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InvisibleDavethefaker
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Can't tell if iI took too much or not enough
    #22488937 - 11/07/15 12:14 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

So I tried my first solo high dose a few weeks back, and to be honest I still don't know what happened. My aim was to experience ego loss and have a deep introspective session. I took about 35g wet Atlantic truffles in tea, laid in bed with ear plugs and an eye mask. The come up was enjoyable, no anxiety but more excitement.

I remember a sensation of things crowding around me - confusing CEV's coming closer and surrounding me. I remember thinking how it might have been frightening if I wasn't prepared, but still being aware it was the shrooms and enjoying the show.

The problem is I don't actually recall the peak. I can remember tiny pieces, but it's as if my memory only came back to me when I started coming down. I do recall a sensation of slowly remembering who I was again - much like remembering a dream you had hours before. This suggests I did experience ego loss, but if so it was totally the opposite from what I expected. Having read reports on here I was expecting a powerful sensation (many describe it as having their ego pulled apart), but in my case it seemed to creep up on me and then end before I became aware /was able to create memories. Does that sound like ego loss?

I remember going to the fridge to get more tea, but I never actually took it. I do wonder how the trip would have gone if I had. I definitely feel I need to repeat the experience to better understand it, maybe I was going into the trip with too much expectation and baggage. But I don't know what I should aim for with the dose. On the other end hand I feel I shold aim a bit higher next time, but on the other if that was a level 5 trip I probably shouldn't . I'm just surprised I'm not able to recall much of it at all.

Anyone else found similar things with higher doses?


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Re: Can't tell if iI took too much or not enough [Re: Davethefaker]
    #22489412 - 11/07/15 07:25 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

That is quite unusual to not remember the peak.

Ive had quick peaks on fresh mushrooms.

I would let your tolerance drop aand try again.

Never done truffles, so i cannot comment on how the experience compares to cubes. But shrooms species in my experience have their own unique experience to each of them...


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OfflineAldebaran
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Re: Can't tell if iI took too much or not enough [Re: Davethefaker]
    #22489756 - 11/07/15 09:19 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I remember a sensation of things crowding around me - confusing CEV's coming closer and surrounding me.




That sounds exactly like what happens to me on my strong trips, the CEV are no longer just a background effect - being "crowded" and "surrounded" by them is a good description of what happens. (I also trip on truffles, 35g is the kind of dose you would expect to get some kind of ego loss or at least a very strong trip).

Quote:

The problem is I don't actually recall the peak. I can remember tiny pieces, but it's as if my memory only came back to me when I started coming down. I do recall a sensation of slowly remembering who I was again - much like remembering a dream you had hours before. This suggests I did experience ego loss




That does sound like an ego-loss experience of some kind, especially the 'coming back' part. Possibly the tea accelerated the effects and you were able to "drift" into that kind of state without fighting it, so you didn't get that "oh my God what is happening to me" feeling of facing an apocalypse inside your mind.

Quote:

if so it was totally the opposite from what I expected. Having read reports on here I was expecting a powerful sensation




I think there's actually a range of effects, a trip doesn't always fit snugly into the category of "ego death" or "ego loss" but you are getting aspects of the experince. There was a bit of discussion in this thread and I posted some links to other threads where I tried to define ego death / ego loss. Personally I would use "ego death" to refer to something really powerful and profound (sometimes very harsh) where you want to emphasize that the trip really blew your mind, and "ego loss" where its more of a gentle drift into this ego-less state or whatever you want to call it.

Anyway, I've had some trips where I've drifted off like this, but it's been almost more like being asleep than anything particularly profound.

Quote:

in my case it seemed to creep up on me and then end before I became aware /was able to create memories. Does that sound like ego loss?




It's interesting you say this - if you define "ego loss" as a pure state of not-being-there, then it would be a bit pointless and uninteresting because you don't have any experience or memory of it, like deep sleep or blackout. This "oblivion" is one aspect of it, but I think what really fascinates people is when they get a deep mystical/spiritual experience of something that feels immensely profound, that when their usual "brain chatter" recedes, feelings of "self" break up into fragmented consciousness......there is a feeling of deep unification where the mind suddenly seems to be part of a much larger universe, a really expansive oceanic sense of an external power that enters and fills your mind and fills you with bliss, leaving you (as you come back to your senses) with a feeling that you've glimpsed into the heart of things and witnessed something incredible.

In a sense, its like the CEV that were "crowding" and "surrounding" you start off as a kind of external threat, they really push at the frontiers of your mind and seem to threaten your existence.....then at the peak you are heading towards oblivion and all this stuff rushes in to fill the vacuum and you become conscious of something much larger - as if all the aspects of reality that seemed to be "external" now become part of your conscious experience as a unified whole.

So....yes it would be fair to say you experienced a fair degree of ego loss, but there is more to the experience too, along the lines you were initially expecting.

Quote:

I definitely feel I need to repeat the experience to better understand it




Yes, there is lot that goes on and leaves you thinking "what actually just happened?" especially during the moments of the trip where you aren't really there as such. This is one reason I like to record my thoughts on paper in a "trip journal" - it shows my comments on the effects of the trip as they get stronger, then there is an obvious 'break' where I feel like the trip is taking over, then all sorts of wacky comments after the peak where I'm becoming delusional.

You might remember more if you eat the truffles instead of making tea, the trip would progress more slowly (although it might also be more uncomfortable). The positives from your experience are that you were able to loosen your grip on your mind and let the trip "take over" without fighting it, which is what you need to do at higher doses.

Quote:

maybe I was going into the trip with too much expectation




It can be better if you don't have a fixed idea of what's going to happen, because any trip is going to be a really personal thing. But if you do get a full-on experience it will feel like a revelation to you, its hard to exaggerate how immense it feels.

Quote:

On the other end hand I feel I shold aim a bit higher next time, but on the other if that was a level 5 trip I probably shouldn't




Maybe slightly higher would do it, I think you are close.

Quote:

But I don't know what I should aim for with the dose.




The kind of trip I have in mind is similar to what you described, but as you drift into this oblivion you get a powerful, revelatory experience that leads to a cascade of more revelations and rushing thoughts for the rest of the trip, as you try to make sense of what just happened. This can be highly delusional, it can feel as though you've unlocked all the secrets of the universe, you've become God, you've died and this is the afterlife, the peak of the trip was some kind of alien prescence revealing itself...........all sorts of stuff can cascade through your mind - you have all the answers, you know everything......and then as you come down you start to think "hmmmm, maybe that was all due to the drug".

So.....there's something very beautiful and profound that can happen at the peak of the trip, but if you overshoot with too high a dose, you go further and further into a delusional frame of mind which is trying and failing to make sense of it all. Somewhere in between is a beautiful trip which feels spiritual and profound but leaves you with more peace and fewer labyrinths of endless confusion.


--------------------
I wrote that, but I meant something else


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Offlinevoodoochild1000
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Re: Can't tell if iI took too much or not enough [Re: Aldebaran]
    #22489862 - 11/07/15 09:40 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

My last trip (6g dry cyans) I felt this feeling of dissolving reality...how everything became nothing...like I saw an infinite universe of interconnected mechanisms....light,movement,physics, manifestations,love,ect. Were all interconnected in a great symphony...every action and reaction leading to this moment....


....my salvia OD showed me that there are things that the mind is not prepared to deal with.....one of these things is time..

.....just beyond comprehension. ....mind shattering...:mindexpanding::wonka:


--------------------
....."So Great!"....-Me on 1.5mg LSD :vibin:

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Edited by voodoochild1000 (11/07/15 09:42 AM)


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OfflineAcaterpillar
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Re: Can't tell if iI took too much or not enough [Re: voodoochild1000] * 2
    #22490456 - 11/07/15 11:50 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I agree with much of what Aldebaran said. Ego death is comparable to a state of non-being, or singularity.
There aren't really memories or experiences, as we know, to create while in the state because your ego has dissipated and without a sense of will you cannot perform any critical thought to make an analysis of the sensations you are undergoing.

The most profound ego deaths I have experienced have been much like deep sleep or blackout.
I was aware of being, but there was no sense of individuality. All barriers had dissolved and all was one.


--------------------
Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu..
*Cough* *Cough*
Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu...

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Invisiblefilthyknees
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Re: Can't tell if iI took too much or not enough [Re: Acaterpillar]
    #22493856 - 11/08/15 01:16 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Wouldn't discribe the 30g fresh range of truffles as ego loss. It's really clear headed. If you want mind blowing psychedelic worm hole status trip try cubes.


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InvisibleDavethefaker
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Re: Can't tell if iI took too much or not enough [Re: Aldebaran]
    #22494496 - 11/08/15 07:14 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Wow that kind you for taking the time to give such a detailed reply, that's really helpful advice!

I definitely feel it was ego loss not a death, and like you said it was a bit pointless in that I didn't really gain anything from the experience. And ego death is more what I had in mind. Perhaps having the eye mask and earplugs brought me closer to sleep too?

I'll take a slightly higher dose next time, and might not use an eye mask. Tea is the only real option for me as I order the truffles fresh online in bulk and have to freeze them (tripping more than monthly isn't a practical option for me, neither is drying ). But I might try redosing to extend it if I feel like it. The profound experience you described is my goal.

Thanks again for the reply, I appreciate the help.


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OfflineAldebaran
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Re: Can't tell if iI took too much or not enough [Re: filthyknees]
    #22494709 - 11/08/15 08:37 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Wouldn't discribe the 30g fresh range of truffles as ego loss.




Typical commercial stuff maybe not, recent 30g "magic truffle" trips for me have been more fun / euphoric and focused on my personal life without being mindblowing (although I usually take 15g first then another 15g after 90 minutes, so the peak is less intense than it might be).

Potency does vary a lot though with truffles, a potent batch can be punishingly intense at 30g, I've had full-on trips in the past at that kind of dose. The stuff I've been taking recently is good between 35 to 45g for a really intense trip, if that's not enough for a full-on psychedelic meltdown then the quality / potency is a bit poor.

Quote:

Tea is the only real option for me as I order the truffles fresh online in bulk and have to freeze them




OK that makes sense. If tea is hitting too fast I suppose you can just sip it more slowly, I've seen posts where people mention they do this.

Quote:

But I might try redosing to extend it if I feel like it.




My preference with sclerotia has always been to split the dose 50/50 with a redose after 90 minutes (maybe with tea it might be better to redose slightly earlier at 60~ minutes to keep the momentum of the trip going). This gives me a more comfortable onset and then the trip will keep climbing in intensity when the redose hits (although other people report varying degrees of success doing this kind of thing, most people will say don't bother redosing).

I find that without redosing, a heavy trip is either too intense at the beginning, or fizzles out too quickly, or a combination of both. The past couple of lower-dose sclerotia trips I've done (15g one trip, another time 22g) started out OK with a drift into a dreamy state with some good CEV (I could relax my mind and feel like I was entering into the CEV in some kind of trancelike state) but then the major psychedelic effects wore off after a couple of hours and it was just a general feeling of being 'high'. More like a teaser trailer for a trip than a proper trip, a redose would have boosted these trips into something much more interesting.


--------------------
I wrote that, but I meant something else


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InvisibleDavethefaker
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Re: Can't tell if iI took too much or not enough [Re: Aldebaran]
    #22496680 - 11/08/15 04:55 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks again for the advice, redosing at 60 mins sounds like the way to go. Sipping slower too, I had finished the tea in about 5 mins last time. Definitely felt like it peaked before I could recognise it then fizzled out fairly rapidly too.

I'm trying a different source this time too, previous I'd used an online smart shop but I've been recommended a wholesale source so potency may vary (they're not vacuum sealed this time, but its only 7days in transit and I'll make the tea the day they arrive so hopefully they stay fresh).

So if I wanted a 45g rather than 35g dose this time, would I be taking 25g then 20 an hour later? And am I counting from when I first start or when I finish the tea?


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Invisiblefilthyknees
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Re: Can't tell if iI took too much or not enough [Re: Davethefaker]
    #22498324 - 11/08/15 10:21 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

If it was me i would finely chop, lemon tek 20gs, then 10 minutes later take another 20g lemon tek. Taken like a shot.

Tried this with two doses of 15g each and was great. I think 40g total would be fun but I think that would approach the mindfuck level of stones if there is such a thing :0 report back please op.

That guy quoting me made a good point about potency, I only ever ate from two ms grows, two different varieties at dosages of micro, fresh@:5,10,15,20,25,23&30g at ages ranging from 2-6 months. Found 25g fresh truffles to give me a solid ~3.5g cubensis equivalent (though it's different) definite trip. Where I was comfertably and fully 'there' and not inbetween. To give you some idea what I'm basing my numbers on. Hope this helps.


--------------------
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If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow
That it's one thing to try and another to fly
You get there quicker just a step at a time
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The show ain't over till you pack up at night


Edited by filthyknees (11/08/15 10:37 PM)


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Re: Can't tell if iI took too much or not enough [Re: Davethefaker]
    #22499704 - 11/09/15 10:01 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Davethefaker said:
I'm trying a different source this time too, previous I'd used an online smart shop but I've been recommended a wholesale source so potency may vary (they're not vacuum sealed this time, but its only 7days in transit and I'll make the tea the day they arrive so hopefully they stay fresh).





IME fresh truffles have to be refrigerated all the time to remain potent. "Only" 7 days transit is enough to negatively effect their potency. Very much so.

And besides losing potency, the effect also changes. You can't simply take more of old truffles and come back to the same effect of really fresh ones. The effect will be dulled. Certain aspects of the trip will disappoint.

Which I think explains your dosages and effects. Where I live we have an abundant supply of the best fresh truffles all the time. With these I find anything over 20-25gr absolutely shattering. As in a wail in a curl up fetal way. I would never take +35gr of those and expect not to black out. Of course YMMV.

Apart from this, I think Aldebaran said some very good things already.

I also think you took enough, and should experiment with different set and settings. Many different things can happen on 35gr truffles. Even on old ones.

Love, Hanz.


--------------------
Small scale alternative parties rich in empathy and extravagance. Happen to know of one in the vicinity of Amsterdam? PM me my dear fellow. I love to meet some other freaks.

Oh and, if you can,.. embrace the nyctomorph. It needs you.


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OfflineAldebaran
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Re: Can't tell if iI took too much or not enough [Re: Davethefaker]
    #22500578 - 11/09/15 01:55 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

So if I wanted a 45g rather than 35g dose this time, would I be taking 25g then 20 an hour later? And am I counting from when I first start or when I finish the tea?




It's pure guesswork and experimentation really. Personally I'd take the initial dose similar to the way you did before, over 5 or 10 mins, just to get the trip going - because its 25g and not 35g, it should come on with less "oomph".

I like to redose when the trip feels like it's underway, when it's building but not peaking yet. I usually time everything from when I first start munching the truffles, so I'd time it from when you start drinking the tea.

Personally I'd take the first dose more quickly but perhaps sip the second dose of tea a bit more slowly, I think you'll soon notice it start to escalate the effects. If you consumed the redose gradually between the 60 to 90 minute mark I'd guess that would work OK, but it's basically an experiment - it might work, it might not. In fact it might be hard to tell which changes are down to redosing, which are down to the overall increase in dose, and which are due to the change in source/potency..... a few different variables in play!

I'd be a bit careful with the dose if you are trying a new source; the potency could be different. Also going from 35 to 45g is almost 30% more, could make a big difference, maybe 40g would be the next logical step up, like filthyknees says. You do get some impression of the potency between the first dose and the redose (allowing you to scale back your plans if necessary), but a trip can go from something gentle to total mindfuckery very quickly when you redose, because its like pouring fuel on a fire which is already lit.

Quote:

Hanz said: Many different things can happen on 35gr truffles




Indeed! With potent truffles that is a very substantial dose, going beyond that is only something I do when I know that the potency is not so amazing (I've been knocked sideways by 15g doses in the past, but it's unusual).

My general approach to tripping is to take a dose that is sufficient for the effects I want, but avoids overkill. I only take more next time if the previous trip seems to be missing something and needs a kick - I've already done enough exploring at high doses 'just to see what happens'. Taking too much can lead to a feeling of "missing out" same as taking too little - because the trip feels more fragmentary and incoherent. Sometimes its interesting to "accidentally on purpose" end up in a real meat-grinder of a trip, but its very gruelling.

Quote:

Hanz said: I also think you took enough, and should experiment with different set and settings.




With a really heavy dose I'd only consider doing it indoors. Personally I trip sitting in bed listening to music on headphones, writing in my trip journal occasionally, looking around the room, closing my eyes to watch the CEV....trancing out, going slowly insane....

Quote:

And ego death is more what I had in mind.




It can all get a bit 'world war three' at these kind of doses. The peak of the trip can be amazing, but the climb to the peak can be terrifying - as the trip closes in it can feel more like a "death trip" than anything spiritual or desirable.

To quote Grof, who I think originated the term "ego death" (or at least made it more well known):

Quote:

While only a small step separates us from the experience of radical liberation, we have a sense of all-pervading anxiety and impending catastrophe of enormous proportions. The impression of imminent doom can be very convincing and overwhelming. The predominant feeling is that we are losing all that we know and that we are. At the same time, we have no idea what is on the other side, or even if there is anything there at all.




Aiming for "ego death" is one of those 'be careful what you wish for' deals. If the trip feels like you've broken reality and there is some imminent metaphysical catastrophe approaching, some connection to the "other side" of reality, there is a feeling of awe but also of fear. So be sure to wear your psychonaut helmet, and prepare to surrender everything to the trip, that's when the good stuff happens. :peace:

:ufo:


--------------------
I wrote that, but I meant something else


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InvisibleDavethefaker
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Re: Can't tell if iI took too much or not enough [Re: Aldebaran]
    #22501511 - 11/09/15 05:20 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah I was a bit concerned that shipping would negatively affect potency, but being in the UK means I can't do much about it atm. I'd like to go hunting but I know nothing about it, and don't want to make a mistake and poison myself. I may try growing in the future - has anyone tried those pre prepared grow kits that come almost done, and you finish yourself in 3 days?  They sound like  a good idea but I'm not sure how well they actually keep.

They arrived today and I made the tea as soon as I was home. Only difference is previous ones were vacuum sealed, whereas these aren't (the supplier claimed it didn't make a difference).

I reckon 40g is a more sensible dose actually, given the new source. And I like the idea of drinking the first one quickly then sipping the redose. I was feeling prepared for ego death at the last trip (well, as much as I could be anyway), and I think it was more disappointment that I seemed to miss the peak somehow. Do you guys think this has anything to do with their lack of freshness maybe?

Regarding setting, laying in bed in a dark room is probably going to be my staple when experimenting with higher doses, as I'm after an introspective experience. As for set, I'll do what I can but my aim is to try and give up control as much as possible. I'm considering packing with the film The Fountain the day before (not the happiest film, but ties into the death and rebirth theme nicely!).

I'll be taking them Saturday, will try and get a report up soon after - but if it's anything like my last trip, I might need a few days to process it!


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OfflineAldebaran
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Re: Can't tell if iI took too much or not enough [Re: Davethefaker]
    #22504760 - 11/10/15 11:56 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

has anyone tried those pre prepared grow kits that come almost done, and you finish yourself in 3 days?




No, but every time anyone mentions them on the Shroomery there is usually a chorus of disapproval! If you did want to go down the cultivation route, then growing your own sclerotia is an option. I don't think it's massively complicated or requires too much outlay on equipment, just requires some time researching. If only there was a website somewhere in cyberspace where people knew lots about how to do this kind of thing........ :wink:

Quote:

Only difference is previous ones were vacuum sealed, whereas these aren't (the supplier claimed it didn't make a difference).




As long as they arrive in edible condition, that's the main thing.

Quote:

I think it was more disappointment that I seemed to miss the peak somehow. Do you guys think this has anything to do with their lack of freshness maybe?




Well Hanz has some interesting comments in his post upthread.

Personally I think trip characteristics are mostly down to dosage, which in turn depends on the combination of amount consumed and the potency of it. You can feel when you've taken a high dose because it hits in a way that lets you know about it, its something physical you can feel, along with the intense visuals and the racing thoughts.

If you are getting intense, vibrant CEVs that's a good sign of a quality trip on a reasonable dose - there may be an issue with potency loss during transport, storage, freezing e.t.c but I think you should be able to compensate by simply consuming more (as already discussed, 35g or 40g is a lot, for fresh homegrown potent truffles it would be a crazy dose).

I've had a couple of trips where the initial onset was strong, followed by "falling asleep within the trip" and waking up to find that the effects drop off quickly, without getting a satisfactory peak experience. In fact that's the main reason I prefer to redose. I don't think it was due to quality issues, just my body's response to a particular dose. I wanted to calm down the onset but boost the later part of the trip, so I experimented with redosing.

Quote:

Regarding setting, laying in bed in a dark room is probably going to be my staple when experimenting with higher doses, as I'm after an introspective experience.




Whatever suits you. I do like a bit of audio accompaniment myself, there are some tracks that sound beautiful while tripping; this is one of my favourites:

Rapoon - Waddi Haj


Quote:

I'm considering packing with the film The Fountain the day before




Just looked that up on Wikipedia.....I'm surprised I've not heard of it before. Sounds interesting....and it's got Rachel Weisz in it, that's good enough for me :lol:

Quote:

I'll be taking them Saturday, will try and get a report up soon after




Cool, I'll be interested to read about it :mushroom2:

Good vibes!

:awecid:


--------------------
I wrote that, but I meant something else


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