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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA
Last seen: 6 hours, 59 minutes
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Bags! Bags! Bags?
#22481256 - 11/05/15 01:53 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'd appreciate your tips and tricks for grain spawn bag work. I do fine with various plastic and glass containers but I've never gotten grain bags to work. I'm confident the 1 and 3 lb grain bags (w/ injection port and filter) are clean (from reputable vendors) and the MS syringes are from top notch vendors. Bags stall on me.
1) After inoc with MS syringe, do you knead or gently mix? One inoc point seems like a limiting time factor. Seems spreading the spores around a bit would really help colonization. I can't imagine a downside. Please educate me!
2) During colonization, when do you knead or mix gently? I was warned by a reputable bag vendor to not knead until 70% colonization or else the bag might stall. That puzzles me. (Although I generally shake jars at 20-30% colonization, I've shaken at many time-points without growth ever stalling.)
3) Since a MS syringe usually has bacterial contaminates, does using a syringe sometimes result in the bacteria taking over? In grain jars I always use an agar wedge or an LC. Could using a syringe be part of the cause of my bag failures? 4) One bag vendor insists, "... do not inflate the bag, this may only introduce contaminates into the bag." That seems strange. Do you inflate your bags?
Thanks folks
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
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Loc: Daid
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Bags are awesome!....for g2g. They are ok for a2g and lc. They suck for ms syringe, as do jars.
You need to g2g from a colonized jar. MS syringe in a bag (because it's so much grain) will almost always stall out due to bacteria.
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DaveyJones6911
Nonconformist


Registered: 09/08/15
Posts: 690
Loc: EU
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: azur]
#22481576 - 11/05/15 03:31 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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here's a hair brain THC induced idea off the madbroscience shelf:
what about making a little pf mix ball in like a teabag bag, and including it in the bag to provide a 'spawnpoint' where you can inject the spores?
-------------------- Creativity is a dangerous thing in the eyes of those who don't have any.
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
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How about cows cows cows instead of bagsx3
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Psilosoulful

Registered: 09/05/14
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: azur]
#22481829 - 11/05/15 04:35 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
azur said: How about cows cows cows instead of bagsx3
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mushpunx
Fungus Punk



Registered: 04/20/14
Posts: 13,394
Last seen: 11 days, 10 hours
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said: I'd appreciate your tips and tricks for grain spawn bag work. I do fine with various plastic and glass containers but I've never gotten grain bags to work. I'm confident the 1 and 3 lb grain bags (w/ injection port and filter) are clean (from reputable vendors) and the MS syringes are from top notch vendors. Bags stall on me.
1) After inoc with MS syringe, do you knead or gently mix? One inoc point seems like a limiting time factor. Seems spreading the spores around a bit would really help colonization. I can't imagine a downside. Please educate me!
2) During colonization, when do you knead or mix gently? I was warned by a reputable bag vendor to not knead until 70% colonization or else the bag might stall. That puzzles me. (Although I generally shake jars at 20-30% colonization, I've shaken at many time-points without growth ever stalling.)
3) Since a MS syringe usually has bacterial contaminates, does using a syringe sometimes result in the bacteria taking over? In grain jars I always use an agar wedge or an LC. Could using a syringe be part of the cause of my bag failures? 4) One bag vendor insists, "... do not inflate the bag, this may only introduce contaminates into the bag." That seems strange. Do you inflate your bags?
Thanks folks
Yea all and any grain spawn needs to start with a clean culture on agar. Syringe could definitely be part of your bag failures. BRF is a bit forgiving and can handle most vendor syringes. Syringes are rarely clean enough for grain.
Colonize master grain jars started with agar and G2G into spawn bag. You don't shake, it usually is more of a knead, but honestly G2G in bags is so fast Ive never had to. I just mix it up after inoculation.
I inflate my bags. You can only inflate the bag to give a nice plenum if you have a flowhood, in SAB you have to make due without plenum.
I go agar-quart (or pint) master - 4 qt spawn bag to end up w 5 quart bags.
--------------------
 Amateur Mycologists United AMU Q&A
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



Registered: 12/08/14
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If I were to do bags I think I would want to use slurry. The inoculation power is absurd.
Then again, slurry is all I ever want to use now, or a2g for testing shit.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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mushpunx
Fungus Punk



Registered: 04/20/14
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I dunno man a 1qt jar into a 4qt bag will fully colonize in around 5 days for me
--------------------
 Amateur Mycologists United AMU Q&A
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



Registered: 12/08/14
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: mushpunx]
#22482176 - 11/05/15 05:50 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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@ 1 Tbsp/qt
1 cup grass seed + 2 cups water = 3 cups = 48 Tbsp
So maybe 48 qt's from a pint of grass seed.
I like that I can just chuck an agar wedge into a cup of seed, then make pretty much as much spawn as I want with it. I also find pouring slurry to be much easier to do cleanly than pouring grain. Need to build dat tribal container to make things easier for myself. The cornmeal LI sounds really good too, but so far it's looking like it colonizes considerably slower than grain for me. Perhaps adjustments are needed.
Ground grain is probably a bit riskier if you don't PC the shit out of it though.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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tahoe
Noob Slayer



Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 6,274
Loc: N38.93829W119.98108
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: azur]
#22482181 - 11/05/15 05:52 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
azur said:

Bags are awesome!....for g2g. They are ok for a2g and lc. They suck for ms syringe, as do jars.
You need to g2g from a colonized jar. MS syringe in a bag (because it's so much grain) will almost always stall out due to bacteria.
I grew all summer long using the same three spore syringes. I use 1/4th-1/2th cc max per bag. I am using the medium sized bags with 10-12 heaping cups of grain in each one. I had less than 1% contams, 0 bags stall. According to my experience I would call your statement false.
For shits and giggles I cooked up two xl spawn bags. I used less than a half cc on each bag. I think it's been a month but they both are fully colonized now.
 I would imagine that more multi spore would be better. Faster colonization is almost always preferred.
-------------------- Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.
My Legacy https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987 Teh=The I need to proofread
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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA
Last seen: 6 hours, 59 minutes
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Great info people. For a long time I used agar and agar > LC and it seems I forgot how super-critical of a step agar is (I've smoked a lot of weed in my life - that's my excuse . . . Don't tase me bro!).
Considering syringes are rarely clean enough for grain, I am surprised the whole spawn bag / injector port / spore syringe method is so strongly promoted by some vendors.
I love the "cows cows cows" song! ~ ~ ~ hilarious
The "teabag injection spawn point" concept is a unique and interesting idea.
I agree, G2G is the holy grail. I used to do it, and it blew my mind. I currently don't have my usual hobby equipment set up, so I'm trying using more primitive bare bones approaches.
I appreciate the feed back.
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: tahoe]
#22482306 - 11/05/15 06:18 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well tahoe, it speaks volumes at the level you have not advanced over the years. Sometimes you get lucky i guess. PS, stop polluting our earth with your throw away tubs
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: azur]
#22482631 - 11/05/15 07:13 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
tahoe said: I would imagine that more multi spore would be better. Faster colonization is almost always preferred.
Are you being serious?
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 3,038
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: Inocuole]
#22483273 - 11/05/15 09:27 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm pretty sure he means you'd see faster colonization if you used more than 1/2cc on a 4qt spawn bag, not that introducing more strains would be faster.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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We're ignoring the spore syringe contamination factor during this I guess?
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: Inocuole]
#22483327 - 11/05/15 09:41 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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If you spore print from an invitro grow in an airbox it should be pretty clean. Dunno if vendors are that careful.
I wouldn't want to try a spawnbag with MS, unless I was in a weird living situation, in which case I might order a presterilized bag and try shooting it up. Knocking up a few pints/qts or SHIP pf cakes then g2ging sounds like a much better idea if agar isn't available.
--------------------
I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Quote:
Machiavelliavore said: If you spore print from an invitro grow in an airbox it should be pretty clean. Dunno if vendors are that careful.
I agree, and it seems like you see the issue with the outward statement itself.
All my spores are taken from invitro fruits but who knows about anybody else? Most likely someone reading here is using a purchased syringe.
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: Inocuole]
#22483444 - 11/05/15 10:00 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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Buck513

Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 5,682
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: taGyo]
#22484038 - 11/06/15 12:03 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Throw away tubs
-------------------- Fail to plan and you plan to fail. Enter the Ban Lottery
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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: Buck513]
#22484103 - 11/06/15 12:27 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Buck513 said: Throw away tubs 
we've all done it
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Not me. I have 10 year old tubs that are stained light green from sever contams. Other tubs that have cracks running from the bottom hole to the corner. Any tub that I've retired is either being used for storage in my house or was so broken beyond belief that it couldn't be used for anything
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: Inocuole]
#22484117 - 11/06/15 12:35 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: We're ignoring the spore syringe contamination factor during this I guess?
There is always a contam factor no matter what methods your using, a syringe may have a higher failure rate but that rate is still pretty low just test your syringe first.
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: cronicr]
#22484123 - 11/06/15 12:39 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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No. Bullshit cron. Don't cover homeboy. You did it in another thread a bit ago. You know damn well if i, or anyone else said the things he says the way he says them, you'd jump on our shit. You staying up late just to be the devil's advocate?
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: azur]
#22484128 - 11/06/15 12:40 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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what the fuck are you talking about lol? go to bed lol, i'm saying if your going to use a syringe test the fucking thing
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: cronicr]
#22484131 - 11/06/15 12:41 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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who's homeboy?
--------------------
  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: cronicr]
#22484136 - 11/06/15 12:43 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Uh huh
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: azur]
#22484156 - 11/06/15 12:51 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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you got a problem with the imformation presented? speak up lol
--------------------
  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: cronicr]
#22484176 - 11/06/15 01:00 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
tahoe said:
Quote:
azur said:

Bags are awesome!....for g2g. They are ok for a2g and lc. They suck for ms syringe, as do jars.
You need to g2g from a colonized jar. MS syringe in a bag (because it's so much grain) will almost always stall out due to bacteria.
I grew all summer long using the same three spore syringes. I use 1/4th-1/2th cc max per bag. I am using the medium sized bags with 10-12 heaping cups of grain in each one. I had less than 1% contams, 0 bags stall. According to my experience I would call your statement false.
For shits and giggles I cooked up two xl spawn bags. I used less than a half cc on each bag. I think it's been a month but they both are fully colonized now.
 I would imagine that more multi spore would be better. Faster colonization is almost always preferred.
Yea. I got a problem. Firstly, this post is full of lies. Anytime anyone says i had less than blah blah blah percent contam rate, they're talking out their ass. If he was actually tracking data to know what exact percent rate he lost to contams, he wouldn't be spewing out the nonsense i see all over the boards. Secondly, not one mother fucker on this site experienced less than one percent contam rate this summer. Not one. Thirdly, more spore solution is not what you do.
Tahoe, this is nothing personally against you. I kinda think you're alright. You're just a bullshitter. And that's cool by me. Just play it how it is.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: azur]
#22484186 - 11/06/15 01:02 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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ok i'm talking "basics" here, you're problem is with tahoes statement i'm just simply stating using a syringe to inoculate is fine..slower and riskier but can indeed be done with 100% success
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: cronicr]
#22484204 - 11/06/15 01:10 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Slower in riskier doesn't sound like fine to me. Can it be done? Yea. Well i can walk across the street with my eyes closed to. Point is, op asked for knowledgeable opinions. Not the bare basics.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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He asked for advise, he already has ordered a syringe and the grains so i'm not goiing to go out of my way and assume he can make li or lc or even agar, instead i'll address his question
Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said: I'd appreciate your tips and tricks for grain spawn bag work. I do fine with various plastic and glass containers but I've never gotten grain bags to work. I'm confident the 1 and 3 lb grain bags (w/ injection port and filter) are clean (from reputable vendors) and the MS syringes are from top notch vendors. Bags stall on me.
1) After inoc with MS syringe, do you knead or gently mix? One inoc point seems like a limiting time factor. Seems spreading the spores around a bit would really help colonization. I can't imagine a downside. Please educate me!
2) During colonization, when do you knead or mix gently? I was warned by a reputable bag vendor to not knead until 70% colonization or else the bag might stall. That puzzles me. (Although I generally shake jars at 20-30% colonization, I've shaken at many time-points without growth ever stalling.)
3) Since a MS syringe usually has bacterial contaminates, does using a syringe sometimes result in the bacteria taking over? In grain jars I always use an agar wedge or an LC. Could using a syringe be part of the cause of my bag failures? 4) One bag vendor insists, "... do not inflate the bag, this may only introduce contaminates into the bag." That seems strange. Do you inflate your bags?
Thanks folks
1) i would not knead it at all, will be easier to spot contams easier for spores to find eachother and easier to judge colonization rate which leads to ... 2)with bags about that size i waited till about 50% 3)Ms syringes may or may not have contams most vendors go through a good enough process to give there syringes a shot but as said above i'd test it anyway...shit happens.
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: cronicr]
#22484237 - 11/06/15 01:24 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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How would i do it? i wouldn't order shit..i would eliminate all the factors a spore syringe bring to the table and use a isolated strain in a lc to inoculate the bags but since the op has it ..it's money gone use it and move on
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



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Posts: 3,038
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: azur]
#22484240 - 11/06/15 01:25 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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IME syringe to grains is a pretty decent way to go. Hell, even Frank's 12 steps, for which most of shroomery is on bent knee mouth wide open, instructs you to do it. With a jar sniff/observation and use mini monos/trays to limit the chances of colossal failures, it's certainly going to shit on PFtek for time investment and money.
The sheer quantity of grain in a spawn bag and colonization time for a bag would give, especially bacteria, a lot of time alone before getting statistically smothered by the faster growing mycellium compared to a quart jar. It'll also turn what might be a 1/4 failure rate for jars into a 1/1 failure rate, assuming you use say 2cc for a bag instead of .5cc for each of four jars.
At least that's my thought on it. Wouldn't hesitate to try if those were the tools I was forced to work with though.
--------------------
I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA
Last seen: 6 hours, 59 minutes
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I began this hobby in the mid 90's, with the PF tek, eventually settling with grass seed and sometimes whole grain brown rice as my spawn of choice. Taz, Australians, and B+ are my all time faves.
I don't have my usual set-up now, due to a divorce and loss of my garage work-space, and have been trying vendor bags and syringes to see if I can get them to work, without success.
One bag vendor warns bags are not for beginners. But bags are often sold with injection ports and the instructions to knock them up with spore syringes, and you are good-to-go.
Nothing against this vendor, but here's an example...
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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yeah there pretty standard for vendors, my brother use to like them
--------------------
  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA
Last seen: 6 hours, 59 minutes
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: cronicr]
#22484317 - 11/06/15 02:29 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: There is always a contam factor no matter what methods your using, a syringe may have a higher failure rate but that rate is still pretty low just test your syringe first.
I view contamination arising from poor sterile technique as much different than contamination coming from the spore solution. If syringe inocs sometimes or often fail because they are contaminated with bacteria, that's important info (especially for newbs), so people don't chase their tail trying to figure out the problem . . . and reaching outlandishly wrong conclusions.
At this point, I think syringes shouldn't be used to inoc grain directly. If syringes need to be tested before using on grain, we might as well just use a wedge or shake a wedge in sterile water and use it as an LC. I think I'll bail on bags.
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Using syringes on grain is fine if that's what you're into. All I'm saying is that injecting more solution, to make it colonize faster, is an effort that defeats itself.
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mushpunx
Fungus Punk



Registered: 04/20/14
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: Inocuole]
#22484509 - 11/06/15 05:41 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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 No need to bail on bags man they rule! But not small bags like I think you have. I would use jars over those. Big spawn bags are great. I use quart or pint master jars to inoculate 4 qt bags. Each 5qt bag is plenty spawn to use per 1 tub each.
OP already says he uses agar wedge to inoculate jars.
So what I would tell him to do is knock up master jars with agar and inoculate bags via G2G. But since I think they might be those small vendor bags with the injection port, might as well use it.
Take a clean agar culture and sterilized syringe full of water. Flame needle, squirt water onto plate. Agitate myc, pull myc water into syringe. Then you have a clean LI to inject thru the ports.
Alternatively you could cut the seal, drop agar wedge and re seal but I like the LI idea.
--------------------
 Amateur Mycologists United AMU Q&A
Edited by mushpunx (11/06/15 05:43 AM)
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professorFATTYCAP
Training 4 the mycothalon



Registered: 04/08/14
Posts: 750
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: azur]
#22485020 - 11/06/15 09:12 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
azur said: Well tahoe, it speaks volumes at the level you have not advanced over the years. Sometimes you get lucky i guess. PS, stop polluting our earth with your throw away tubs
Ha ha hhha@a
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tahoe
Noob Slayer



Registered: 11/26/03
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: azur]
#22486044 - 11/06/15 12:54 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
azur said: Well tahoe, it speaks volumes at the level you have not advanced over the years. Sometimes you get lucky i guess.
What are you talking about? Are you talking about me choosing to use spore syringes?
-------------------- Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.
My Legacy https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987 Teh=The I need to proofread
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tahoe
Noob Slayer



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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: azur]
#22486092 - 11/06/15 01:12 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
azur said:
Quote:
tahoe said:
Quote:
azur said:

Bags are awesome!....for g2g. They are ok for a2g and lc. They suck for ms syringe, as do jars.
You need to g2g from a colonized jar. MS syringe in a bag (because it's so much grain) will almost always stall out due to bacteria.
I grew all summer long using the same three spore syringes. I use 1/4th-1/2th cc max per bag. I am using the medium sized bags with 10-12 heaping cups of grain in each one. I had less than 1% contams, 0 bags stall. According to my experience I would call your statement false.
For shits and giggles I cooked up two xl spawn bags. I used less than a half cc on each bag. I think it's been a month but they both are fully colonized now.
 I would imagine that more multi spore would be better. Faster colonization is almost always preferred.
Yea. I got a problem. Firstly, this post is full of lies. Anytime anyone says i had less than blah blah blah percent contam rate, they're talking out their ass. If he was actually tracking data to know what exact percent rate he lost to contams, he wouldn't be spewing out the nonsense i see all over the boards. Secondly, not one mother fucker on this site experienced less than one percent contam rate this summer. Not one. Thirdly, more spore solution is not what you do.
Tahoe, this is nothing personally against you. I kinda think you're alright. You're just a bullshitter. And that's cool by me. Just play it how it is.
I just noticed this post. Explain full of lies or even exaggeration. Sure I have had contams this summer, hell I just trashed a bag two days ago. But it wasn't related to these three spore syringes. You want to know something else. I never once flammed a needle nor inoculated a bag in a box or a hood. I even refilled a syringe with sterile water once it got down to 2cc's.
Anyways please explain FULL OF LIES. And you are right, I did not keep data on my contams. Just going off of memory
-------------------- Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.
My Legacy https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987 Teh=The I need to proofread
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: tahoe]
#22486207 - 11/06/15 01:42 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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mushpunx
Fungus Punk



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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: cronicr]
#22486267 - 11/06/15 01:56 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Really dude? Never flamed a syringe? I know you like to sterilize your bags pre sealed and inoculate thru the side with LI or whatever. I can see that done in open air just fine
But I would think an un flamed needle would be bad!
--------------------
 Amateur Mycologists United AMU Q&A
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taGyo
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: mushpunx]
#22486274 - 11/06/15 01:57 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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You don't flame your needles Tahoe...?
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: taGyo]
#22486288 - 11/06/15 02:01 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Adden

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 39,201
Loc:
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: taGyo]
#22486408 - 11/06/15 02:27 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
taGyo said: You don't flame your needles Tahoe...?
Flaming needles once and using 70% iso in between jars or bags will prevent cross contamination. I recall someone mentioning it's better because certain contams need that little bit of water to "come out and die" on sterilization. Can anyone confirm?
If I was ever to grow I would imagine that I'd do it, simply because I'd likely run into a situation of 10 fine jars and 2 ruined ones.
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azur
God of Fuck



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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: tahoe]
#22486462 - 11/06/15 02:36 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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I already explained the full of lies part in that post. Less than 1 percent means you lost 1 out of 101 bags. Did you use that many bags? Fwiw, I rarely flame anything. I pc em instead
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: azur]
#22486509 - 11/06/15 02:47 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Dys flaming between each jar is better as heat sterilizes both inside and outside the needle
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: Adden]
#22486518 - 11/06/15 02:49 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dys said:
Quote:
taGyo said: You don't flame your needles Tahoe...?
Flaming needles once and using 70% iso in between jars or bags will prevent cross contamination. I recall someone mentioning it's better because certain contams need that little bit of water to "come out and die" on sterilization. Can anyone confirm?
If I was ever to grow I would imagine that I'd do it, simply because I'd likely run into a situation of 10 fine jars and 2 ruined ones.
Well you're right about flaming but not about alcohol:
Quote:
taGyo said: Alochol SANITIZES, flames STERILIZE. Sterilization means NO germs, mold can survive sanitation. Don't wipe your needle with alcohol after flame sterilization:
Quote:
swatt_haze said: wiping a needle with alcohol after flame sterilizing is like rubbing shit on your hands after you washed them and eating a burger.
Flame until the needle is red hot. It will turn black first (because you're using a lighter), then slowly turn red.
Flame sterilize between each JAR, not each inoculation hole. .25 cc a hole for 1cc total each BRF jar. Grains is 1CC as well.
After flame sterilization gently push down on the plunger. It'll shoot out steam until a drop of liquid comes out. Let the drop gently fall and then push your needle through the hole, making sure to angle it TOWARDS THE GLASS. I look down and check to make sure my needle is against the glass sometimes but you can feel it.
If you push and it feels difficult and nothing's coming out gently pull your needle upward while shooting. BE CAREFUL, this will immediately loosen up your needle and if you're pushing too hard you'll shoot way too many CCs into a hole.
I actually touched an iso soaked glove to agar and got contams:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20969519
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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Adden

Registered: 06/04/03
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: taGyo]
#22486552 - 11/06/15 02:56 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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I just checked and RR said 70%, and not flame every needle.
If you guys say differently though I'll go with that. It's how I'd always do it before, and just stumbled across that information the other day.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: Adden]
#22486585 - 11/06/15 03:01 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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If your doing cakes flaming between each jar is almost a must, shit tends to get in the needle with grains i haven't seen any huge issues but i dont' touch anything with the syringe when i do grains..i line them up and inoc fro a few inches back(a syringe could probably shoot 20 feet lol)
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Adden

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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: cronicr]
#22486589 - 11/06/15 03:02 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Good to know if I ever grow anything besides edibles again! Thank you.
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: Adden]
#22486692 - 11/06/15 03:23 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dys said: I just checked and RR said 70%, and not flame every needle.
If you guys say differently though I'll go with that. It's how I'd always do it before, and just stumbled across that information the other day.
Weird, I've never seen RR use alcohol 
He doesn't do it in the Lets Grow Mushrooms video
http://www.mushroomvideos.com/BRF-Pf-Tek
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: taGyo]
#22486699 - 11/06/15 03:24 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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He doesnt' but advises on it all the time(or use to)
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: cronicr]
#22486708 - 11/06/15 03:26 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Weird,
I'd never do it but that man has grown more mushrooms then I've seen
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: mushpunx]
#22488015 - 11/06/15 08:00 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushpunx said:
Take a clean agar culture and sterilized syringe full of water. Flame needle, squirt water onto plate. Agitate myc, pull myc water into syringe. Then you have a clean LI to inject thru the ports.
Good tip. I'm not quite set up to do regular Karo LC, but I can swing this.
How do you agitate the water after squirting it onto the plate? Do you stir with the tip of the needle or swirl the plate?
I assume you can use the plate multiple times, over the course of weeks or even a couple of months, as the mycelium will just grow back . . . cool
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Adden

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 39,201
Loc:
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Agitate your liquid culture* then draw that into your syringe.
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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: Adden]
#22489015 - 11/07/15 01:01 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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(Am familiar with general LC handling, but haven't tried this little trick of making an LC from a plate directly with a syringe. Gonna try this soon!)
One final thought to share, and I'll let this thread drift into the ether . . .
This is a poor man's version of making an aqueous agar slurry with a blender (one of those fancy metal ones the pros use). I used to do this years ago and it worked really well.
I'd PC a kitchen sieve,
and a spoon, water, and a jar (that would hold the sieve on top)
In a hood I'd pop the agar disc out of a plate, throw it in the sieve, and with the spoon mash it through the screen. Then would wash the material into the jar below, and distribute to grass seed or grain.
Each plate made a slurry of a few hundred tiny 1/16 inch cubes
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mushpunx
Fungus Punk



Registered: 04/20/14
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:
mushpunx said:
Take a clean agar culture and sterilized syringe full of water. Flame needle, squirt water onto plate. Agitate myc, pull myc water into syringe. Then you have a clean LI to inject thru the ports.
Good tip. I'm not quite set up to do regular Karo LC, but I can swing this.
How do you agitate the water after squirting it onto the plate? Do you stir with the tip of the needle or swirl the plate?
I assume you can use the plate multiple times, over the course of weeks or even a couple of months, as the mycelium will just grow back . . . cool
You just kinda swish the needle tip over the myc. Its pretty soft and fluffy. I would only use the plate once for this. Its not a big deal as you can just transfer a wedge to a new blank plate right before hand, that will grow out in a few days.
You don't want to get into LC. Not yet. Wait till you are more experienced, and even then it needs to be inoculated with a clean culture on agar.
--------------------
 Amateur Mycologists United AMU Q&A
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Buck513

Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 5,682
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said: (Am familiar with general LC handling, but haven't tried this little trick of making an LC from a plate directly with a syringe. Gonna try this soon!)
One final thought to share, and I'll let this thread drift into the ether . . .
This is a poor man's version of making an aqueous agar slurry with a blender (one of those fancy metal ones the pros use). I used to do this years ago and it worked really well.
I'd PC a kitchen sieve,
and a spoon, water, and a jar (that would hold the sieve on top)
In a hood I'd pop the agar disc out of a plate, throw it in the sieve, and with the spoon mash it through the screen. Then would wash the material into the jar below, and distribute to grass seed or grain.
Each plate made a slurry of a few hundred tiny 1/16 inch cubes 
I've never heard of that. Mashing agar through a metal screen to increase inoculation points doesn't sound like a good idea to me...
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld


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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: Buck513]
#22489213 - 11/07/15 04:20 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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that sounds time consuming….
"whatever happened to predictability? the milk man, the paper boy, the evening TV??"
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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RJ Tubs 202



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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: Buck513]
#22494747 - 11/08/15 08:49 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Buck513 said:
I've never heard of that. Mashing agar through a metal screen to increase inoculation points doesn't sound like a good idea to me...
It's my goofy idea, but works really well. I used this method for several years when I had a job in a tissue culture lab and would inoculate my spawn at work. I had my own 6 foot Baker EdgeGARD flow hood and would cover everything in foil so my coworkers and boss couldn't see what I was working on. It was an easy fast way to knock up a bunch of containers quickly, because I only needed 3 drops of slurry for each container.
I think mycelium is pretty resilient, since the pros use a blender
Edited by RJ Tubs 202 (11/08/15 09:01 AM)
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