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hostileuniverse
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: Patlal]
#22523574 - 11/14/15 05:28 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: 90% of Canadians support socialized healthcare
You can cherry pick reports all day man. We have a near unanimous undying love for our Healthcare system.
WTF 90???
Where the hell are these mysterious 10%?
I've never ever met anyone that said anything against universal health care.
I've met plenty, but personal experiences are not facts,
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Bodhi of Ankou
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Skirted what. My reasoning is right there for you to see. Those are all fundementally different then ones health in that they're in the person's control. Do you need me to spell it out for you?
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hostileuniverse
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Do people NEED food to live? The answer is yes, and that's why you're skirting it, because you know that the logic of a fucking right being applied to all things we need and have no control over is fucking retarded.
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Bodhi of Ankou
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Yes but everyone's perfectly capable of working and buying food. A 400,000 dollar bill for a heart attack however will destroy the overwhelming majority of people's lives. Dont get all mad because your shit logic doesn't hold up.
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hostileuniverse
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Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: Yes but everyone's perfectly capable of working and buying food. A 400,000 dollar bill for a heart attack however will destroy the overwhelming majority of people's lives. Dont get all mad because your shit logic doesn't hold up.
Then why should everything from routine checkups to the common cold be "free", wouldn't it make more sense to limit it to major operations and whatnot paid for?
and why the fuck should I be forced to pay for some fatasses surgery who destroyed his arteries eating cheeseburgers everyday? Fact is, a lot of people's needs when it comes to medicine are preventable and yes, they do have control over it...
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Bodhi of Ankou
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Because its for the greater good. There really is no other reason. I and 90% of Canadians have no qualms about it. Every other developed nation out there doesn't either. America's literally the only place, and it costs the states more tax dollars to run then our socialized service does while not even providing it freely. On a pure GDP basis the states spent 15.7% of its budget while Canada spent 9.9% France 10.2 and Germany 10.4 back in 2006. So honestly I have no idea what you americans are defending when it gets down to pure numbers and facts.
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hostileuniverse
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Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: Because its for the greater good. There really is no other reason. I and 90% of Canadians have no qualms about it. Every other developed nation out there doesn't either. America's literally the only place, and it costs the states more tax dollars to run then our socialized service does while not even providing it freely. On a pure GDP basis the states spent 15.7% of its budget while Canada spent 9.9% France 10.2 and Germany 10.4 back in 2006. So honestly I have no idea what you americans are defending when it gets down to pure numbers and facts.
I don't like waiting lists and rationing
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Bodhi of Ankou
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To me personally that's the dumbest rationalization americans make. In terms of hours spent waiting versus hours spent making the money to pay for the visit youre always at a loss in terms of how much time you're investing into that visit. I still don't see the appeal.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: Yes but everyone's perfectly capable of working and buying food. A 400,000 dollar bill for a heart attack however will destroy the overwhelming majority of people's lives. Dont get all mad because your shit logic doesn't hold up.
That is what bankruptcy is for though, right? It protects you and your home so that it doesn't destroy your life. If that is not what its for, what is it for? Too many restaurants and vacations? Being irresponsible?
Not saying this is ideal, but it's not going to destroy your life... There are protections in place for this very scenario.
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Bodhi of Ankou
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: DieCommie]
#22524216 - 11/14/15 08:16 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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In that example if bankruptcy was declared where would the debt go?
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Don't know, society would have to pay for it some way. But that is besides the point that I quoted. Nobody's life is getting destroyed by medical debt. Their standard of living may not be as high as they want... but that is almost always the case anyway.
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Bodhi of Ankou
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: DieCommie] 1
#22524396 - 11/14/15 08:37 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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So in other words it gets shifted elsewhere, while everything non necessary is liquidated and their quality of life and credit drop dramatically. Sounds like a lose lose to me.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Shifting the burden elsewhere is exactly what you are advocating though... Yea, they will have trouble borrowing afterwards and will have less cash. Its a bummer, I get that. Its not the destruction of their life, not even close.
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Bodhi of Ankou
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: DieCommie]
#22524460 - 11/14/15 08:45 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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It is. Its exactly why I don't understand why you think bankruptcy is a better alternative when socialized healthcare costs you the tax payer less and nobody needs to declare anything to use it.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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I never said it was. I'm calling you out on your exaggeration and sensationalist framing of bankruptcy. Having medical debt (which often doesn't even need bankruptcy) does not destroy anybody's life. You either lack perspective on what a real destroyed life is, or you are engaging in hyperbole to make a point. (I'm guessing its the latter.)
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Bodhi of Ankou
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: DieCommie]
#22524519 - 11/14/15 08:51 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm being hyperbolic but I'm sure you understand the points I'm making none the less.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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I understand most of them, and agree with some of them. I hope you understand the point I tried to explicitly make and don't read more into it than that. Medical debt is not hard to get discharged and it often does not affect one's credit the same as "regular" debt. If I got a 400k bill without insurance, I would simply not pay it. Not much else would happen.
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hostileuniverse
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Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: To me personally that's the dumbest rationalization americans make. In terms of hours spent waiting versus hours spent making the money to pay for the visit youre always at a loss in terms of how much time you're investing into that visit. I still don't see the appeal.
Fair enough, you're fine with elected politicians making your medical choices and decisions. Good for you. Plus, I'd rather work my ass off and enjoy my money than have it go to people that make poor health choices...
So here in America, if a person goes to the gym, eats right, doesn't smoke and takes care of themself can get a much lower premium than the guy who drinks, smokes, and is lazy and obese. In Canada, both would pay the same for healthcare, and you think that's fair, correct?
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
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In Canada the person who makes more would pay more.
I think a good way to sell single payer health care to people who like meritocracy is to tie the funding to things like precooked food and restaurants, alcohol, tobacco and other dangerous activities like high impact sports and bad driving. That works the incentive to live healthy into the system while still making sure everybody gets covered. Because lets face it, Americans are fat and gluttonous. Even with a single payer Canada like system our cost would be higher than there percentage of their GDP.
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Losing my health insurance again [Re: DieCommie]
#22525037 - 11/14/15 09:50 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
n Canada the person who makes more would pay more.
Wow, really? Is that some sort of new math?
Didn't really think I had to spell out the part aboot making similar wages... Next time I'll include some pictures for you too, maybe a pie chart(no that's not food)
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