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Oddnerd
Stranger
Registered: 05/13/09
Posts: 21
Last seen: 8 years, 20 days
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ID Request - LBMs growing in my garden
#22482131 - 11/05/15 05:40 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Location: Just outside Toronto, Canada.
Habitat: The soil in my garden, in a shaded area. Appears to grow where a lot of wood/evergreen debris is present. One mushroom that I removed had mycellium stuck to a small fragment of wood.
Gills: Gills, attached to the stem in an adnexed fashion (I believe). Dark brown, often darker than the cap.
Stem: Tall and thin, ~1cm thick but 2 inches tall. Light beige with grey tone.
Cap: 1-2cm in diameter, medium brown/beige colour, fibrillose texture, conical. Larger ones seem to get lighter and flatter.
Spore print color: Dark Grey/black.
Bruising: None that I observed.
Other information: No strong scent that I can make out. I notice that after leaving the caps out to make a spore print, the gills have become much darker than they were after picking.











Edited by Oddnerd (11/06/15 09:24 AM)
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Oddnerd
Stranger
Registered: 05/13/09
Posts: 21
Last seen: 8 years, 20 days
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Re: ID Request - LBMs growing in my garden [Re: Oddnerd]
#22485178 - 11/06/15 09:47 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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I have been doing some more searching and have found two families - Psathyrella and Panaeolus. I am having a hard time making a specific match, but these look very similar to some of the mushrooms in these families.
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Joust
Mycotographer




Registered: 10/13/11
Posts: 13,392
Loc: WA
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Re: ID Request - LBMs growing in my garden [Re: Oddnerd]
#22485184 - 11/06/15 09:51 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Psathyrella sp
-------------------- ~~~~~~***Psilocybin Mushrooms***~~~~~~ _________A Practical Guide To Psilocybin Mushrooms_________ "Think about the species, not your scale". -NeoSporen "Mr. Joust, I see you don't actually partake in the psilocin, but it looks like it may partake in you!" -Gojira
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The Lightning
Mycology Enthusiast


Registered: 09/06/11
Posts: 3,889
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Re: ID Request - LBMs growing in my garden [Re: Oddnerd]
#22485194 - 11/06/15 09:53 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Oddnerd
Stranger
Registered: 05/13/09
Posts: 21
Last seen: 8 years, 20 days
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Re: ID Request - LBMs growing in my garden [Re: The Lightning]
#22485365 - 11/06/15 10:26 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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It definitely bares some resemblance to the picture of Psathyrella genus, but when I look at pictures of the psathyrella, panaeolus, and psilocybe genus I find they are so similar that they almost seem like the same family. I am not an expert at all so I guess part of that is my inexperience.
What features would allow me to distinguish between these families? Its particularly difficulty because individual specimens exhibit a great variety in colouration and colour patterns.
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canid
irregular meat sprocket




Registered: 02/26/02
Posts: 11,912
Loc: looking for zeebras, n. c...
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Re: ID Request - LBMs growing in my garden [Re: Oddnerd]
#22485420 - 11/06/15 10:36 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Psilocybe can be quite easy to separate but some Psathyrella and Panaeolus can require microscopy to differentiate. And again if the old concepts hold up these days, sulfuric acid.
--------------------
Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it. If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.
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Byrain

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 9,664
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Re: ID Request - LBMs growing in my garden [Re: The Lightning]
#22485510 - 11/06/15 10:54 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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The Psathyrella is in the black hole most people want to just label P. gracilis or P. corrugis or.... The whole group really needs to be reworked extensively, who knows how many of those there are in the world....
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canid
irregular meat sprocket




Registered: 02/26/02
Posts: 11,912
Loc: looking for zeebras, n. c...
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Re: ID Request - LBMs growing in my garden [Re: Byrain]
#22485576 - 11/06/15 11:08 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Indeed. For the record I mean merely to differentiate between the two genera. Identification to species within either genus can be a hairy mess I don't have it in my to attempt in earnest beyond the easy species. Nothing to be proud of but there it is. Panaeolus at least has the benefit of far fewer [known] species.
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Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it. If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.
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The Lightning
Mycology Enthusiast


Registered: 09/06/11
Posts: 3,889
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Re: ID Request - LBMs growing in my garden [Re: canid]
#22485681 - 11/06/15 11:29 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
It definitely bares some resemblance to the picture of Psathyrella genus, but when I look at pictures of the psathyrella, panaeolus, and psilocybe genus I find they are so similar that they almost seem like the same family.
Every year to my memory there are collections mistaken for Psathyrella, Panaeolus, and Psilocybe species - BUT - they are generally easy to tell apart. Some general tips: Psathyrella species tend to have fragile stems. Panaeolus tend to be tougher, are found on dung, and have black spore prints. Psilocybe are diversely found on both wood and dung, and generally have a purple-brown to brown to purple range of spore prints - sometimes bruising blue after being pinched.
If you can visually compare beauty (aesthetics) between genera, Psilocybe remain the most photogenic and complimentary genus on this planet. While some collections are easy to misidentify, Psilocybe collections generally scream Psilocybe. There's a bit of prejudice in saying that, but who will argue with it?
Quote:
What features would allow me to distinguish between these families?
I think you mentioned the term genus earlier. Psathyrella, Panaeolus, and Psilocybe represent the genus concept (which is a realistic term when compared with The Species Concept). Each of these three genera (Psathyrella, Panaeolus, and Psilocybe) are currently placed in the order Agaricales, and Agaricales has the following Families. Psilocybe is in the Strophariaceae family. Panaeolus and Psaythyrella are currently in the Psathyrellaceae family, to my knowledge.
That's a mouthful, and gives all us of some words to look into. Time and visiting each species often will ultimately give way to confidence, along with learning and teaching one another simultaneously.
Quote:
What features would allow me to distinguish between these families? (PART TWO)
We can identify mushroom collections by using detailed macroscopic observation, microscopic observation, DNA sequencing, chemosystematics, and other means. DNA analysis along with these other methods is the best key we have.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
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Re: ID Request - LBMs growing in my garden [Re: The Lightning]
#22486077 - 11/06/15 01:07 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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The Lightning
Mycology Enthusiast


Registered: 09/06/11
Posts: 3,889
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:
The Lightning said: Compare to Psathyrella longipes
http://www.mykoweb.com/CAF/species/Psathyrella_longipes.html
That is a much larger species, this looks more like http://www.mykoweb.com/CAF/species/Psathyrella_corrugis.html
I'm not thoroughly convinced, but I concede based on your experience and talents.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,276
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Re: ID Request - LBMs growing in my garden [Re: The Lightning]
#22488908 - 11/06/15 11:58 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Lightning said: I'm not thoroughly convinced, but I concede based on your experience and talents.
P. longipes is one of the largest Psathyrella species we have in the west. These are much smaller.
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AstaCrazyBull
Tatored



Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 780
Loc: What's it Tahuya?
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I really like the passion in TI dialogs. Thx Odd!
-------------------- The Great Spirit gave me permission to use all things that bear seed for my use. I personally choose non-toxic organic compounds and a couple fermentables.
 Cyan time lapse youtube link. https://youtube.com/watch?v=gtgr2SGHxog
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