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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA
Last seen: 7 hours, 27 minutes
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Bags! Bags! Bags?
#22481256 - 11/05/15 01:53 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'd appreciate your tips and tricks for grain spawn bag work. I do fine with various plastic and glass containers but I've never gotten grain bags to work. I'm confident the 1 and 3 lb grain bags (w/ injection port and filter) are clean (from reputable vendors) and the MS syringes are from top notch vendors. Bags stall on me.
1) After inoc with MS syringe, do you knead or gently mix? One inoc point seems like a limiting time factor. Seems spreading the spores around a bit would really help colonization. I can't imagine a downside. Please educate me!
2) During colonization, when do you knead or mix gently? I was warned by a reputable bag vendor to not knead until 70% colonization or else the bag might stall. That puzzles me. (Although I generally shake jars at 20-30% colonization, I've shaken at many time-points without growth ever stalling.)
3) Since a MS syringe usually has bacterial contaminates, does using a syringe sometimes result in the bacteria taking over? In grain jars I always use an agar wedge or an LC. Could using a syringe be part of the cause of my bag failures? 4) One bag vendor insists, "... do not inflate the bag, this may only introduce contaminates into the bag." That seems strange. Do you inflate your bags?
Thanks folks
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Bags are awesome!....for g2g. They are ok for a2g and lc. They suck for ms syringe, as do jars.
You need to g2g from a colonized jar. MS syringe in a bag (because it's so much grain) will almost always stall out due to bacteria.
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DaveyJones6911
Nonconformist


Registered: 09/08/15
Posts: 690
Loc: EU
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: azur]
#22481576 - 11/05/15 03:31 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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here's a hair brain THC induced idea off the madbroscience shelf:
what about making a little pf mix ball in like a teabag bag, and including it in the bag to provide a 'spawnpoint' where you can inject the spores?
-------------------- Creativity is a dangerous thing in the eyes of those who don't have any.
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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How about cows cows cows instead of bagsx3
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Psilosoulful

Registered: 09/05/14
Posts: 7,205
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: azur]
#22481829 - 11/05/15 04:35 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
azur said: How about cows cows cows instead of bagsx3
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mushpunx
Fungus Punk



Registered: 04/20/14
Posts: 13,394
Last seen: 11 days, 10 hours
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said: I'd appreciate your tips and tricks for grain spawn bag work. I do fine with various plastic and glass containers but I've never gotten grain bags to work. I'm confident the 1 and 3 lb grain bags (w/ injection port and filter) are clean (from reputable vendors) and the MS syringes are from top notch vendors. Bags stall on me.
1) After inoc with MS syringe, do you knead or gently mix? One inoc point seems like a limiting time factor. Seems spreading the spores around a bit would really help colonization. I can't imagine a downside. Please educate me!
2) During colonization, when do you knead or mix gently? I was warned by a reputable bag vendor to not knead until 70% colonization or else the bag might stall. That puzzles me. (Although I generally shake jars at 20-30% colonization, I've shaken at many time-points without growth ever stalling.)
3) Since a MS syringe usually has bacterial contaminates, does using a syringe sometimes result in the bacteria taking over? In grain jars I always use an agar wedge or an LC. Could using a syringe be part of the cause of my bag failures? 4) One bag vendor insists, "... do not inflate the bag, this may only introduce contaminates into the bag." That seems strange. Do you inflate your bags?
Thanks folks
Yea all and any grain spawn needs to start with a clean culture on agar. Syringe could definitely be part of your bag failures. BRF is a bit forgiving and can handle most vendor syringes. Syringes are rarely clean enough for grain.
Colonize master grain jars started with agar and G2G into spawn bag. You don't shake, it usually is more of a knead, but honestly G2G in bags is so fast Ive never had to. I just mix it up after inoculation.
I inflate my bags. You can only inflate the bag to give a nice plenum if you have a flowhood, in SAB you have to make due without plenum.
I go agar-quart (or pint) master - 4 qt spawn bag to end up w 5 quart bags.
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 Amateur Mycologists United AMU Q&A
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 3,038
Loc: The Sporetorn States
Last seen: 3 months, 20 days
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If I were to do bags I think I would want to use slurry. The inoculation power is absurd.
Then again, slurry is all I ever want to use now, or a2g for testing shit.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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mushpunx
Fungus Punk



Registered: 04/20/14
Posts: 13,394
Last seen: 11 days, 10 hours
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I dunno man a 1qt jar into a 4qt bag will fully colonize in around 5 days for me
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 Amateur Mycologists United AMU Q&A
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 3,038
Loc: The Sporetorn States
Last seen: 3 months, 20 days
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: mushpunx]
#22482176 - 11/05/15 05:50 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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@ 1 Tbsp/qt
1 cup grass seed + 2 cups water = 3 cups = 48 Tbsp
So maybe 48 qt's from a pint of grass seed.
I like that I can just chuck an agar wedge into a cup of seed, then make pretty much as much spawn as I want with it. I also find pouring slurry to be much easier to do cleanly than pouring grain. Need to build dat tribal container to make things easier for myself. The cornmeal LI sounds really good too, but so far it's looking like it colonizes considerably slower than grain for me. Perhaps adjustments are needed.
Ground grain is probably a bit riskier if you don't PC the shit out of it though.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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tahoe
Noob Slayer



Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 6,274
Loc: N38.93829W119.98108
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: azur]
#22482181 - 11/05/15 05:52 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
azur said:

Bags are awesome!....for g2g. They are ok for a2g and lc. They suck for ms syringe, as do jars.
You need to g2g from a colonized jar. MS syringe in a bag (because it's so much grain) will almost always stall out due to bacteria.
I grew all summer long using the same three spore syringes. I use 1/4th-1/2th cc max per bag. I am using the medium sized bags with 10-12 heaping cups of grain in each one. I had less than 1% contams, 0 bags stall. According to my experience I would call your statement false.
For shits and giggles I cooked up two xl spawn bags. I used less than a half cc on each bag. I think it's been a month but they both are fully colonized now.
 I would imagine that more multi spore would be better. Faster colonization is almost always preferred.
-------------------- Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.
My Legacy https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987 Teh=The I need to proofread
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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA
Last seen: 7 hours, 27 minutes
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Great info people. For a long time I used agar and agar > LC and it seems I forgot how super-critical of a step agar is (I've smoked a lot of weed in my life - that's my excuse . . . Don't tase me bro!).
Considering syringes are rarely clean enough for grain, I am surprised the whole spawn bag / injector port / spore syringe method is so strongly promoted by some vendors.
I love the "cows cows cows" song! ~ ~ ~ hilarious
The "teabag injection spawn point" concept is a unique and interesting idea.
I agree, G2G is the holy grail. I used to do it, and it blew my mind. I currently don't have my usual hobby equipment set up, so I'm trying using more primitive bare bones approaches.
I appreciate the feed back.
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: tahoe]
#22482306 - 11/05/15 06:18 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well tahoe, it speaks volumes at the level you have not advanced over the years. Sometimes you get lucky i guess. PS, stop polluting our earth with your throw away tubs
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: azur]
#22482631 - 11/05/15 07:13 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
tahoe said: I would imagine that more multi spore would be better. Faster colonization is almost always preferred.
Are you being serious?
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 3,038
Loc: The Sporetorn States
Last seen: 3 months, 20 days
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: Inocuole]
#22483273 - 11/05/15 09:27 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm pretty sure he means you'd see faster colonization if you used more than 1/2cc on a 4qt spawn bag, not that introducing more strains would be faster.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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We're ignoring the spore syringe contamination factor during this I guess?
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 3,038
Loc: The Sporetorn States
Last seen: 3 months, 20 days
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: Inocuole]
#22483327 - 11/05/15 09:41 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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If you spore print from an invitro grow in an airbox it should be pretty clean. Dunno if vendors are that careful.
I wouldn't want to try a spawnbag with MS, unless I was in a weird living situation, in which case I might order a presterilized bag and try shooting it up. Knocking up a few pints/qts or SHIP pf cakes then g2ging sounds like a much better idea if agar isn't available.
--------------------
I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Quote:
Machiavelliavore said: If you spore print from an invitro grow in an airbox it should be pretty clean. Dunno if vendors are that careful.
I agree, and it seems like you see the issue with the outward statement itself.
All my spores are taken from invitro fruits but who knows about anybody else? Most likely someone reading here is using a purchased syringe.
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: Inocuole]
#22483444 - 11/05/15 10:00 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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Buck513

Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 5,682
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: taGyo]
#22484038 - 11/06/15 12:03 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Throw away tubs
-------------------- Fail to plan and you plan to fail. Enter the Ban Lottery
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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA
Last seen: 7 hours, 27 minutes
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Re: Bags! Bags! Bags? [Re: Buck513]
#22484103 - 11/06/15 12:27 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Buck513 said: Throw away tubs 
we've all done it
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