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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Losing my health insurance again
#22501003 - 11/09/15 03:56 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: zappaisgod]
#22501240 - 11/09/15 04:41 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well, if the GOP can keep both houses of congress and gain the White House, I have no doubt we'll be seeing big changes to the Obamacare debacle, it won't be fully repealed, as no govt program ever is. But we need majority in all three, otherwise dems will shut down the govt blocking any changes and just blame it on republicans like they always do...
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: zappaisgod]
#22501536 - 11/09/15 05:25 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/albany/2015/09/8577891/more-trouble-co-ops-health-republic-told-wind-down
From your article:
Quote:
Health Republic offered one of the lowest premiums of any insurer on the exchange...
Its success may have been its undoing.
The insurer's low premiums attracted roughly 20 percent of the New York market, but the company never had the reserves to cover all those members. From the beginning, many industry insiders wondered whether its offerings were too generous.
Another failure of private insurance. Why bother with a middle man? Single payer would solve this problem, and drop rates considerably for everyone if there's no middle man insurance sucking people's money away.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/albany/2015/09/8577891/more-trouble-co-ops-health-republic-told-wind-down
From your article:
Quote:
Health Republic offered one of the lowest premiums of any insurer on the exchange...
Its success may have been its undoing.
The insurer's low premiums attracted roughly 20 percent of the New York market, but the company never had the reserves to cover all those members. From the beginning, many industry insiders wondered whether its offerings were too generous.
Another failure of private insurance. Why bother with a middle man? Single payer would solve this problem, and drop rates considerably for everyone if there's no middle man insurance sucking people's money away.
In single payer, the government is the middle man, I don't see the logic in your line of reasoning. Trade one small middle man for a gigantic one...
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Government already has a middleman in place in Medicare; we can just do 'Medicare for All' without any super major expansion.
Also, Government doesn't need to make a profit, so we get healthcare based on needs rather than profit. Eliminating profit also cuts costs.
Furthermore, Government IS big and would have more negotiating power with the drug companies. Why do you think drugs are so much cheaper in Europe than they are in the US?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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I was perfectly happy with my Insurance before asshole fucked me. Now I have had two insurance plans yanked away because of that cunt.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Government already has a middleman in place in Medicare; we can just do 'Medicare for All' without any super major expansion.
Also, Government doesn't need to make a profit, so we get healthcare based on needs rather than profit. Eliminating profit also cuts costs.
Furthermore, Government IS big and would have more negotiating power with the drug companies. Why do you think drugs are so much cheaper in Europe than they are in the US?
Medicare is for retired people only. Medicaid is for bums. There is no fucking profit to speak of in health care. Europe is, as per it's wont, a freeloader on the US. Cut Pharma profits? No research.
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sprinkles
otd president


Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 21,527
Loc: washington state
Last seen: 3 years, 16 days
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: zappaisgod]
#22502335 - 11/09/15 07:51 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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no ones going to pay for your fertility treatments zappa.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: sprinkles]
#22502344 - 11/09/15 07:52 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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By fertility treatment do you mean the cost of postage for the straw you have been begging me for?
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sprinkles
otd president


Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 21,527
Loc: washington state
Last seen: 3 years, 16 days
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: zappaisgod]
#22502412 - 11/09/15 08:02 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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I want stuff and things!!!
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: zappaisgod]
#22502645 - 11/09/15 09:01 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: I was perfectly happy with my Insurance before asshole fucked me. Now I have had two insurance plans yanked away because of that cunt.
That's why I'm saying - single payer.
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Medicare is for retired people only.
Today it is. Not if we improve Obamacare.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Government already has a middleman in place in Medicare; we can just do 'Medicare for All' without any super major expansion.
Also, Government doesn't need to make a profit, so we get healthcare based on needs rather than profit. Eliminating profit also cuts costs.
Furthermore, Government IS big and would have more negotiating power with the drug companies. Why do you think drugs are so much cheaper in Europe than they are in the US?
Expanding Medicaid for all would require a massive expansion of govt, more agencies, more buerocrats, more waste, more fraud, more abuse.
Yes, I know all too well that govt sees no need to make a profit, they are accountable to no one, and it's not thier money they're spending so who the fuck cares, right?
And yes, Europe gets cheaper drugs, the research and development costs are raised here. Like Zappa said, less profits, less research, less drugs.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Expanding Medicaid for all would require a massive expansion of govt, more agencies, more buerocrats, more waste, more fraud, more abuse.
Why would it require that? Sure it would require more people to process more patients, but there would be huge economies of scale, and the existing infrastructure is already in place and could be applied to younger people.
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Yes, I know all too well that govt sees no need to make a profit, they are accountable to no one, and it's not thier money they're spending so who the fuck cares, right?
As a patient, if given a choice between someone who wants to maximize his own profit by minimizing my care, and someone who wants to maximize my care because they don't care about profit, I'd prefer the latter. But there's not unlimited resources, even Government care would have to have limits.
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: And yes, Europe gets cheaper drugs, the research and development costs are raised here. Like Zappa said, less profits, less research, less drugs.
Agreed. And you're cool paying for everyone else's healthcare except for the people in your own country?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
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Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Quote:
Why would it require that? Sure it would require more people to process more patients, but there would be huge economies of scale, and the existing infrastructure is already in place and could be applied to younger people.
Lol, there is currently over 65 million people on Medicaid, if you think quintupling that number wouldn't dramatically increase the size of govt, your very naive
As a patient, if given a choice between someone who wants to maximize his own profit by minimizing my care, and someone who wants to maximize my care because they don't care about profit, I'd prefer the latter. But there's not unlimited resources, even Government care would have to have limits.
There's that naïveté again, have you heard of the VA? Fudging numbers to increase their bonuses, while thousands die, nope, no profit motive there. Of course there'd be limits, and I'd rather those limits be imposed by a contract that I'm paying for than some govt shmuck just sitting around deciding willy nilly who lives and who dies, possibly based on my voting record(yes, there is precedence for it)
Quote:
Agreed. And you're cool paying for everyone else's healthcare except for the people in your own country?
No, but I am cool with paying for own healthcare and having continued research done to enhance my quality of life, which wouldn't get done under singlepayer.
So you're cool with drug companies no longer developing cures and treatment?
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa
Last seen: 6 hours, 33 minutes
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Will you guys get your heads out of your asses and go universal already. How many more clues do you need in order to realize that your fucked up private system is fucked up?
Stubborn America. Sees countries around them implement successful systems and programs. Does the opposite and fails....
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Edited by Patlal (11/10/15 10:45 AM)
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said: if you think quintupling that number wouldn't dramatically increase the size of govt, your very naïve
Apparently, you didn't see my response: "Sure it would require more people to process more patients, but there would be huge economies of scale, and the existing infrastructure is already in place and could be applied to younger people."
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: have you heard of the VA?
Of course I've heard of it. I'm a veteran and I've posted many articles about the current funding shortage that Republicans refuse to acknowledge.
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: So you're cool with drug companies no longer developing cures and treatment?
No, they'd still develop cures and treatments. But the costs would be more evenly shared amongst the countries needing the drugs.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: Patlal]
#22504440 - 11/10/15 10:31 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said: Will you guys get your heads out of your asses and go universal already. How many more clues do you need in order to realize that your fucked up private system is fucked up?
Stubborn America. Sees country around them implement successful systems and programs. Does the opposite and fails....
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: I was perfectly happy with my Insurance before asshole fucked me. Now I have had two insurance plans yanked away because of that cunt.
That's why I'm saying - single payer.
That phrase is a lie. It will in fact be multi-payer. Multiple taxpayers who aren't fucking loser bitches.Quote:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Medicare is for retired people only.
Today it is. Not if we improve Obamacare.
The best way to improve Obamacare is to abolish it.
Premiums going up to $2,000 a month, about a 15% increase. If we had government insurance it would be even more to me. And the care would suck. See VA, government health care.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: Patlal]
#22504583 - 11/10/15 11:10 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said: Will you guys get your heads out of your asses and go universal already. How many more clues do you need in order to realize that your fucked up private system is fucked up?
Stubborn America. Sees countries around them implement successful systems and programs. Does the opposite and fails....
What part of Canadians going over the border to pay for health care didn't make a dent in your fucking thick skull?
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa
Last seen: 6 hours, 33 minutes
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: zappaisgod]
#22504669 - 11/10/15 11:32 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Patlal said: Will you guys get your heads out of your asses and go universal already. How many more clues do you need in order to realize that your fucked up private system is fucked up?
Stubborn America. Sees countries around them implement successful systems and programs. Does the opposite and fails....
What part of Canadians going over the border to pay for health care didn't make a dent in your fucking thick skull?
When you're right, you're right... 50000 Canadians go to the US for care. Roughly 0.1% of the population. Solid point Zap
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: Patlal]
#22504706 - 11/10/15 11:40 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: Patlal]
#22504728 - 11/10/15 11:48 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Of course I've heard of it. I'm a veteran and I've posted many articles about the current funding shortage that Republicans refuse to acknowledge.
I notice you conveniently skipped over the part about people at the VA allowing thousands of serviceman and women to die to increase their bonuses, you don't mind that part? As a vet, I'd think you'd be livid about it, but I guess liberal ideology comes first. I've never served but I seem to care more about vets than you do, that's sad
Quote:
50000 Canadians go to the US for care. Roughly 0.1% of the population. Solid point Zap
And if it were superior health care, that number would be zero
I wonder which Canadians are sitting around thinking "the healthcare sucks in America, I'm gonna go THERE for my surgery!"
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said: I notice you conveniently skipped over the part about people at the VA allowing thousands of serviceman and women to die to increase their bonuses, you don't mind that part?
First of all people didn't get bonuses "for allowing thousands of servicemen and women to die". That's simply a lie. Secondly, they got rid of the bonus system.
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: As a vet, I'd think you'd be livid about it, but I guess liberal ideology comes first. I've never served but I seem to care more about vets than you do, that's sad
I've argued we need to close the VA funding gap to care for our servicemen and women. Are you on board with that, or are you just delivering lip service about how much you pretend to care as your party calls for more tax cuts for the rich?
Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
Patlal said: 50000 Canadians go to the US for care. Roughly 0.1% of the population. Solid point Zap
And if it were superior health care, that number would be zero
750,000 Americans travelled abroad for Medical Care in 2007
A lot more left for healthcare than came here for it.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (11/10/15 12:24 PM)
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 19 minutes, 16 seconds
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: zappaisgod]
#22504851 - 11/10/15 12:20 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Patlal said: Will you guys get your heads out of your asses and go universal already. How many more clues do you need in order to realize that your fucked up private system is fucked up?
Stubborn America. Sees countries around them implement successful systems and programs. Does the opposite and fails....
What part of Canadians going over the border to pay for health care didn't make a dent in your fucking thick skull?
What part of americans going to Canada for healthcare didnt make a dent in your thick fucking skull!?! Lmao!
Single payer is clearly the way to go. Low-information idiots are the only people who can't fucking see that. The whole world pays less for healthcare, and most of them have better outcomes. Conservatives need to stop swallowing propagandist garbage.
The whole world isn't wrong. You are.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (11/10/15 12:21 PM)
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
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They got rid of the bonus system because they got caught
Of course vets should get the care and funding they need, that's why dems fight against them being allowed to go to private health providers
Canada has about a tenth of the population we do, so there's that. Now show me figures for how many came from EVERY country in the world to get healthcare here, if you dare...
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: Bigbadwooof] 1
#22504875 - 11/10/15 12:27 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Patlal said: Will you guys get your heads out of your asses and go universal already. How many more clues do you need in order to realize that your fucked up private system is fucked up?
Stubborn America. Sees countries around them implement successful systems and programs. Does the opposite and fails....
What part of Canadians going over the border to pay for health care didn't make a dent in your fucking thick skull?
What part of americans going to Canada for healthcare didnt make a dent in your thick fucking skull!?! Lmao!
Single payer is clearly the way to go. Low-information idiots are the only people who can't fucking see that. The whole world pays less for healthcare, and most of them have better outcomes. Conservatives need to stop swallowing propagandist garbage.
The whole world isn't wrong. You are.
How's that single payer working out in Cuba, Greece and Venezuela? I'll wait...
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 19 minutes, 16 seconds
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I order my medication from Bulgari for less than 1/10 the cost. My mom flew to Costa Rica on multiple occasions for their reduced healthcare costs. He doctor thQuote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Patlal said: Will you guys get your heads out of your asses and go universal already. How many more clues do you need in order to realize that your fucked up private system is fucked up?
Stubborn America. Sees countries around them implement successful systems and programs. Does the opposite and fails....
What part of Canadians going over the border to pay for health care didn't make a dent in your fucking thick skull?
What part of americans going to Canada for healthcare didnt make a dent in your thick fucking skull!?! Lmao!
Single payer is clearly the way to go. Low-information idiots are the only people who can't fucking see that. The whole world pays less for healthcare, and most of them have better outcomes. Conservatives need to stop swallowing propagandist garbage.
The whole world isn't wrong. You are.
How's that single payer working out in Cuba, Greece and Venezuela? I'll wait...
I haven't heard of any problems with the healthcare system in those countries specifically.
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: They got rid of the bonus system because they got caught
Of course vets should get the care and funding they need, that's why dems fight against them being allowed to go to private health providers
Canada has about a tenth of the population we do, so there's that. Now show me figures for how many came from EVERY country in the world to get healthcare here, if you dare...
Please show evidence of this 'bonus program' if you're going to keep going on about it. What does Canada's population have to do with it? How does that factor in AT ALL? If anything we have more of a reason to do it, because we have far more to lose keeping the system we have.
Look up the cost of any procedure or medication in the US vs anywhere else in the world. Generally speaking, it's at LEAST double, and typically 3-10X as much. I brought up the Hep-C drug 'Sofosbuvir' in a thread a few months ago. In the US we pay $80,000 for a course of this medication. In Egypt it costs $300. That's roughly a 27,000% difference.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Of course vets should get the care and funding they need, that's why dems fight against them being allowed to go to private health providers
Dems are NOT fighting against them being allowed to go to private health providers. PLEASE stop with the straw man arguments!
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Of course vets should get the care and funding they need, that's why dems fight against them being allowed to go to private health providers
Dems are NOT fighting against them being allowed to go to private health providers. PLEASE stop with the straw man arguments! 
http://hotair.com/archives/2015/09/03/va-inspector-general-307k-veterans-died-waiting-for-health-care/
Truth hurts, doesn't it?
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
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Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22505814 - 11/10/15 04:09 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: I order my medication from Bulgari for less than 1/10 the cost. My mom flew to Costa Rica on multiple occasions for their reduced healthcare costs. He doctor thQuote:
hostileuniverse said: Will you guys get your heads out of your asses and go universal already. How many more clues do you need in order to realize that your fucked up private system is fucked up?
Stubborn America. Sees countries around them implement successful systems and programs. Does the opposite and fails....
What part of Canadians going over the border to pay for health care didn't make a dent in your fucking thick skull?
What part of americans going to Canada for healthcare didnt make a dent in your thick fucking skull!?! Lmao!
Single payer is clearly the way to go. Low-information idiots are the only people who can't fucking see that. The whole world pays less for healthcare, and most of them have better outcomes. Conservatives need to stop swallowing propagandist garbage.
The whole world isn't wrong. You are.
How's that single payer working out in Cuba, Greece and Venezuela? I'll wait...
I haven't heard of any problems with the healthcare system in those countries specifically.
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: They got rid of the bonus system because they got caught
Of course vets should get the care and funding they need, that's why dems fight against them being allowed to go to private health providers
Canada has about a tenth of the population we do, so there's that. Now show me figures for how many came from EVERY country in the world to get healthcare here, if you dare...
Please show evidence of this 'bonus program' if you're going to keep going on about it. What does Canada's population have to do with it? How does that factor in AT ALL? If anything we have more of a reason to do it, because we have far more to lose keeping the system we have.
Look up the cost of any procedure or medication in the US vs anywhere else in the world. Generally speaking, it's at LEAST double, and typically 3-10X as much. I brought up the Hep-C drug 'Sofosbuvir' in a thread a few months ago. In the US we pay $80,000 for a course of this medication. In Egypt it costs $300. That's roughly a 27,000% difference.
Cheaper is always better, right? That's why I drive a Honda instead of a Cadillac, that's why I use an asus laptop instead of an alien, eat hotdogs, not those yucky steaks!
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Dems are NOT fighting against them being allowed to go to private health providers. PLEASE stop with the straw man arguments! 
http://hotair.com/archives/2015/09/03/va-inspector-general-307k-veterans-died-waiting-for-health-care/
Truth hurts, doesn't it?
Can you please tell us where in your article it says democrats are fighting against vets being allowed to go to private health providers??? It's not there. Veterans are free to get private healthcare wherever they can afford it.
What's more, your article speaks out AGAINST the Government paying ANY money for private insurance for veterans:
Quote:
It’s time for the federal government to gradually start closing down the VA department. The move will probably take at least 20 years with a gradual reduction of benefits until the budget reaches zero. What the government could do instead is start partnering up with military charities. This doesn’t mean giving them money, but simply giving them access. If a vet is in the hospital, then the charities could be allowed to hand out information on what they do and how they help.
Are you kidding me?!? You believe veterans should rely on CHARITY for health care?!?!?
Please don't claim you "care" about veterans. 
Truth hurts, doesn't it?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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fivepointer
newbie
Registered: 08/03/02
Posts: 1,428
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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The ACA is great for me. Hope the Republiturds keep out of the White House.
Thanks Obama!
Edited by fivepointer (11/10/15 05:10 PM)
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 19 minutes, 16 seconds
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: Please show evidence of this 'bonus program' if you're going to keep going on about it.
Evidence please. Or don't you have any? Rush Limbaugh's utterance doesn't count! 
Quote:
What does Canada's population have to do with it? How does that factor in AT ALL? If anything we have more of a reason to do it, because we have far more to lose keeping the system we have.
Please respond to this. You right wingers like to cite population differences as a reason nothing but the GOP way will work in America, without any sort of supporting evidence. Population has no effect. Zero!
Quote:
Look up the cost of any procedure or medication in the US vs anywhere else in the world. Generally speaking, it's at LEAST double, and typically 3-10X as much. I brought up the Hep-C drug 'Sofosbuvir' in a thread a few months ago. In the US we pay $80,000 for a course of this medication. In Egypt it costs $300. That's roughly a 27,000% difference.
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Cheaper is always better, right? That's why I drive a Honda instead of a Cadillac, that's why I use an asus laptop instead of an alien, eat hotdogs, not those yucky steaks!
Cheaper is better, when you're talking about the EXACT SAME product, manufactured by the, wait for it, EXACT SAME COMPANY! It's a 27,000,000% difference for the exact same thing.
What is your fucking damage? Can't you understand a perfectly clear and straightforward argument?
By the way, I might add, for all that increased cost under the system you support (ie. Wasted fucking money), we have generally worse outcomes than more than 20 single payer countries.
As I said before, the whole world isn't wrong. You are.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (11/10/15 05:31 PM)
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22506262 - 11/10/15 05:41 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: we have generally worse outcomes than more than 20 single payer countries.
C'mon, our healthcare ranking isn't all THAT bad. 
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22506321 - 11/10/15 05:55 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: Please show evidence of this 'bonus program' if you're going to keep going on about it.
Evidence please. Or don't you have any? Rush Limbaugh's utterance doesn't count! 
Quote:
What does Canada's population have to do with it? How does that factor in AT ALL? If anything we have more of a reason to do it, because we have far more to lose keeping the system we have.
Please respond to this. You right wingers like to cite population differences as a reason nothing but the GOP way will work in America, without any sort of supporting evidence. Population has no effect. Zero!
Quote:
Look up the cost of any procedure or medication in the US vs anywhere else in the world. Generally speaking, it's at LEAST double, and typically 3-10X as much. I brought up the Hep-C drug 'Sofosbuvir' in a thread a few months ago. In the US we pay $80,000 for a course of this medication. In Egypt it costs $300. That's roughly a 27,000% difference.
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Cheaper is always better, right? That's why I drive a Honda instead of a Cadillac, that's why I use an asus laptop instead of an alien, eat hotdogs, not those yucky steaks!
Cheaper is better, when you're talking about the EXACT SAME product, manufactured by the, wait for it, EXACT SAME COMPANY! It's a 27,000,000% difference for the exact same thing.
What is your fucking damage? Can't you understand a perfectly clear and straightforward argument?
By the way, I might add, for all that increased cost under the system you support (ie. Wasted fucking money), we have generally worse outcomes than more than 20 single payer countries.
As I said before, the whole world isn't wrong. You are.
I tell ya what, you keep taking your foreign drugs and I'll keep taking my overpriced ones, how's that sound?
http://www.phrma.org/counterfeit-drugs
They are NOT the same thing in many cases, maybe you don't give a shit about potency, but a lot of us do, so kindly take your hate speech elsewhere.
http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/health/watered-down-chemo-drugs-given-to-1-200-cancer-patients-1.1341425
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/sep/03/life-extending-cancer-drugs-to-be-axed-by-nhs
But hey, it's CHEAPER!
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Do you even bother reading your own links???
Your first link pointed to a page that discussed counterfeit drugs IN THE UNITED STATES (which also includes links to other countries).
Your second link didn't work, and I really don't know what relevance your third link has to anything.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 19 minutes, 16 seconds
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The drugs I was referring to are made by the exact same American based company. They are the exact same drugs. You're a fucking... 
Keep jerking off dude.
As Falcon's video stated, our healthcare system is rated 37th best worldwide, yet we pay 40% more on average than any other nation.
I know facts don't even pierce the dermis stretched over that thick fucking head of yours, but I present them anyway.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 2,788
Loc: Texas
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Do you even bother reading your own links???
Your first link pointed to a page that discussed counterfeit drugs IN THE UNITED STATES (which also includes links to other countries).
Your second link didn't work, and I really don't know what relevance your third link has to anything.
dude it's like talking to a wall
well except this one calls you an idiot and screams jargon over what you're trying to say
-------------------- Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Quote:
The news isn’t all bad. We smoke less than the citizens of most other countries, consume less alcohol, generally have lower blood pressure, and are more likely to be screened and treated for cancer. And yet the bottom line is undeniable: The life expectancy for Americans at birth now trails that of 25 other countries.
I'm sure paying people to stay at home and get fat and lazy has NOTHING to do with it either
http://www.nationaljournal.com/next-america/newsdesk/u-s-health-care-is-best-worst
Quote:
Later in life, we develop diabetes, heart disease, and chronic lung problems more frequently than our international counterparts do.
Quote:
The availability of advanced medical technology and sophisticated training of physicians are cited as driving motivators for growth in foreigners traveling to the U.S. for medical care,[68] whereas the low costs for hospital stays and major/complex procedures at Western-accredited medical facilities abroad are cited as major motivators for American travelers.
Quality healthcare vs cheap healthcare
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_tourism
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 19 minutes, 16 seconds
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
The news isn’t all bad. We smoke less than the citizens of most other countries, consume less alcohol, generally have lower blood pressure, and are more likely to be screened and treated for cancer. And yet the bottom line is undeniable: The life expectancy for Americans at birth now trails that of 25 other countries.
I'm sure paying people to stay at home and get fat and lazy has NOTHING to do with it either
http://www.nationaljournal.com/next-america/newsdesk/u-s-health-care-is-best-worst
Quote:
Later in life, we develop diabetes, heart disease, and chronic lung problems more frequently than our international counterparts do.
Quote:
The availability of advanced medical technology and sophisticated training of physicians are cited as driving motivators for growth in foreigners traveling to the U.S. for medical care,[68] whereas the low costs for hospital stays and major/complex procedures at Western-accredited medical facilities abroad are cited as major motivators for American travelers.
Quality healthcare vs cheap healthcare
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_tourism
It's not so simple as quality vs cost. As I said earlier, in Egypt you can buy the EXACT same drug from the EXACT same American company for $300, but in America it costs $80,000. It is the EXACT same quality. EXACTLY!
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*


Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: Patlal]
#22506595 - 11/10/15 06:57 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Patlal said: Will you guys get your heads out of your asses and go universal already. How many more clues do you need in order to realize that your fucked up private system is fucked up?
Stubborn America. Sees countries around them implement successful systems and programs. Does the opposite and fails....
What part of Canadians going over the border to pay for health care didn't make a dent in your fucking thick skull?
When you're right, you're right... 50000 Canadians go to the US for care. Roughly 0.1% of the population. Solid point Zap
God I love Canada
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said:
Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Patlal said: Will you guys get your heads out of your asses and go universal already. How many more clues do you need in order to realize that your fucked up private system is fucked up?
Stubborn America. Sees countries around them implement successful systems and programs. Does the opposite and fails....
What part of Canadians going over the border to pay for health care didn't make a dent in your fucking thick skull?
When you're right, you're right... 50000 Canadians go to the US for care. Roughly 0.1% of the population. Solid point Zap
God I love Canada
me too, when I was a teenager, the canadian girls ALWAYS put out, the "Merican chicks, not so much...
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: Patlal]
#22514960 - 11/12/15 05:19 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Patlal said: Will you guys get your heads out of your asses and go universal already. How many more clues do you need in order to realize that your fucked up private system is fucked up?
Stubborn America. Sees countries around them implement successful systems and programs. Does the opposite and fails....
What part of Canadians going over the border to pay for health care didn't make a dent in your fucking thick skull?
When you're right, you're right... 50000 Canadians go to the US for care. Roughly 0.1% of the population. Solid point Zap
Why should any of them go there?
--------------------
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22514970 - 11/12/15 05:21 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Patlal said: Will you guys get your heads out of your asses and go universal already. How many more clues do you need in order to realize that your fucked up private system is fucked up?
Stubborn America. Sees countries around them implement successful systems and programs. Does the opposite and fails....
What part of Canadians going over the border to pay for health care didn't make a dent in your fucking thick skull?
What part of americans going to Canada for healthcare didnt make a dent in your thick fucking skull!?! Lmao!
Single payer is clearly the way to go. Low-information idiots are the only people who can't fucking see that. The whole world pays less for healthcare, and most of them have better outcomes. Conservatives need to stop swallowing propagandist garbage.
The whole world isn't wrong. You are.
What Americans go to Canada for health care? Single Payer is a linguistic fraud. Millions of people will pay for the health care of hundreds of millions.
--------------------
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: fivepointer]
#22514974 - 11/12/15 05:23 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
fivepointer said: The ACA is great for me. Hope the Republiturds keep out of the White House.
Thanks Obama!
Welfare case. The only people who like Obamacare
--------------------
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: zappaisgod]
#22515050 - 11/12/15 05:43 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
fivepointer said: The ACA is great for me. Hope the Republiturds keep out of the White House.
Thanks Obama!
Welfare case. The only people who like Obamacare
People with pre-existing conditions?
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 19 minutes, 16 seconds
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
fivepointer said: The ACA is great for me. Hope the Republiturds keep out of the White House.
Thanks Obama!
Welfare case. The only people who like Obamacare
People with pre-existing conditions?
Lol... any woman who's ever had a yeast infection?
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
fivepointer said: The ACA is great for me. Hope the Republiturds keep out of the White House.
Thanks Obama!
Welfare case. The only people who like Obamacare
People with pre-existing conditions?
So the govt had to spend trillions of dollars and regulate 1/5 of the economy to write a bill that would force insurance companies to provide insurance for "pre existing conditions"?
Yeah, that makes perfect sense
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 19 minutes, 16 seconds
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
paperbackwriter said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
fivepointer said: The ACA is great for me. Hope the Republiturds keep out of the White House.
Thanks Obama!
Welfare case. The only people who like Obamacare
People with pre-existing conditions?
So the govt had to spend trillions of dollars and regulate 1/5 of the economy to write a bill that would force insurance companies to provide insurance for "pre existing conditions"?
Yeah, that makes perfect sense
... Trillions of dollars?
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: Bigbadwooof] 1
#22516844 - 11/13/15 05:52 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: The ACA is great for me. Hope the Republiturds keep out of the White House.
Thanks Obama!
Welfare case. The only people who like Obamacare
People with pre-existing conditions?
So the govt had to spend trillions of dollars and regulate 1/5 of the economy to write a bill that would force insurance companies to provide insurance for "pre existing conditions"?
Yeah, that makes perfect sense
... Trillions of dollars? 
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/cbo-obamacare-to-cost-2-trillion-over-the-next-decade/article/2559276
Yeah dog, TRILLIONS
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
paperbackwriter said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
fivepointer said: The ACA is great for me. Hope the Republiturds keep out of the White House.
Thanks Obama!
Welfare case. The only people who like Obamacare
People with pre-existing conditions?
So the govt had to spend trillions of dollars and regulate 1/5 of the economy to write a bill that would force insurance companies to provide insurance for "pre existing conditions"?
Yeah, that makes perfect sense
I'm not saying there's not a better way. I'm a fan of single payer personally. But pretending like welfare queens are the only one's who benefit is bullshit.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: ... Trillions of dollars? 
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/cbo-obamacare-to-cost-2-trillion-over-the-next-decade/article/2559276
Yeah dog, TRILLIONS
That's the cost over 10 years. Anyone can pretend something is more expensive than it really is by looking at the cost over an extended period of time. Heck, I'm surprised they didn't use a 100 year time frame (although that's probably because it would have been debunked much quicker).
Also, that number does NOT include the savings and additional revenue that come from Obamacare, such as a $716 billion decrease in Medicare costs.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 19 minutes, 16 seconds
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You said he government spent trillions... that's a 10 year projection, and the article was written this year, so we haven't 'spent trillions'. Also, as falcon pointed out, it alleviates costs of other social programs. On top of that, they receive tax revenue from people who refuse to get insurance.
It's really a small price to pay to save children's lives, isn't it? Oh, I forgot, you only care about unborn children.
We should have had a single-payer system, instead of what Republicans watered it down to. Even many conservatives in this country support single-payer.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*


Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22518258 - 11/13/15 02:05 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Canada's Healthcare system is superior in every conceivable aspect. From quality, recovery rates, financial efficiency, consumer satisfaction. Its just better.
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Quote:
It's really a small price to pay to save children's lives, isn't it? Oh, I forgot, you only care about unborn children.
all poor children are covered by medicaid, you know, the single payer system for the poor
you're argument is logically flawed on this one, big time
Quote:
We should have had a single-payer system, instead of what Republicans watered it down to. Even many conservatives in this country support single-payer.
are you retarded? obamacare was passed when democrats had both houses and the white house, they could have passed whatever the fuck they wanted to, thats a fact, repubs were powerless to stop them. EVERY SINGLE REPUBLICAN VOTED AGAINST IT! the fact you still blame them for it, shows your stupidity and political ignorance...
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 19 minutes, 16 seconds
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
It's really a small price to pay to save children's lives, isn't it? Oh, I forgot, you only care about unborn children.
all poor children are covered by medicaid, you know, the single payer system for the poor
you're argument is logically flawed on this one, big time
Quote:
We should have had a single-payer system, instead of what Republicans watered it down to. Even many conservatives in this country support single-payer.
are you retarded? obamacare was passed when democrats had both houses and the white house, they could have passed whatever the fuck they wanted to, thats a fact, repubs were powerless to stop them. EVERY SINGLE REPUBLICAN VOTED AGAINST IT! the fact you still blame them for it, shows your stupidity and political ignorance...
Hmm, I wonder, do you get warnings for flaming? Or is it only me and ppw?
I guess we'll find out.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22520480 - 11/13/15 10:25 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hmm, I wonder, do you get warnings for flaming? Or is it only me and ppw?
I guess we'll find out.
shit man, Burger and I get banned, you get a "warning" LMFAO!
I used to report every other post of yours insulting me, I gave up, the mods obviously like the libs more, waste of my time, Ill take a ban anyday for calling shit the way I see it
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 19 minutes, 16 seconds
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
Hmm, I wonder, do you get warnings for flaming? Or is it only me and ppw?
I guess we'll find out.
shit man, Burger and I get banned, you get a "warning" LMFAO!
I used to report every other post of yours insulting me, I gave up, the mods obviously like the libs more, waste of my time, Ill take a ban anyday for calling shit the way I see it
I didn't realize you had been banned. Has burgerbrain been permanently banned yet?
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22520591 - 11/13/15 10:52 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
Hmm, I wonder, do you get warnings for flaming? Or is it only me and ppw?
I guess we'll find out.
shit man, Burger and I get banned, you get a "warning" LMFAO!
I used to report every other post of yours insulting me, I gave up, the mods obviously like the libs more, waste of my time, Ill take a ban anyday for calling shit the way I see it
I didn't realize you had been banned. Has burgerbrain been permanently banned yet?
nope they just gave him a week, me a day, haven't you seen his posts? or are you so high on your Bernie juice you don't see them?
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover



Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
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hostileuniverse said:
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Hmm, I wonder, do you get warnings for flaming? Or is it only me and ppw?
I guess we'll find out.
shit man, Burger and I get banned, you get a "warning" LMFAO!
I used to report every other post of yours insulting me, I gave up, the mods obviously like the libs more, waste of my time, Ill take a ban anyday for calling shit the way I see it
I didn't realize you had been banned. Has burgerbrain been permanently banned yet?
nope they just gave him a week, me a day, haven't you seen his posts? or are you so high on your Bernie juice you don't see them?
fucking Bernie juice?! HAHAHAHA awesome
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 19 minutes, 16 seconds
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
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Hmm, I wonder, do you get warnings for flaming? Or is it only me and ppw?
I guess we'll find out.
shit man, Burger and I get banned, you get a "warning" LMFAO!
I used to report every other post of yours insulting me, I gave up, the mods obviously like the libs more, waste of my time, Ill take a ban anyday for calling shit the way I see it
I didn't realize you had been banned. Has burgerbrain been permanently banned yet?
nope they just gave him a week, me a day, haven't you seen his posts? or are you so high on your Bernie juice you don't see them?
I blocked him a while ago. It just got to be too much w/ that dude.
I only get high on Bernie juice on the weekends, fyi.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22520723 - 11/13/15 11:39 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
I blocked him a while ago. It just got to be too much w/ that dude.
I only get high on Bernie juice on the weekends, fyi.
blocking is the cowards way out, ya gotta keep a close on your enemies, right?
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 19 minutes, 16 seconds
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
I blocked him a while ago. It just got to be too much w/ that dude.
I only get high on Bernie juice on the weekends, fyi.
blocking is the cowards way out, ya gotta keep a close on your enemies, right?
Nah... I don't like wasting my time on garbage, and if I don't block him, I end up giving it more attention than deserved.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22521286 - 11/14/15 07:41 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
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I blocked him a while ago. It just got to be too much w/ that dude.
I only get high on Bernie juice on the weekends, fyi.
blocking is the cowards way out, ya gotta keep a close on your enemies, right?
Nah... I don't like wasting my time on garbage, and if I don't block him, I end up giving it more attention than deserved.
so you're saying you lack self discipline? lol, cmon man, you set your self up for that one!
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa
Last seen: 6 hours, 33 minutes
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Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: Canada's Healthcare system is superior in every conceivable aspect. From quality, recovery rates, financial efficiency, consumer satisfaction. Its just better.
Let's see if Zap understands this statement
--------------------
Edited by Patlal (11/14/15 08:06 AM)
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: Patlal]
#22521309 - 11/14/15 07:53 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: Canada's Healthcare system is superior in every conceivable aspect. From quality, recovery rates, financial efficiency, consumer satisfaction. Its just better.
Let's if Zap understands this statement
that must be why those that can afford to come to the US for treatment, do...
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*


Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan
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Must be why your politicians cross the border to come get our Healthcare and an estimated 5 million of your citizens flee your garbage system to seek care elsewhere every year. Canada being on of the primary destinations. The number of patients coming here is greater then the number leaving on a per capita basis. Even your doctor's make the migration at a signifigant rate. Your health cares privitized trash.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said: that must be why those that can afford to come to the US for treatment, do...
No one claimed our health care wasn't great for the wealthy.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover



Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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hostileuniverse said: that must be why those that can afford to come to the US for treatment, do...
No one claimed our health care wasn't great for the wealthy.
LOL how will requiring by law that people buy health insurance change that?
Nearly half of the 17 insurance marketplaces set up by the states and the District under President Obama’s health law are struggling financially, presenting state officials with an unexpected and serious challenge five years after the passage of the landmark Affordable Care Act. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/almost-half-of-obamacare-exchanges-are-struggling-over-their-future/2015/05/01/f32eeea2-ea03-11e4-aae1-d642717d8afa_story.html
Federal Health Exchange Approved Fake Claims http://www.wsj.com/articles/federal-health-exchange-approved-fake-claims-1437005063
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: Must be why your politicians cross the border to come get our Healthcare and an estimated 5 million of your citizens flee your garbage system to seek care elsewhere every year. Canada being on of the primary destinations. The number of patients coming here is greater then the number leaving on a per capita basis. Even your doctor's make the migration at a signifigant rate. Your health cares privitized trash.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/06/canadian.health.care.system/
http://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/article/361283
http://m.huffpost.com/ca/entry/4275324
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*


Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan
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90% of Canadians support socialized healthcare
You can cherry pick reports all day man. We have a near unanimous undying love for our Healthcare system.
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: 90% of Canadians support socialized healthcare
You can cherry pick reports all day man. We have a near unanimous undying love for our Healthcare system.
Hitler had pretty good support too, morality shouldn't be dictated by popularity
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*


Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan
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Captilism has no place in healthcare. It may work when consumers have freedom of choice in their participation but nobody decides to get sick or injured. To seriously suggest socialist Healthcare is immoral is sick, and just goes to show me how throughly you've been indoctrinated into the defense of privitized healthcare. Its a terrible system that fucks the sick and ill out of the care they have a personal right to. Its grotesque to pursue profits off the sick and dying.
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: Captilism has no place in healthcare. It may work when consumers have freedom of choice in their participation but nobody decides to get sick or injured. To seriously suggest socialist Healthcare is immoral is sick, and just goes to show me how throughly you've been indoctrinated into the defense of privitized healthcare. Its a terrible system that fucks the sick and ill out of the care they have a personal right to. Its grotesque to pursue profits off the sick and dying.
Is it grotesque to pursue profits off the hungry? How about the cold? The homeless?
If healthcare is a right, that should only mean that you have the right to pursue the best healthcare, not that someone is obligated to provide it to you.
Quote:
if your mere desire for something, anything, imposes a duty on other people to satisfy you, then they have no choice in their lives, no say in what they do, they have no liberty, they cannot pursue their happiness. Your "right" to happiness at their expense means that they become rightless serfs, i.e., your slaves. Your right to anything at others' expense means that they become rightless.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: Captilism has no place in healthcare. It may work when consumers have freedom of choice in their participation but nobody decides to get sick or injured. To seriously suggest socialist Healthcare is immoral is sick, and just goes to show me how throughly you've been indoctrinated into the defense of privitized healthcare. Its a terrible system that fucks the sick and ill out of the care they have a personal right to. Its grotesque to pursue profits off the sick and dying.
If there is no place for capitalism in health care why do doctors, nurses and medical administrators insist on being paid? Why do the people who build the hospitals insist on being paid? Why do the researchers insist on being paid? Why do the manufacturers' workers insist on being paid? Hell, some of them even go on strike for more money, the greedy fucks.
--------------------
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*


Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
If healthcare is a right, that should only mean that you have the right to pursue the best healthcare, not that someone is obligated to provide it to you.
Quote:
if your mere desire for something, anything, imposes a duty on other people to satisfy you, then they have no choice in their lives, no say in what they do, they have no liberty, they cannot pursue their happiness. Your "right" to happiness at their expense means that they become rightless serfs, i.e., your slaves. Your right to anything at others' expense means that they become rightless.
Youre first three examples are ridiculous, especially the homeless. The other two because the market suffices in supplying those in a fair manner and where they fall short socialism neatly meets their demands.
Good health is not a desire, or want. Its a basic necessity to adequately be able to provide for oneself. It is not forced slavery to need someone to mend your leg. Its altruistic to help your fellow man in that situation. Noble for us to share the load the same way we share the costs of roads and schools. To privitize something a person has no choice in purchasing ensures that they will be enslaved when they require it's services. Not by desire or choice, and the people who set prices are tacitly aware of that.
Zappa your points arnt even worth addressing because nobody expects that stuff to happen for free nor does it.
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Let's just all work for free like happy little commies...
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
If healthcare is a right, that should only mean that you have the right to pursue the best healthcare, not that someone is obligated to provide it to you.
Quote:
if your mere desire for something, anything, imposes a duty on other people to satisfy you, then they have no choice in their lives, no say in what they do, they have no liberty, they cannot pursue their happiness. Your "right" to happiness at their expense means that they become rightless serfs, i.e., your slaves. Your right to anything at others' expense means that they become rightless.
Youre first three examples are ridiculous, especially the homeless. The other two because the market suffices in supplying those in a fair manner and where they fall short socialism neatly meets their demands.
Good health is not a desire, or want. Its a basic necessity to adequately be able to provide for oneself. It is not forced slavery to need someone to mend your leg. Its altruistic to help your fellow man in that situation. Noble for us to share the load the same way we share the costs of roads and schools. To privitize something a person has no choice in purchasing ensures that they will be enslaved when they require it's services. Not by desire or choice, and the people who set prices are tacitly aware of that.
Zappa your points arnt even worth addressing because nobody expects that stuff to happen for free nor does it.
Food is not a desire, it's a need, so is heat in the winter, nice job skirting the questions
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa
Last seen: 6 hours, 33 minutes
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Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: 90% of Canadians support socialized healthcare
You can cherry pick reports all day man. We have a near unanimous undying love for our Healthcare system.
WTF 90???
Where the hell are these mysterious 10%?
I've never ever met anyone that said anything against universal health care.
--------------------
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: Patlal]
#22523574 - 11/14/15 05:28 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: 90% of Canadians support socialized healthcare
You can cherry pick reports all day man. We have a near unanimous undying love for our Healthcare system.
WTF 90???
Where the hell are these mysterious 10%?
I've never ever met anyone that said anything against universal health care.
I've met plenty, but personal experiences are not facts,
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*


Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan
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Skirted what. My reasoning is right there for you to see. Those are all fundementally different then ones health in that they're in the person's control. Do you need me to spell it out for you?
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Do people NEED food to live? The answer is yes, and that's why you're skirting it, because you know that the logic of a fucking right being applied to all things we need and have no control over is fucking retarded.
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*


Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan
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Yes but everyone's perfectly capable of working and buying food. A 400,000 dollar bill for a heart attack however will destroy the overwhelming majority of people's lives. Dont get all mad because your shit logic doesn't hold up.
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: Yes but everyone's perfectly capable of working and buying food. A 400,000 dollar bill for a heart attack however will destroy the overwhelming majority of people's lives. Dont get all mad because your shit logic doesn't hold up.
Then why should everything from routine checkups to the common cold be "free", wouldn't it make more sense to limit it to major operations and whatnot paid for?
and why the fuck should I be forced to pay for some fatasses surgery who destroyed his arteries eating cheeseburgers everyday? Fact is, a lot of people's needs when it comes to medicine are preventable and yes, they do have control over it...
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*


Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan
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Because its for the greater good. There really is no other reason. I and 90% of Canadians have no qualms about it. Every other developed nation out there doesn't either. America's literally the only place, and it costs the states more tax dollars to run then our socialized service does while not even providing it freely. On a pure GDP basis the states spent 15.7% of its budget while Canada spent 9.9% France 10.2 and Germany 10.4 back in 2006. So honestly I have no idea what you americans are defending when it gets down to pure numbers and facts.
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: Because its for the greater good. There really is no other reason. I and 90% of Canadians have no qualms about it. Every other developed nation out there doesn't either. America's literally the only place, and it costs the states more tax dollars to run then our socialized service does while not even providing it freely. On a pure GDP basis the states spent 15.7% of its budget while Canada spent 9.9% France 10.2 and Germany 10.4 back in 2006. So honestly I have no idea what you americans are defending when it gets down to pure numbers and facts.
I don't like waiting lists and rationing
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*


Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan
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To me personally that's the dumbest rationalization americans make. In terms of hours spent waiting versus hours spent making the money to pay for the visit youre always at a loss in terms of how much time you're investing into that visit. I still don't see the appeal.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: Yes but everyone's perfectly capable of working and buying food. A 400,000 dollar bill for a heart attack however will destroy the overwhelming majority of people's lives. Dont get all mad because your shit logic doesn't hold up.
That is what bankruptcy is for though, right? It protects you and your home so that it doesn't destroy your life. If that is not what its for, what is it for? Too many restaurants and vacations? Being irresponsible?
Not saying this is ideal, but it's not going to destroy your life... There are protections in place for this very scenario.
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*


Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: DieCommie]
#22524216 - 11/14/15 08:16 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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In that example if bankruptcy was declared where would the debt go?
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Don't know, society would have to pay for it some way. But that is besides the point that I quoted. Nobody's life is getting destroyed by medical debt. Their standard of living may not be as high as they want... but that is almost always the case anyway.
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*


Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: DieCommie] 1
#22524396 - 11/14/15 08:37 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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So in other words it gets shifted elsewhere, while everything non necessary is liquidated and their quality of life and credit drop dramatically. Sounds like a lose lose to me.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Shifting the burden elsewhere is exactly what you are advocating though... Yea, they will have trouble borrowing afterwards and will have less cash. Its a bummer, I get that. Its not the destruction of their life, not even close.
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*


Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: DieCommie]
#22524460 - 11/14/15 08:45 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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It is. Its exactly why I don't understand why you think bankruptcy is a better alternative when socialized healthcare costs you the tax payer less and nobody needs to declare anything to use it.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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I never said it was. I'm calling you out on your exaggeration and sensationalist framing of bankruptcy. Having medical debt (which often doesn't even need bankruptcy) does not destroy anybody's life. You either lack perspective on what a real destroyed life is, or you are engaging in hyperbole to make a point. (I'm guessing its the latter.)
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*


Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: DieCommie]
#22524519 - 11/14/15 08:51 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm being hyperbolic but I'm sure you understand the points I'm making none the less.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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I understand most of them, and agree with some of them. I hope you understand the point I tried to explicitly make and don't read more into it than that. Medical debt is not hard to get discharged and it often does not affect one's credit the same as "regular" debt. If I got a 400k bill without insurance, I would simply not pay it. Not much else would happen.
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: To me personally that's the dumbest rationalization americans make. In terms of hours spent waiting versus hours spent making the money to pay for the visit youre always at a loss in terms of how much time you're investing into that visit. I still don't see the appeal.
Fair enough, you're fine with elected politicians making your medical choices and decisions. Good for you. Plus, I'd rather work my ass off and enjoy my money than have it go to people that make poor health choices...
So here in America, if a person goes to the gym, eats right, doesn't smoke and takes care of themself can get a much lower premium than the guy who drinks, smokes, and is lazy and obese. In Canada, both would pay the same for healthcare, and you think that's fair, correct?
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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In Canada the person who makes more would pay more.
I think a good way to sell single payer health care to people who like meritocracy is to tie the funding to things like precooked food and restaurants, alcohol, tobacco and other dangerous activities like high impact sports and bad driving. That works the incentive to live healthy into the system while still making sure everybody gets covered. Because lets face it, Americans are fat and gluttonous. Even with a single payer Canada like system our cost would be higher than there percentage of their GDP.
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: DieCommie]
#22525037 - 11/14/15 09:50 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
n Canada the person who makes more would pay more.
Wow, really? Is that some sort of new math?
Didn't really think I had to spell out the part aboot making similar wages... Next time I'll include some pictures for you too, maybe a pie chart(no that's not food)
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*


Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: To me personally that's the dumbest rationalization americans make. In terms of hours spent waiting versus hours spent making the money to pay for the visit youre always at a loss in terms of how much time you're investing into that visit. I still don't see the appeal.
Fair enough, you're fine with elected politicians making your medical choices and decisions. Good for you. Plus, I'd rather work my ass off and enjoy my money than have it go to people that make poor health choices...
So here in America, if a person goes to the gym, eats right, doesn't smoke and takes care of themself can get a much lower premium than the guy who drinks, smokes, and is lazy and obese. In Canada, both would pay the same for healthcare, and you think that's fair, correct?

You let your elected politicians make your choices and decisions all the time. The fuck kind of rational is that
And so what? None of us have a problem with the few bad apples you're describing. For the most part it is a perfectly fair and reasonable setup yet you act like they're personally gonna be clawing vast sums of money out of your pocket. The truth is that implemented correctly you'd be paying less, signifigantly less.
And no commie. That's not really a sound defense of privitized healthcare. America's overall health is comparable to Canadas.
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 19 minutes, 16 seconds
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I wouldn't say healthcare is a 'right', and neither is food. We are privileged to live in a society which is capable of providing those things to everyone. The way I see it, society is more functional when we pull together to ensure these things. It really comes down to priorities of society at large. Do we find it ethical to have a society which produces billionaires off the backs of labor, but allows children (and adults) to starve or go without healthcare?
Some people are fine with letting people die of easily curable diseases, and some are not. Some are ok with letting people starve, in an effort to concentrate wealth and produce billionaires, others are not. That's really what it comes down to. If the majority elects to provide healthcare to all at the expense of producing a billionaire class, then healthcare can be made a right of citizens. It is not an innate right, however, and i don't really see how anyone can argue that it is.
I don't believe any right is innate. Rights are decided by society at large.
From an economic and ethical standpoint, universal healthcare only makes sense. The only people who actually understand this topic that don't support public healthcare are those who benefit from the plight of the misfortunate in this system. Most of us do not benefit in any way from the current healthcare system. It creates instability in society, and it is incredibly inadequate by virtually any measure you choose to observe.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22526382 - 11/15/15 06:39 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
You let your elected politicians make your choices and decisions all the time. The fuck kind of rational is that
Yep, and I vehemently oppose it, if you've read anything I've posted besides this, you would see that. I don't want a nanny state, most Americans don't. Letting govt control our lives is not what being a free society is all about. You obviously didn't read any of the links I posted because if you had, you would know that many Canadian doctors are opening PRIVATE practices and their clients are loving it. Proof that a free market based system, is better, more efficient, and more adaptable than all this "one size fits all" single payer BS. Are we not all unique individuals? Than why shouldn't our healthcare reflect that?
Quote:
A 2005 decision by the Supreme Court of Canada struck down a Quebec law that banned private insurance.
Quote:
“When we change the system to allow competition, wait lists will go away.”
http://www.medibid.com/blog/2012/07/paying-a-doctor-for-care-still-illegal-in-canada/
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What’s driving all that growth in private clinics? Dr. Brian Day, the owner of private Cambie Surgery Centre and former president of the Canadian Medical Association says the proliferation is a function of the inability of the public system to meet demand. Echoing an oft-stated belief that two-tier health care works well in the United Kingdom and Australia, Day says that “out of every developed country on earth, Canada is the only one where the government is trying to deliver all the health services. … Some competition is good for the public system
http://m.cmaj.ca/content/183/8/E437.full
So while many doctors and patients in Canada are realizing the shortfalls of single payer, America is pushing full steam ahead for it, well, at least the blind ones are...
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 19 minutes, 16 seconds
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
You let your elected politicians make your choices and decisions all the time. The fuck kind of rational is that
Yep, and I vehemently oppose it, if you've read anything I've posted besides this, you would see that. I don't want a nanny state, most Americans don't. Letting govt control our lives is not what being a free society is all about. You obviously didn't read any of the links I posted because if you had, you would know that many Canadian doctors are opening PRIVATE practices and their clients are loving it. Proof that a free market based system, is better, more efficient, and more adaptable than all this "one size fits all" single payer BS. Are we not all unique individuals? Than why shouldn't our healthcare reflect that?
Quote:
A 2005 decision by the Supreme Court of Canada struck down a Quebec law that banned private insurance.
Quote:
“When we change the system to allow competition, wait lists will go away.”
http://www.medibid.com/blog/2012/07/paying-a-doctor-for-care-still-illegal-in-canada/
Quote:
What’s driving all that growth in private clinics? Dr. Brian Day, the owner of private Cambie Surgery Centre and former president of the Canadian Medical Association says the proliferation is a function of the inability of the public system to meet demand. Echoing an oft-stated belief that two-tier health care works well in the United Kingdom and Australia, Day says that “out of every developed country on earth, Canada is the only one where the government is trying to deliver all the health services. … Some competition is good for the public system
http://m.cmaj.ca/content/183/8/E437.full
So while many doctors and patients in Canada are realizing the shortfalls of single payer, America is pushing full steam ahead for it, well, at least the blind ones are...
Lol... many? 10% or less? I thought you believed in Democracy, not minority rule! Lol
Many Americans believe that slavery was a good thing. I hope we're not going to re-implement that anytime soon to appease the <10%.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22527840 - 11/15/15 02:52 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: A 400,000 dollar bill for a heart attack however will destroy the overwhelming majority of people's lives. Dont get all mad because your shit logic doesn't hold up. . . . if bankruptcy was declared where would the debt go? . . . it gets shifted elsewhere, while everything non necessary is liquidated and their quality of life and credit drop dramatically. Sounds like a lose lose to me.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (11/15/15 02:57 PM)
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said: you're fine with elected politicians making your medical choices and decisions. Good for you.
You're fine with private insurance companies making your medical choices and decisions? Their goal is to make as much as possible by giving you as little care as possible.
Good for you!
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 19 minutes, 16 seconds
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: you're fine with elected politicians making your medical choices and decisions. Good for you.
You're fine with private insurance companies making your medical choices and decisions? Their goal is to make as much as possible by giving you as little care as possible.
Good for you!

Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: A 400,000 dollar bill for a heart attack however will destroy the overwhelming majority of people's lives. Dont get all mad because your shit logic doesn't hold up. . . . if bankruptcy was declared where would the debt go? . . . it gets shifted elsewhere, while everything non necessary is liquidated and their quality of life and credit drop dramatically. Sounds like a lose lose to me.

^^^ What they said.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*


Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22528510 - 11/15/15 05:51 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Besides. It looks like the free market bombs at delivering kids.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/12/us-health-pregnancy-idUSKCN0T10LO20151112#fE4cLCCbtrgVEwhu.97
Privitized healthcare kills kids. Literally.
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: you're fine with elected politicians making your medical choices and decisions. Good for you.
You're fine with private insurance companies making your medical choices and decisions? Their goal is to make as much as possible by giving you as little care as possible.
Good for you!
wow, you're either really stupid or just an asshole
anyways, the difference is I do physicals every year and can actually negotiate for the care I need, and because I actually take care of myself, my premiums are lower, thats a fact, most insurance companies, including mine, even reimburse gym memberships nowadays. under single payer, the fat slob who drinks a fifth of vodka everyday, (whose in the same wage bracket, (gotta ad that in for the other libtard)) pays the exact same for equal coverage, thats the definition of retarded...
of course this was until obowelmovementcare, now of course I have to buy a bunch of shit I don't need, and of course this has doubled my premiums...
I'd put my faith in big corporations looking out for my best interest any day of the week over some pencil neck govt schmuck, who just like obamacare, has no fucking intention of living under the same rules and regulations as they force on us...
for "free thinkers" y'all sure are a bunch of freakin robots...
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said: wow, you're either really stupid or just an asshole
I was being an asshole, but I guess you didn't realize the "Good for you!" comment was exactly what you said to Bodhi of Ankou when you were being an asshole to him.
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: under single payer, the fat slob who drinks a fifth of vodka everyday, (whose in the same wage bracket, (gotta ad that in for the other libtard)) pays the exact same for equal coverage, thats the definition of retarded...
Single payer doesn't have to be that way. In fact, I'd support a system where healthy people got a tax refund.
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hostileuniverse said: I'd put my faith in big corporations looking out for my best interest any day of the week over some pencil neck govt schmuck
for "free thinkers" y'all sure are a bunch of freakin robots...
But private insurance corporations aren't looking out for your best interest, they're looking out for their bottom line! That you actually believe they're looking out for your best interest shows what a freakin robot you are!!!
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*


Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan
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It always amazes me how well trained they are. Take for example how Martin Shrekli jacked up the price of a life saving medicine from $7.50 a pill to $750 overnight or the recent merger between allergan and Pfizer. Coupled with the merger between walgreens and rightaid the medicinal landscape has essentially turned into a duoppoly. Somethings that's more a sign of economic rot rather then free market dynamism. The only purpose of these mergers is to strengthen holds in the market and drive out competition so they can scale up prices against powerless consumers. You seriously think they value your life over your pocket?
B-b-but muh free markets would never betray me!
Dont even get me started about how ridiculously overpriced simple operations are in your country, or all the horror stories I'll seriously have no trouble pulling up. Your Free-market™ rhetorics nothing more then some cheap platitude they've successfully sold to you.
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: Yes but everyone's perfectly capable of working and buying food. A 400,000 dollar bill for a heart attack however will destroy the overwhelming majority of people's lives. Dont get all mad because your shit logic doesn't hold up.
Then why should everything from routine checkups to the common cold be "free", wouldn't it make more sense to limit it to major operations and whatnot paid for?
So people will get them. Preventative care saves money, regardless of who pays the bil.
Quote:
and why the fuck should I be forced to pay for some fatasses surgery who destroyed his arteries eating cheeseburgers everyday? Fact is, a lot of people's needs when it comes to medicine are preventable and yes, they do have control over it...
Subsidizing a single payer model with junk food and other sin tax sounds good to me.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 19 minutes, 16 seconds
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: Subsidizing a single payer model with junk food and other sin tax sounds good to me.
Brilliant. I wish they weren't called 'Sin' taxes, but these sort of taxes should be used to fix the problems associated with them. This is a great way to handle the problem HU has with single payer though.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*


Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 19 minutes, 16 seconds
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Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: And this little gem right here. What happens when they default on that debt? Oh yeah, you pay for it anyways. 'Murica

It's funny because it's true!
Also...
'MURICA
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22529103 - 11/15/15 07:51 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
paperbackwriter said: Subsidizing a single payer model with junk food and other sin tax sounds good to me.
Brilliant. I wish they weren't called 'Sin' taxes, but these sort of taxes should be used to fix the problems associated with them. This is a great way to handle the problem HU has with single payer though.
that won't fix the other problems I've addressed though...
Quote:
Single payer doesn't have to be that way. In fact, I'd support a system where healthy people got a tax refund.
but its not, I'd love a tax refund for being a healthy MOFO, but thats not the way its set up, until then, fuck you, fuck you, you cool, and fuck you!
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*


Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan
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Melts
/thread
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: Melts
/thread
ghey...
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Shroom Detective
Stranger
Registered: 07/02/14
Posts: 1,699
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: zappaisgod]
#22535087 - 11/16/15 09:26 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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-------------------- "I, Falcon91Wolvrn03, am a BIG FAT LIAR; so much so, that my pants are on fire."
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Your signature violates rule #2 of this forum.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: In that example if bankruptcy was declared where would the debt go?
Do you really not know how bankruptcy works?
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fivepointer
newbie
Registered: 08/03/02
Posts: 1,428
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: zappaisgod]
#22545877 - 11/19/15 09:33 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: In that example if bankruptcy was declared where would the debt go?
Do you really not know how bankruptcy works?
Uncompensated care ends up on the hospitals / doctors, who then pad the bills of those with insurance to cover the loss. Some of it is paid for by taxpayers to make sure all the hospitals do not close up and disappear.
I am surprised the Emergency Room law which forces hospitals to treat anyone who arrives is not on the Repubitards agenda for repeal. Let the loafers die off already.
Federal payments for uncompensated care is being reduced to hospitals because the ACA will result in fewer uncompensated cases. So the states the refuse to expand Medicaid are going to start to feel the pain as their rural hospitals go bankrupt. Nothing like screwing the poor for no good reason, thanks Repubs!
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 19 minutes, 16 seconds
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: fivepointer]
#22546434 - 11/19/15 11:53 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
fivepointer said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: In that example if bankruptcy was declared where would the debt go?
Do you really not know how bankruptcy works?
Uncompensated care ends up on the hospitals / doctors, who then pad the bills of those with insurance to cover the loss. Some of it is paid for by taxpayers to make sure all the hospitals do not close up and disappear.
I am surprised the Emergency Room law which forces hospitals to treat anyone who arrives is not on the Repubitards agenda for repeal. Let the loafers die off already.
Federal payments for uncompensated care is being reduced to hospitals because the ACA will result in fewer uncompensated cases. So the states the refuse to expand Medicaid are going to start to feel the pain as their rural hospitals go bankrupt. Nothing like screwing the poor for no good reason, thanks Repubs!
Republicams do a lot of grandstanding. They cut off their nose to spite their face. The fact of the matter is, it is law, and they should take the money that is given them. Their grandstanding hurts their naive constitutents who don't know any better but to vote for them because of their 'christian values' (which apparently include fucking hookers and smoking pot, or even using cocaine, in many instances).
Apparently zappa doesn't understand that whether or not a patient pays for their care, it is always paid for, one way or another. If they don't have insurance, it comes out of zappa's ass when he goes to the doctor, or when he pays his taxes.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22547131 - 11/19/15 02:42 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Laws can be changed and Obamacare is probably the biggest reason why Republicans control the House, The Senate and most state governorships and legislatures.
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mycoprog
Modular Heretic



Registered: 01/12/06
Posts: 797
Loc: N. America
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: zappaisgod]
#22547158 - 11/19/15 02:47 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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ahhhh, mid-terms.
business as usual.
--------------------
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 19 minutes, 16 seconds
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: zappaisgod]
#22547664 - 11/19/15 04:38 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Laws can be changed and Obamacare is probably the biggest reason why Republicans control the House, The Senate and most state governorships and legislatures.
Yeah, I guess there are a lot of single-issue idiot voters in this country. I think it has a lot more to do with gerrymandering than anything else, though.
At least Republicans won't be taking the white house any time in the foreseeable future. Fortunately, this time around that will have a lasting affect on the Supreme Court also.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22548024 - 11/19/15 05:42 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Laws can be changed and Obamacare is probably the biggest reason why Republicans control the House, The Senate and most state governorships and legislatures.
Yeah, I guess there are a lot of single-issue idiot voters in this country. I think it has a lot more to do with gerrymandering than anything else, though.
At least Republicans won't be taking the white house any time in the foreseeable future. Fortunately, this time around that will have a lasting affect on the Supreme Court also.
Liberal excuses for the rejection of their failed policies...
Tell ya what, if republicans don't take the White House next election, I'll ban my self from the political message boards here on shroomery... Deal?
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fivepointer
newbie
Registered: 08/03/02
Posts: 1,428
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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It will be interesting to see the massive back peddle on repealing the ACA if the Repubs win the White House. Once millions of people realize they have lost affordable health insurance due to Republicans they might be angry enough to never vote R again.
Rs are not stupid, they talk a lot but deliver little.
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 19 minutes, 16 seconds
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: fivepointer] 1
#22548210 - 11/19/15 06:27 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
fivepointer said: Rs are not stupid, they talk a lot but deliver little.
Republicans are fucking stupid, and neither party delivers shit.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 19 minutes, 16 seconds
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Laws can be changed and Obamacare is probably the biggest reason why Republicans control the House, The Senate and most state governorships and legislatures.
Yeah, I guess there are a lot of single-issue idiot voters in this country. I think it has a lot more to do with gerrymandering than anything else, though.
At least Republicans won't be taking the white house any time in the foreseeable future. Fortunately, this time around that will have a lasting affect on the Supreme Court also.
Liberal excuses for the rejection of their failed policies...
Tell ya what, if republicans don't take the White House next election, I'll ban my self from the political message boards here on shroomery... Deal?
Lol! I'm going to hold you to that, buddy!
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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