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InvisibleYarry
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Registered: 01/05/04
Posts: 23,740
Welfare and why it bugs me
    #2248425 - 01/17/04 03:24 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Now dont get me wrong and im not trying to be a prick, but im starting to have a serious problem with welfare. at least in canada im not sure what its like elsewhere. I have a female friend who is on welfare. She has her own apartment, satellite tv, dvd player, tons of dvd's, a sweet computer, and a car thats about 5 years newer then mine. We are the same age. I however work a 40 hour a week job (the job is shitty but still..) and i have to split an apartment with 2 other people. i have a crappy car that is always breaking, and pretty much everything she has i dont. What the fuck is wrong here? i realize i dont make alot but this is almost saying to me that quitting my job is the better idea here. Im too proud and smart to do so but this is a pretty shitty situation..

<\rant>


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Welfare and why it bugs me [Re: Yarry]
    #2248452 - 01/17/04 03:34 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Welfare itself isn't the problem...people's exploitation of the welfare system is the problem.

I went to Norway once, and let me tell you I was DAMN impressed with their welfare system! I was told by anyone I asked that in Norway there are no homeless (I'm sure they meant almost no homeless...though personally I didn't see any so I don't know). They said this was because the government would help you out no matter what: if you lost your job and everything you own...they would give you a place to live, a job, and some money to get yourself started. They also said that no one would choose to continue living on welfare because it just wasn't the "right" way to life - anyone who did need the gov's help would try their damned hardest to get back to a point where they could support themselves.

Again, I was really impressed with what I saw. It's a sad thing that people here feel they can leech off of others. I once knew a girl who was on unemployment, welfare, and still going to school all at the same time while living in her parent's basement.  :mad:


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InvisibleYarry
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Re: Welfare and why it bugs me [Re: trendal]
    #2248460 - 01/17/04 03:38 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I actually recently went to germany and i must agree that the europeans have it right. The homeless, and the poor would be given jobs, not money. Whether it was sweeping streets at night, or cleaning graffiti they helped them find work. Its the same thing "If you catch a man a fish you feed him for a day, if you teach him to fish you feed him for a lifetime" or something like that. The europeans have it right, we have it wrong. Im sick of people exploiting the money that everyone pays to try and help people that actually deserve it. Its a shame..


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Anonymous

Re: Welfare and why it bugs me [Re: Yarry]
    #2248481 - 01/17/04 03:47 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

instead of forcing group A to employ group B as street cleaners and such, why not let group A keep their money and pay group B to do something that they actually want to pay for?


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InvisibleYarry
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Re: Welfare and why it bugs me [Re: ]
    #2248488 - 01/17/04 03:50 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

because group a usually likes to hold onto their money. and very few people will actually hire a homeless person.


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Welfare and why it bugs me [Re: Yarry]
    #2248493 - 01/17/04 03:55 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Try to hire some. Come back and tell us the results. I know people who have tried and these 'poor souls' would rather you just give them some money so they can buy their drug of choice, suddenly they have 200 places they gotta be or some other excuse.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: Welfare and why it bugs me [Re: Yarry]
    #2248554 - 01/17/04 04:44 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

im starting to have a serious problem with welfare. at least in canada im not sure what its like elsewhere. I have a female friend who is on welfare. She has her own apartment, satellite tv, dvd player, tons of dvd's, a sweet computer, and a car

that's not "welfare". that's massive wasteful government spending on social programs.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Welfare and why it bugs me [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2248574 - 01/17/04 04:54 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

that's massive wasteful government spending on social programs



You've just described the welfare system quite accurately.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Anonymous

Re: Welfare and why it bugs me [Re: Yarry]
    #2248612 - 01/17/04 05:08 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

because group a usually likes to hold onto their money.

money is worthless until you use it.

and very few people will actually hire a homeless person.

people don't start out homeless, and for most that are, being unemployed is the least of their problems.

what i'm saying is that instead of forcing people to buy certain things in order to provide people with jobs, why not just let them buy things they want? things run more smoothly that way.


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: Welfare and why it bugs me [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2248628 - 01/17/04 05:13 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

:lol:

true. but I see it as a kind of strawman against welfare.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Welfare and why it bugs me [Re: Yarry]
    #2248732 - 01/17/04 05:52 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

She should be living in a room no more than 3 X4 meters (10'X12') and eating all the free fortified high protein government issue ramen noodles she cares to eat.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Welfare and why it bugs me [Re: ]
    #2249974 - 01/18/04 07:26 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

instead of forcing group A to employ group B as street cleaners and such, why not let group A keep their money and pay group B to do something that they actually want to pay for?




Can you be sure group A actually want enough to provide for group b?


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OfflinePsilocybeingzz
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Re: Welfare and why it bugs me [Re: Yarry]
    #2249984 - 01/18/04 07:43 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Well corporate welfare always is higher then personal.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Registered: 02/26/01
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Re: Welfare and why it bugs me [Re: Yarry]
    #2250163 - 01/18/04 11:59 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

She has her own apartment, satellite tv, dvd player, tons of dvd's, a sweet computer, and a car thats about 5 years newer then mine. We are the same age.

How long has she been on welfare? Did she have a good job before?

The homeless, and the poor would be given jobs, not money.

Not sure where you went in Europe but that certainly isn't the situation in the UK. You get just enough money to eat on welfare. The trouble with giving the homeless jobs is it puts someone else out of a job or drives their wages down to poverty level. Instead of having someone with a job paying a living wage you end up with everyone living on the breadline.

And as Psilo says - the rich get far, far more in welfare than the poor ever do. Maybe we should concentrate on taking some of that back before we start picking on the poor.


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InvisibleYarry
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Re: Welfare and why it bugs me [Re: Xlea321]
    #2250214 - 01/18/04 12:26 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

shes been on welfare for 4 years. and i agree that giving jobs is a weird thing.. jus looked like it worked


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Welfare and why it bugs me [Re: Yarry]
    #2250222 - 01/18/04 12:30 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Must be a different welfare situation to the one we have here. In the UK you get ?50 a week. Pretty hard to run a car and buy DVD's with that.


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InvisibleTrueBrode
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Re: Welfare and why it bugs me [Re: Yarry]
    #2250259 - 01/18/04 12:51 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Here's my problem with welfare. The government is not supposed to run a charity system. The government should not appropriate our money for charity as they see fit. Faith-based initiative is the newest boundary they have decided to step over in this category. This type of socialism should be ended immediately.


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OfflineGranola
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Re: Welfare and why it bugs me [Re: trendal]
    #2250262 - 01/18/04 12:52 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
Welfare itself isn't the problem...people's exploitation of the welfare system is the problem.





if there were no welfare system it would not be exploitable


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Welfare and why it bugs me [Re: Granola]
    #2250511 - 01/18/04 03:10 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

if there were no welfare system it would not be exploitable




There would also likely be people starving, more homeless and an increase in crime rates.
Just because some exploit a system does not mean the system should be scrapped. There is exploitation in practically every type of human interaction. It is just a variable that has to be accepted.


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Anonymous

Re: Welfare and why it bugs me [Re: GazzBut]
    #2250518 - 01/18/04 03:16 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)


instead of forcing group A to employ group B as street cleaners and such, why not let group A keep their money and pay group B to do something that they actually want to pay for?


Can you be sure group A actually want enough to provide for group b?

yes. money is almost always either spent or invested. either way, it employs people.


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