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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22525096 - 11/14/15 10:00 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
To me personally that's the dumbest rationalization americans make. In terms of hours spent waiting versus hours spent making the money to pay for the visit youre always at a loss in terms of how much time you're investing into that visit. I still don't see the appeal.




Fair enough, you're fine with elected politicians making your medical choices and decisions. Good for you. Plus, I'd rather work my ass off and enjoy my money than have it go to people that make poor health choices...

So here in America, if a person goes to the gym, eats right, doesn't smoke and takes care of themself can get a much lower premium than the guy who drinks, smokes, and is lazy and obese. In Canada, both would pay the same for healthcare, and you think that's fair, correct?




:youseethisshit:

You let your elected politicians make your choices and decisions all the time. The fuck kind of rational is that

And so what? None of us have a problem with the few bad apples you're describing. For the most part it is a perfectly fair and reasonable setup yet you act like they're personally gonna be clawing vast sums of money out of your pocket. The truth is that implemented correctly you'd be paying less, signifigantly less.

And no commie. That's not really a sound defense of privitized healthcare. America's overall health is comparable to Canadas.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22525722 - 11/14/15 11:43 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I wouldn't say healthcare is a 'right', and neither is food. We are privileged to live in a society which is capable of providing those things to everyone. The way I see it, society is more functional when we pull together to ensure these things. It really comes down to priorities of society at large. Do we find it ethical to have a society which produces billionaires off the backs of labor, but allows children (and adults) to starve or go without healthcare?

Some people are fine with letting people die of easily curable diseases, and some are not. Some are ok with letting people starve, in an effort to concentrate wealth and produce billionaires, others are not. That's really what it comes down to. If the majority elects to provide healthcare to all at the expense of producing a billionaire class, then healthcare can be made a right of citizens. It is not an innate right, however, and i don't really see how anyone can argue that it is.

I don't believe any right is innate. Rights are decided by society at large.

From an economic and ethical standpoint, universal healthcare only makes sense. The only people who actually understand this topic that don't support public healthcare are those who benefit from the plight of the misfortunate in this system. Most of us do not benefit in any way from the current healthcare system. It creates instability in society, and it is incredibly inadequate by virtually any measure you choose to observe.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22526382 - 11/15/15 06:39 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

You let your elected politicians make your choices and decisions all the time. The fuck kind of rational is that




Yep, and I vehemently oppose it, if you've read anything I've posted besides this, you would see that. I don't want a nanny state, most Americans don't. Letting govt control our lives is not what being a free society is all about. You obviously didn't read any of the links I posted because if you had, you would know that many Canadian doctors are opening PRIVATE practices and their clients are loving it. Proof that a free market based system, is better, more efficient, and more adaptable than all this "one size fits all" single payer BS. Are we not all unique individuals? Than why shouldn't our healthcare reflect that?

Quote:

A 2005 decision by the Supreme Court of Canada struck down a Quebec law that banned private insurance.




Quote:

“When we change the system to allow competition, wait lists will go away.”




http://www.medibid.com/blog/2012/07/paying-a-doctor-for-care-still-illegal-in-canada/

Quote:

What’s driving all that growth in private clinics?
Dr. Brian Day, the owner of private Cambie Surgery Centre and former president of the Canadian Medical Association says the proliferation is a function of the inability of the public system to meet demand.
Echoing an oft-stated belief that two-tier health care works well in the United Kingdom and Australia, Day says that “out of every developed country on earth, Canada is the only one where the government is trying to deliver all the health services. … Some competition is good for the public system




http://m.cmaj.ca/content/183/8/E437.full

So while many doctors and patients in Canada are realizing the shortfalls of single payer, America is pushing full steam ahead for it, well, at least the blind ones are...


--------------------
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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22527399 - 11/15/15 12:39 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

You let your elected politicians make your choices and decisions all the time. The fuck kind of rational is that




Yep, and I vehemently oppose it, if you've read anything I've posted besides this, you would see that. I don't want a nanny state, most Americans don't. Letting govt control our lives is not what being a free society is all about. You obviously didn't read any of the links I posted because if you had, you would know that many Canadian doctors are opening PRIVATE practices and their clients are loving it. Proof that a free market based system, is better, more efficient, and more adaptable than all this "one size fits all" single payer BS. Are we not all unique individuals? Than why shouldn't our healthcare reflect that?

Quote:

A 2005 decision by the Supreme Court of Canada struck down a Quebec law that banned private insurance.




Quote:

“When we change the system to allow competition, wait lists will go away.”




http://www.medibid.com/blog/2012/07/paying-a-doctor-for-care-still-illegal-in-canada/

Quote:

What’s driving all that growth in private clinics?
Dr. Brian Day, the owner of private Cambie Surgery Centre and former president of the Canadian Medical Association says the proliferation is a function of the inability of the public system to meet demand.
Echoing an oft-stated belief that two-tier health care works well in the United Kingdom and Australia, Day says that “out of every developed country on earth, Canada is the only one where the government is trying to deliver all the health services. … Some competition is good for the public system




http://m.cmaj.ca/content/183/8/E437.full

So while many doctors and patients in Canada are realizing the shortfalls of single payer, America is pushing full steam ahead for it, well, at least the blind ones are...




Lol... many? 10% or less? I thought you believed in Democracy, not minority rule! Lol

Many Americans believe that slavery was a good thing. I hope we're not going to re-implement that anytime soon to appease the <10%.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22527840 - 11/15/15 02:52 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
A 400,000 dollar bill for a heart attack however will destroy the overwhelming majority of people's lives. Dont get all mad because your shit logic doesn't hold up.
.
.
.
if bankruptcy was declared where would the debt go?
.
.
.
it gets shifted elsewhere, while everything non necessary is liquidated and their quality of life and credit drop dramatically. Sounds like a lose lose to me.



:thatsaten:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (11/15/15 02:57 PM)


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22527908 - 11/15/15 03:03 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
you're fine with elected politicians making your medical choices and decisions. Good for you.



You're fine with private insurance companies making your medical choices and decisions?  Their goal is to make as much as possible by giving you as little care as possible.

Good for you!


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22528377 - 11/15/15 05:21 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
you're fine with elected politicians making your medical choices and decisions. Good for you.



You're fine with private insurance companies making your medical choices and decisions?  Their goal is to make as much as possible by giving you as little care as possible.

Good for you!




:whathesaid:

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
A 400,000 dollar bill for a heart attack however will destroy the overwhelming majority of people's lives. Dont get all mad because your shit logic doesn't hold up.
.
.
.
if bankruptcy was declared where would the debt go?
.
.
.
it gets shifted elsewhere, while everything non necessary is liquidated and their quality of life and credit drop dramatically. Sounds like a lose lose to me.



:thatsaten:




^^^ What they said.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22528510 - 11/15/15 05:51 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Besides. It looks like the free market bombs at delivering kids.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/12/us-health-pregnancy-idUSKCN0T10LO20151112#fE4cLCCbtrgVEwhu.97

Privitized healthcare kills kids. Literally.


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22528569 - 11/15/15 06:04 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
you're fine with elected politicians making your medical choices and decisions. Good for you.



You're fine with private insurance companies making your medical choices and decisions?  Their goal is to make as much as possible by giving you as little care as possible.

Good for you!




wow, you're either really stupid or just an asshole

anyways, the difference is I do physicals every year and can actually negotiate for the care I need, and because I actually take care of myself, my premiums are lower, thats a fact, most insurance companies, including mine, even reimburse gym memberships nowadays. under single payer, the fat slob who drinks a fifth of vodka everyday, (whose in the same wage bracket, (gotta ad that in for the other libtard)) pays the exact same for equal coverage, thats the definition of retarded...

of course this was until obowelmovementcare, now of course I have to buy a bunch of shit I don't need, and of course this has doubled my premiums...

I'd put my faith in big corporations looking out for my best interest any day of the week over some pencil neck govt schmuck, who just like obamacare, has no fucking intention of living under the same rules and regulations as they force on us...

for "free thinkers" y'all sure are a bunch of freakin robots...


--------------------
http://www.countdowntotrump.com





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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22528668 - 11/15/15 06:36 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
wow, you're either really stupid or just an asshole



I was being an asshole, but I guess you didn't realize the "Good for you!" comment was exactly what you said to Bodhi of Ankou when you were being an asshole to him.

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
under single payer, the fat slob who drinks a fifth of vodka everyday, (whose in the same wage bracket, (gotta ad that in for the other libtard)) pays the exact same for equal coverage, thats the definition of retarded...



Single payer doesn't have to be that way.  In fact, I'd support a system where healthy people got a tax refund.

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
I'd put my faith in big corporations looking out for my best interest any day of the week over some pencil neck govt schmuck

for "free thinkers" y'all sure are a bunch of freakin robots...



But private insurance corporations aren't looking out for your best interest, they're looking out for their bottom line!  That you actually believe they're looking out for your best interest shows what a freakin robot you are!!!


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Posts: 24,778
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22528794 - 11/15/15 07:10 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

It always amazes me how well trained they are. Take for example how Martin Shrekli jacked up the price of a life saving medicine from $7.50 a pill to $750 overnight or the recent merger between allergan and Pfizer. Coupled with the merger between walgreens and rightaid the medicinal landscape has essentially turned into a duoppoly. Somethings that's more a sign of economic rot rather then free market dynamism.  The only purpose of these mergers is to strengthen holds in the market and drive out competition so they can scale up prices against powerless consumers. You seriously think they value your life over your pocket?

B-b-but muh free markets would never betray me!

Dont even get me started about how ridiculously overpriced simple operations are in your country, or all the horror stories I'll seriously have no trouble pulling up. Your Free-market™ rhetorics nothing more then some cheap platitude they've successfully sold to you.


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22528804 - 11/15/15 07:11 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
Yes but everyone's perfectly capable of working and buying food. A 400,000 dollar bill for a heart attack however will destroy the overwhelming majority of people's lives. Dont get all mad because your shit logic doesn't hold up.




Then why should everything from routine checkups to the common cold be "free", wouldn't it make more sense to limit it to major operations and whatnot paid for?




So people will get them.  Preventative care saves money, regardless of who pays the bil.

Quote:

and why the fuck should I be forced to pay for some fatasses surgery who destroyed his arteries eating cheeseburgers everyday? Fact is, a lot of people's needs when it comes to medicine are preventable and yes, they do have control over it...




Subsidizing a single payer model with junk food and other sin tax sounds good to me.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22528932 - 11/15/15 07:35 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
Subsidizing a single payer model with junk food and other sin tax sounds good to me.




Brilliant. I wish they weren't called 'Sin' taxes, but these sort of taxes should be used to fix the problems associated with them. This is a great way to handle the problem HU has with single payer though.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22529066 - 11/15/15 07:46 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Twelve-Year-Old Died In 2007 From Abscessed Tooth After His Family's Medicaid Lapsed

 Seventeen-Year-Old's Insurance Revoked After He Tests HIV Positive.
 
 Woman Denied Coverage For Breast Cancer Because She Wasn't Diagnosed At Correct Clinic

 Forty-Five Thousand Americans Die Every Year Due To Lack Of Insurance.
 
 Study Found That In 2010, Three Americans Died Every Hour From Lack Of Insurance.


Quote:

and why the fuck should I be forced to pay for some fatasses surgery who destroyed his arteries eating cheeseburgers everyday? Fact is, a lot of people's needs when it comes to medicine are preventable and yes, they do have control over it...




And this little gem right here. What happens when they default on that debt? Oh yeah, you pay for it anyways. 'Murica


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #22529089 - 11/15/15 07:49 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
And this little gem right here. What happens when they default on that debt? Oh yeah, you pay for it anyways. 'Murica




:laugh2:

It's funny because it's true!

Also...


'MURICA


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22529103 - 11/15/15 07:51 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
Subsidizing a single payer model with junk food and other sin tax sounds good to me.




Brilliant. I wish they weren't called 'Sin' taxes, but these sort of taxes should be used to fix the problems associated with them. This is a great way to handle the problem HU has with single payer though.




that won't fix the other problems I've addressed though...

Quote:

Single payer doesn't have to be that way.  In fact, I'd support a system where healthy people got a tax refund.




but its not, I'd love a tax refund for being a healthy MOFO, but thats not the way its set up, until then, fuck you, fuck you, you cool, and fuck you!


--------------------
http://www.countdowntotrump.com





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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22529120 - 11/15/15 07:54 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Melts

/thread


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #22529170 - 11/15/15 08:00 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
Melts

/thread




ghey...


--------------------
http://www.countdowntotrump.com





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InvisibleShroom Detective
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22535087 - 11/16/15 09:26 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)



--------------------
"I, Falcon91Wolvrn03, am a BIG FAT LIAR; so much so, that my pants are on fire."


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: Shroom Detective]
    #22535271 - 11/16/15 10:07 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Your signature violates rule #2 of this forum.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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