  Its a bit different than me stealin your dough and spending it on crack for me. 

I'm willing to bet that you used or benefitted from public services before you were old enough to pay taxes, yes?  So its not even really a matter of faith.  The government has been payin for your school, keepin you safe, and building roads for you to be able to go places your whole life, and now its time for you to give back.  You're not some kind of commie freeloader that uses services he doesnt pay for, are you? :wink:


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: taxation is theft [Re: ]
    #2252631 - 01/19/04 02:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Even if taxation is theft, it is still a necessary evil.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Anonymous

Re: taxation is theft [Re: GazzBut]
    #2252716 - 01/19/04 02:40 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

And expecting to be able to not pay tax and live in a society that is able to function as coherently as ours do is a utopian dream

i've never said that living in a society without taxation is very likely... i believe i've even said it myself that it's a utopian fantasy... but it is at best a necessary evil and it is still theft.

mere freeloading, which is not much different to theft.

from whom?

The easiest solution i can see is for all the people who think they are having their money stolen to leave the country. That means all the people who are left are happy to contribute to social programs etc.

you shouldn't have to flee your homeland to avoid excessive taxation. wanting to keep what is yours until you voluntarily agree to part with it is not greed, and i'm not going to explain the economic consequences that would ensue if all the rich people moved away and took their money with them; i'm sure you can figure that out.

this proposition makes no logical sense. if the people who don't want to be forced to pay for social programs left, only the people who volunteered to pay would remain and pay for them. it would mean that those who didn't want to pay wouldn't pay, and those who did would. why use force at all?


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InvisibleLallafa
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Re: taxation is theft [Re: ]
    #2252769 - 01/19/04 03:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

you have and will use certain things that your tax money pays for, such as public schools, roads, you are protected by the police that is paid for by the system.


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my tax dollars going to more hits of acid for charles manson


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InvisibleLallafa
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Re: taxation is theft [Re: ]
    #2252775 - 01/19/04 03:03 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

plus, no one forces you to pay taxes.


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my tax dollars going to more hits of acid for charles manson


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Anonymous

Re: taxation is theft [Re: GazzBut]
    #2252780 - 01/19/04 03:05 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

this whole taxation = theft thing is just weak semantic gymnastics.

actually its a solid rational argument.

A = B
B = C

therefore, A = C

You want to live in a society but you dont want to contribute

no, i would like to contribute. let us say that i live in a small community where i am a farmer. in this community there is a tailor, a shoemaker, a builder, a candlemaker, and a psychic.

i grow wheat, and i trade it with the tailor for clothes. i have contributed wheat to the tailor, and he has contributed clothing to me. the wheat i gave him was worth as much to him as the clothes he gave me were to me. i make similar deals with the builder when my home needs repairs and the shoemaker when i need shoes. each time i recieve something from the other people, i must give something of equal value. for everything i recieve from the rest of the community, i must contribute something of equal value. the shoemaker and the candlemaker also make these sorts of exchanges, as does everyone else in the community. we're all better off for it and we all recieve things equal to what we give.

one day everyone realizes that the psychic is just a sham, and she stops getting business. she isn't providing anything, and she isn't getting anything in return. if the constable comes into town and forces me to feed her, the tailor to clothe her, and the builder to house her, now she is getting more from the community than she is contributing, and each person in the community is contributing more than they get back.

i have no wish to recieve things from the community without contributing something of equal value. to do so usually entails theft.

people left to their own devices will all contribute to social programs etc

they probably would. i believe they would, for the most part. if they wouldn't, that's just a shame. you can't force them to. one man hasn't got a higher claim on another man's life just because the first can't find work.


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Anonymous

Re: taxation is theft [Re: Lallafa]
    #2252788 - 01/19/04 03:08 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)


you have and will use certain things that your tax money pays for, such as public schools, roads, you are protected by the police that is paid for by the system.


this was already argued and debunked but a few days ago. using services that you've been forced to pay for in no way changes the fact that you were forced to pay for them in the first place, nor does it mitigate this in the least.


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Anonymous

Re: taxation is theft [Re: Lallafa]
    #2252794 - 01/19/04 03:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

plus, no one forces you to pay taxes.   

:lol:

oh?

what happens to you if you refuse to pay your taxes?


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InvisibleLallafa
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Re: taxation is theft [Re: ]
    #2252805 - 01/19/04 03:13 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

i read an article about a few people who openly refused to pay taxes, as they cited it was a violation of rights granted to them in the constitution.

these people werent rich. i dont know what happened to them.


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my tax dollars going to more hits of acid for charles manson


Edited by Lallafa (01/19/04 03:13 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: taxation is theft [Re: Lallafa]
    #2252817 - 01/19/04 03:18 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

if you do not pay your taxes, men with guns will come and forcefully place you in detainment where you will be forcefully held against your will.

the government does not ask you to give money to them, they tell you.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: taxation is theft [Re: ]
    #2252846 - 01/19/04 03:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

mushmaster said:
plus, no one forces you to pay taxes.   

:lol:

oh?

what happens to you if you refuse to pay your taxes?



Nothing if you're a major campaign contributor to the Bush administration.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Anonymous

Re: taxation is theft [Re: silversoul7]
    #2252855 - 01/19/04 03:37 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

and for the rest of us?


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Invisiblesir tripsalot
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Re: taxation is theft [Re: ]
    #2252860 - 01/19/04 03:39 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

so you oppose a government putting together an army by collecting taxes? I agree, the army should be funded through donation.


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"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: taxation is theft [Re: sir tripsalot]
    #2252870 - 01/19/04 03:42 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

In a perfect world, schools would get all the funding they need, while the military would have to hold a bake sale to buy a stealth bomber.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: taxation is theft [Re: ]
    #2252903 - 01/19/04 03:54 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Do you believe everyone who is currently unemplopyed in the US or the UK could find a job tommorow if they wanted to?


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Always Smi2le


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Anonymous

Re: taxation is theft [Re: sir tripsalot]
    #2252926 - 01/19/04 04:00 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

so you oppose a government putting together an army by collecting taxes?

i used to, but i don't think it would work. the army would be so small and weak that we'd probably be taken over and made to submit to a far worse government. a government must initiate force if it is to exist at all. the measure of the goodness of government is how much it initiates force against its people, and to what ends. a perfect (impossible) government wouldn't do it at all, and a good one would do it as little as needed just to exist and prevent against acts of force by others.


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Anonymous

Re: taxation is theft [Re: GazzBut]
    #2252940 - 01/19/04 04:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Do you believe everyone who is currently unemplopyed in the US or the UK could find a job tommorow if they wanted to?

nope, but after the boost the economy would get from the slashed tax rates after the elimination of welfare, they'd have a pretty good shot. then if the minimum wage was abolished, they'd have an even better shot at it. the few who still couldn't make ends meet would likely be taken care of by voluntary organizations, and the few who weren't would freeze or starve.


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