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OfflineDadeMurphy
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If Drugs Were Legalized...
    #2249315 - 01/17/04 09:37 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

what would happen to the "drug culture"?
(I hope this isn't a repost  :crazy:)

It seems to me that so much of the connection felt between "drug-culture" people is based on their common sense of being "on the outside", oppressed and looked down upon.
Everyone in the drug culture rallies and protests to have drugs (esp. marijuana) legalized but what if they got what they wanted? Where would they turn their energies? Would they all continue to use drugs if there were no rebellious element to it? (I know not all legalization people are actual drug users but for the sake of argument....)

I wonder also how long it would take for drug use, esp. psychedelics, to become totally assimilated into the mainstream like alcohol is. What new social institutions would be created around these drugs? Would their be psychedelics shops or psychedelic "clubs"/discussion groups in every town? Would western religions start to incorporate them in their practices?

Anyone who with an opinion please post on this...
thx.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: If Drugs Were Legalized... [Re: DadeMurphy]
    #2249351 - 01/17/04 11:11 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

There never was and never will be one "drug culture." There are several drug cultures, and it will continue to be that way after legalization. The vast majority of people would probably not want to try psychedelics(I know people who smoke weed but are scared to death of psychedelics). Most people I know don't want to try psychedelics for reasons entirely unrelated to their legal status. So there would still be psychedelic culture, stoner culture(look at Amsterdam if you wanna stoner culture in a place without prohibition), junkie culture, etc. Besides, if there were psychedelic shops or psychedelic clubs, guess who would go to these establishments? Psychedelic users.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineDadeMurphy
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Re: If Drugs Were Legalized... [Re: silversoul7]
    #2249431 - 01/18/04 12:45 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

It is true as you say that there is no one drug culture, but the various drug culture "sects" do tend to overlap and intermingle. I mean look at this website, there a lots of people here who do or do not use certain specific drugs for their specific reasons, but they all have quite a bit in common and can probably be generalized about for the purposes of our discussion :P.

Anyways while I realize that every drug has specific and unique characteristics, one common link between most the popular psychoactives used by the people here is their illegal status.
(I know there are exceptions, let's not worry about technicalities though...) So, I think the fact that they are illegal gives them all a certain mystique for most people.
Many people who choose to use these drugs or choose not to use them are highly influeced in one way or the other by the fact that these drugs are illegal.

Perhaps a better question would then have been: if these drugs were DEMYSTIFIED in our society, what would the implications be to people on either side of the question?

I suspect many "drug people" and future drug users would lose alot of their interest in drugs, and on the flip side many "straight people" would start to use these drugs in a very casual way.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: If Drugs Were Legalized... [Re: DadeMurphy]
    #2249549 - 01/18/04 02:44 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

If they get rid of the drug war, nobody will ever doubt the government again.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: If Drugs Were Legalized... [Re: DadeMurphy]
    #2249562 - 01/18/04 02:50 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

If you look at alchohol, you notice that there are certain "alcohol cultures" as well, tho I guess it's more about different social settings in which it's consumed. For example, if you go to a restaurant or dinner party where people are drinking wine, it's a hell of a lot different than a bunch of guys drinking beer and watching football. The two can and often overlap, of course. A guy may very well watch football with his buddies while drinking beer and then go out with his wife to a fancy restaurant and drink wine, but still, it's a different crowd in those two settings. Also, you seem to forget that many of the people here consume legal as well as illegal substances.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: If Drugs Were Legalized... [Re: silversoul7]
    #2249581 - 01/18/04 02:56 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I don't think he forgot. It just wasn't relevant.


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OfflineDadeMurphy
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Re: If Drugs Were Legalized... [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2249709 - 01/18/04 03:53 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Exactly /\/\/\

Anyways, The legal drugs dont REALLY have the kind of culture surrounding them that the illegals do...the "alcohol" cultures or tobacco culture ie. cigare afficianados or wine connaisseurs are not really the same as the illegal drug culture. Sure there is room to intellectualize about those substances, and social scenes created around them, but illegal-drug people tend to be so much more INTO it.

The point isn't really who does what drugs and if they all can be lumped together with other illegal drug users...this website is a testament to the fact that they can be...and particularly in the eyes of the non-drug people we're all the same.

My point is that after drugs are legalized, what will all us rabble-rousers do with our energy? Will young people still think drugs are a "cool" way to rebel? How long will it take before the "counter-culture" ideas associated with these drugs are shed from the general consciousness at large, and they are looked at as simple (or not so simple) tools?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: If Drugs Were Legalized... [Re: DadeMurphy]
    #2249740 - 01/18/04 04:04 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

"Cultures" are dumb anyway. Just be an individual.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: If Drugs Were Legalized... [Re: DadeMurphy]
    #2250088 - 01/18/04 10:55 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

MTV will sell it.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: If Drugs Were Legalized... [Re: DadeMurphy]
    #2250180 - 01/18/04 12:09 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I think most people would gladly give up the "rebellion" aspect in exchange for walking into a store and buying 100% pure drugs for rock bottom prices.


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OfflineMightyQuinn
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Re: If Drugs Were Legalized... [Re: DadeMurphy]
    #2250318 - 01/18/04 01:19 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I'm personally not too sure that the majority of psychedelic users use psychedelics because it makes them feel like a cool rebel,

I think we keep using them because they're so useful and life-affirming.

I'm only speaking of the psychedelics here, for a lot of people there's attraction in chemicals like cocaine or methamphetamine and the various opiates and that sort of "Look what a huge badass I am because my liver's functioning within parameters" deal that heavy alcohol bingers seem to have too... So yes, if people are doing drugs to make themselves feel like a Big Man maybe they'd do them less if they were legal, but then you can come within an inch of an early meaningless death and brag about it doing something legal just as easily as you can doing something illegal.

Also I don't think the legalization of drugs will turn most people into drug users. There's a certain type of person who's going to seek out a psychedelic experience and another type who will actively avoid it. Tripped-out people will remain outside of the mainstream,

I PROMISE


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everybody's gonna want a dose.



Edited by MightyQuinn (01/18/04 01:21 PM)


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OfflineKokserek
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Registered: 01/19/04
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Re: If Drugs Were Legalized... [Re: DadeMurphy]
    #2251732 - 01/19/04 01:43 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

seriously, if marijuana were legal, it would lose a lot of its fun. But the cost to society is too high.. organized crime is getting out of control in Canada and it's time to legalize.


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Offlinefungulus
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Re: If Drugs Were Legalized... [Re: Kokserek]
    #2254013 - 01/19/04 09:50 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

What was the statistic again?

In the 50's when pot was prohibited 2% of the population smoked it.
Now 50 years later almost 50% of the population has smoked it including Presidents. How is it not a part of our culture?

The only real reasons in my opinion why drugs are still illegal is that:

1.The government won't admit it was wrong because they are trying to run things (last time I checked they were only responsible for representing their constituents)

2.The drug war is good buisness (how much money do they seize, anyway? How many weapons have sold to Columbia, Bolivia, etc. And I ain't even scratching the surface!)

3. The Bible Belt (Nuff said)

It might be naive to believe that things will change, but there is no other way but to believe.

Read some of Noam Chomsky's shit on his web site. Very illuminating. Look it up on Google. The man's right on and I think most people here will find that our government is persecuting other countries inderectly. There is no end to the evils of the drug war. The "Axis of evil" is right here at home in our most sacred of institutions.


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OfflineSuperLazy
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Re: If Drugs Were Legalized... [Re: DadeMurphy]
    #2254031 - 01/19/04 09:55 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

In my opinion you are partially right about there being a larger drug culture., albeit a rather broad group of people. As to what would happen, who knows, but I can tell you from experience that many people aren't just playin the game to alter their brain chemistry, many I've known seem to be genuinely addicted to the " druggie lifestyle" and whatever social/political/religious/etc nuances that come with it. peace.


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" Don't ration your compassion " - unknown


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OfflineDadeMurphy
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Re: If Drugs Were Legalized... [Re: SuperLazy]
    #2257160 - 01/20/04 08:36 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I agree with pretty much everything people have said in this post...

Particularly about psychedelics being very useful and sought out for deeper reasons than "being cool" or whatever I was getting at. I also agree with the point about which people are always going to be afraid of them and why.

Even so, I still think alot of the counter-culture anti-drugwar people (as i said, some of the marijuana-legalization people in particular) are in it just because they want to be part of the controversy.

Not that they aren't right mind you, I'm just talking about the underlying psychological reasons people gravitate to this issue in particular....I mean there are plenty of other injustices and inequalities in the world we could all be complaining about right?

I'm glad to see people thinking and contributing anyways, thanks guys.


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Re: If Drugs Were Legalized... [Re: DadeMurphy]
    #2257444 - 01/20/04 09:57 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I think that drugs legal status is what causes them to be associated with the counter culture. If drugs were legalized (soft drugs, so called) more conservative types would be using them, and magazines such as high times would be forced to change from a magazine that is now, sadly, about politics, and back to a magazine dealing with reefer.


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Opinions are like assholes; everyone needs one or else they'd explode


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Offlinepattern
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Re: If Drugs Were Legalized... [Re: DadeMurphy]
    #2258118 - 01/21/04 12:50 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I think there is more to the Drug War than getting some potheads out of jail. Even though that is injustice and must be corrected, some argue that we should worry about more pressing matters, but a problem is a problem. Maybe solving the smaller problem (Drug War) will help us solve the bigger problems (War/Famine).

Psychedelics aid thought, and if we are going to banish and imprison all the users, then we are losing an important part of humanity. We might be damning ourselves to a bleak future.

I'd wager that Nazi Germany was devoid of any psychedelic usage.


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OfflineDadeMurphy
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Re: If Drugs Were Legalized... [Re: pattern]
    #2305141 - 02/05/04 03:37 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

You would lose that wager...
Since you made that post there have been a number of threads about how Nazi Germany was an R&D powerhouse in the field of psychoactive chems.
Just pulling a quote from another thread out here:

"Monamine: Germany was THE chemistry powerhouse in the 30's until the downfall of the Riech. Not only did they create methadone,but they also created the amphetamines and many psychedelic phenethylamines. While Nazi scientists did not create the infamous LSD-25,Albert Hoffman was a German speaking Swiss who collaborated regularly with German chemists and was a sort of offshot of that chemistry scene."

Anyways I remember hearing about how it was a big blow to some people's belief systems when they found out that german workers in concentration camps were listening to beethoven and other classical genious's and reading all kinds of classical literature etc.

Many people up until then I guess were of the belief that art was such a humanizing force that nobody who appreciated art could possibly be so brutal - that the uglier parts of the world were caused by stupid people or philistines etc.

I guess I've just been trying to play the devil's advocate this whole thread but seriously...think of how many people have used and appreciated psychedelics and yet remain the classic ignorant, scared reactionary. So many...


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Offlinepattern
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Re: If Drugs Were Legalized... [Re: DadeMurphy]
    #2306320 - 02/05/04 08:29 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I was talking about psychedelic consumption in the Nazi populace. 

:crying:


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Offlinemonoamine
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Re: If Drugs Were Legalized... [Re: DadeMurphy]
    #2310026 - 02/06/04 10:23 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Nazi Germanay did indeed invent many psychedelic substances,but they were larglly ignorant of their properties.

Quote:

Anyways I remember hearing about how it was a big blow to some people's belief systems when they found out that german workers in concentration camps were listening to beethoven and other classical genious's and reading all kinds of classical literature etc.

Many people up until then I guess were of the belief that art was such a humanizing force that nobody who appreciated art could possibly be so brutal - that the uglier parts of the world were caused by stupid people or philistines etc.




You should watch the movie "The Pianist" for a perfect example of what you're getting at.


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People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
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