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Offlineshootoox
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Bulk spawn with monotub, need answers. *DELETED*
    #22486913 - 11/06/15 04:09 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: Bulk spawn with monotub, need answers. [Re: shootoox]
    #22487001 - 11/06/15 04:24 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

You can use many size tubs, just fill it with water liter by liter until you have the substrate depth you want (say 2.5-3.5 in,) and then you know how much spawn+sub to put in the tub.

66 quart ~ = ~ 66L is what people tend to use for a full mono.

Smaller monos work great though, down to 15-20L if they have the clearance for fruiting.

I would spawn at between 1:1.5 and 1:2 for your first run.  That way any contaminant in your spawn has a better chance of being overrun, and if you screw up you wasted less bulk substrate and less effort.

Spawn ratios are also described in a weird way.  So 1:2 for instance is one Quart Jar of spawn to 2 actual quarts of substrate.

So that's really like 2-3.25 cups of grain to 8 cups of substrate, or between 1:2.45 to 1:4 volume of grain to volume of sub.  Shit's weird, wish people would standardize it.

I'd go with wild bird seed (make sure it's mostly millet/milo.)  I've found it fairly shakeable even after sketchy preparations, and it seems to have very low bacterial endospore count unlike rye.  Still, plenty of people use rye without any problem.  Can't really go wrong either way.

Check out Fooman's WBS prep.


--------------------


I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


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Offlineshootoox
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Re: Bulk spawn with monotub, need answers. [Re: Machiavelliavore]
    #22488489 - 11/06/15 09:41 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Thank you so much for your answer :laugh:

Iam totally lost here haha.

"Spawn ratios are also described in a weird way.  So 1:2 for instance is one Quart Jar of spawn to 2 actual quarts of substrate.

So that's really like 2-3.25 cups of grain to 8 cups of substrate, or between 1:2.45 to 1:4 volume of grain to volume of sub.  Shit's weird, wish people would standardize it."

The jars i have is 1,1QT and i have read that u shouldnt put it all the way to the top.
Since u need to shake it.
The question here is then how much.
But with the substrate i can fill it all the way top and then it really isn't 1:2 anymore since i have not filled it with 1.1QT of WBS in this case.


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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: Bulk spawn with monotub, need answers. [Re: shootoox]
    #22488570 - 11/06/15 10:06 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

1 Quart = .95 Liters

I'd recommend you start filling them about half way.  You have a much better chance of being able to effectively shake them if you end up with slightly sticky grain.  For a 70L mono, use like one extra grain jar.  One 650g brick of coir and 6-7 half full jars of spawn is about right.  Inoculate the grain jars with only a small amount of spore solution, say 1/4cc on either side.  If you can, shake the jars to test for recovery before spawning, and smell them for anything that seems wrong.


The way people state the ratios here is like this:  They say 1:2, which actually means

The contents of one quart grain jar spawned to two actual quarts of substrate.

People fill their quart jars between 1/2 and 3/4 full typically.




I would also suggest that two mini monos would better than one large mono.  You really don't want one dirty grain jar to sink your entire project.  3 half full jars would be about perfect for two minis.  Use one brick of coir (650g) for both.  Mix the spawn separately to prevent contamination.


--------------------


I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


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Offlineshootoox
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Re: Bulk spawn with monotub, need answers. [Re: shootoox]
    #22488607 - 11/06/15 10:16 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Ok!
So its better for me to go with two 42L instead of 70L.
I guess u got a point because if i screw up the morale gets kinda low hehe.
I gonna get 5 different strains next week =)they had an offer so i might just take it.

Shall i put little spore solution from my syringe on a agar plate and then wait for it to colonize on the agar.
And then move little agar in my jars?

Or do you think i shall wait with that since there is so much new stuffs going on for me.

BTW:
Iam really glad that you offer your help to me it means alot thx.


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OfflineShabs
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Re: Bulk spawn with monotub, need answers. [Re: shootoox]
    #22488634 - 11/06/15 10:23 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

As a fellow noob, Frank's threads have been invaluable to me. The first is his 12 steps to shrooms. I'm basically following it right now. The second link is his larger thread of how he gets shit done. I've read through almost all of them and am incorporating a couple of the ideas into his 12 easy steps.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19792837

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17897163

Again, as a fellow noob, I would recommend starting easier. Save agar for the next go around. More steps = more opportunity to mess up. While we're still trying to get our technique down I think it's better to stick to the basics. I even went through PF Tek several times just to get the very basics of how to grow mushrooms and the mushroom life cycle down, but there are so many good bulk teks now that I don't think that's really necessary.


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Re: Bulk spawn with monotub, need answers. [Re: shootoox]
    #22488702 - 11/06/15 10:40 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Fun to hear man =)
Do you have growlog or something would be nice to follow it.
Yeah maybe you are right, agar seems kinda easy to do thats why i asked.
You just have to be clean hehe maybe its harder then it sounds.

I have done a couple of cakes before as well with a shotgun.
Wanna try something else this time hehe.


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Re: Bulk spawn with monotub, need answers. [Re: shootoox]
    #22488709 - 11/06/15 10:43 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

shootoox said:


Shall i put little spore solution from my syringe on a agar plate and then wait for it to colonize on the agar.
And then move little agar in my jars?

Or do you think i shall wait with that since there is so much new stuffs going on for me.



Agar for sure!


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OfflineShabs
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Re: Bulk spawn with monotub, need answers. [Re: shootoox]
    #22488727 - 11/06/15 10:47 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I've thought about a growlog but haven't set one up yet. My first step was to write out my own tek after reading a lot of threads, mostly Frank's. That was a good step for me as now everything is in my own words and typing it all out helped me understand the process a bit better and give me confidence that I know what the hell I'm doing :smirk:. It's really more of just a checklist of steps, no filler or anything. I've constructed my SAB and lids, but still need to make the monotubs, I want to have all the hardware preparation done before I start growing at all so there's no chance that it isn't ready on time. I'm out of town this weekend and have a very busy week ahead, but hopefully will have time to make my monotubs and inoculate, otherwise I'll start the next week for sure.


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Re: Bulk spawn with monotub, need answers. [Re: wowimflabbergasted]
    #22488729 - 11/06/15 10:48 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Tigerdrops are a good way to go if you're just starting out with agar and think you might fuck up your sterile technique.  Inoculate through a polyfill port with the syringe and follow the tigerdrop and there's not a lot of room for error.

Obviously, inspect what grows and post photos of it here.


--------------------


I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


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Re: Bulk spawn with monotub, need answers. [Re: Machiavelliavore]
    #22488738 - 11/06/15 10:50 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Inoculate what through a polyfil port? Mini-rounds?


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Re: Bulk spawn with monotub, need answers. [Re: wowimflabbergasted]
    #22488797 - 11/06/15 11:14 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

wowimflabbergasted said:
Inoculate what through a polyfil port? Mini-rounds?



If you push hard enough That works out great.


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Re: Bulk spawn with monotub, need answers. [Re: LocN9ne]
    #22488880 - 11/06/15 11:41 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah if you're going to inoc through a filter that would be the best one for minis.


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Re: Bulk spawn with monotub, need answers. [Re: wowimflabbergasted]
    #22514658 - 11/12/15 03:52 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Her is another question i hope i can get a answer on :laugh:

As i written before iam about to try agar...but i will probably go with MS on my first bulkspawn.
Since there is less steps to mess up with hehe.
But i will try Agar later on i already have plastic agar plates and a few in glass.

So the thing i wonder if what kind of LID tek i shall go with?
I borrowed a guys thread earlier this week but didnt get an answer so i hope i get more luck in my own haha.

I dont have this "Mason jars" with the lid and ring mine is just a solid single metal lid.
I probably gonna use WBS but not 100% sure yet maybe i go for rye..

Shall i go with this tek http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10628004/fpart/all/vc/1
Or shall i just drill a hole in the center of the lid and stuff it tight with polyfill and inject throu that?
I know you guys prefer SFD´s but i cant get it and its to expensive for me to order.

Or do you think another tek would be better?

EDIT: Just relised that my PC that i bought some years ago only go for 8psi..I used it for PF-Tek and i just double the time it was no problem.
I hope i can do the same thing with grains :shrug:
//Shootoox


Edited by shootoox (11/12/15 04:11 PM)


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OfflineShabs
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Re: Bulk spawn with monotub, need answers. [Re: shootoox]
    #22514831 - 11/12/15 04:45 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

shootoox said:
EDIT: Just relised that my PC that i bought some years ago only go for 8psi..I used it for PF-Tek and i just double the time it was no problem.
I hope i can do the same thing with grains :shrug:
//Shootoox




According to wiki steam sterilization should be at 121 degrees C. According to this site 8 psi will only get you to about 113 degrees C. You need to get up to 15 psi to hit 121 degrees. You can certainly try it with increased cooking time, but I would look into getting a better PC.


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Re: Bulk spawn with monotub, need answers. [Re: Shabs]
    #22515082 - 11/12/15 05:51 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah getting a new one would be the best.
But they are not so easy to obtain where i live.
Hoppfully some one have tested it


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OfflineShabs
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Re: Bulk spawn with monotub, need answers. [Re: shootoox]
    #22515714 - 11/12/15 08:42 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Not sure where you live, but I found my first at a garage sale. Ebay and Craigslist, or whatever site similar to those you have access to can be your friends too.


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Re: Bulk spawn with monotub, need answers. [Re: Shabs]
    #22517806 - 11/13/15 11:48 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Already checked all of em.
PC aint so much used here.

But i found information on this site regarding the PC part.
And for 9PSI = 2,5h so i guess i just go 2,75h with my 8psi :cool:
Just have to check so it dont run dry in there.

Still need some help regarding the lids :/


Edited by shootoox (11/13/15 01:12 PM)


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Offlineshootoox
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Re: Bulk spawn with monotub, need answers. [Re: shootoox]
    #22580444 - 11/26/15 11:34 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Ok so just a check before i drill my holes in the mono.
Some information about the tub.
Its 60L and the tape in picuture is the water level and is about 4 inches high up. My jars i gonna use is 1.1L so i kinda filled them around 1L and i put 17 jars of water in there.
The little marking u can see is 1 inch above the water level where the + is.
So i gonna use my 1,5 inch holesaw to drill the holes.



Have i dont it correctly? now when i think of it seems to be very high up..
What i really dont get is how much spawn vs substrate i shall use.
I have followed this TEK http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20356759

And he say he have 6-7jars of spawn and 14-16 jars of substrate.
But then u have 22-23 jars in the tub and the water level is at 17jars wouldnt it be very low?

Thank you!


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OfflineMycologist217
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Re: Bulk spawn with monotub, need answers. [Re: shootoox]
    #22580456 - 11/26/15 11:43 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I use 1" holes on the long sides of my tubs and 1.5" holes on the top holes on the shorter sides.
But I think that is personal preference type of thing....I know it's easier to tightly stuff a one inch hole than to tightly stuff a 1.5 inch hole....also if the crosses are where you will be drilling...they look pretty high up...I believe you want them to sit to where the bottom of the hole is level with the top of the substrate so water gets pulled off the substrate as air moves from high to low pressure....I had my holes really high up on my first made tub but didn't notice any negative results. I'm using that tub again right now and it's pinning nicely.


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Re: Bulk spawn with monotub, need answers. [Re: Mycologist217]
    #22580496 - 11/27/15 12:01 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Hmm according to the tek he says 1inch above water level and that is 1inch above water level.
But i totally get what you mean i also think its very high up thats why i asked.
So if it where up to you!
You would drill the hole with the holesaw where the tape is?


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OfflinefirstTIMER420
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Re: Bulk spawn with monotub, need answers. [Re: shootoox]
    #22580588 - 11/27/15 12:44 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Youll be fine with holes 4 inches up. I use the generic sterilite 66qt  holes 7 inches from the sides and 8 inches from each other, 4 inches up from bottom.  1.5" holes is standard all around the tub.

You want to do the measurements and mark them. The bottom of your  hole saw will hit the 4" up + side marks..

Make sure you use lighter polyfill on the top holes. bottom stuffed pretty tight.


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Edited by firstTIMER420 (11/27/15 12:47 AM)


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Re: Bulk spawn with monotub, need answers. [Re: firstTIMER420]
    #22580630 - 11/27/15 01:06 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I have done the measurments as you can see in the picture i have posted :smile:
The "top" of the tape is 4inches from the bottom and of the tub.
And i have measure 1inch from the toptape but i think it was way to high.
Maybe it will be better if i take the bottom of the holesaw and drill it at top of my tape?


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Re: Bulk spawn with monotub, need answers. [Re: shootoox]
    #22580637 - 11/27/15 01:10 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

take the tape off and just mark 4" with a sharpie, put the bottom of your hole saw on that mark when drilling.

And yes, the hole marks are too high


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Re: Bulk spawn with monotub, need answers. [Re: firstTIMER420]
    #22580649 - 11/27/15 01:20 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Okey thank you very much <3


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Re: Bulk spawn with monotub, need answers. [Re: shootoox]
    #22580661 - 11/27/15 01:25 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I have really tried finding a good WBS bag but all i find either cointans hemp seeds or only sunflower, wheat and oat.
I was wondering if its possible to go with whole grains?

I live in europe and many stuffs is kinda hard to find :/


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OfflineMycologist217
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Re: Bulk spawn with monotub, need answers. [Re: shootoox]
    #22581262 - 11/27/15 08:25 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

People use whole oats for bulk spawn all the time....Whole Oats Prep Tek

Easier than WBS in many people opinion....hope this helps.


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Edited by Mycologist217 (11/27/15 08:25 AM)


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Re: Bulk spawn with monotub, need answers. [Re: Mycologist217]
    #22581363 - 11/27/15 09:00 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Hey I know its been 2 weeks since that post but I have a PC similiar to what you are using. I found that the increased cooking time and the small size of the PC made it impossible to sterilise grains well. If I fill it with less water it ends up running dry and a little more, water comes out of the valve when the pressure is being released. Not to mention since its so small water would just end up going inside my jar.

There was no way around it for me. I just had to import a presto 23. Cost a bit but man I love it. Would have bought the AA if the shipping wasn't through the roof cos of the extra weight.

Today I just saw this 18l sterilisers they sell In the UK on ebay. Costs a bit more than the presto but with the much cheaper shipping it ends up costing less. Plus its stainless steel so its very strong. Also its an actual steriliser so it goes up to 20 psi no problem. I still would have bought the presto if I knew about them before though. Its bigger and 15psi is sufficient for grains. The steriliser has this lip going in where the lid is secured so that might be uncomfortable. Might wanna check them out if you live in the EU though. See which you like best.


Also I hope this aint too late but I would use a solder instead of a drilling piece for the tub. I always end up cracking it but maybe its just cos im a bit of a savage. :lmafo:


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Re: Bulk spawn with monotub, need answers. [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #22584079 - 11/27/15 08:53 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Does your hole saw haave a drill it in the middle? Im assuming, but if not, find one that does as it makes it 100000000000x easier.

And if you crack it that's ok, just make a clean hole after that, after all, its going to be taped anyways.


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Re: Bulk spawn with monotub, need answers. [Re: firstTIMER420]
    #22584186 - 11/27/15 09:32 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

If you don't have a good hole saw, you can use a soldering iron or heat gun + exacto knife to make the holes very easily as well. Even if you have a hole saw, running a hair dryer or heat gun on low over the plastic for a few seconds will make it easier to cut and far less likely to crack.


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Re: Bulk spawn with monotub, need answers. [Re: Shabs]
    #22584833 - 11/28/15 02:35 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Shabs said:
If you don't have a good hole saw, you can use a soldering iron or heat gun + exacto knife to make the holes very easily as well. Even if you have a hole saw, running a hair dryer or heat gun on low over the plastic for a few seconds will make it easier to cut and far less likely to crack.




That's some good advice! Ill definitely give it a go if I ever don't have a solder on hand.


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Offlineshootoox
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Re: Bulk spawn with monotub, need answers. [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #22593081 - 11/30/15 01:47 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Supalemonhaze said:
Hey I know its been 2 weeks since that post but I have a PC similiar to what you are using. I found that the increased cooking time and the small size of the PC made it impossible to sterilise grains well. If I fill it with less water it ends up running dry and a little more, water comes out of the valve when the pressure is being released. Not to mention since its so small water would just end up going inside my jar.

There was no way around it for me. I just had to import a presto 23. Cost a bit but man I love it. Would have bought the AA if the shipping wasn't through the roof cos of the extra weight.

Today I just saw this 18l sterilisers they sell In the UK on ebay. Costs a bit more than the presto but with the much cheaper shipping it ends up costing less. Plus its stainless steel so its very strong. Also its an actual steriliser so it goes up to 20 psi no problem. I still would have bought the presto if I knew about them before though. Its bigger and 15psi is sufficient for grains. The steriliser has this lip going in where the lid is secured so that might be uncomfortable. Might wanna check them out if you live in the EU though. See which you like best.


Also I hope this aint too late but I would use a solder instead of a drilling piece for the tub. I always end up cracking it but maybe its just cos im a bit of a savage. :lmafo:




Thank you for your advice <3
Nothing is to late since i havent started it yet i have order some rye berries so waiting for them.
Regarding the PC i really dont want to order a new one.
I dont use it in the kitchen for food cause iam lazy and dont know any recipes probably..
And for mushroom i just want a little hobby by the side so i dont need to grow much hehe.


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InvisibleSupalemonhaze
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Re: Bulk spawn with monotub, need answers. [Re: shootoox]
    #22593754 - 11/30/15 08:31 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

The main problem for me was not the quantity of jars, it was the proper sterilisation of grains. If you don't have contam issues and you're happy with the amount of jars you can make I guess its ok to keep using it.


Just keep an eye out for contams even after full colonisation. Contams have a habit of spreading after you spawn them to tubs making you blame the bulk or casing when it probably originated from the grains.

Goodluck.


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Re: Bulk spawn with monotub, need answers. [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #22628630 - 12/08/15 03:25 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Just an update for you guys.
I have everything needed now =) i found a local farmer that sold some nice eco rye berries, 15kg for 10euro.
The only thing that stop me atm is the pressure cooker but i will try anyway and cross my fingers.
My GF is at my place now so i will not start it up yet but soon enough and then i will make a thread with pictures and stuff =)


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InvisibleSupalemonhaze
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Re: Bulk spawn with monotub, need answers. [Re: shootoox]
    #22630019 - 12/08/15 01:39 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

shootoox said:
15kg for 10euro.





Thats lucky xD. We don't get rye where I live. We get oats though so thats alright.

Quote:

shootoox said:

The only thing that stop me atm is the pressure cooker but i will try anyway and cross my fingers.





By this you mean you're gonna sterilise them with boiling like they do PF tek? If so you're in for a nasty suprise, I doubt you'll kill all the endospores that way.


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Re: Bulk spawn with monotub, need answers. [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #22633704 - 12/09/15 10:51 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Well since my PC only can reach 7.5-8 PSI i dont have any option.
I will try to cook it longer and we will se if it works or not.
Have seen other people on the board with sucess, if u dont try u dont know.

The best option would be to have a 15psi cooker but cant get it now like you know =)


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Re: Bulk spawn with monotub, need answers. [Re: shootoox]
    #22955404 - 02/28/16 02:44 PM (7 years, 10 months ago)

I have tried now and got a problem.
Only problem (well kinda big problem) is that my PC only can go up to 7-8PSI. I still did 8jars but i raised the time to about 2.30H so we will se if it is a success or not.
The jars have now been in my plastic tub for about 16days i think.

I just checked them for the first time but the only growth i saw was some grains with white fluffy on it in some jars.
They are far away for being 25% growth we are talking maybe 5% here.
I dont know if it works but i see no signs of bacteria what so ever but the mycelium spreads so bad :rolleyes:

Frank says "After 5-7 days you should see some growth. Keep waiting."

I have time its not that but since i do not have 15psi PC iam a bit excited to see if it works hehe.
And it seems like it doesnt works as intended what do you guys think could have happend?


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