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OfflineTheGreenArrow
Goodbye, Mr. Chops.
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Registered: 06/22/12
Posts: 15,270
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Re: Are you striving for enlightenment? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #22465079 - 11/02/15 12:27 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

You already are.


--------------------
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an
invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, conn a ship, write a
sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the
dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve an
equation, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a
computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.- Robert A. Heinlein
Saint RedBow of the Shroomey Loomey-Patron Saint of Sandbaggin Sumbitchs


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OfflineTheGreenArrow
Goodbye, Mr. Chops.
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Registered: 06/22/12
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Re: Are you striving for enlightenment? [Re: TheGreenArrow]
    #22465085 - 11/02/15 12:28 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

It's actually a supremely good joke.


--------------------
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an
invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, conn a ship, write a
sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the
dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve an
equation, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a
computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.- Robert A. Heinlein
Saint RedBow of the Shroomey Loomey-Patron Saint of Sandbaggin Sumbitchs


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OfflineTripsurfer
Bring Back Asante!
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Registered: 08/01/12
Posts: 7,129
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Last seen: 4 months, 15 days
Re: Are you striving for enlightenment? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22465832 - 11/02/15 08:54 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

The fact that some Buddhists are assholes doesn't negate the existence of a state of enlightenment.

I do not believe enlightenment comes with the ability to see ultimate truth or anything like that.

I do however believe that by practicing meditation certain mental states can be achieved giving the experience of enlightenment.

Yeah its completely subjective and wont give me special powers. Supposedly its pretty awesome though so I wants it.


--------------------
Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros...

A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.



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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
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Re: Are you striving for enlightenment? [Re: Tripsurfer]
    #22465856 - 11/02/15 09:02 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Tripsurfer said:
The fact that some Buddhists are assholes doesn't negate the existence of a state of enlightenment.




some buddhists? it's the foundations of the faith


Quote:


I do not believe enlightenment comes with the ability to see ultimate truth or anything like that.

I do however believe that by practicing meditation certain mental states can be achieved giving the experience of enlightenment.





see, this is just the sort of pretentious twattery I was referring to because now
a person cannot simply come to a realization halfway through their work day that
life is nothing like what they had been taught to believe for so many years

Quote:

Yeah its completely subjective and wont give me special powers. Supposedly its pretty awesome though so I wants it.




it's as subjective as god in the fact that it doesnt exist


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OfflineTheMovement
faeirie princess in training
I'm a teapot


Registered: 07/30/12
Posts: 6,781
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Re: Are you striving for enlightenment? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22467298 - 11/02/15 04:26 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

bump/


--------------------
Utwiddle.net

In order to act like a king, one need only treat everyone else like one.

BUMP THIS THREAD EVERYTIME YOU SEE IT

Join the Anarchy Camp!  Down with Oppression!!


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OfflineMoxyOx
Grazin'

Registered: 10/08/10
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Re: Are you striving for enlightenment? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22470442 - 11/03/15 10:50 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Realizations are helpful, they come and go. Meditation helps in unwinding the social/physical constructs that we have developed, but it goes beyond that.

There's more to thoughts then just imagery and logic.

"it's as subjective as god in the fact that it doesnt exist"

I exist, as do you.

God, evil, the devil, enlightenment, awakening, the whole shebang and then some, they exist in our minds and texts. We make them real by accepting them and propagating them.


--------------------
No one behind, no one ahead.
The path the ancients cleared has closed.
And the other path, everyone's path,
easy and wide, goes nowhere.
I am alone and find my way.


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Offlinetopdog82
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Registered: 07/16/10
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Re: Are you striving for enlightenment? [Re: MoxyOx]
    #22470880 - 11/03/15 12:31 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I am a little skeptical that full on "enlightenment" exists. But I do think that cultivating incredible clarity of mind has its benefits. In my life, returning to meditation, yoga, dream yoga, and scripture reading always keeps me a little more sane

Whether this will end in enlightenment I am unsure. I see it more as sort of symbolism/figurative speech for the extreme states of emptiness and mental clarity that one can achieve with the right understanding


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OfflineUzziel
O_o


Registered: 12/30/10
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Re: Are you striving for enlightenment? [Re: topdog82]
    #22470887 - 11/03/15 12:33 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I don't care to be enlightened

I just want a dog that will get me a beer on demand and my life will be complete


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Offlinetopdog82
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Posts: 7,992
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Re: Are you striving for enlightenment? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #22471183 - 11/03/15 01:47 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
I feel like I have to believe that its possible to attain some kind of transcendent state and actually transcend the sufferings of life. I choose to believe this and act as though it is true.

I want to be sitting in lotus position as an 80 year old man in deep Samahdi doing yoga at sunrise, astral traveling and having lucid dreams every night, chanting mantas and hiking in the forest.



Lol this is gonna be me in old age. I was also gonna get two dogs and a goat so I could get fresh milk in the morning. Maybe some chickens for eggs as well


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Are you striving for enlightenment? [Re: Prisoner#1] * 2
    #22471194 - 11/03/15 01:49 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

MrBlueYoMind said:
Are Buddhists attached to the concept of enlightenment?





they may talk about it but it means dick because it's simply talk

Tibetan buddhist monks demand to be treated like gods, you do not feed the poor or
starving before making sure the monks are fed, they accumulate wealth and whether
it continues today or noot doesnt negate that until at least the last 50 years they
would abduct children to work as slaves in the monasteries

in Thailand every male is ordained as a buddhist monk, most opt not to remain as a
monk but they still follow the traditions which also include ensuring that the
monks are well cared for, these monks are untouchables and it is actually a crime
to touch them, arrest them or anything else

in sri lanka and myanmar the buddhist monks are waging a war against the muslims,
not some peaceful protest sort of war, they've started attacking the muslims in a
show of force with swords, guns and any other weapon, they incorporate child
soldiers that have been dragged into all of it. it's the same in most places

there is no enlightenment, just pretentious jackasses that think they're better
than everyone else and decide to tell everyone about it constantly



hahahah this was the most retarded post I have read in a while. I lost a lot of brain cells sir. I would like them back...

"Some buddhists around the world are assholes therefore enlightenment does not exist"


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InvisibleHobozen
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Registered: 11/03/11
Posts: 10,634
Loc: Flag
Re: Are you striving for enlightenment? [Re: topdog82]
    #22471246 - 11/03/15 02:01 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

:loldongs:


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OfflineTripsurfer
Bring Back Asante!
Male


Registered: 08/01/12
Posts: 7,129
Loc: West of Windward Flag
Last seen: 4 months, 15 days
Re: Are you striving for enlightenment? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22471268 - 11/03/15 02:07 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:




see, this is just the sort of pretentious twattery I was referring to because now
a person cannot simply come to a realization halfway through their work day that
life is nothing like what they had been taught to believe for so many years






I am not saying that at all. What I am saying is that meditation can help you cultivate the brain to achieve certain states accompanied by certain experiences. Some people achieve those states spontaneously or by having a massive stroke (https://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke_of_insight)

Without going into the whole epistemology of it, I definitely belief in the existence of the singular experience called 'enlightenment' itself


--------------------
Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros...

A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.



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InvisibleBreathlessVision
The Electric Sceptic
I'm a teapot User Gallery

Registered: 03/11/14
Posts: 1,736
Re: Are you striving for enlightenment? [Re: Tripsurfer]
    #22471617 - 11/03/15 03:23 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
How many people actually see attaining some kind of enlightenment state as a real goal in life?

Do you believe in the possibility of enlightenment (nirvana, awakening, transcendence, ascension, liberation etc)?

Do you work towards it?

What methods do you use to attain it?

I believe it is possible. Because by living well I can change my consciousness from horrible to positive, why shouldn't it be possible to go from positive to enlightened?

A single yoga class makes me feel happy, calm and relaxed. A single session of meditation makes me feel calm and at peace.

So it makes sense to me that taking these disciplines farther, practicing them daily for decades, could indeed lead to a total tipping point, a moment where your consciousness passes a threshold into a new state- awakening.

Lately I am getting into binaural beats as a way to use brainwave entrainment as a powerful short cut to meditative absorption.

Just interested for how many people are like Buddhists or Hindus in being concerned with actually working towards a spiritual "End Goal".






Hey moonshoe, I really want to answer this question in depth because it gets me really excited to talk about all of this stuff. I will try to make an argument for all sides of the dice because I think there are many - I don't like absolutes and I am still figuring life out like the rest of humanity so I don't have a definite answer but I will say what I can.

I think to go anywhere with the concept of enlightenment you need to first ask: what is 'enlightenment'. I mean I think it could be many things, perhaps it is the attainment of a blissful state of awareness - of the whole cosmos, so that you feel entirely in sync with existence rather than seeing myself as slime on a rock or some put-down model of life. It could be I think more like a path, or a mindset, a potential in human beings that pulls them forward to seek truth or the 'true enough' as Mckenna puts it :lol:.

I do not think there is an 'end goal' as such, I think it is a realisation, or a series of realisations in life which are unwordable. Experiences and feelings you cannot put into words - the ineffiable.

Sometimes I think if you try to crystalise and frame the ineffiable, it is no longer ineffiable - you have put it into words or form etc...also when you try to explain the numinous the ineffiable, the whole thing is so complex and has so many layers that you sound 'mad' or culturally deemed insane.

I want to write more but I have somewhere to be but hopefully I can come and give more input later on.

To round it off - I think I am still seeking, I think I am looking for the path or the way. I am still lost, deep in the ocean with the fishes and the strange creatures.

Here is a video that you may like - it makes me wonder, it makes me feel, it makes me ask the big questions.



Peace
:rose::heart:


--------------------




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Offlineinvitro

Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
Last seen: 2 months, 8 days
Re: Are you striving for enlightenment? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #22493267 - 11/07/15 10:01 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Speaking of emotional intelligence, I thought you guys might enjoy this short quiz on reading facial expressions.

http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/ei_quiz/

:ooo::mad::cool::smile:


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: Are you striving for enlightenment? [Re: invitro] * 1
    #22493284 - 11/07/15 10:04 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

thoughts on enlightenment:

there is a certain space of time and a focus that is required, no attachment to thoughts, and to simply act with out the thought; but one must be mindful of the focus you give to yourself, and that's really all there is. there is concentration, which is simply the same idea, but applied to certain streamlined actions, which is not the same as enlightenment...enlightenment is simple, and ineffectual, that is, until is gone again.


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OfflineNear Dylan
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Registered: 07/29/15
Posts: 13,929
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Re: Are you striving for enlightenment? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22493289 - 11/07/15 10:06 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
thoughts on enlightenment:

there is a certain space of time and a focus that is required, no attachment to thoughts, and to simply act with out the thought; but one must be mindful of the focus you give to yourself, and that's really all there is. there is concentration, which is simply the same idea, but applied to certain streamlined actions, which is not the same as enlightenment...enlightenment is simple, and ineffectual, that is, until is gone again.



I always thought of enlightenment as something you can't lose. If you lose it, it means you weren't really enlightened in the first place.


--------------------


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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: Are you striving for enlightenment? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #22493292 - 11/07/15 10:07 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I think enlightenment comes from ceasing to strive


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
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Re: Are you striving for enlightenment? [Re: Near Dylan]
    #22493313 - 11/07/15 10:14 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Near Dylan said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
thoughts on enlightenment:

there is a certain space of time and a focus that is required, no attachment to thoughts, and to simply act with out the thought; but one must be mindful of the focus you give to yourself, and that's really all there is. there is concentration, which is simply the same idea, but applied to certain streamlined actions, which is not the same as enlightenment...enlightenment is simple, and ineffectual, that is, until is gone again.



I always thought of enlightenment as something you can't lose. If you lose it, it means you weren't really enlightened in the first place.



and that's true to an extent, but you shouldn't lapse on the existence of it in the first place. if you want it you need to focus. it does impart an existence, but it must be brought into it by you.


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
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Re: Are you striving for enlightenment? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22493325 - 11/07/15 10:17 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

MrBlueYoMind said:
Are Buddhists attached to the concept of enlightenment?





they may talk about it but it means dick because it's simply talk

Tibetan buddhist monks demand to be treated like gods, you do not feed the poor or
starving before making sure the monks are fed, they accumulate wealth and whether
it continues today or noot doesnt negate that until at least the last 50 years they
would abduct children to work as slaves in the monasteries

in Thailand every male is ordained as a buddhist monk, most opt not to remain as a
monk but they still follow the traditions which also include ensuring that the
monks are well cared for, these monks are untouchables and it is actually a crime
to touch them, arrest them or anything else

in sri lanka and myanmar the buddhist monks are waging a war against the muslims,
not some peaceful protest sort of war, they've started attacking the muslims in a
show of force with swords, guns and any other weapon, they incorporate child
soldiers that have been dragged into all of it. it's the same in most places

there is no enlightenment, just pretentious jackasses that think they're better
than everyone else and decide to tell everyone about it constantly



first off, that is all just stupid human silliness. it's a perversion.

not that i'm a buddhist. but you know secondly, enlightenment is a thing, it was a thing that was heavily revered. you probably have experienced it plentifully in your life time and simply call it something else, but it is a thing, it's simply the feeling of being on top of your game, on a roll but not from a high but from being so inextricably focused and sincere.

it's such a simple concept but it's lost in translation.


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Offlineinvitro

Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
Last seen: 2 months, 8 days
Re: Are you striving for enlightenment? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #22522657 - 11/14/15 02:17 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

In response to OP, enlightenment is a goal in my life, I do work towards it, mostly by silent meditation.

I've been trying to do a better job at defining what enlightenment is ever since you posted this thread originally and it has been elusive.  I'd like to take another shot at defining it:

Painting a picture:
Image that you are on the Titanic with lots and lots of other people, just after the iceberg has struck and the whole ship is tilting sideways.  At that point everyone is keenly aware of their limited time to live and their focus shifts.  You can look around you and see the ballroom filled with diamond studded jewelry and gold plated chandeliers and crystal dinnerware and the glow of lamps everywhere.  And you look at the people on the decks huddled together in fur coats, all of them nervous and afraid and in trouble.  It's at that point that the silliness of pursuing wealth becomes so apparent, you are at your last moment you are taking your last breaths.  The most valuable thing in the world becomes obvious, to say goodbye to friends family and loved ones.  To do what you can to make amends and right as many wrongs as you can.  To recognize what others have done for you and to return as many favors as you can.

Defining enlightenment:  This is not a definition that I can convince you by logic is true, but it's something felt from the inside,
something I can feel on the inside (sometimes but not always).

Enlightenment, one possible definition, is to be able to feel and recognize that people at their core are loving supportive creatures, and as such they have an intrinsic worth.  To try to see past all the many failings, and hurts and wrongs, and not let those things cloud
our perception of people until we no longer see them as valuable but only see their shortcomings and not their inner core.

To realize we are on that sinking ship, we are at our last breath, and these few seconds that we have left are an opportunity to do something beautiful.

This is only my perspective and I'd like to hear more from others!


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