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MajickMuffin
Edible Cult


Registered: 05/28/14
Posts: 4,345
Loc: North
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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PC'ing Filter Patch Bags
#22480375 - 11/05/15 09:53 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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I could not find sufficient information on this. Please assist. Let's make this simple and quick.
1: Should the bags be sealed before PC? (Will they bust, can steam escape out filter patch?)
2: Does it matter how full bags are?
3: Does it matter if the bags touch the sides of the PC? 3.5: should I have a taller PC rack so the bags aren't in the water?
Please help me pros, and not just me, anyone looking for this compilation of good information.
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tahoe
Noob Slayer



Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 6,274
Loc: N38.93829W119.98108
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Do not let them touch the sides or each other. You want steam or water to get to all areas.
Sitting in the water is okay.
Some bags can be sealed first, depends on micron of the filter. 5 micron can be sealed .5 micron can be sealed first of all the air is sucked out first. .2 micron can not be sealed.
I use .2 micron. I use polyfill and a zip tie to close the top.
-------------------- Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.
My Legacy https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987 Teh=The I need to proofread
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MajickMuffin
Edible Cult


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Posts: 4,345
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Re: PC'ing Filter Patch Bags [Re: tahoe]
#22480692 - 11/05/15 11:16 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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I believe mine are .2micron
Zip tie and poly fill? How would that look, do you have any pictures?
I am contemplating sealing directly after PC but I like your idea better. Thanks so much for reply!
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mushpunx
Fungus Punk



Registered: 04/20/14
Posts: 13,394
Last seen: 11 days, 11 hours
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Usually you slide a tyvek sleeve between the gussets and accordian fold it. When you pack your PC use jars rings as spacers in between and around the bags to let stean thru.
The bags will have a vaccum sealed look after PC. The reason for the TYvek is to filter the diryy air that is pulled into the PC as it cools.
You would then move the bags in front of your hood or SAB, inoculate , fill with sterile air from hood for plenum (cant do this in SAB) and thrn impulse seal or ziptien
--------------------
 Amateur Mycologists United AMU Q&A
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Plague_Wraith
Horseman


Registered: 07/22/15
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Last seen: 8 months, 20 days
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Re: PC'ing Filter Patch Bags [Re: mushpunx]
#22489824 - 11/07/15 09:32 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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1: Should the bags be sealed before PC? (Will they bust, can steam escape out filter patch?) I use .5 micron bags sealed with either a zip tie or an impulse sealer before PC'ing. None of them have burst yet.
2: Does it matter how full bags are? I fill to about an inch or two under the filter.
3: Does it matter if the bags touch the sides of the PC? It seems to matter, yes. The only trouble I've ever had with bags is that they can melt. *Pro Tip: Wrap your bags with tin foil (leave the filter uncovered) and it helps to prevent melting.
3.5: should I have a taller PC rack so the bags aren't in the water? The bags are fine being in the water as long as the water level is lower than the filter patch. You definitely want a riser though so the bags aren't touching the bottom of the PC.
-------------------- Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured. - Mark Twain
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firstTIMER420
Born the son of a sharecropper..



Registered: 05/08/15
Posts: 1,025
Loc: US, maybe?
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Re: PC'ing Filter Patch Bags [Re: mushpunx]
#22489850 - 11/07/15 09:38 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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ive been wanting to get into bags lately, as I bought like 50. I was thinking waiting until I get a hood would be better.
But, Is inoculating with agar optimal? Or should I use LC?
Also, im confused on how you slide the tyvek sleeves. Do you mean just put it up against the bag and fold them together?
and OP, yes some micron size bags will burst in the PC. I think .5 and up are ok to pre seal.
-------------------- 1 2 3 4 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22386794[/url] --Anything posted by this account is completely fictitious--
Edited by firstTIMER420 (11/07/15 09:39 AM)
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Plague_Wraith
Horseman


Registered: 07/22/15
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Last seen: 8 months, 20 days
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Quote:
firstTIMER420 said: But, Is inoculating with agar optimal? Or should I use LC?
Also, im confused on how you slide the tyvek sleeves. Do you mean just put it up against the bag and fold them together?
You could probably do either if you had good sterile technique and either a flow hood or a SAB. Personally, I just LC. Slipping an agar wedge in there seems like it would be a hassle.
I don't use tyvek for anything. I just fold the top of my bags so the filter is facing up and then I tape it down with a piece of micropore tape just to hold it in place.
-------------------- Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured. - Mark Twain
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firstTIMER420
Born the son of a sharecropper..



Registered: 05/08/15
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Loc: US, maybe?
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gotcha.
And everyone should AT LEAST have an SAB
-------------------- 1 2 3 4 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22386794[/url] --Anything posted by this account is completely fictitious--
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Hook420
Stranger

Registered: 04/20/10
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Re: PC'ing Filter Patch Bags [Re: tahoe]
#22490271 - 11/07/15 11:08 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
tahoe said: Do not let them touch the sides or each other. You want steam or water to get to all areas.
Sitting in the water is okay.
Some bags can be sealed first, depends on micron of the filter. 5 micron can be sealed .5 micron can be sealed first of all the air is sucked out first. .2 micron can not be sealed.
I use .2 micron. I use polyfill and a zip tie to close the top.
I've never used bags yet but have been giving it some thought lately. I know people use rings as spacers but how in hell can you stuff in a few bags an not have them touch. I like the tinfoil idea, but that seems like such a waste.
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Plague_Wraith
Horseman


Registered: 07/22/15
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Re: PC'ing Filter Patch Bags [Re: Hook420]
#22490418 - 11/07/15 11:42 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
firstTIMER420 said: And everyone should AT LEAST have an SAB
Agreed. 
Quote:
Hook420 said: I know people use rings as spacers but how in hell can you stuff in a few bags an not have them touch. I like the tinfoil idea, but that seems like such a waste.
The bags definitely touch even with the rings. I think the idea behind the rings is just to create a little more space to help decrease the potential for the bags to melt.
My tinfoil idea might seem like a waste of resources, but if you've ever had a big ass bag of spawn melt in your PC you'll start to look for ways to prevent it from happening again and the foil works. It's more of a waste to have a perfectly good filter bag (or several) melt on you and then you have to restart the whole process. Plus, if you're careful you can keep reusing the the foil.
-------------------- Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured. - Mark Twain
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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The reason for the rings is to allow space for steam to pentetrate. No steam no sterilization. 0.5 micron bags can be preselected but expect to lose a few. I did it that way a few times with success tho.
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firstTIMER420
Born the son of a sharecropper..



Registered: 05/08/15
Posts: 1,025
Loc: US, maybe?
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Re: PC'ing Filter Patch Bags [Re: Pastywhyte]
#22490590 - 11/07/15 12:26 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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correct me if im wrong, but I don't really see a point in pre sealing, if you have to open it up to inoculate anyways, since most bags don't have an inoculation port.
-------------------- 1 2 3 4 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22386794[/url] --Anything posted by this account is completely fictitious--
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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I just poke a syringe right through the bag then cover the hole with a bandaid and tape. Low risk if done in a SAB and with a clean LC.
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Plague_Wraith
Horseman


Registered: 07/22/15
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Re: PC'ing Filter Patch Bags [Re: Pastywhyte]
#22490734 - 11/07/15 01:05 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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I use a dab of silicone smeared into a small circle on the back of the bag (opposite side of the filter patch) to create a SHIP. It works just fine and I feel good about the sealing effect. Whatever works!
-------------------- Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured. - Mark Twain
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firstTIMER420
Born the son of a sharecropper..



Registered: 05/08/15
Posts: 1,025
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Re: PC'ing Filter Patch Bags [Re: Pastywhyte]
#22492390 - 11/07/15 06:38 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: I just poke a syringe right through the bag then cover the hole with a bandaid and tape. Low risk if done in a SAB and with a clean LC.
I was thinking about doing exactly this. Have you ever had bags rip and such since they are plastic?
And plague, that's not a bad idea either, I think ill try both and see what I like. Jars are cool and all, but bags seem to be much easier.
The only part about bags I didn't like, was mixing the spawn inside it. I poured the substrate in there after breaking the grains, and tried mixing, but didn't work very well.
-------------------- 1 2 3 4 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22386794[/url] --Anything posted by this account is completely fictitious--
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mra
Mr. Ambiguity

Registered: 07/27/14
Posts: 99
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Quote:
Plague_Wraith said: My tinfoil idea might seem like a waste of resources, but if you've ever had a big ass bag of spawn melt in your PC you'll start to look for ways to prevent it from happening again and the foil works. It's more of a waste to have a perfectly good filter bag (or several) melt on you and then you have to restart the whole process. Plus, if you're careful you can keep reusing the the foil.
I have to agree there. There is nothing worse than having a bag melt, especially when its 4+ quarts of spawn. I have wrapped my bags loosely in foil ever since the bottom bag got a bunch of holes melted from the spacer in the bottom of the pressure cooker. I also put an extra layer of foil wherever the bags touch the sides.
-------------------- Mra's grow log
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mushpunx
Fungus Punk



Registered: 04/20/14
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Re: PC'ing Filter Patch Bags [Re: mra]
#22493087 - 11/07/15 09:18 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Ive never had a bag melt in my AA but I struggled a lot at first with my presto. The wallls are thinner and it took a bit of playing around to get it right.
If you watch the sawdust sections of LetsGrowMushrooms RR shows how to fold the tyvek in to the bags and how to pack the PC. Also inoculation.
I really like innoculating bags G2G. Pint masters work great for this quarts too. inoculate the masters with agar. inoculate the bags and zip tie or impulse seal.
If you are confident with LC or LI then you can pre seal and go thru the side of bag too.
--------------------
 Amateur Mycologists United AMU Q&A
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firstTIMER420
Born the son of a sharecropper..



Registered: 05/08/15
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Re: PC'ing Filter Patch Bags [Re: Pastywhyte]
#22493263 - 11/07/15 10:00 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Where do you poke thru, on the bottom where the grains are or ontop of that.
-------------------- 1 2 3 4 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22386794[/url] --Anything posted by this account is completely fictitious--
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: PC'ing Filter Patch Bags [Re: mushpunx]
#22493269 - 11/07/15 10:01 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Your bags can most certainly touch the side of your pc. And each other, though you'll have to extend pc times. I just fold the top of the filter.
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



Registered: 12/08/14
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Loc: The Sporetorn States
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Re: PC'ing Filter Patch Bags [Re: azur]
#22493335 - 11/07/15 10:20 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
azur said: Your bags can most certainly touch the side of your pc. And each other, though you'll have to extend pc times. I just fold the top of the filter.
I assume you want to bring the PC up to boiling and pressure slowly, especially if it's a thin PC not an AA? Any experience using oven bags for spawn bags? Are they as resilient?
--------------------
I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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