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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 1 month, 9 days
Re: Should Saddam face the death penalty? [Re: ]
    #2264946 - 01/23/04 05:14 AM (20 years, 1 month ago)

> [people] who are not universally against the death penalty, but would spare saddam hussien. i'm just wondering... if you wouldn't execute saddam hussein, who the hell would you execute?

I am one of them. The only time I support the death penalty is for treason as described in the constitution.

People do bad things all the time. I simply do not feel that I am a wise enough person to decide if another should die. I am known to make mistakes, and there is no undo for death. I also feel that living in prison for life is a lot worse fate than death. When I talk about prison, I mean a little room with bars on the exits, no television, no books, no movies, no friends, few visitors, plain food... just boredom watching your life slowly tic away... day after day... year after year...


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Anonymous

Re: Should Saddam face the death penalty? [Re: llamaboy]
    #2265026 - 01/23/04 06:30 AM (20 years, 1 month ago)

dhamer. i never saw saddam kill anyone...never rape anyone...so his people were repressed. and who are you to say what he did...if you live in the US, which i assume you do, all you get is propoganda...you don't what's true and what's not.

please. go ask human rights watch, amnesty international, or a whole slew of other quite unbiased international human rights groups about hussein's record. they'll all tell you that he killed between 300,000 and 800,000 iraqis, and that doesn't even include those killed in the wars he started or by the sanctions he brought against his country. do you think the holocaust actually happened, or is that a myth spread by propaganda as well?

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Anonymous

Re: Should Saddam face the death penalty? [Re: Seuss]
    #2265763 - 01/23/04 12:39 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

I am known to make mistakes, and there is no undo for death.

to be fair, there is no way to undo imprisoning someone for a portion of their life either.

I also feel that living in prison for life is a lot worse fate than death.

a lot of people will say that, but i think when actually faced with the visceral reality of impending death, most will opt to live, even if in prison. this is why death row inmates focus so much energy on appealing their death sentences, or why in a capital case in the court room, the defendant will make a plea in return for a life sentence as opposed to the death penalty, rather than the other way around. sometimes the sole purpose of the defense's strategy is to avoid the death penalty. most people would rather live in jail than be executed, and the ones that do prefer death can always find a way to arrange for that once their in jail anyway.

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Offlinellamaboy
the weasel thatsnagged the bee

Registered: 11/08/03
Posts: 563
Loc: Portland PNW
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Should Saddam face the death penalty? [Re: ]
    #2266029 - 01/23/04 02:33 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

he killed people himself??!!! that's news to me. i mean he might have ordered people to do it...but i mean he actually picked up the gun and killed the fuckers?! wow, he's got balls.

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Anonymous

Re: Should Saddam face the death penalty? [Re: llamaboy]
    #2266673 - 01/23/04 06:01 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

he killed people himself??!!! that's news to me. i mean he might have ordered people to do it...but i mean he actually picked up the gun and killed the fuckers?! wow, he's got balls.

i'm sorry. he mostly ordered people to kill other people, on the condition that if they didn't do as he said, he'd have people kill them too.

(and he did actually kill some people himself).

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Offlinellamaboy
the weasel thatsnagged the bee

Registered: 11/08/03
Posts: 563
Loc: Portland PNW
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Should Saddam face the death penalty? [Re: ]
    #2267100 - 01/23/04 10:53 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

didn't president bush (both of them) order our troops to invade iraq and kill the people that were saddams minions???! does that mean that the bush's should be killed? or tried for crimes of war? *shrug* i mean, we may not have killed those that refused to kill iraqis, but they would most likely spend the rest of their lives in langley.

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Anonymous

Re: Should Saddam face the death penalty? [Re: llamaboy]
    #2267909 - 01/24/04 09:49 AM (20 years, 1 month ago)

i don't believe there were any orders to target civilians in any military attacks, to imprison civilians, or to torture or execute anyone.

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InvisibleYesItsMe
Homeless GOHOME !...
Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 253
Loc: Working for Piss ;...
Re: Should Saddam face the death penalty? [Re: ]
    #2268159 - 01/24/04 12:07 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

http://www.pressaction.com/pablog/archives/001174.html 

www.swdtimes.com/swdtimes/html/Daily3/SUNDAY/apr14/04.html+"12+years+old"+Guantanamo&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8" target="_blank">http://www.google.fr/search?q=cache:UkiY...fr&ie=UTF-8

......................  :shiftyeyes: .....................


--------------------
God save the Queen

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Anonymous

Re: Should Saddam face the death penalty? [Re: YesItsMe]
    #2268469 - 01/24/04 02:33 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

pretty fucked up, but how does it lessen the severity of hussein's crimes?

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Offlinellamaboy
the weasel thatsnagged the bee

Registered: 11/08/03
Posts: 563
Loc: Portland PNW
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Should Saddam face the death penalty? [Re: ]
    #2268763 - 01/24/04 04:34 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

what did saddam do to us? that's another question...to the US personally...oooooo weapons of mass destruction (none found). but they found what _could_ have been used to make such weapons. ties with al queda? none found whatsoever...so what gave the US the right to go in and invade iraq? after all, it was an invasion, not a war. the US has more ties with al queda than saddam does...after all bin laden is an ex-CIA operative. trained to do everything that a cia operative can. where do you think they got there weapons from? the US? well hey there! you got that oen right! the US has this amazing ability to arm the world, then say "we still live in a dangerous world" and then blow the fuck out of who ever we sold those weapons too. the US asked for 911. i have sympathy for those that lost their lives in the attack, and for the family of those. but i have no sympathy for this country. the attack on iraq had absolutely nothing to do with anything terrosit related...the US has more to do with terrosim than saddam could be proved to. there is not one justifiable excuse as to why this country should have invaded iraq. and there isn't one excuse to why this country should still be over there. even now that they've disposed of the dictator, no other country wants to help with the cause...they've raised almost no money (quite a lot, but notthing compared to what's needed) in order to rebuild this country...oh, but there's electricity in almost all the houses now! OMG! so the fuck what. at the cost of how many lives? and for what? to depose a dictator that had provoked NO ONE in NO WAY!

the vietnam war was just as pointless. johnson sent all those little minorities to fight a war that couldn't be won. 50,000 died. absolutely no point. the US killed those kids. do you see the US being tried for war crimes? or any of the three US presidents on trial for their lives? do not forget that these presidents were the ones that sent these kids to their deaths...these kids had no option. this country is no better than any other. in fact, this country is worse than most. it's no wonder that the US is dispised by 2/3 of the world.

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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Should Saddam face the death penalty? [Re: ]
    #2268837 - 01/24/04 05:10 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Frankly, I think killing him would be too merciful. I know I'd rather just die and have it over with than spend the rest of my life in a small, cold cell.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Anonymous

Re: Should Saddam face the death penalty? [Re: llamaboy]
    #2268860 - 01/24/04 05:17 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

what did saddam do to us? that's another question...to the US personally...

this is a good reason to let the iraqi people decide.

so what gave the US the right to go in and invade iraq? after all, it was an invasion, not a war.

hussein's noncompliance with arms inspections.

the US has more ties with al queda than saddam does...after all bin laden is an ex-CIA operative. trained to do everything that a cia operative can.

i'm afraid not. not only was bin-laden never a "CIA operative", but al-qaeda wasn't even formed until 1989, after the end of CIA aid to the mujaheedin.

where do you think they got there weapons from? the US? well hey there! you got that oen right. the US has this amazing ability to arm the world, then say "we still live in a dangerous world" and then blow the fuck out of who ever we sold those weapons too.

how many AK-47's do you see in these parts of the world compared to how many M-16's? how many soviet T-series tanks compared to how many bradlees or abrams? how many migs and su-whatevers... how many US-made fighter jets? the soviet bloc is mostly to blame for arming the third world.

the US asked for 911.

how do you figure? how did the united states provoke al-qaeda or the taliban? how did the actual people working in the towers?

the attack on iraq had absolutely nothing to do with anything terrosit related...

hussein supported terrorist organizations.

there is not one justifiable excuse as to why this country should have invaded iraq.

1. saddam hussein was in near continual violation of his arms agreements for over a decade.

2. as a result of these violations, sanctions were placed against iraq, which were blamed for killed 500,000 people, and more each year.

3. saddam hussein's government supported terrorists.

4. saddam hussein's government had directly killed at least 300,000 of it's own people so far.

sounds to me like a brutal, undemocratically-seated tyrant who likes building WMD's and would just love to let some slip into the hands of some willing jihadists. why shouldn't we have invaded iraq?

even now that they've disposed of the dictator, no other country wants to help with the cause...they've raised almost no money (quite a lot, but notthing compared to what's needed) in order to rebuild this country...oh, but there's electricity in almost all the houses now! OMG! so the fuck what. at the cost of how many lives? and for what? to depose a dictator that had provoked NO ONE in NO WAY!

what? there are so many problems with that i don't even know where to begin.

the vietnam war was just as pointless. johnson sent all those little minorities to fight a war that couldn't be won. 50,000 died. absolutely no point. the US killed those kids.

think what you will of the vietnam war, but the facts are that only about a third of those serving there were draftees, the average age was in the mid-twenties, and the vast majority believe to this day that they fought for a good cause and were glad they served.

this country is no better than any other. in fact, this country is worse than most. it's no wonder that the US is dispised by 2/3 of the world.

which foreign countries have you visited?

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Offlinellamaboy
the weasel thatsnagged the bee

Registered: 11/08/03
Posts: 563
Loc: Portland PNW
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Should Saddam face the death penalty? [Re: ]
    #2268935 - 01/24/04 05:45 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

bin laden and the CIA, that is if you trust NBC
http://www.msnbc.com/news/190144.asp?cp1=1

If the UN's regulations on saddam were so bad, then why were so many countries against the invasion? would you let me into your bedroom every night to make sure that you didn't have a gun in your house, or a knife? i don't see the UN knocking on the US's door just because we have biologiacal weapons, or nuculear weapons...the whole "but he didn't cooperate" is so strung out...first he has ties to bin laden and al queda himself...then he's just known to support terrorists after no conclusive evidence is found...then he's not cooperating with us. it wasn't a problem in the previous decade...why in the first couple years of bush's "presidancy" is it such a problem.

>even now that they've disposed of the dictator, no other country wants to help with the cause...they've raised almost no money (quite a lot, but notthing compared to what's needed) in order to rebuild this country...oh, but there's electricity in almost all the houses now! OMG! so the fuck what. at the cost of how many lives? and for what? to depose a dictator that had provoked NO ONE in NO WAY!

what? there are so many problems with that i don't even know where to begin.<

now that the US has desposed of saddam, they've asked for help repairing the country. almost no other country has offered any real help with rebuilding this invaded country...they've offered credits and want not, but no real cash. and even the credit that has been offered is nothing compared to what is needed to rebuild this country.

by, the lights on: the press was hyping that almost all of iraq was now with electricty...all i was saying was "oh joy" now they can see their war torn nation. what a joy it must be to see half the city you used to know lying in rubble, with your brother or sister dead.

i do not blame the military, and i wish them as much luck as they need. i hope that they will all be home soon. but the person that has sent them to do his little christian war is the one to blame for all of this.

just to let you know, this will be my last post in this thread. you seem to me to be one of those that got patriotic when it was cool. "these colours don't run" .

yes, i have been to other countries, and you know what, i'd rather live in mexico.

it's sad that all of this had to happen...and it was even sadder that these people had to die. it _was_ pointless. though, i doubt the military, or the rednecks would say so, but it was.

i hope that bush attacks north korea in his next term. yes, i think that he will get re elected unfortunately. that way japan can show the US what a real invasion is like. like iraq could have stood a chance against the US.

b'bye

peace.

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InvisibleYesItsMe
Homeless GOHOME !...
Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 253
Loc: Working for Piss ;...
Re: Should Saddam face the death penalty? [Re: ]
    #2270734 - 01/25/04 04:55 AM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

mushmaster said:

so what gave the US the right to go in and invade iraq? after all, it was an invasion, not a war.

hussein's noncompliance with arms inspections.




That's WRONG !!! ONU inspectors were in Irak and did their job .







where do you think they got there weapons from? the US? well hey there! you got that oen right. the US has this amazing ability to arm the world, then say "we still live in a dangerous world" and then blow the fuck out of who ever we sold those weapons too.

how many AK-47's do you see in these parts of the world compared to how many M-16's? how many soviet T-series tanks compared to how many bradlees or abrams? how many migs and su-whatevers... how many US-made fighter jets? the soviet bloc is mostly to blame for arming the third world.







And what about rocket launchers , mines , Mc donald , Mickey , the ketchup and of course Pepsi and coca ...







the attack on iraq had absolutely nothing to do with anything terrosit related...

hussein supported terrorist organizations.





Korea , Iran , Saudi Arabia too.


--------------------
God save the Queen

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Anonymous

Re: Should Saddam face the death penalty? [Re: llamaboy]
    #2271259 - 01/25/04 10:32 AM (20 years, 1 month ago)

bin laden and the CIA, that is if you trust NBC

i never said that there weren't ties between bin laden and the CIA. they were partners in the shared goal of kicking the soviets out of afghanistan. no suprise there. but was he a CIA operative? no. did they train him? no. had al-qaeda even been formed at the time? no.

If the UN's regulations on saddam were so bad, then why were so many countries against the invasion?

saddam hussein's government owed a total of $127 billion in debts to foreign countries. france, germany, and russia (all members of the UN security council) in particular were owed billions of dollars in debt from hussein's government. france, china, and russia all had large contracts for developing oil intrastructure in iraq. all of this stood to be lost in the event of an invasion. this isn't something you heard much about in the news. there are alot of other countries did support the invasion. spain, japan, italy, poland, portugal, the netherlands, australia, the UK, iceland, denmark...

would you let me into your bedroom every night to make sure that you didn't have a gun in your house, or a knife?

this analogy might be a little more fitting if i had first shot at my neighbors and stabbed my children. hussein made an agreement to allow arms inspectors into his country. he broke it again and again and again.

i don't see the UN knocking on the US's door just because we have biologiacal weapons, or nuculear weapons...

that's because we didn't invade our neighbor in the early 90's, get our asses handed to us, and sign a cease-fire agreement with conditions providing for arms inspections.

the whole "but he didn't cooperate" is so strung out...first he has ties to bin laden and al queda himself...then he's just known to support terrorists after no conclusive evidence is found...then he's not cooperating with us. it wasn't a problem in the previous decade...why in the first couple years of bush's "presidancy" is it such a problem.

it was a problem for the previous decade. you might not remember because you are probably pretty young i take it...

July 1994 - Iraq destroys 480,000 liters of chemical agents in accordance to demands of the UNSCOM. (Oldaker 1996, 2)

14 June 1996 - UNSCOM inspectors begin dismantling a biological weapons facility in central Iraq, despite pleas from Baghdad to salvage some dual-use items. (Reuters, 14 June 1996)

End October 1997 - Iraq refuses entry to three Americans on a team of UN arms inspectors, and warns Iraqi anti-aircraft guns might fire upon US U-2 spy planes if surveillance flights continue. The UN sends a high-level diplomatic mission to resolve the budding crisis and Iraq delays the expulsion order against the American inspectors. (Washington Post, 3 November 1997, A1; Financial Times, 5 November 1997, 6)

12 November 1997 - The UN Security Council unanimously approves a travel ban for senior Iraqi officials and demands that Iraq stop interfering with UN weapons inspectors. Iraq insists that the weapons teams have fewer Americans. When Iraq refuses to comply with UN demands, the weapons inspectors leave the country. Fears mount that Iraq could revive chemical and biological weapons programs without the oversight of the international community. Russia and France push for a diplomatic solution to the crisis, while Washington does not rule out a resort to the use of force. The United States increases its military presence in the Gulf. (Washington Post, 13 November 1997, A1; Washington Post, 18 November 1997, A22)

21 November 1997 - After intense diplomacy by Security Council members, particularly Russia, Iraq agrees to allow UN weapon inspectors back into the country. Russia agrees to push for concessions, such as the easing of the UN sanctions, in return. The Security Council rebuffs a Russian request to declare Iraq free of nuclear weapons and nearly free of prohibited missiles. (Washington Post, 21 November 1997, A1; New York Times, 22 November 1997, A1)

16 January 1998 - A weapons inspection team leaves Iraq after being barred for three days from conducting an inspection. The UN Security Council deplores Iraq's decision, which constitutes a clear violation of UN resolutions. (CRS, 6 March 1998, 3)

17 January 1998 - Saddam Hussein announces that Iraq will expel all weapons inspectors if sanctions against Iraq are not removed within six months. (CRS, 6 March 1998, 3)

3 February 1998 - US Secretary of Defense Cohen warns that if diplomacy fails, the United States will wage a "significant" military campaign against Iraq, "far more than what has been experienced in the past." (CRS, 6 March 1998, 5)

29 April 1998 - UNSCOM chief arms inspector Richard Butler reveals that experts discovered mustard gas in Iraqi artillery shells found at an ammunitions depot in 1996. The discovery raises new questions about similar shells that remain unaccounted for. (New York Times, 29 April 1998, A10)

24 June 1998 - Contradicting claims it never weaponized the substance, UNSCOM chief Butler says tests at Aberdeen Proving Ground in Maryland show Iraq loaded deadly VX gas onto a missile. Iraq claims bias in the test of warhead pieces; similar weapons fragments are tested in Switzerland and France to see whether the finding can be confirmed. (USIS, 24 June 1998; New York Times, 25 June 1998, A10)

23 July 1998 - Iraqi authorities refuse to give UNSCOM documents that list weapons used by the Iraqi Air Force during the war with Iran. (Washington Post, 24 July 1998, A28)

5 August 1998 - Iraq restricts activities of IAEA and orders an end to all UNSCOM inspections, except for those specifically approved by the Iraqi government. It allows long distance monitoring with video camera, as well as air, water and soil sampling, to continue. President Hussein demands that UNSCOM be restructured, Butler replaced, and that UNSCOM move its headquarters out of the United States. (Financial Times, 6 August 1998, 1; USIS, 6 August 1998; New York Times, 15 September 1998, A3; Wall Street Journal, 2 October 1998, A16)

3 September 1998 - In a letter to Congress, President Clinton denounces Iraq's failure to allow weapons inspections, warns that, "If the Council fails to persuade the Iraqi regime to resume cooperation, all other options are on the table ." (USIS, 3 September 1998)

14 September 1998 - Iraq's National Assembly threatens to end all cooperation with inspectors unless the Security Council resumes regular reviews of the sanctions. (New York Times, 15 September 1998, A3)

31 October 1998 - Iraq stops all cooperation with weapons inspectors, banning arms inspectors from visiting sites that have already been inspected and were being monitored by UNSCOM. Baghdad says sensors and monitors placed in sites can continued operating and also exempt the IAEA from its latest decision. (Financial Times, 2 November 1998, 1; Wall Street Journal, 2 November 1998, A4)

20 November 1998 - Shortly after UNSCOM inspectors resume their duties in Iraq, the Iraqi government refuses to provide 12 documents relating to weapons inventories. Iraqi Deputy Foreign Minister Riyadh al-Qaysi accuses the inspectors of "unjustifiably" prolonging their work, thereby extending the embargo. (Washington Post, 24 November 1998, A25; 18 November 1998, A33; Financial Times, 24 November 1998, 6)

19 December 1998 - After four consecutive nights of bombing, the US and Britain end the attack on Iraq. President Clinton declares Operation Desert Fox a success at degrading Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction program and his conventional military capacity. In all, there were about 600 bombs and 415 cruise missiles fired at approximately 100 targets. (Washington Post, 20 December 1998, A1; New York Times, 20 December 1998, 24; Wall Street Journal, 21 December 1998, A3; 22 December 1998, A20)

15 December 1999 - Iraq refuses to allow IAEA inspectors to check Iraq's uranium stockpile as required under the 1968 nuclear nonproliferation treaty. (New York Times, 15 December 1999, A13; 16 December 1999, A5)

19 December 1999 - Iraq officially rejects resolution 1284 and demands unconditional lifting of sanctions. (Washington Post, 19 December 1999, A54)

(emphasis mine)

complete timeline here.

this shit has been building up for years.

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Anonymous

Re: Should Saddam face the death penalty? [Re: YesItsMe]
    #2271281 - 01/25/04 10:42 AM (20 years, 1 month ago)


That's WRONG !!! ONU inspectors were in Irak and did their job .


see my last post.

And what about rocket launchers , mines , Mc donald , Mickey , the ketchup and of course Pepsi and coca ...

most of the rockets and mines are soviet equipment as well. how does soda, fast food, and disney have anything to do with this?

Korea , Iran , Saudi Arabia too.

the point being?

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InvisibleRunDMT
H?L? GH??
Registered: 07/21/03
Posts: 16,166
Re: Should Saddam face the death penalty? [Re: Annom]
    #2271567 - 01/25/04 12:37 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

I think he should be forced to participate in Big Brother. It should be aired worldwide.

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InvisibleYesItsMe
Homeless GOHOME !...
Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 253
Loc: Working for Piss ;...
Re: Should Saddam face the death penalty? [Re: ]
    #2273542 - 01/26/04 01:40 AM (20 years, 1 month ago)

USA wins the economic war  but loses two towers , haha thats the WAR  ( sorry for families ! ).
MushMaster  , believe what u want , i believe what i want .
You've got a good answering though .  Have a good fight ! :smirk:


--------------------
God save the Queen

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