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Offlinexeberdee
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Registered: 09/30/15
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Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
Atheist Spiritual Experience * 1
    #22498989 - 11/09/15 03:37 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Ok - so I consider myself an atheist. I'm over 50, have done psilocybin for many years, in large healthy doses too :laugh: and I have never really had anything that I can call a religious experience anywhere in my life - even on shrooms - that's why I'm an atheist.

So I've not done any shrooms for about 10 years, then I decide to do about 3g dried Liberty Caps (about 250) that I found in a field close by recently.

After taking them I was connected to what some people might call 'god' all of a sudden. As it came on, I kept going over it in my mind, it's conditioning I told myself - ideas that are forced in there through culture. If I lived in India I might be thinking of some other religious idea for sure, but I've never felt so strongly connected to the universe ever before on shrooms, even in much larger doses. I had waited for a clear night, because I love the stars and the dark. This trip, I was connected to the light of the milky way through a loving feeling that felt like a very strong magnetic pull from deep inside me. It was so strong that it pulled the flowing light apart to reveal the rainbow colors around everything it shone on. There was a very strange alignment of a tiny slither of moon lit from directly below, with Venus and Saturn in line above. I've never seen this combination, or Venus so bright, and I watch stars quite a bit though telescopes. All night, I was in a state of pure pleasure and love - at peak, all I could do was to roll around helplessly in the light of the stars and I could hardly stand the level of love that was flowing thru me. The light was love and I could see the people in my life that were connected to it too, the people who help to guide me in the right direction. I was thankful in a way that I have never been thankful before. I felt the light of love shining in my mind and I realized how lucky I am to know the people who feel it too. I made some decisions this night about my life that have needed sorting out for a long time. It was a trip.

Now I'm back, and that fantastic love is out of consciousness. I don't really know what to do without it. Did I abandon my atheist views and suddenly become charged by a seemingly external force that could only be described as a religious or spiritual love?.

NO - I know what happened, I was on shrooms - so that's THE reason, and it was GREAT. Now I want to draw a picture, and to tell the tale. Give a bit of that love away to someone else. So we have a long human history of people on psychoactives who tell similar tales, that also had great spiritual experiences with deep meaning for them too.

So I'm not going to get extreme about it and buy into any dogma from the religious spiritual wholesalers who clutter peoples minds with rules and restrictions. I realize, that would be to misunderstand myself and the wonderful beauty of the sacred mushroom.

I can be an atheist, and at the same time I can feel connected to the universe because of a deep seated & true love of life. This wonderful fantastic void we are all part of. I am thankful for being reminded of this connection though the wonderful beauty of psilocybin. 


Peace.


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InvisibleAroundtheSon
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Re: Atheist Spiritual Experience [Re: xeberdee]
    #22499059 - 11/09/15 05:28 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Interesting post.

Some people believe you can cultivate a relationship with the Love you knew.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Atheist Spiritual Experience [Re: xeberdee]
    #22503625 - 11/10/15 05:16 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

it is VERY important to know the terms we use. So this is why I share the etymology of the term 'atheist'

Quote:



atheist (n.) Look up atheist at Dictionary.com
    1570s, from French athéiste (16c.), from Greek atheos "without god, denying the gods; abandoned of the gods; godless, ungodly," from a- "without" + theos "a god" (see theo-).

        The existence of a world without God seems to me less absurd than the presence of a God, existing in all his perfection, creating an imperfect man in order to make him run the risk of Hell. [Armand Salacrou, "Certitudes et incertitudes," 1943]




WHOSE 'god/s' is the question I get from reading that. because I am aware how that term was hijacked by patriarchal mythology so9 as to divide us FROM a deeper direct sense and actually being possessed by the god of nature, usually inspired from magical vegetation, which is your experience. Though of course these experiences can come about spontaneously also

MOST 'atheists' mean by that term 'I reject the Christian/Muslim/Judean 'God''--the big warrior hero in the sky with 'his' rules and regulation. Old fuddy duddy who goes on about 'love' but is willing to punish you everlastingly in hell and then blame you for it! Because you didn't love him enough

In patriarchal polytheistic traditions like the Greek Olympian gods, again you had the story of aloof gods disconnected from the individual and like elite puppetmasters. HAH! Well guess who made that story up...?

So in other words you have experienced the real meaning and direct experience of spirituality, not all that other crap which is used as social control


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Invisiblechampinhom
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Re: Atheist Spiritual Experience [Re: xeberdee] * 1
    #22506394 - 11/10/15 06:12 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Well, how do you define your terms? Some people say that the universe--with which you say you felt connected--is the Divine.

My feeling is that atheists are just believers waiting to happen. They haven't had the experiences they need to kick them over the edge and they haven't enough imagination to get over any other way.

Atheists are believers who have yet to find  their foxholes.


--------------------
My father used to say: I don't care what else you do in life, just don't be an asshole. People, forgive me when I forget what my daddy said.

Cut back the proliferating list of people whose opinions can hurt you. Unless they have done or want to do you some good, their views are just not worth tracking.
Saul Bellow

“People are just cannibals unless they leave each other alone.” Doris Lessing

Those whom the gods would save, they dower with compassion. Mr. P.  Silocybin


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OfflineEggtimer
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Registered: 05/04/13
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Re: Atheist Spiritual Experience [Re: xeberdee]
    #22507408 - 11/10/15 10:28 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I take the non-duality approach.

The word god is so tainted for believers and non-believers I try to avoid it's use.
The average believer only believes because they have been told they have to believe to be a good person and not go to hell.
Very few have any clue what a real spiritual experience is.

I was one of them and then I was a nihilist for about 6 years then I smoked DMT and had the most profound 5 minute experience of my life that was more significant than the sum total of all my years added together.
I had to reconsider some things.




Quote:

1. The Guhyagarbha Tantra is a source in Dzogchen Nyingma tradition. Its essence is that all awareness is awakened awareness and all phenomena are awakened phenomena. Awareness is enlightened, and all phenomena are enlightened. The divinity of awake-ness-- awareness… primordial awareness-- is within us as us and within the world as awakened phenomena. As Shaivite sutras declare, “The bliss of samadhi is the bliss of the world. The bliss of the world is the bliss of samadhi.” There is no separation between being and the phenomena of all the infinite beings. All beings are the manifestation of pure being-- pure awareness. Pure awareness is being and being is not a being. All beings are the manifestation of pure awareness as awareness. All phenomena is awareness-- luminous awareness.

2. Or as Swami Muktananda would say: “God dwells within you, as you;” “See God in each other;” “God is not an entity;” and “God is within you as you. Not hidden within you. Not a seed (garbha) within you, but you.” God is pure awareness as your own awareness, as your body and as your mind. In the Guhyagarbha tantra, the aggregate of the function of your mind is divine. The dakinis are the aggregate, divine functions, and the elements are the Buddhas. Elements are the lights of awareness.




Quote:

5. In Buddhist language, the dynamic is the same. The dharmakaya, which is pure self-awareness, manifests the worlds as sambhogakaya-- rapture, luminous rapture-- and nirmanakaya-- luminous desire.  The dharmakaya is not a thing. The dharmakaya is not is-ness alone, as some would think, but awareness alive-- awareness intrinsically knowing itself as knowing-ness. This is the great compassion that generates out of the radiance of self awareness as us… an us that is a given-ness, which is the same as the giver-- there is no difference whatsoever. This dharmakaya is pure potentiality, and the same potentiality is you-- that which manifests you is you. Of course you do not have to believe this and probably do not think it. You do not think that your very own awareness is completely pure openness and timeless in time.

6. The Dzogchen masters say your awareness is the vajra kumara… indestructible youthfulness. You simply have to experience what is there already. You simply have to become aware of your own awareness and you will experience the protection of the great compassion, which is actually the only protection. THIS GREAT COMPASSION IS RADIANCE AND THE GENERATIVE RADIANCE WHCH IS LOVE, WHICH IS GENERATIVITY…EXTENSION. THE GREAT COMPASSION IS NOT SIMPLY RECEPTIVITY TO THE PAIN OF THE WORLD, INTERNALIZATION OF PAIN AND THE ATTEMPT TO TRANSMUTE PAIN THROUGH OUR OWN BODIES. COMPASSION IS NOT THE INTERNALIZATION OF MISERY, AS SOME SUGGEST. IT IS ACTION THAT TRANSMITS LIGHT AS LOVE…RADIANCE. COMPASSION CREATES TIME AND CREATES THE WORLD.




--------------------
It's all for the :lol:s


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OfflinePeyote Road
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Posts: 3,527
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Re: Atheist Spiritual Experience [Re: Eggtimer]
    #22507504 - 11/10/15 11:05 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
it is VERY important to know the terms we use. So this is why I share the etymology of the term 'atheist'

Quote:



atheist (n.) Look up atheist at Dictionary.com
    1570s, from French athéiste (16c.), from Greek atheos "without god, denying the gods; abandoned of the gods; godless, ungodly," from a- "without" + theos "a god" (see theo-).

        The existence of a world without God seems to me less absurd than the presence of a God, existing in all his perfection, creating an imperfect man in order to make him run the risk of Hell. [Armand Salacrou, "Certitudes et incertitudes," 1943]




WHOSE 'god/s' is the question I get from reading that. because I am aware how that term was hijacked by patriarchal mythology so9 as to divide us FROM a deeper direct sense and actually being possessed by the god of nature, usually inspired from magical vegetation, which is your experience. Though of course these experiences can come about spontaneously also

MOST 'atheists' mean by that term 'I reject the Christian/Muslim/Judean 'God''--the big warrior hero in the sky with 'his' rules and regulation. Old fuddy duddy who goes on about 'love' but is willing to punish you everlastingly in hell and then blame you for it! Because you didn't love him enough

In patriarchal polytheistic traditions like the Greek Olympian gods, again you had the story of aloof gods disconnected from the individual and like elite puppetmasters. HAH! Well guess who made that story up...?

So in other words you have experienced the real meaning and direct experience of spirituality, not all that other crap which is used as social control




The Christian God is revealed in scripture to be a God of unconditional love "The LORD is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and rich in love." Psalm 145

The Old Testament God is about rules and regulations and punishing people, which was a reflection of the state of consciousness people were in at the time. As human consciousness evolved, more about the nature of God was revealed to us, especially in the figure of Jesus Christ. A God of mercy and compassion.

Few people seem to understand what St. Paul is speaking about in the Bible when he talks about the old paradigm of justification by works of the law vs the new paradigm of justification by faith working through love. I won't go into a long explanation here but basically he says that a Christian who loves is free do to as he pleases.

True freedom is not being able to do whatever you want, that only leads to addiction, which is slavery. Real freedom is being governed by love, in which case you are free to do whatever you want but you will find that you naturally will not anything that is contrary to love and so you will end up keeping the law not because you have to but because you want to.


Quote:

Eggtimer said:
I take the non-duality approach.

The word god is so tainted for believers and non-believers I try to avoid it's use.
The average believer only believes because they have been told they have to believe to be a good person and not go to hell.
Very few have any clue what a real spiritual experience is.

I was one of them and then I was a nihilist for about 6 years then I smoked DMT and had the most profound 5 minute experience of my life that was more significant than the sum total of all my years added together.
I had to reconsider some things.




Quote:

1. The Guhyagarbha Tantra is a source in Dzogchen Nyingma tradition. Its essence is that all awareness is awakened awareness and all phenomena are awakened phenomena. Awareness is enlightened, and all phenomena are enlightened. The divinity of awake-ness-- awareness… primordial awareness-- is within us as us and within the world as awakened phenomena. As Shaivite sutras declare, “The bliss of samadhi is the bliss of the world. The bliss of the world is the bliss of samadhi.” There is no separation between being and the phenomena of all the infinite beings. All beings are the manifestation of pure being-- pure awareness. Pure awareness is being and being is not a being. All beings are the manifestation of pure awareness as awareness. All phenomena is awareness-- luminous awareness.

2. Or as Swami Muktananda would say: “God dwells within you, as you;” “See God in each other;” “God is not an entity;” and “God is within you as you. Not hidden within you. Not a seed (garbha) within you, but you.” God is pure awareness as your own awareness, as your body and as your mind. In the Guhyagarbha tantra, the aggregate of the function of your mind is divine. The dakinis are the aggregate, divine functions, and the elements are the Buddhas. Elements are the lights of awareness.




Quote:

5. In Buddhist language, the dynamic is the same. The dharmakaya, which is pure self-awareness, manifests the worlds as sambhogakaya-- rapture, luminous rapture-- and nirmanakaya-- luminous desire.  The dharmakaya is not a thing. The dharmakaya is not is-ness alone, as some would think, but awareness alive-- awareness intrinsically knowing itself as knowing-ness. This is the great compassion that generates out of the radiance of self awareness as us… an us that is a given-ness, which is the same as the giver-- there is no difference whatsoever. This dharmakaya is pure potentiality, and the same potentiality is you-- that which manifests you is you. Of course you do not have to believe this and probably do not think it. You do not think that your very own awareness is completely pure openness and timeless in time.

6. The Dzogchen masters say your awareness is the vajra kumara… indestructible youthfulness. You simply have to experience what is there already. You simply have to become aware of your own awareness and you will experience the protection of the great compassion, which is actually the only protection. THIS GREAT COMPASSION IS RADIANCE AND THE GENERATIVE RADIANCE WHCH IS LOVE, WHICH IS GENERATIVITY…EXTENSION. THE GREAT COMPASSION IS NOT SIMPLY RECEPTIVITY TO THE PAIN OF THE WORLD, INTERNALIZATION OF PAIN AND THE ATTEMPT TO TRANSMUTE PAIN THROUGH OUR OWN BODIES. COMPASSION IS NOT THE INTERNALIZATION OF MISERY, AS SOME SUGGEST. IT IS ACTION THAT TRANSMITS LIGHT AS LOVE…RADIANCE. COMPASSION CREATES TIME AND CREATES THE WORLD.







It is true the word God has become tainted. This is why God commands us not to have graven images. The word God itself has become a graven image, because people form of an idea of what God is or what God is like and then they hold up that idea and miss the actual living God.

But God is so infinite that he can be described in a virtually ifinite number of ways from virtually endless different angles (hence so many different religions and so many differing viewpoints even within the same religion).

I recommend all atheists who struggle with the concept of God but want to explore their spirituality, to simply explore spiritual teachings that do not rely heavily or at all upon the concept of God, such as Buddhism.

As you progress spiritually, you will eventually realize the truth of the theistic religions but will see what they are pointing with your own sight vs simply believing in their doctrines.


--------------------
The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra


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Offlinexeberdee
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Registered: 09/30/15
Posts: 28
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
Re: Atheist Spiritual Experience [Re: champinhom]
    #22509593 - 11/11/15 02:21 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

champinhom said:
Well, how do you define your terms? Some people say that the universe--with which you say you felt connected--is the Divine.

My feeling is that atheists are just believers waiting to happen. They haven't had the experiences they need to kick them over the edge and they haven't enough imagination to get over any other way.

Atheists are believers who have yet to find  their foxholes.




Well I define the term Atheist as being without a deity. As for the term divine, I think it has been misunderstood since the invention of Christianity's Gnostic monad - and all ONE GOD based religions.

A good example of the ancient idea of the divine, are numbers, which were divine to the Pythagoreans who philosophized that the Dyad (number 2) was the first ultimately divine dichotomy of nature. The Monad was a pure logical concept according to most texts, whereas the divine dyad actually existed as a physical representation of some value in nature (Good:Evil, Male:Female, Light:Dark etc.) This is why Christianity (and other religions) adopted the idea of it from Zoroastrianism. The Gnostic Monad, which came later, was never seen to be any real object to believe in by the Greeks, and they had many gods which represented the natural objects that they cared about. Music, Science, Education, Love, Philosophy etc.

Believing in a singular representation of love, such as a one true god, is not nearly as pure as the Greek idea that believing in your own abilty to love - and understanding that you can also hate in inverse amounts, is a natural extension of human consciousness. The only religions to come close to understanding this are the older religions from the east based on Hindu - Buddhism etc.


I think Gnostic monism is a misrepresentation of a true natural thinking philosophy in Europe that predates political control by the Romans - we don't need it today, as we already have the remnants of the latter.

So I'm not going to jump down any foxholes yet.


Edited by xeberdee (11/11/15 02:30 PM)


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: Atheist Spiritual Experience [Re: xeberdee]
    #22510511 - 11/11/15 05:45 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Waking Up by Sam Harris is a great book on this subject. Here is the first chapter:

http://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/chapter-one


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OfflineEggtimer
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Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 3,097
Last seen: 4 days, 5 hours
Re: Atheist Spiritual Experience [Re: xeberdee]
    #22511806 - 11/11/15 10:11 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

xeberdee said:
Quote:

champinhom said:
Well, how do you define your terms? Some people say that the universe--with which you say you felt connected--is the Divine.

My feeling is that atheists are just believers waiting to happen. They haven't had the experiences they need to kick them over the edge and they haven't enough imagination to get over any other way.

Atheists are believers who have yet to find  their foxholes.




Well I define the term Atheist as being without a deity. As for the term divine, I think it has been misunderstood since the invention of Christianity's Gnostic monad - and all ONE GOD based religions.

A good example of the ancient idea of the divine, are numbers, which were divine to the Pythagoreans who philosophized that the Dyad (number 2) was the first ultimately divine dichotomy of nature. The Monad was a pure logical concept according to most texts, whereas the divine dyad actually existed as a physical representation of some value in nature (Good:Evil, Male:Female, Light:Dark etc.) This is why Christianity (and other religions) adopted the idea of it from Zoroastrianism. The Gnostic Monad, which came later, was never seen to be any real object to believe in by the Greeks, and they had many gods which represented the natural objects that they cared about. Music, Science, Education, Love, Philosophy etc.

Believing in a singular representation of love, such as a one true god, is not nearly as pure as the Greek idea that believing in your own abilty to love - and understanding that you can also hate in inverse amounts, is a natural extension of human consciousness. The only religions to come close to understanding this are the older religions from the east based on Hindu - Buddhism etc.


I think Gnostic monism is a misrepresentation of a true natural thinking philosophy in Europe that predates political control by the Romans - we don't need it today, as we already have the remnants of the latter.

So I'm not going to jump down any foxholes yet.




Check out this book I think you might like it.
Some of the ancients understood numbers quite a bit differently than the west. Today they're are thought of as abstract things.


http://www.amazon.com/Beginners-Guide-Constructing-Universe-Mathematical/dp/0060926716


I highly recommend the work of Jung too for deeper insights into this god stuff.

Quote:

“When a summit of life is reached, when the bud unfolds and from the lesser the greater emerges, then, as Nietzsche says,
“One becomes Two,” and the greater figure, which one always was but which remained invisible, appears to the lesser per­sonality with the force of a revelation.

He who is truly and hopelessly little will always drag the revelation of the greater down to the level of his littleness, and will never understand that the day of judgment for his littleness has dawned.

But the man who is inwardly great will know that the long expected friend of his soul, the immortal one, has now really come, “to lead captivity captive”; that is,
to seize hold of him by whom this immortal had always been confined and held prisoner, and to make his life flow into that greater life-a moment of deadliest peril!” Carl Jung




This book isn't Jung so don't throw him out if you don't like it.
It based heavy on Jungs work but with more connection to history and different stories of divinity. Jung didn't like to talk about that stuff too much because he feared not being taken seriously.
http://www.amazon.com/Ego-Archetype-Edward-Edinger/dp/087773576X


Edited by Eggtimer (11/11/15 10:24 PM)


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