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Offlinemorrowasted
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Been seeing a lot of people post this article about the Antarctic ice sheets lately...
    #22480527 - 11/05/15 10:32 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

http://phys.org/news/2015-10-mass-gains-antarctic-ice-sheet.html


Just thought I would clear something up. If you ACTUALLY READ THE ARTICLE, this is what it says:
Quote:


“If the losses of the Antarctic Peninsula and parts of West Antarctica continue to increase at the same rate they’ve been increasing for the last two decades, the losses will catch up with the long-term gain in East Antarctica in 20 or 30 years - I don’t think there will be enough snowfall increase to offset these losses,” said Zwally.





The added ice is from precipitation- snowfall. That doesn't mean ice isn't melting due to warming- it is. Eventually, as the positive feedback cycle between the rising temperature of the sea, the amount of light reflected from the sea versus the amount reflected from the ice, and the amount of ice melting worsens, the ice is almost certain to melt more and more rapidly.


The climate isn't naturally stable. It fluctuates over time at large scales. This isn't conjecture, all you have to do is study geology. For the last 50,000 years the climate has been relatively stable because we have been in the Holocene- the relative intermission from a 2.6 million year long (and counting) ice-age. If we were not in an ice age, the Antarctican and Greenland ice sheets would not exist to nearly the extent that they do, if at all. This has allowed humans the opportunity to migrate throughout the world, instead of just living in regions that were nearer to the equator, and to eventually settle down and learn agriculture.

Life has been almost completely wiped out multiple times in the history of the planet. There have been six major mass extinction events in the history of life on our planet. In the Permian–Triassic extinction, 96% of all marine species and 70% of of all land species were wiped out. The extinction was most likely caused by naturally occurring global warming resulting from a massive release of methane from the sea floors. It took about 30 million years for life to recover from this extinction event.

So it is technically "natural" for Greenland and Antarctica and Alaska and so forth not to have so much ice. But the thing is, it's BAD FOR MOST OF HUMANS FOR IT NOT TO BE THERE. First and foremost, A LOT OF PEOPLE DEPEND ON GLACIERS FOR FRESHWATER. Also, if the global temperature ries even 2 or 3 degrees celsius, which it EVENTUALLY WILL WHEN THE AMOUNT OF PRECIPITATION NO LONGER OFFSETS THE RATE AT WHICH THE ICE IS MELTING, regional changes will vary- the 10 people living in Canada and the Siberian Tundra will like it- but for most people the effect will be overwhelmingly negative.


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: Been seeing a lot of people post this article about the Antarctic ice sheets lately... [Re: morrowasted]
    #22481136 - 11/05/15 01:11 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah. apperently antarctica has more ice than ever...

Nobody seems to truly know why and it will most likely be used in political debates. Because what better way to have an argument about something when both side can take the lack of knowledge and twist it in their favor.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Been seeing a lot of people post this article about the Antarctic ice sheets lately... [Re: Patlal] * 1
    #22481141 - 11/05/15 01:14 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Yeah. apperently antarctica has more ice than ever...

Nobody seems to truly know why and it will most likely be used in political debates. Because what better way to have an argument about something when both side can take the lack of knowledge and twist it in their favor.



Wrong. Antarctica does not have anywhere CLOSE to as much ice as it does when we are NOT in the Holocene period of the ice age. Did you read my post? Though I agreed with the general sentiment of what you said, that politicians abuse the ignorance of the masses to gain their favor.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Been seeing a lot of people post this article about the Antarctic ice sheets lately... [Re: morrowasted]
    #22481928 - 11/05/15 04:51 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
http://phys.org/news/2015-10-mass-gains-antarctic-ice-sheet.html


Just thought I would clear something up. If you ACTUALLY READ THE ARTICLE, this is what it says:
Quote:


“If the losses of the Antarctic Peninsula and parts of West Antarctica continue to increase at the same rate they’ve been increasing for the last two decades, the losses will catch up with the long-term gain in East Antarctica in 20 or 30 years - I don’t think there will be enough snowfall increase to offset these losses,” said Zwally.





The added ice is from precipitation- snowfall. That doesn't mean ice isn't melting due to warming- it is. Eventually, as the positive feedback cycle between the rising temperature of the sea, the amount of light reflected from the sea versus the amount reflected from the ice, and the amount of ice melting worsens, the ice is almost certain to melt more and more rapidly.


The climate isn't naturally stable. It fluctuates over time at large scales. This isn't conjecture, all you have to do is study geology. For the last 50,000 years the climate has been relatively stable because we have been in the Holocene- the relative intermission from a 2.6 million year long (and counting) ice-age. If we were not in an ice age, the Antarctican and Greenland ice sheets would not exist to nearly the extent that they do, if at all. This has allowed humans the opportunity to migrate throughout the world, instead of just living in regions that were nearer to the equator, and to eventually settle down and learn agriculture.

Life has been almost completely wiped out multiple times in the history of the planet. There have been six major mass extinction events in the history of life on our planet. In the Permian–Triassic extinction, 96% of all marine species and 70% of of all land species were wiped out. The extinction was most likely caused by naturally occurring global warming resulting from a massive release of methane from the sea floors. It took about 30 million years for life to recover from this extinction event.

So it is technically "natural" for Greenland and Antarctica and Alaska and so forth not to have so much ice. But the thing is, it's BAD FOR MOST OF HUMANS FOR IT NOT TO BE THERE. First and foremost, A LOT OF PEOPLE DEPEND ON GLACIERS FOR FRESHWATER. Also, if the global temperature ries even 2 or 3 degrees celsius, which it EVENTUALLY WILL WHEN THE AMOUNT OF PRECIPITATION NO LONGER OFFSETS THE RATE AT WHICH THE ICE IS MELTING, regional changes will vary- the 10 people living in Canada and the Siberian Tundra will like it- but for most people the effect will be overwhelmingly negative.




We're in an ice age?


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OfflineBambi
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Re: Been seeing a lot of people post this article about the Antarctic ice sheets lately... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22482144 - 11/05/15 05:44 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

apparently an ice age is basically defined as having a bit of ice at the north and south poles.

so ya, we are in an ice age at the moment, but at a warm period in this ice age (an interglacial period) that is known as the Holocene period. This ice age is something like 11,700 years old, so basically all of modern man has existed in this ice age.

Cool stuff


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Been seeing a lot of people post this article about the Antarctic ice sheets lately... [Re: Bambi]
    #22482158 - 11/05/15 05:47 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Then the phrase has no meaning and it is all relative.  My understanding of what constituted an ice age was mile thick ice over what is now New York.

The climate is in constant flux.  Always has been.


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OfflineBambi
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Re: Been seeing a lot of people post this article about the Antarctic ice sheets lately... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22482175 - 11/05/15 05:50 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

yup, i dont disagree. I was just googling stuff since OP never got back to you and I wanted to share what I found; which is basically that the definition of ice age (at least on wikipedia) is shit and meaningless. Still, kinda cool to think about


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Re: Been seeing a lot of people post this article about the Antarctic ice sheets lately... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22483036 - 11/05/15 08:43 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

morrowasted said:
http://phys.org/news/2015-10-mass-gains-antarctic-ice-sheet.html


Just thought I would clear something up. If you ACTUALLY READ THE ARTICLE, this is what it says:
Quote:


“If the losses of the Antarctic Peninsula and parts of West Antarctica continue to increase at the same rate they’ve been increasing for the last two decades, the losses will catch up with the long-term gain in East Antarctica in 20 or 30 years - I don’t think there will be enough snowfall increase to offset these losses,” said Zwally.





The added ice is from precipitation- snowfall. That doesn't mean ice isn't melting due to warming- it is. Eventually, as the positive feedback cycle between the rising temperature of the sea, the amount of light reflected from the sea versus the amount reflected from the ice, and the amount of ice melting worsens, the ice is almost certain to melt more and more rapidly.


The climate isn't naturally stable. It fluctuates over time at large scales. This isn't conjecture, all you have to do is study geology. For the last 50,000 years the climate has been relatively stable because we have been in the Holocene- the relative intermission from a 2.6 million year long (and counting) ice-age. If we were not in an ice age, the Antarctican and Greenland ice sheets would not exist to nearly the extent that they do, if at all. This has allowed humans the opportunity to migrate throughout the world, instead of just living in regions that were nearer to the equator, and to eventually settle down and learn agriculture.

Life has been almost completely wiped out multiple times in the history of the planet. There have been six major mass extinction events in the history of life on our planet. In the Permian–Triassic extinction, 96% of all marine species and 70% of of all land species were wiped out. The extinction was most likely caused by naturally occurring global warming resulting from a massive release of methane from the sea floors. It took about 30 million years for life to recover from this extinction event.

So it is technically "natural" for Greenland and Antarctica and Alaska and so forth not to have so much ice. But the thing is, it's BAD FOR MOST OF HUMANS FOR IT NOT TO BE THERE. First and foremost, A LOT OF PEOPLE DEPEND ON GLACIERS FOR FRESHWATER. Also, if the global temperature ries even 2 or 3 degrees celsius, which it EVENTUALLY WILL WHEN THE AMOUNT OF PRECIPITATION NO LONGER OFFSETS THE RATE AT WHICH THE ICE IS MELTING, regional changes will vary- the 10 people living in Canada and the Siberian Tundra will like it- but for most people the effect will be overwhelmingly negative.




We're in an ice age?


Yes, we are, but we are in the INTERMISSION period of that ice age.


Quote:

By this definition, we are in an interglacial period—the Holocene—of the ice age that began 2.6 million years ago at the start of the Pleistocene epoch, because the Greenland, Arctic, and Antarctic ice sheets still exist.




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age


The fact that you have hollywood-and-intuition-based misconceptions about what constitutes an ice age does not change the geological facts.

The definition is not "shit and meaningless". The point is that the Earth is TYPICALLY HOTTER than it is now, and that we are artificially propelling the Earth out of the Ice Age in which it would otherwise naturally continue to be, which is BAD FOR MOST HUMANS.

The moment you decide to listen to one side or the other's misrepresentations of the truth is the moment you have stepped away from the science.

Global warming happens all the time, naturally. The Earth is typically warmer than it is right now. That does NOT change the fact that OUR civilization AS IT EXISTS depends upon the continued maintenance of the climactic conditions that gave rise to it, or the fact that we ARE IN FACT CAUSING CHANGING THE CLIMATE SUCH THAT THOSE CLIMACTIC CONDITIONS WILL NOT BE MAINTAINED NEARLY AS LONG AS THEY NATURALLY WOULD.


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OfflineApostle
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Re: Been seeing a lot of people post this article about the Antarctic ice sheets lately... [Re: morrowasted]
    #22483171 - 11/05/15 09:09 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Is there anything we can do about it?


No?

Im guessing , no.


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Re: Been seeing a lot of people post this article about the Antarctic ice sheets lately... [Re: Apostle]
    #22483329 - 11/05/15 09:41 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

the whole idea of climate change is there is more extreme weather, that means hotter summers, colder winters, that means you get huge ice sheets breaking off in the summer, and lots of ice forming in the winter, its really simple

its like those old fashion weight balance scales, you keep going down on each side....until it gets so extreme it just stays down on one side.

the question is which side it stays on, the ice age, or the heat/drought age.


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Re: Been seeing a lot of people post this article about the Antarctic ice sheets lately... [Re: Apostle]
    #22484416 - 11/06/15 04:19 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Apostle said:
Is there anything we can do about it?


No?

Im guessing , no.



:rolleyes: This is the height of lazy modern ignorance right here folks.

How about you stop guessing and start learning.

If you start to overcook some food, is there anything you can do about it?



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Re: Been seeing a lot of people post this article about the Antarctic ice sheets lately... [Re: Apostle]
    #22484540 - 11/06/15 06:06 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Apostle said:
Is there anything we can do about it?


No?

Im guessing , no.




Yes, but it requires effort, and learning, and hard work, and sacrifice.
Shit, I get tired walking to my shed sometimes...


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Re: Been seeing a lot of people post this article about the Antarctic ice sheets lately... [Re: morrowasted]
    #22484579 - 11/06/15 06:33 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
Yeah. apperently antarctica has more ice than ever...

Nobody seems to truly know why and it will most likely be used in political debates. Because what better way to have an argument about something when both side can take the lack of knowledge and twist it in their favor.



Wrong. Antarctica does not have anywhere CLOSE to as much ice as it does when we are NOT in the Holocene period of the ice age. Did you read my post? Though I agreed with the general sentiment of what you said, that politicians abuse the ignorance of the masses to gain their favor.





so you're saying that when we're in a glacial period that there's more ice at the
poles? imagine that, there's more ice when something is colder and less ice when
it's warmer and being that we've been coming out of one of those glacial periods
for the last 15000 years, it stands to reason it would be getting warmer and the
ice would be melting, I'm sure there was a shitload more ice back then than there
is now, hell, there must have been a real shit ton of ice over 20% of the planet
300,000 years ago... can you imagine that, lots of ice and snow during an ice age
and less ice and snow during a warm period.. .crazy aint it


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Been seeing a lot of people post this article about the Antarctic ice sheets lately... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22485799 - 11/06/15 11:54 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

morrowasted said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
Yeah. apperently antarctica has more ice than ever...

Nobody seems to truly know why and it will most likely be used in political debates. Because what better way to have an argument about something when both side can take the lack of knowledge and twist it in their favor.



Wrong. Antarctica does not have anywhere CLOSE to as much ice as it does when we are NOT in the Holocene period of the ice age. Did you read my post? Though I agreed with the general sentiment of what you said, that politicians abuse the ignorance of the masses to gain their favor.





so you're saying that when we're in a glacial period that there's more ice at the
poles? imagine that, there's more ice when something is colder and less ice when
it's warmer and being that we've been coming out of one of those glacial periods
for the last 15000 years, it stands to reason it would be getting warmer and the
ice would be melting, I'm sure there was a shitload more ice back then than there
is now, hell, there must have been a real shit ton of ice over 20% of the planet
300,000 years ago... can you imagine that, lots of ice and snow during an ice age
and less ice and snow during a warm period.. .crazy aint it


I see that you are trying to sarcastically insinuate that the melting of the ice caps is occurring because of natural processes.


http://www.dw.com/en/polar-ice-sheets-melting-faster-than-ever/a-16432199

Quote:

The polar ice caps have melted faster in last 20 years than in the last 10,000. A comprehensive satellite study confirms that the melting ice caps are raising sea levels at an accelerating rate.





Quote:

n the huge area of East Antartica, the ice is mostly above sea level, Shepherd explains. The air temperature is also much lower, and the experts do not expect the ice to melt on account of rising temperatures. In this part of Antarctica, the ice sheet is actually growing as a consequence of increased snowfall. This has led some critics to question the global warming theory. However for Shepherd and his colleagues, the changes are all consistent with patterns of climate warming, which leads to more evaporation from the oceans and in turn more precipitation, which falls as snow on the ice sheets.





That the greenhouse effect occurs in any given sufficiently closed system is not up for debate. There is no natural source causing the greenhouse effect that could possibly cause the melting of ice caps to accelerate by 2000%. The source is human CO2 and methane emissions. Again, the earth will be just fine in the long run regardless of how much co2 we pump into it. We are just making our own lives and the lives of future generations more difficult


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Re: Been seeing a lot of people post this article about the Antarctic ice sheets lately... [Re: morrowasted]
    #22486450 - 11/06/15 02:34 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

http://mashable.com/2015/11/03/nasa-antarctica-mass-gain/?utm_cid=mash-com-Tw-main-link#fgdxRNJ1dPqs

Quote:

These results were trumpeted by many media outlets as a drastic reversal of NASA scientists' previous research, which relied on other satellite systems and observational data, that showed the continent as a whole or in part to be shedding ice at an increasing rate.

However, even Zwally said the study does not contradict the troubling trends seen in western Antarctica, where the Thwaites and Pine Island glaciers have been speeding up what may be an irreversible slide into the Southern Ocean. This slide could even occur in our lifetime.

“The climate is warming dramatically, it’s due to greenhouse gases, we need to do something about it, and climate deniers should not take comfort in this result which is one of the many things happening globally and it doesn’t mean that climate change is not taking place,” he said




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Re: Been seeing a lot of people post this article about the Antarctic ice sheets lately... [Re: morrowasted]
    #22486464 - 11/06/15 02:36 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)



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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Been seeing a lot of people post this article about the Antarctic ice sheets lately... [Re: morrowasted]
    #22486478 - 11/06/15 02:40 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

morrowasted said:
http://phys.org/news/2015-10-mass-gains-antarctic-ice-sheet.html


Just thought I would clear something up. If you ACTUALLY READ THE ARTICLE, this is what it says:
Quote:


“If the losses of the Antarctic Peninsula and parts of West Antarctica continue to increase at the same rate they’ve been increasing for the last two decades, the losses will catch up with the long-term gain in East Antarctica in 20 or 30 years - I don’t think there will be enough snowfall increase to offset these losses,” said Zwally.





The added ice is from precipitation- snowfall. That doesn't mean ice isn't melting due to warming- it is. Eventually, as the positive feedback cycle between the rising temperature of the sea, the amount of light reflected from the sea versus the amount reflected from the ice, and the amount of ice melting worsens, the ice is almost certain to melt more and more rapidly.


The climate isn't naturally stable. It fluctuates over time at large scales. This isn't conjecture, all you have to do is study geology. For the last 50,000 years the climate has been relatively stable because we have been in the Holocene- the relative intermission from a 2.6 million year long (and counting) ice-age. If we were not in an ice age, the Antarctican and Greenland ice sheets would not exist to nearly the extent that they do, if at all. This has allowed humans the opportunity to migrate throughout the world, instead of just living in regions that were nearer to the equator, and to eventually settle down and learn agriculture.

Life has been almost completely wiped out multiple times in the history of the planet. There have been six major mass extinction events in the history of life on our planet. In the Permian–Triassic extinction, 96% of all marine species and 70% of of all land species were wiped out. The extinction was most likely caused by naturally occurring global warming resulting from a massive release of methane from the sea floors. It took about 30 million years for life to recover from this extinction event.

So it is technically "natural" for Greenland and Antarctica and Alaska and so forth not to have so much ice. But the thing is, it's BAD FOR MOST OF HUMANS FOR IT NOT TO BE THERE. First and foremost, A LOT OF PEOPLE DEPEND ON GLACIERS FOR FRESHWATER. Also, if the global temperature ries even 2 or 3 degrees celsius, which it EVENTUALLY WILL WHEN THE AMOUNT OF PRECIPITATION NO LONGER OFFSETS THE RATE AT WHICH THE ICE IS MELTING, regional changes will vary- the 10 people living in Canada and the Siberian Tundra will like it- but for most people the effect will be overwhelmingly negative.




We're in an ice age?


Yes, we are, but we are in the INTERMISSION period of that ice age.







:lolsy:


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Been seeing a lot of people post this article about the Antarctic ice sheets lately... [Re: morrowasted]
    #22486482 - 11/06/15 02:41 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)



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Re: Been seeing a lot of people post this article about the Antarctic ice sheets lately... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22486527 - 11/06/15 02:51 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

morrowasted said:




Sucker

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2013/05/30/global-warming-alarmists-caught-doctoring-97-percent-consensus-claims/


Yeah, basically what this is is a bunch of scientists saying "well, see, it's more complex than that." And they are correct, when the question is, "Are humans causing a global warming crisis?". Very few scientists are going to answer broadly defined questions like, "Are humans causing a global warming crisis?"

I don't know to what extent I would agree with such a claim. However, I challenge you to find me an example of one single climate scientist who denies any of the following:
- That the greenhouse effect occurs in any sufficiently closed system
- That the naturally occurring greenhouse effect is being amplified by human CO2 and methane emissions
- That the amplification of the greenhouse effect is gradually causing the average global sea temperature to increase.
- That as a result, the rate at which the glaciers are melting is accelerating.


The real sucker here is not me, it is you for simply hearing what you want to hear. Whenever an article gets published that you like, such as the Forbes article, you latch onto it, but don't truly analyze it. But then again, I take it you've never actually worked as a scientists, and had some guy come and ask you a super broad question that is not cached out within the constrained terminology of your theory.


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Re: Been seeing a lot of people post this article about the Antarctic ice sheets lately... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22486558 - 11/06/15 02:57 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interglacial

Quote:

During the 2.5 million year span of the Pleistocene, numerous glacials, or significant advances of continental ice sheets in North America and Europe, have occurred at intervals of approximately 40,000 to 100,000 years. These long glacial periods were separated by more temperate and shorter interglacials.

During interglacials, such as the present one, the climate warms and the tundra recedes polewards following the ice sheets. Forests return to areas that once supported tundra vegetation. Interglacials are identified on land or in shallow epicontinental seas by their paleontology. Floral and faunal remains of species pointing to temperate climate and indicating a specific age are used to identify particular interglacials. Commonly used are mammalian and molluscan species, pollen and plant macro-remains (seeds and fruits). However, many other fossil remains may be helpful: insects, ostracods, foraminifera, diatoms, etc. Recently, ice cores and ocean sediment cores provide more quantitative and accurately dated evidence for temperatures and total ice volumes.

The interglacials and glacials coincide with cyclic changes in the Earth's orbit. Three orbital variations contribute to interglacials. The first is a change in the Earth's orbit around the sun, or eccentricity. The second is a shift in the tilt of the Earth's axis, the obliquity. The third is precession, or wobbling motion of Earth's axis.[1] Warm summers in the northern hemisphere occur when that hemisphere is tilted toward the sun and the Earth is nearest the sun in its elliptical orbit. Cool summers occur when the Earth is farthest from the sun during that season. These effects are more pronounced when the eccentricity of the orbit is large. When the obliquity is large, seasonal changes are more extreme.[2]




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Re: Been seeing a lot of people post this article about the Antarctic ice sheets lately... [Re: morrowasted]
    #22486565 - 11/06/15 02:58 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

The truth is out there. It's only a matter of whether or not you choose to accept it when you find it.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Been seeing a lot of people post this article about the Antarctic ice sheets lately... [Re: morrowasted]
    #22486574 - 11/06/15 02:59 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

The Earth is not a closed system
Carbon dioxide is such a miniscule percentage of the atmosphere that it beggars belief that it could cause any kind of catastrophe
There is not one shred of real evidence that the greenhouse effect is even relevant to any climate change.  Like I said CO2 is a trace gas and not very dense.  400 PPM by volume.  Slightly more by mass.  400 PPM is 0.004% of the atmosphere.  Fucking spare me. 

The glaciers are always melting.  They have been since the real non-hiatal ice age.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Been seeing a lot of people post this article about the Antarctic ice sheets lately... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22486598 - 11/06/15 03:05 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

There is not one shred of real evidence that the greenhouse effect is even relevant to any climate change.


Oh you mean, other than the greatest extinction event in the history of our planet? :rolleyes: I'm done with talking here. I work with dogs for a living, I should know by now; you can't teach an old dog new tricks.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Been seeing a lot of people post this article about the Antarctic ice sheets lately... [Re: morrowasted]
    #22486637 - 11/06/15 03:13 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

You Kant Reed

Quote:

There is evidence for between one to three distinct pulses, or phases, of extinction




And what that has to do with current climate is a mystery to me.

Quote:

and a runaway greenhouse effect triggered by sudden release of methane from the sea floor due to methane clathrate dissociation or methane-producing microbes known as methanogens




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