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Psilonoob
Yeastie Boys


Registered: 10/18/15
Posts: 46
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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Growth in waterlogged jars. Toss or keep?
#22483709 - 11/05/15 10:44 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hello folks, I inoculated my first batch on 10/17 using PF Tek with BRF. I put too much water in the PC causing some of the jars to be waterlogged. The substrate is pasty inside the jar. I decided to go and inoculate them anyway. I inoculated these jars in open air. I decided to keep these jars as a lesson, expecting them to be contaminated, but to my surprise there's been explosive myc growth. Can't see much from inside the jar but there doesn't seem to be any sour odor when I take a sniff near the inoc holes.
Do you think these jars are salvageable? Is it okay to put them next to my normal cakes in my SGFC? Or should I crumble the cakes, case them separately from the normal batch?
Jar 1


Jar 2




 Notice that there's substrate seeping out of the Jar 2's inoc hole as a result of waterlogging. I'm surprised this hasn't shown any particularly nasty contams considering the dry verm barrier has been breached.
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firstTIMER420
Born the son of a sharecropper..



Registered: 05/08/15
Posts: 1,025
Loc: US, maybe?
Last seen: 6 years, 3 days
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Re: Growth in waterlogged jars. Toss or keep? [Re: Psilonoob]
#22484022 - 11/05/15 11:55 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hello, welcome to Shroomery.
To start, I see a problem off the bat, wheres the micropore tape that supposed to be over the holes? Even though it does get holes poked through, it does help out keep contams a little bit.
Do these have a dry verm layer?
I would toss them, they look like they are pretty bacterial. How many more jars did you inoculate?
-------------------- 1 2 3 4 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22386794[/url] --Anything posted by this account is completely fictitious--
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Psilonoob
Yeastie Boys


Registered: 10/18/15
Posts: 46
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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Re: Growth in waterlogged jars. Toss or keep? [Re: firstTIMER420]
#22484044 - 11/06/15 12:05 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Thanks for the welcome!
I don't have micropore tape on the lid, but I did have a dry verm layer inside the jar -- which unfortunately got soaked when I tried to PC it.
I suspected it might be bacterial as well, but I was surprised to see a lot of myc growth, plus I don't smell anything sour from the jars at all. All that pasty stuff you see is just substrate with too much water -- it's been like that since the first day.
I have 7 other jars that turned out alright (substrate not too wet), currently incubating.
Edited by Psilonoob (11/06/15 12:13 AM)
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firstTIMER420
Born the son of a sharecropper..



Registered: 05/08/15
Posts: 1,025
Loc: US, maybe?
Last seen: 6 years, 3 days
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Re: Growth in waterlogged jars. Toss or keep? [Re: Psilonoob]
#22484083 - 11/06/15 12:18 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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you never know, it could be fine, But you cant really see as its cloudy in there. And a substrate that's too wet is almost gaurenteed to get bacterial.
Pic of an ok jar?
What PC did you use? Many have a line which tells where the minimum fill lvl is, or it says so in the instr manual.
-------------------- 1 2 3 4 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22386794[/url] --Anything posted by this account is completely fictitious--
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Psilonoob
Yeastie Boys



Registered: 10/18/15
Posts: 46
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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Re: Growth in waterlogged jars. Toss or keep? [Re: firstTIMER420]
#22484124 - 11/06/15 12:39 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Here's pictures of 2 of my fully colonized jars so far. Inoculated 10/18, and I plan on putting it in a SGFC by next Thursday 11/12.
It got a little too cold in the house so there was a lot of condensation inside the jars. Some of the condensation is a bit gelatinous, but I hope that it's just because of the substrate and not due to bacterial growth...



Edited by Psilonoob (11/06/15 12:41 AM)
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LocN9ne
ɢᄋᄋd ԲᄋЯ ᄁᄋȚᅢΙᄁɢ ᄂᄋ₩ᄂΙԲᄐ



Registered: 04/17/15
Posts: 7,076
Loc: to the brain
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Re: Growth in waterlogged jars. Toss or keep? [Re: firstTIMER420]
#22484129 - 11/06/15 12:41 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
firstTIMER420 said: Hello, welcome to Shroomery.
To start, I see a problem off the bat, wheres the micropore tape that supposed to be over the holes? Even though it does get holes poked through, it does help out keep contams a little bit.
Do these have a dry verm layer?
I would toss them, they look like they are pretty bacterial. How many more jars did you inoculate?
Micropore tape on brf cakes is completely unnecessary, and if you inoculate through the tape it is rendered useless....
Why do you have foil under your lid?
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Q&A US vs. THEM The more I learn, the less I know.
Edited by LocN9ne (11/06/15 12:42 AM)
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firstTIMER420
Born the son of a sharecropper..



Registered: 05/08/15
Posts: 1,025
Loc: US, maybe?
Last seen: 6 years, 3 days
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Re: Growth in waterlogged jars. Toss or keep? [Re: LocN9ne]
#22484135 - 11/06/15 12:43 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
LocN9ne said:
Quote:
firstTIMER420 said: Hello, welcome to Shroomery.
To start, I see a problem off the bat, wheres the micropore tape that supposed to be over the holes? Even though it does get holes poked through, it does help out keep contams a little bit.
Do these have a dry verm layer?
I would toss them, they look like they are pretty bacterial. How many more jars did you inoculate?
Micropore tape on brf cakes is completely unnecessary, and if you inoculate through the tape it is rendered useless....
Why do you have foil under your lid?
No it isn't. It keeps contams out until you inject the spores. If your like me, I sterilize and let mine sit for a few days. Also helps to keep some moisture from getting inside the jar that may get under the foil. If there was no purpose, why would it be recommended?
Also, those jars look fine from what I can tell. I see rhizo growth, and don't see any bacterial blotches at first glance. Just make sure you smell them(wearing a mask) when spawning. Any doubts, throw it out, seriously, its not worth your health.
-------------------- 1 2 3 4 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22386794[/url] --Anything posted by this account is completely fictitious--
Edited by firstTIMER420 (11/06/15 12:45 AM)
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LocN9ne
ɢᄋᄋd ԲᄋЯ ᄁᄋȚᅢΙᄁɢ ᄂᄋ₩ᄂΙԲᄐ



Registered: 04/17/15
Posts: 7,076
Loc: to the brain
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Re: Growth in waterlogged jars. Toss or keep? [Re: firstTIMER420]
#22484140 - 11/06/15 12:44 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
firstTIMER420 said:
What PC did you use? Many have a line which tells where the minimum fill lvl is, or it says so in the instr manual.
How would that make any difference?
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Q&A US vs. THEM The more I learn, the less I know.
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LocN9ne
ɢᄋᄋd ԲᄋЯ ᄁᄋȚᅢΙᄁɢ ᄂᄋ₩ᄂΙԲᄐ



Registered: 04/17/15
Posts: 7,076
Loc: to the brain
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Re: Growth in waterlogged jars. Toss or keep? [Re: firstTIMER420]
#22484141 - 11/06/15 12:45 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
firstTIMER420 said:
Quote:
LocN9ne said:
Quote:
firstTIMER420 said: Hello, welcome to Shroomery.
To start, I see a problem off the bat, wheres the micropore tape that supposed to be over the holes? Even though it does get holes poked through, it does help out keep contams a little bit.
Do these have a dry verm layer?
I would toss them, they look like they are pretty bacterial. How many more jars did you inoculate?
Micropore tape on brf cakes is completely unnecessary, and if you inoculate through the tape it is rendered useless....
Why do you have foil under your lid?
No it isn't. It keeps contams out until you inject the spores. If your like me, I sterilize and let mine sit for a few days. Also helps to keep some moisture from getting inside the jar that may get under the foil. If there was no purpose, why would it be recommended?
Also, those jars look fine from what I can tell. I see rhizo growth, and don't see any bacterial blotches at first glance. Just make sure you smell them(wearing a mask) when spawning. Any doubts, throw it out, seriously, its not worth your health.
It's not recommended.
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Q&A US vs. THEM The more I learn, the less I know.
Edited by LocN9ne (11/06/15 12:45 AM)
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Psilonoob
Yeastie Boys



Registered: 10/18/15
Posts: 46
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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Re: Growth in waterlogged jars. Toss or keep? [Re: LocN9ne]
#22484144 - 11/06/15 12:46 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Why do you have foil under your lid?
Because I didn't know any better.
It ends up working out though... I can sharpie the date on my jar lids and throw the foil out when I'm done with it.
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firstTIMER420
Born the son of a sharecropper..



Registered: 05/08/15
Posts: 1,025
Loc: US, maybe?
Last seen: 6 years, 3 days
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Re: Growth in waterlogged jars. Toss or keep? [Re: LocN9ne]
#22484147 - 11/06/15 12:47 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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He clearly stated that he waterlogged his cakes from too much water in the PC. Helping him figure out how much water needs to be in his PC seems like a useful idea to me. Not sure about you, but im trying to help the guy.
Don't do the foil under the lid next time.
Another reason to use the MP tape is since he is just starting, its good not to deviate from teks now, as it will more than likely cause a habit of doing it in the future.
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Edited by firstTIMER420 (11/06/15 12:47 AM)
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LocN9ne
ɢᄋᄋd ԲᄋЯ ᄁᄋȚᅢΙᄁɢ ᄂᄋ₩ᄂΙԲᄐ



Registered: 04/17/15
Posts: 7,076
Loc: to the brain
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Re: Growth in waterlogged jars. Toss or keep? [Re: firstTIMER420]
#22484153 - 11/06/15 12:50 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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OP, were your jars completely submerged in water when you pressure cooked?
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firstTIMER420
Born the son of a sharecropper..



Registered: 05/08/15
Posts: 1,025
Loc: US, maybe?
Last seen: 6 years, 3 days
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Re: Growth in waterlogged jars. Toss or keep? [Re: LocN9ne]
#22484159 - 11/06/15 12:52 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Im going to laugh if he says yes.
no offense op, but that shits funny
-------------------- 1 2 3 4 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22386794[/url] --Anything posted by this account is completely fictitious--
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Psilonoob
Yeastie Boys



Registered: 10/18/15
Posts: 46
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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Re: Growth in waterlogged jars. Toss or keep? [Re: firstTIMER420]
#22484168 - 11/06/15 12:56 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
firstTIMER420 said: He clearly stated that he waterlogged his cakes from too much water in the PC. Helping him figure out how much water needs to be in his PC seems like a useful idea to me. Not sure about you, but im trying to help the guy.
Don't do the foil under the lid next time.
Another reason to use the MP tape is since he is just starting, its good not to deviate from teks now, as it will more than likely cause a habit of doing it in the future.
The PF Teks I used didn't recommend any MP tape, but I could see why it would be useful as it would provide an additional filter in addition to the dry verm layer. I'm thinking about using it for my next batch.
Quote:
OP, were your jars completely submerged in water when you pressure cooked?
No, I had stacked up two jars worth and had the PC filled up to half the bottom jar's height I think. Didn't have a rack to elevate the jars in the PC. Didn't realize how much the water would slosh inside the PC. The top jars were okay, but the bottom ones (the ones in my original post) were waterlogged. Learned from my mistakes and only fill it up to about a half inch of water now.
Edited by Psilonoob (11/06/15 12:58 AM)
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firstTIMER420
Born the son of a sharecropper..



Registered: 05/08/15
Posts: 1,025
Loc: US, maybe?
Last seen: 6 years, 3 days
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Re: Growth in waterlogged jars. Toss or keep? [Re: Psilonoob]
#22484172 - 11/06/15 12:58 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Did you put anything on the bottom of the PC?
-------------------- 1 2 3 4 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22386794[/url] --Anything posted by this account is completely fictitious--
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Psilonoob
Yeastie Boys



Registered: 10/18/15
Posts: 46
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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Re: Growth in waterlogged jars. Toss or keep? [Re: firstTIMER420]
#22484182 - 11/06/15 01:01 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
firstTIMER420 said: Did you put anything on the bottom of the PC?
Nope. Didn't have anything handy at the time of PCing.
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LocN9ne
ɢᄋᄋd ԲᄋЯ ᄁᄋȚᅢΙᄁɢ ᄂᄋ₩ᄂΙԲᄐ



Registered: 04/17/15
Posts: 7,076
Loc: to the brain
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Re: Growth in waterlogged jars. Toss or keep? [Re: Psilonoob]
#22484191 - 11/06/15 01:06 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psilonoob said:
Quote:
firstTIMER420 said: Did you put anything on the bottom of the PC?
Nope. Didn't have anything handy at the time of PCing. 
Wadded up foil...a t-shirt... Some rings from lids... Anything bro...and ive never seen a pf tek that called for micropore tape...with a dry Vern layer it is obsolete...and if you stab it with your needle it becomes redundant.
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Q&A US vs. THEM The more I learn, the less I know.
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firstTIMER420
Born the son of a sharecropper..



Registered: 05/08/15
Posts: 1,025
Loc: US, maybe?
Last seen: 6 years, 3 days
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Re: Growth in waterlogged jars. Toss or keep? [Re: LocN9ne]
#22484197 - 11/06/15 01:08 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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"Ive never seen a PF tek that calls for micropore tape"
I don't know, how about the original one?
-------------------- 1 2 3 4 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22386794[/url] --Anything posted by this account is completely fictitious--
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LocN9ne
ɢᄋᄋd ԲᄋЯ ᄁᄋȚᅢΙᄁɢ ᄂᄋ₩ᄂΙԲᄐ



Registered: 04/17/15
Posts: 7,076
Loc: to the brain
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Re: Growth in waterlogged jars. Toss or keep? [Re: firstTIMER420]
#22484207 - 11/06/15 01:11 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
firstTIMER420 said: "Ive never seen a PF tek that calls for micropore tape"
I don't know, how about the original one? 
Shoot me a link... I bought lets grow mushrooms and I don't remember mp tape... Like how would you inoculate the jars?
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Q&A US vs. THEM The more I learn, the less I know.
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



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Re: Growth in waterlogged jars. Toss or keep? [Re: LocN9ne]
#22484254 - 11/06/15 01:35 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
LocN9ne said:
Quote:
firstTIMER420 said: "Ive never seen a PF tek that calls for micropore tape"
I don't know, how about the original one? 
Shoot me a link... I bought lets grow mushrooms and I don't remember mp tape... Like how would you inoculate the jars?
4 months ago Main post, by the great prophesier of reading PF tek guides:
Quote:
firstTIMER420 said: how long should I PC my PF tek jars(half pint) for?
I would chuck those jars, I'd be quite surprised if you were to get anything useful out of them. Could keep them around if you are either out of spore solution or have more jars to try. Otherwise chuck them before their contents gets messier.
If you are out of spore solution, you could make some BRF agar substitute plates and try to transfer some mycellium to them from your jars in a still air box. Better yet, buy any pressure cooker of craigslist cheap and grab some real agar at the asian market.
As for the micropore tape, I never did PF tek with a verm barrier so I can't comment. I think silicon injection ports and tyvek for GE are the way to go.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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