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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: Do you think we have free will? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22480327 - 11/05/15 09:34 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

predictions of the future are frequently vague, inaccurate or wrong




I don't think so.  I think they are pretty damn accurate if you consider them as a whole.  Predict the sun will rise in the morning, predict that the weather will warm in the summer, predict that the car will start when I turn it over, predict that I will die within a few decades, predict that if I pull the trigger a bullet will come out - these are all very accurate predictions of the future.  You take then for granted as obvious because they are so accurate and specific.


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InvisiblePerusha_Kyuden
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Registered: 07/27/15
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Re: Do you think we have free will? [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #22480387 - 11/05/15 09:57 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Well man i certainly cant agree with you on that one

We do have control over ourselves since we can always plan ahead but alot of it depends on who you are and what you believe in, and alot of people dont really have thenselves situated they are completely dependent on society, almost like brainwashed. People are so unique and beautiful i find it sad that schools/parents dont raise people to be individual thinkers, to blossom like flowers:) instead most people are just empty of life and just simple reflections of their environment/society.

Coming back on topic I have had momments where i feel like i had no free will but i think theres a point where you subcounsciously know yourself well enough to act without paying attention while still counscious (not just talking in Your sleep) but i doubt anyone could ever act without free will... Maybe if they somehow thought their mind had been hijacked by an outside force but that would be pure insanity.

Anyways sorry for rambling mann peace:)<3


--------------------
Master of none


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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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Re: Do you think we have free will? [Re: Perusha_Kyuden]
    #22480464 - 11/05/15 10:17 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

By all means feel free to ramble, all opinions are welcome.

"Maybe if they somehow thought their mind had been hijacked by an outside force but that would be pure insanity."

I used to read a lot of philosophy and I remember I think it was Rene Descartes who made that quote "I think therefore I am" which revolved around that thought exactly, it's been a while since I read it but I believe he was saying something along the lines of, what if a demon was controlling or manipulating everything outside of himself and how could he be sure anything is real, and eventually came to the conclusion which is the famous quote "I think therefore I am" meaning your thoughts are proof you exist even if everything else is being manipulated or fake.

The only reason I bring that up is because there was another philospher who tried to debunk him saying what if the demon was the one projecting the thoughts into his head making it so "thinking" wasn't proof of existence and that you could still be being manipulated by an outside force.

It basically is mumbo jumbo/insanity but both books were really thought provoking and interesting perspectives. I might of just butchered it completely too, it's been years since I read those books lol

But those lines of thought do in some way reflect my position that while it might not be a demon or entity controlling our thoughts, it's just the wiring of our brains that determines the thoughts we think, maybe not fully as some people pointed out there are clearly choices we undoubtedly make but I still think it's a mix of just your configuration/ what you've experienced in the past that you didn't have control over that influences your choices mixed with freewill. I'm open to us having freewill, after all I feel like I'm the one making choices, just certain aspects of it make me think it's not as simple as we either do or don't


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Registered: 06/02/09
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Re: Do you think we have free will? [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #22480503 - 11/05/15 10:28 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

If its all predetermined then why should there be any sort of active perception of anything going on? Why isn't it just zombie mode? A car engine isn't aware of anything why are we?


Edited by Bodhi of Ankou (11/05/15 10:33 AM)


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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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Re: Do you think we have free will? [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #22480571 - 11/05/15 10:44 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Edit: I reread what I said and realized how retarded it was

But idk, idk why we have awareness and a car engine doesn't, just like I don't know why there is something rather than nothing

But my lack of an answer or understanding isn't evidence or proof for something else, we're humans and not made to understand the complexities of existence.


Edited by SirShroomsAlott (11/05/15 11:23 AM)


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InvisiblePerusha_Kyuden
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Re: Do you think we have free will? [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #22480798 - 11/05/15 11:44 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

We might not be able to understand life's complexities but we should definitely question them

Because we CAN

Thats what makes us different from the car engine is that we are constantly thinking, questioning and evolving

Its what makes us human.
Everyone needs something to believe in<3


--------------------
Master of none


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OfflineAchillita
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Re: Do you think we have free will? [Re: Perusha_Kyuden]
    #22480880 - 11/05/15 12:02 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Thinking whether we have free will or not is a bit of a hard question. Personally, I'm convinced we all do, but there's a bit of doubt whether or not we have free will. And it's mainly due to me thinking about time travel.

There's 2 theories that I like to think about when it comes to time travel. Number 1 is that every decision you make creates a new universe that branches out infinitely into more universe with every decision that anyone makes, creating an infinite amount of possible outcomes. This theory implies free will, that we have the option to do what we want, and that could change the course of our universe.

Theory number 2 is that everything we do has already been predetermined to happen, so every decision we make has already been set to happen so the universe will end in the way that it has already set course for. Say you go back in time to kill hitler as a baby, you kill him. But his younger brother pretty much takes over his place. This theory implies that we have no real say in the universe, and have no free will. Only the illusion of it.


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OfflineEzuma
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Re: Do you think we have free will? [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #22480960 - 11/05/15 12:27 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

depends on how you define free will.
To my mind, free will is essentially an incorrect concept ie, given the happenings of the universe and your upbringing/conditioning, your genetics etc, each choice you face is in a way predetermined and a given person would only chose a given option to each quandry.
Though since its pretty hard to predict any of that, it's much easier to just operate under the assumption that we do have free will, especially for the purposes of law which is fine by me


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: Do you think we have free will? [Re: Ezuma] * 1
    #22481132 - 11/05/15 01:10 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I tend to think of life as a game your dropped into. You don't have any say in where youre dropped in or who raises you and the effect that has on you but youre in total control of personal direction and growth. No different then a super immersive mmorpg.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Do you think we have free will? [Re: Ezuma]
    #22481177 - 11/05/15 01:26 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

If I don't have don't a free will, then there is no point in arguing about it, because any argument I come up with is just determined by physical forces and there is no good reason to say whether it makes sense or doesn't make sense.


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OfflineEzuma
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Re: Do you think we have free will? [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #22481183 - 11/05/15 01:28 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

that's definitely an optimal view to have.
I suspect what constitutes reality and what constitutes a prime functioning human view of the world don't align perfectly.
So when I say I don't really believe in free will, I still live with the assumption it exists. It's only on sitting down and thinking about it that you're reminded it's illusory, much like the ego I guess. Illusory but very useful.


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OfflineEzuma
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Re: Do you think we have free will? [Re: morrowasted]
    #22481190 - 11/05/15 01:29 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
If I don't have don't a free will, then there is no point in arguing about it, because any argument I come up with is just determined by physical forces and there is no good reason to say whether it makes sense or doesn't make sense.




pretty much but same goes for any opinion. It's all just shits and giggles from then on :shrug:


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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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Registered: 05/15/14
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Re: Do you think we have free will? [Re: Ezuma] * 1
    #22481215 - 11/05/15 01:40 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

That's basically all this thread was about, it's not about arguing who is right or wrong, just seeing different perspectives on an idea where the answer won't realistically make anyone's life any different. Just a fun topic of conversation


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Do you think we have free will? [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #22481232 - 11/05/15 01:47 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Its an interesting topic in court too.

Take a guy on trial for murder.

Was it intentional? Did he kill his family out of free will or was it his Schizophrenia "controlling his thoughts"?

Some people kill "in the moment" while others think it out for a looong time. Which is more like free will?


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Do you think we have free will? [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #22481238 - 11/05/15 01:48 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Was it intentional? Did he kill his family out of free will or was it his Schizophrenia "controlling his thoughts"?

Some people kill "in the moment" while others think it out for a looong time. Which is more like free will?




In the end, what difference does it make?  They are a danger to society either way.


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OfflineEzuma
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Re: Do you think we have free will? [Re: DieCommie]
    #22481358 - 11/05/15 02:27 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Was it intentional? Did he kill his family out of free will or was it his Schizophrenia "controlling his thoughts"?

Some people kill "in the moment" while others think it out for a looong time. Which is more like free will?




In the end, what difference does it make?  They are a danger to society either way.




this. I don't see the useful aspect of justice as punishment, so it doesn't matter. It's just a question of whether someone is too dangerous to have walking around freely


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Invisiblemillzy
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Re: Do you think we have free will? [Re: Ezuma]
    #22481462 - 11/05/15 02:59 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

i wish i could recall the details of the free will talk i attended earlier this year. the professor i heard lecture is our department's free will guy. he broke the issue down into two camps: neo-aristotelian and humean. i can't recall what distinguishes one from the other. i'm throwing it out there in case anyone knows what i'm talking about. it was a fascinating talk. really, really cool professor. i'm taking him for ethics this semester.


--------------------
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OfflineVsnares.Zappa
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Re: Do you think we have free will? [Re: millzy] * 1
    #22481762 - 11/05/15 04:23 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

you didn't chose to be born

you didn't chose your parents

you didn't chose where you were born.



you don't have free will


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: Do you think we have free will? [Re: Vsnares.Zappa] * 1
    #22481768 - 11/05/15 04:24 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

That's so dum.


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Invisibleblackdust
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Registered: 02/28/09
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Re: Do you think we have free will? [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #22481926 - 11/05/15 04:50 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

free will was invented by humans
its not tangible

:themoreyouknow:


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