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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Not me. I have 10 year old tubs that are stained light green from sever contams. Other tubs that have cracks running from the bottom hole to the corner. Any tub that I've retired is either being used for storage in my house or was so broken beyond belief that it couldn't be used for anything
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: Inocuole]
#22484117 - 11/06/15 12:35 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: We're ignoring the spore syringe contamination factor during this I guess?
There is always a contam factor no matter what methods your using, a syringe may have a higher failure rate but that rate is still pretty low just test your syringe first.
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: cronicr]
#22484123 - 11/06/15 12:39 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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No. Bullshit cron. Don't cover homeboy. You did it in another thread a bit ago. You know damn well if i, or anyone else said the things he says the way he says them, you'd jump on our shit. You staying up late just to be the devil's advocate?
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: azur]
#22484128 - 11/06/15 12:40 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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what the fuck are you talking about lol? go to bed lol, i'm saying if your going to use a syringe test the fucking thing
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: cronicr]
#22484131 - 11/06/15 12:41 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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who's homeboy?
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: cronicr]
#22484136 - 11/06/15 12:43 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Uh huh
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: azur]
#22484156 - 11/06/15 12:51 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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you got a problem with the imformation presented? speak up lol
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: cronicr]
#22484176 - 11/06/15 01:00 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
tahoe said:
Quote:
azur said:

Bags are awesome!....for g2g. They are ok for a2g and lc. They suck for ms syringe, as do jars.
You need to g2g from a colonized jar. MS syringe in a bag (because it's so much grain) will almost always stall out due to bacteria.
I grew all summer long using the same three spore syringes. I use 1/4th-1/2th cc max per bag. I am using the medium sized bags with 10-12 heaping cups of grain in each one. I had less than 1% contams, 0 bags stall. According to my experience I would call your statement false.
For shits and giggles I cooked up two xl spawn bags. I used less than a half cc on each bag. I think it's been a month but they both are fully colonized now.
 I would imagine that more multi spore would be better. Faster colonization is almost always preferred.
Yea. I got a problem. Firstly, this post is full of lies. Anytime anyone says i had less than blah blah blah percent contam rate, they're talking out their ass. If he was actually tracking data to know what exact percent rate he lost to contams, he wouldn't be spewing out the nonsense i see all over the boards. Secondly, not one mother fucker on this site experienced less than one percent contam rate this summer. Not one. Thirdly, more spore solution is not what you do.
Tahoe, this is nothing personally against you. I kinda think you're alright. You're just a bullshitter. And that's cool by me. Just play it how it is.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: azur]
#22484186 - 11/06/15 01:02 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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ok i'm talking "basics" here, you're problem is with tahoes statement i'm just simply stating using a syringe to inoculate is fine..slower and riskier but can indeed be done with 100% success
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: cronicr]
#22484204 - 11/06/15 01:10 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Slower in riskier doesn't sound like fine to me. Can it be done? Yea. Well i can walk across the street with my eyes closed to. Point is, op asked for knowledgeable opinions. Not the bare basics.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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He asked for advise, he already has ordered a syringe and the grains so i'm not goiing to go out of my way and assume he can make li or lc or even agar, instead i'll address his question
Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said: I'd appreciate your tips and tricks for grain spawn bag work. I do fine with various plastic and glass containers but I've never gotten grain bags to work. I'm confident the 1 and 3 lb grain bags (w/ injection port and filter) are clean (from reputable vendors) and the MS syringes are from top notch vendors. Bags stall on me.
1) After inoc with MS syringe, do you knead or gently mix? One inoc point seems like a limiting time factor. Seems spreading the spores around a bit would really help colonization. I can't imagine a downside. Please educate me!
2) During colonization, when do you knead or mix gently? I was warned by a reputable bag vendor to not knead until 70% colonization or else the bag might stall. That puzzles me. (Although I generally shake jars at 20-30% colonization, I've shaken at many time-points without growth ever stalling.)
3) Since a MS syringe usually has bacterial contaminates, does using a syringe sometimes result in the bacteria taking over? In grain jars I always use an agar wedge or an LC. Could using a syringe be part of the cause of my bag failures? 4) One bag vendor insists, "... do not inflate the bag, this may only introduce contaminates into the bag." That seems strange. Do you inflate your bags?
Thanks folks
1) i would not knead it at all, will be easier to spot contams easier for spores to find eachother and easier to judge colonization rate which leads to ... 2)with bags about that size i waited till about 50% 3)Ms syringes may or may not have contams most vendors go through a good enough process to give there syringes a shot but as said above i'd test it anyway...shit happens.
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: cronicr]
#22484237 - 11/06/15 01:24 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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How would i do it? i wouldn't order shit..i would eliminate all the factors a spore syringe bring to the table and use a isolated strain in a lc to inoculate the bags but since the op has it ..it's money gone use it and move on
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 3,038
Loc: The Sporetorn States
Last seen: 3 months, 20 days
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: azur]
#22484240 - 11/06/15 01:25 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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IME syringe to grains is a pretty decent way to go. Hell, even Frank's 12 steps, for which most of shroomery is on bent knee mouth wide open, instructs you to do it. With a jar sniff/observation and use mini monos/trays to limit the chances of colossal failures, it's certainly going to shit on PFtek for time investment and money.
The sheer quantity of grain in a spawn bag and colonization time for a bag would give, especially bacteria, a lot of time alone before getting statistically smothered by the faster growing mycellium compared to a quart jar. It'll also turn what might be a 1/4 failure rate for jars into a 1/1 failure rate, assuming you use say 2cc for a bag instead of .5cc for each of four jars.
At least that's my thought on it. Wouldn't hesitate to try if those were the tools I was forced to work with though.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA
Last seen: 10 hours, 1 minute
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I began this hobby in the mid 90's, with the PF tek, eventually settling with grass seed and sometimes whole grain brown rice as my spawn of choice. Taz, Australians, and B+ are my all time faves.
I don't have my usual set-up now, due to a divorce and loss of my garage work-space, and have been trying vendor bags and syringes to see if I can get them to work, without success.
One bag vendor warns bags are not for beginners. But bags are often sold with injection ports and the instructions to knock them up with spore syringes, and you are good-to-go.
Nothing against this vendor, but here's an example...
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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yeah there pretty standard for vendors, my brother use to like them
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA
Last seen: 10 hours, 1 minute
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: cronicr]
#22484317 - 11/06/15 02:29 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: There is always a contam factor no matter what methods your using, a syringe may have a higher failure rate but that rate is still pretty low just test your syringe first.
I view contamination arising from poor sterile technique as much different than contamination coming from the spore solution. If syringe inocs sometimes or often fail because they are contaminated with bacteria, that's important info (especially for newbs), so people don't chase their tail trying to figure out the problem . . . and reaching outlandishly wrong conclusions.
At this point, I think syringes shouldn't be used to inoc grain directly. If syringes need to be tested before using on grain, we might as well just use a wedge or shake a wedge in sterile water and use it as an LC. I think I'll bail on bags.
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Using syringes on grain is fine if that's what you're into. All I'm saying is that injecting more solution, to make it colonize faster, is an effort that defeats itself.
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mushpunx
Fungus Punk



Registered: 04/20/14
Posts: 13,394
Last seen: 11 days, 13 hours
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: Inocuole]
#22484509 - 11/06/15 05:41 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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 No need to bail on bags man they rule! But not small bags like I think you have. I would use jars over those. Big spawn bags are great. I use quart or pint master jars to inoculate 4 qt bags. Each 5qt bag is plenty spawn to use per 1 tub each.
OP already says he uses agar wedge to inoculate jars.
So what I would tell him to do is knock up master jars with agar and inoculate bags via G2G. But since I think they might be those small vendor bags with the injection port, might as well use it.
Take a clean agar culture and sterilized syringe full of water. Flame needle, squirt water onto plate. Agitate myc, pull myc water into syringe. Then you have a clean LI to inject thru the ports.
Alternatively you could cut the seal, drop agar wedge and re seal but I like the LI idea.
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 Amateur Mycologists United AMU Q&A
Edited by mushpunx (11/06/15 05:43 AM)
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professorFATTYCAP
Training 4 the mycothalon



Registered: 04/08/14
Posts: 750
Last seen: 2 months, 17 days
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: azur]
#22485020 - 11/06/15 09:12 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
azur said: Well tahoe, it speaks volumes at the level you have not advanced over the years. Sometimes you get lucky i guess. PS, stop polluting our earth with your throw away tubs
Ha ha hhha@a
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tahoe
Noob Slayer



Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 6,274
Loc: N38.93829W119.98108
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: azur]
#22486044 - 11/06/15 12:54 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
azur said: Well tahoe, it speaks volumes at the level you have not advanced over the years. Sometimes you get lucky i guess.
What are you talking about? Are you talking about me choosing to use spore syringes?
-------------------- Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.
My Legacy https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987 Teh=The I need to proofread
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