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OfflineShortknight
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Registered: 02/25/13
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Re: Gun Control. Watch what happens when guns are banned. [Re: nicechrisman]
    #22499528 - 11/09/15 09:15 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

nicechrisman said:
I think that you probably should be allowed to own any gun you want based on what I know about you. I think crazy fuckers shouldn't be allowed to, and I think every gun needs to be registered to the owner so that fewer guns end up in the hands of criminals. It's not that complicated. Not much different from how it is now, I just think we need to up the ante a bit for greater accountability.





Whats funny is theres plenty of different sophisticated countries with very different gun laws. Having lots of different particular ordinances. Its a huge spectrum and yet there are always advocates who want a specific demanding change here and there they think will "fix" the "problem". There's simply just not much you can do on with the gun agenda. After you have backround checks and a time limit wait, its on the peoples hands. Fix the root of it all, thats all you can do.:thumbup:

Country after country show it.:peace:

:sunny:Shorty:sunny:

Edit: Common! if the aussies didn't get it right when they took all the guns to the grinder then WHAT!!!! Haha:tongue2:


Edited by Shortknight (11/09/15 09:17 AM)


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Offlinenicechrisman
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Registered: 11/07/03
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Re: Gun Control. Watch what happens when guns are banned. [Re: Shortknight]
    #22499537 - 11/09/15 09:17 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

There is also a spectrum of how common gun violence is in different countries. I would guess there is some correlation between the two.


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Gun Control. Watch what happens when guns are banned. [Re: nicechrisman]
    #22499540 - 11/09/15 09:18 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

nicechrisman said:
I think that you probably should be allowed to own any gun you want based on what I know about you. I think crazy fuckers shouldn't be allowed to




crazy fuckers arent allowed to own guns, there's actually a law against it, the
problem is the liberal mindset of authority ruining people's lives, "no, dont
have my nutter son committed because it will ruin his life", "the cops ruined his
life because they arrested him for shooting 16 people when he flipped out and
stole a gun and shot up a school"

you mentioned accountability, why arent we holding the parents of these mentally
ill shooters accountable for their inaction when it came too having their kids
institutionalized when it would have barred these mentally ill peoole from owning
guns and prevented a mass shooting, it seems a background check would have helped
saved lives had the parents institutionalized the kids. those parents are the
responsible parties because they either didnt do something about it or they are
the root cause because they payed so little attention to their kid that they
didnt notice he was torturing puppies

Quote:

I think every gun needs to be registered to the owner so that fewer guns end up in the hands of criminals. It's not that complicated.





tell us how registration stops a criminal from getting a gun, if a legal gun
owner registers his gun, a criminal steals the gun and it's reported stolen,
what happens? do they go after the gun owner? doo they go after him if the gun
is used in a crime? exactly what does the police having a serial number attached
to a gun do to prevent or stop criminal activity?

Quote:

Not much different from how it is now, I just think we need to up the ante a bit for greater accountability.





once more, who is being held accountable and for what


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OfflineShortknight
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Posts: 2,164
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Re: Gun Control. Watch what happens when guns are banned. [Re: nicechrisman]
    #22499545 - 11/09/15 09:19 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

You know why it is in America. And its not legal ownership.:peace:


--------------------
Did I say it too loud? Big heart? Or a little misleading!:musicnote:


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OfflineTNK
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Re: Gun Control. Watch what happens when guns are banned. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22499546 - 11/09/15 09:19 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

nicechrisman said:
Predictable overreaction response is predictable.





so what is it you're saying, that I shouldnt be able to own any gun that I want or
that you dont want people to own guns. these were simple questions addressing the
points you made




No, don't be over-dramatic pris.
Obviously I shouldn't be allowed to own a Black-hawk helicopter because the military is allowed to.

Comprehensible background checks, gun-insurance, internet database of gun-owners and the purchase and sale, transactions of gun ownership. ETC.

Just because of a few flaws in the system doesn't equate to a justification of an entire ban on fire-arms.

I don't care what anyone says, our founding fathers established this country with fire-arms and wanted to make sure in the future we would have access to them.

WAIT, before you attack my previous statement read the following.

I am aware that times we're different back then, and America had no standing army, rather a loosely organized collection of militias; however that does not mean that they wanted to discourage the fight against tyranny.
America was founded on that ideal.


--------------------
Edited by TNK (02/22/22 22:22 PM)


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OfflineShortknight
Male


Registered: 02/25/13
Posts: 2,164
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
Re: Gun Control. Watch what happens when guns are banned. [Re: nicechrisman]
    #22499553 - 11/09/15 09:20 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

nicechrisman said:
There is also a spectrum of how common gun violence is in different countries. I would guess there is some correlation between the two.




You know why it is in America,and its not legal ownership.:peace:

Shorty:yinyang:


--------------------
Did I say it too loud? Big heart? Or a little misleading!:musicnote:


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Offlinenicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard
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Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 33,241
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Re: Gun Control. Watch what happens when guns are banned. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22499556 - 11/09/15 09:21 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I'm obviously not going to sway your opinion on this issue pris. I knew that before I even posted. We could argue this until the end of days but it probably won't get either of us anywhere. My key point is that when most people talk about gun control, we are not talking about taking guns away from responsible, sane citizens.


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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OfflineTNK
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Re: Gun Control. Watch what happens when guns are banned. [Re: TNK]
    #22499560 - 11/09/15 09:22 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:


tell us how registration stops a criminal from getting a gun, if a legal gun
owner registers his gun, a criminal steals the gun and it's reported stolen,
what happens? do they go after the gun owner? doo they go after him if the gun
is used in a crime? exactly what does the police having a serial number attached
to a gun do to prevent or stop criminal activity?




Solution? Gun Insurance.
Attach a monetary value to a fire-arm and the damage it potentially could cause, and any damage it does in fact cause. Only thing Americans love more than guns is money, so with a potentially hundred thousand bill attached to a simple handgun in the event it is used in a school shooting or other such atrocity would encourage people to practice safer handling of their weapons.


--------------------
Edited by TNK (02/22/22 22:22 PM)


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OfflineShortknight
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Registered: 02/25/13
Posts: 2,164
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
Re: Gun Control. Watch what happens when guns are banned. [Re: TNK]
    #22499577 - 11/09/15 09:27 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

nicechrisman said:
I'm obviously not going to sway your opinion on this issue pris. I knew that before I even posted. We could argue this until the end of days but it probably won't get either of us anywhere. My key point is that when most people talk about gun control, we are not talking about taking guns away from responsible, sane citizens.




What do you do other than police gun raids on suspected illegal gun owners or something? Really though. I am trying to pry into you.:laugh: The laws with precautions are in place. Good ones, they arn't failing, the people are failing, and its proven trying to take them ALL away doesn't work either, their is no solution on this subject right now.

Quote:

Solution? Gun Insurance.
Attach a monetary value to a fire-arm and the damage it potentially could cause, and any damage it does in fact cause. Only thing Americans love more than guns is money, so with a potentially hundred thousand bill attached to a simple handgun in the event it is used in a school shooting or other such atrocity would encourage people to practice safer handling of their weapons.




Neat idea, but I really do hate the idea of making them cost more money essentially. Taxing a person to death has never helped before, and it really doesn't keep them out of criminals hands, which is the problem. And a person who is desperate with  nothing to lose decides to out lash on society, is the one who is dangerous here. Don't make money weigh on anybody more.

We sir are in a conundrum. :yinyang:

:sunny:Shorty:sunny:


Edited by Shortknight (11/09/15 09:31 AM)


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Offlinenicechrisman
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Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 33,241
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Re: Gun Control. Watch what happens when guns are banned. [Re: Shortknight]
    #22499588 - 11/09/15 09:30 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Where did I say anything about raids?


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
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Re: Gun Control. Watch what happens when guns are banned. [Re: Shortknight]
    #22499594 - 11/09/15 09:31 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Shortknight said:
Quote:

nicechrisman said:
I think that you probably should be allowed to own any gun you want based on what I know about you. I think crazy fuckers shouldn't be allowed to, and I think every gun needs to be registered to the owner so that fewer guns end up in the hands of criminals. It's not that complicated. Not much different from how it is now, I just think we need to up the ante a bit for greater accountability.





Whats funny is theres plenty of different sophisticated countries with very different gun laws. Having lots of different particular ordinances. Its a huge spectrum and yet there are always advocates who want a specific demanding change here and there they think will "fix" the "problem".





here's you a fast history lesson, central american countries have strict gun
laws, of course murder is also illegal yet they have extremely high homicide
rates but we need to ask why, how is it that there are s many gun related murders
and murders in general in that part of the world despite the strict gun laws. Now
for the history... it seems that the largest reason for the collapse of the inca,
aztek and mayan civilizations was their violent nature, some were warring with
each other, some were sacrificing their people to their gods, they had weakened
themselves so much that they couldnt repel the spanish invasion. not much has
changed, their governments are still corrupt and they're still killing each other

now let's look at genetics, many people claim that pit bulls are genetically
violent because they want to blame the dog when it attacks a child, claims that
they were bred for the genetic traits of fighting are quite common and yet they
dont believe these genetic traits would appear in humans, that in the case of
humans it's nurture, not nature that leads some to violence yet when we look at
these violent people we find that they grow up in the same sort of violent homes
which suggests that one or both parents have a violent nature


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OfflineTNK
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Re: Gun Control. Watch what happens when guns are banned. [Re: Shortknight]
    #22499596 - 11/09/15 09:32 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Neat idea, but I really do hate the idea of making them cost more money essentially. Taxing a person to death has never helped before, and it really doesn't keep them out of criminals hands, which is the problem.





I'm not a lawyer or a law-maker so this will sound rather rudimentary but I feel it will get an the idea across.

The idea would not add taxes to the sale of the weapon, but rather an agreement that if your weapon is stolen through neglect(lack of effort to lock it up, trigger-locks, etc) and is used in a crime, you are responsible for a monetary value of some percentage of the damage caused.

Like, if your child steals your gun because it wasn't properly locked up in a safe place, and was found to lack a trigger lock and your child then goes and takes it to school and accidentally shoots someone, YOUR responsible for their actions due to a lack of effort for gun-safety.

It would be similar to reckless endangerment laws.


--------------------
Edited by TNK (02/22/22 22:22 PM)


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OfflineShortknight
Male


Registered: 02/25/13
Posts: 2,164
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
Re: Gun Control. Watch what happens when guns are banned. [Re: nicechrisman]
    #22499597 - 11/09/15 09:32 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

nicechrisman said:
Where did I say anything about raids?




No no no, I said that, I was adding provocative thinking, on general ideas to what could be done :peace: (jeeze I hope that idea never ever happens...)

:sunny:Shorty:sunny:


--------------------
Did I say it too loud? Big heart? Or a little misleading!:musicnote:


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Gun Control. Watch what happens when guns are banned. [Re: TNK]
    #22499598 - 11/09/15 09:32 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TheNatureKid said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

nicechrisman said:
Predictable overreaction response is predictable.





so what is it you're saying, that I shouldnt be able to own any gun that I want or
that you dont want people to own guns. these were simple questions addressing the
points you made




No, don't be over-dramatic pris.
Obviously I shouldn't be allowed to own a Black-hawk helicopter because the military is allowed to.

Comprehensible background checks, gun-insurance, internet database of gun-owners and the purchase and sale, transactions of gun ownership. ETC.

Just because of a few flaws in the system doesn't equate to a justification of an entire ban on fire-arms.

I don't care what anyone says, our founding fathers established this country with fire-arms and wanted to make sure in the future we would have access to them.

WAIT, before you attack my previous statement read the following.

I am aware that times we're different back then, and America had no standing army, rather a loosely organized collection of militias; however that does not mean that they wanted to discourage the fight against tyranny.
America was founded on that ideal.





you've not addressed anything I've asked


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Offlinenicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard
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Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 33,241
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Re: Gun Control. Watch what happens when guns are banned. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22499599 - 11/09/15 09:33 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

You don't think the Spaniards' use of superior weaponry had anything to do with it?


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Gun Control. Watch what happens when guns are banned. [Re: TNK] * 2
    #22499604 - 11/09/15 09:35 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TheNatureKid said:
Quote:


tell us how registration stops a criminal from getting a gun, if a legal gun
owner registers his gun, a criminal steals the gun and it's reported stolen,
what happens? do they go after the gun owner? doo they go after him if the gun
is used in a crime? exactly what does the police having a serial number attached
to a gun do to prevent or stop criminal activity?




Solution? Gun Insurance.
Attach a monetary value to a fire-arm and the damage it potentially could cause, and any damage it does in fact cause. Only thing Americans love more than guns is money, so with a potentially hundred thousand bill attached to a simple handgun in the event it is used in a school shooting or other such atrocity would encourage people to practice safer handling of their weapons.





so hold the gun owner responsible for someone stealing his shit and using it in a
crime even though he committed no crime himself

I have an idea, why dont we hold the criminal accountable for his crimes instead?


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OfflineTNK
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Re: Gun Control. Watch what happens when guns are banned. [Re: Prisoner#1] * 1
    #22499605 - 11/09/15 09:35 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

That's because I am jumping into the middle of the debate, whatever points we're made previously we're not made by me, making it difficult for me to defend a point I may not agree with.


--------------------
Edited by TNK (02/22/22 22:22 PM)


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OfflineShortknight
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Registered: 02/25/13
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Re: Gun Control. Watch what happens when guns are banned. [Re: TNK]
    #22499606 - 11/09/15 09:35 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Right, but the kids not going to be dumb, hes going to figure out a way to get what he wants. Hes desperate, angry and misled, money is only going to confuddle the issue at hand, which is teaching your children good values from the get go.

Shorty:peace:


--------------------
Did I say it too loud? Big heart? Or a little misleading!:musicnote:


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Offlinenicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard
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Posts: 33,241
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Re: Gun Control. Watch what happens when guns are banned. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22499609 - 11/09/15 09:36 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I think gun owners should be responsible for safely storing their weapons so they don't fall into the wrong hands.


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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OfflineTNK
Pleasures of Africa
I'm a teapot Unread Journal User Gallery


Registered: 01/30/10
Posts: 14,237
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Re: Gun Control. Watch what happens when guns are banned. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22499612 - 11/09/15 09:37 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

TheNatureKid said:
Quote:


tell us how registration stops a criminal from getting a gun, if a legal gun
owner registers his gun, a criminal steals the gun and it's reported stolen,
what happens? do they go after the gun owner? doo they go after him if the gun
is used in a crime? exactly what does the police having a serial number attached
to a gun do to prevent or stop criminal activity?




Solution? Gun Insurance.
Attach a monetary value to a fire-arm and the damage it potentially could cause, and any damage it does in fact cause. Only thing Americans love more than guns is money, so with a potentially hundred thousand bill attached to a simple handgun in the event it is used in a school shooting or other such atrocity would encourage people to practice safer handling of their weapons.





so hold the gun owner responsible for someone stealing his shit and using it in a
crime even though he committed no crime himself

I have an idea, why dont we hold the criminal accountable for his crimes instead?




As I said in a comment after that one was only if the person was found to be responsible of neglect in practicing gun safety. Of course we hold the criminal accountable, don't be asinine.


--------------------
Edited by TNK (02/22/22 22:22 PM)


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