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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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Do you think we have free will? * 1
    #22479731 - 11/05/15 07:12 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I never thought so, or at the very least I wouldn't say we fully do. I've noticed religious people in general say god gave us freewill to choose but where was the option to choose whether we wanted to go through all of this or not?

If you try not to think or focus only on one thing like your breath, thoughts just pop into your head without you choosing what those thoughts are, which makes me think this happens often but we're never paying that close of attention, so if we don't even fully choose what we're always thinking about, and thought is what influences our actions, would it be possible that we just feel in control when we really aren't?

Do you think we do or dont? Why or why not, I have more reasons I think we don't but it would be long-winded and sound even dumber than it probably already does.

Everytime someone has asked me this question my usual response is "of course we do, we don't have a choice" :lol:


Edited by SirShroomsAlott (11/05/15 07:19 AM)


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: Do you think we have free will? [Re: SirShroomsAlott] * 1
    #22479745 - 11/05/15 07:20 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I think because we have the ability to plan and forsee outcomes that we do have freewill. We're capable of planning ahead and choosing the action that best suites us. That's something that requires choice.


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Invisibleconnectedcosmos
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Re: Do you think we have free will? [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #22479757 - 11/05/15 07:23 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Do you think the future already exists? I mean the past exists and now exists why not the future everything that has happend or will happen is probably in existence!  Lol idk


--------------------


54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Do you think we have free will? [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #22479767 - 11/05/15 07:26 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

"Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills." - A. Schopenhauer


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Do you think we have free will? [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #22479785 - 11/05/15 07:30 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SirShroomsAlott said:
I never thought so, or at the very least I wouldn't say we fully do. I've noticed religious people in general say god gave us freewill to choose but where was the option to choose whether we wanted to go through all of this or not?





so you're saying that a person doesnt have the ability to kill themselves
because they dont have the free will to choose life or death


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Do you think we have free will? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22479793 - 11/05/15 07:32 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

SirShroomsAlott said:
I never thought so, or at the very least I wouldn't say we fully do. I've noticed religious people in general say god gave us freewill to choose but where was the option to choose whether we wanted to go through all of this or not?





so you're saying that a person doesnt have the ability to kill themselves
because they dont have the free will to choose life or death




I would say that, yeah, you can kill yourself...but then you always were going to kill yourself. If you don't, you weren't :wink:

Living in this timeline feels very free...only because we can't see the future.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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Registered: 05/15/14
Posts: 6,945
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Re: Do you think we have free will? [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #22479818 - 11/05/15 07:38 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
I think because we have the ability to plan and forsee outcomes that we do have freewill. We're capable of planning ahead and choosing the action that best suites us. That's something that requires choice.




I agree to am extent, but even than you're making a plan to choose something in the future that was influenced by past actions the outcomes of which you most likely didn't have control over.

Say you're put on the spot and forced to make a choice, a ridiculous scenario but like "kill your father or your mother dies" or anything that requires a choice without an advanced plan. Thoughts will pop into your head that will influence the choice you're about to make and you didn't choose them yet they're the basis for your decision, so it feels like you chose but you made a choice based off something you didn't choose, if that makes sense.

I'm not trying to argue or anything btw, I jus think freewill is an interesting topic


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Do you think we have free will? [Re: trendal]
    #22479824 - 11/05/15 07:39 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

SirShroomsAlott said:
I never thought so, or at the very least I wouldn't say we fully do. I've noticed religious people in general say god gave us freewill to choose but where was the option to choose whether we wanted to go through all of this or not?





so you're saying that a person doesnt have the ability to kill themselves
because they dont have the free will to choose life or death




I would say that, yeah, you can kill yourself...but then you always were going to kill yourself. If you don't, you weren't :wink:

Living in this timeline feels very free...only because we can't see the future.




you only say that because you have the freewill to do so


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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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Re: Do you think we have free will? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22479835 - 11/05/15 07:42 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

SirShroomsAlott said:
I never thought so, or at the very least I wouldn't say we fully do. I've noticed religious people in general say god gave us freewill to choose but where was the option to choose whether we wanted to go through all of this or not?





so you're saying that a person doesnt have the ability to kill themselves
because they dont have the free will to choose life or death




I'm saying that the thought of killing themselves and the action of doing it was caused by thoughts that came about because of actions and events that they didn't have control or a choice over throughout life  :shrug:

IMO thoughts dictate choices and we don't have full control over thought, whether that's right or not I can't say I've just always felt that way


Edited by SirShroomsAlott (11/05/15 07:47 AM)


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Do you think we have free will? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22479837 - 11/05/15 07:42 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

No, I only say that because I saw a post on here about free will - free will is something I have a rather intense interest in - and because I read a post by you.

Then again, we always were going to have this conversation. You always were going to read this post :wink:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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OfflineLessonsLearndNLife
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Re: Do you think we have free will? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22479846 - 11/05/15 07:43 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I think freewill is a perception it's how our brain is wired kinda like a computer.


--------------------
:mushroom2:  It's the question that drives us It's the question that brought us here. You know the question, just as I do:mushroom2:


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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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Registered: 05/15/14
Posts: 6,945
Loc: United States Flag
Re: Do you think we have free will? [Re: trendal]
    #22479856 - 11/05/15 07:46 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
No, I only say that because I saw a post on here about free will - free will is something I have a rather intense interest in - and because I read a post by you.

Then again, we always were going to have this conversation. You always were going to read this post :wink:





I feel the same, I think about free will a lot for some reason


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Do you think we have free will? [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #22479871 - 11/05/15 07:49 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SirShroomsAlott said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

SirShroomsAlott said:
I never thought so, or at the very least I wouldn't say we fully do. I've noticed religious people in general say god gave us freewill to choose but where was the option to choose whether we wanted to go through all of this or not?





so you're saying that a person doesnt have the ability to kill themselves
because they dont have the free will to choose life or death




I'm saying that the thought of killing themselves and the action of doing it was caused by thoughts that came about because of actions and events that they didn't have control or a choice over throughout life  :shrug:

IMO thoughts dictate choices and we don't have full control over though, whether that's right or not I can't say I've just always felt that way





but they have that choice, the illusion of a predetermined outcome is a religious
one, a 'god' that is micromanaging every single event in everyone's life, having
a noisy brain doesnt strip one of free will


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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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Registered: 05/15/14
Posts: 6,945
Loc: United States Flag
Re: Do you think we have free will? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22479992 - 11/05/15 08:13 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Not necescarily IMO I think it can still have a natural explanation, it's just the way our brains are wired to work, we feel in control of our thoughts when we don't choose what we think about, our past events dictates what we're going to think about in any given situation giving us the illusion of choice IMO though you could be right, it's not like I have the answer


For example even though this will sound like a hippy or just plain dumb, if I say, "I'm going to choose what I think about, so I'll think about apples" I wasn't thinking of apples before I thought that, apples just popped up first without me doing anything, so why did my mind choose apples instead of a billion other things it could of went to, I feel like I chose to think about apples when in reality I would of had to think before I think for me to of chose apples rather than something else, my mind chose it for me even though I feel like I'm the one doing the thinking

By the time this thread dies out I feel like I'm going to have a reputation as even more of a tard than before :lol:


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: Do you think we have free will? [Re: SirShroomsAlott] * 1
    #22480046 - 11/05/15 08:25 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SirShroomsAlott said:
Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
I think because we have the ability to plan and forsee outcomes that we do have freewill. We're capable of planning ahead and choosing the action that best suites us. That's something that requires choice.




I agree to am extent, but even than you're making a plan to choose something in the future that was influenced by past actions the outcomes of which you most likely didn't have control over.

Say you're put on the spot and forced to make a choice, a ridiculous scenario but like "kill your father or your mother dies" or anything that requires a choice without an advanced plan. Thoughts will pop into your head that will influence the choice you're about to make and you didn't choose them yet they're the basis for your decision, so it feels like you chose but you made a choice based off something you didn't choose, if that makes sense.

I'm not trying to argue or anything btw, I jus think freewill is an interesting topic




Thoughts may pop into your mind but you have an ability to override and create your own narrative through critical thinking about the situation. If you practiced meditation at any length it's relatively easy to silence the flow of them. As far as the "everything was already gonna be that way lol" camp. Many, many things in this universe are determined on probability. Something that's the anti-thesis to predetermination.


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InvisibleMalcolm_Xtasy
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Re: Do you think we have free will? [Re: Bodhi of Ankou] * 1
    #22480070 - 11/05/15 08:30 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Oh God. Another one of these threads? I'm disappointed in you, SSA. I guess I'm obligated to make a "Does God exist?" thread now :lol:


--------------------
I'm stupid, Enlil is smart.
I'm ugly, Enlil is beautiful.
I'm a loser, Enlil is a winner.
Someday, I hope to be like Enlil but secretly know I never will.


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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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Re: Do you think we have free will? [Re: Malcolm_Xtasy]
    #22480086 - 11/05/15 08:36 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Lolol I couldn't help myself, I'm hoping no one argues religion or the existence of God here. I mean I guess in a way it would come down to god or no god at some point but hopefully it can just be a fun thought provoking discussion without arguing beliefs of a higher power


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Do you think we have free will? [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #22480089 - 11/05/15 08:36 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SirShroomsAlott said:
Not necescarily IMO I think it can still have a natural explanation, it's just the way our brains are wired to work, we feel in control of our thoughts when we don't choose what we think about, our past events dictates what we're going to think about in any given situation giving us the illusion of choice IMO though you could be right, it's not like I have the answer




yet we can in fact choose what we think about


Quote:

For example even though this will sound like a hippy or just plain dumb, if I say, "I'm going to choose what I think about, so I'll think about apples" I wasn't thinking of apples before I thought that, apples just popped up first without me doing anything, so why did my mind choose apples instead of a billion other things it could of went to, I feel like I chose to think about apples when in reality I would of had to think before I think for me to of chose apples rather than something else, my mind chose it for me even though I feel like I'm the one doing the thinking





you're right, it sounds completely dumb since you chose to think about apples,
regardless, you choose what you think about and even when you dont make the
choice and a random thought pops into your head, it doesnt negate free will, it's
how our brains are wired. you decide to think of something and something you see
or hear may trigger a random thought. if all you have are random thoughts then
you may have a mental illness

Quote:

By the time this thread dies out I feel like I'm going to have a reputation as even more of a tard than before :lol:





hahaha.. see, it was your freewill that made you a tard and our freewill to
say you've strayed well beyond just being a tard


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OfflineTheGreenArrow
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Re: Do you think we have free will? [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #22480092 - 11/05/15 08:37 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

It seems if you follow true will life is a lot healthier!


--------------------
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an
invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, conn a ship, write a
sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the
dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve an
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computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.- Robert A. Heinlein
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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Do you think we have free will? [Re: SirShroomsAlott] * 1
    #22480093 - 11/05/15 08:38 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I just askeed this question in the Philosophy forum myself. How weird.

Good point about the random thoughts!

Whats interesting is u cannot control the random thoughts, but with mediatation practice, u can learn to ignore the thoughts and focus on your breath instead.

I believe humans have partial free will. Things like peer pressure, social influence and the bystander effect for example make free will seem non-existant.

But each of us has our own preference, say for psychoactive drugs. Some people like psychedelics, others dont. Some people like opiates. Others care less, Etc.

Isnt this free will, the choice to choose what we like?

And taste in movies. Isnt that our choice in what movies we like?

does a slave or prisoner not want to escape their shackles?

I believe we start out with partial free will, and over time, we can develop more free will.

Its like its earned thru experience.

I would say stubborn people have the most free will of all.


--------------------
"What you must understand is that your physical dimension affects everyone in the higher dimensions as well. All things are interconnected. All things are One. Therefore, if one dimension is broken or out of balance, then all other dimensions will experience repercussions." - Pleiadian Prophecy 2020 The New Golden Age by James Carwin

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