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OfflinePupenhause
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Gettin back into it...
    #22478044 - 11/04/15 07:40 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

After quite a few years I'm gonna give it another go.  I'm going to be using popcorn in quart jars, how much spore solution would be recommended for each jar?  I've searched and can't find the answer to this.


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OfflinePsilocyBen17
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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: Pupenhause]
    #22478071 - 11/04/15 07:46 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I'd suggest using quarter pint jars and doing grain-to-grain transfers. Spore solution in a quart jar won't colonize fast and will leave a huge window for contams.


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. [Re: PsilocyBen17]
    #22478121 - 11/04/15 08:01 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

.


Edited by sweetpea (11/05/15 06:15 PM)


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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: sweetpea]
    #22478149 - 11/04/15 08:09 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

:whathesaid:

I used a ml myself and it worked fine but i made sure my popcorn was very dry after boiling and used pint jars.

If your spore syringe isn't clean it won't matter though. Agar is really useful and easy too.

Pastyplates:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19208976#19208976

Stro's cleaning and isolating:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18430998#18430998


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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: Pupenhause]
    #22478173 - 11/04/15 08:15 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Pupenhause said:
After quite a few years I'm gonna give it another go.  I'm going to be using popcorn in quart jars, how much spore solution would be recommended for each jar?  I've searched and can't find the answer to this.



We use agar these days


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OfflinePsilocyBen17
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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: azur]
    #22478176 - 11/04/15 08:16 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

:wave: Azur!


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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: PsilocyBen17]
    #22478186 - 11/04/15 08:18 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)



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OfflineiSmkGrnBud
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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: azur]
    #22478239 - 11/04/15 08:32 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

azur said:
We use agar these days




:whathesaid:

:youthemandawg:


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OfflineFreeWorldOrder
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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: iSmkGrnBud]
    #22481414 - 11/05/15 02:48 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Definitely want to use agar with grains for best results.

Spore solution can work, but it takes forever and a lot of times will contaminate before colonizing and sometimes stall out.

Like mentioned above using smaller jars would help if you are determined to use the spore solution to inoculate. 

Agar is just so much easier and more reliable.

Doing some transfers tonite actually.


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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: FreeWorldOrder]
    #22482225 - 11/05/15 06:02 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Yea never put spores to grain directly. Its icky.


And you might want to pick a better grain, rye or wild bird seed


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OfflinePupenhause
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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: mushpunx]
    #22482380 - 11/05/15 06:37 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks for the input everyone.  Another grain is no problem, but why choose another one over popcorn?


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OfflinePupenhause
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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: Pupenhause]
    #22482696 - 11/05/15 07:27 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

One of the wild bird seed teks I looked at uses a spore solution...


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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: Pupenhause]
    #22483714 - 11/05/15 10:45 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Pupenhause said
One of the wild bird seed teks I looked at uses a spore solution...




Anyone can write a tek dude. Just because it says "tek" doesnt mean its anything but garbage.

Spores to grain will work, it will germinate and colonize and if you're lucky it might even be clean. But that is more of a fluke than anything.

BRF if fairly forgiving and will handle most spore s yringesn. But syringes are rarely clean enough to go to grain.

Most germination plates show at least bacteria that you will have to transfer away from. Bacteria or mold that would otherwise be injected straight into your grains.

Ive inoculated grains w spores and had success. But its just not a good way to innoculste


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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: mushpunx]
    #22483936 - 11/05/15 11:27 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

2 cc's per qt jar tops, test your syringe first...g2g any healthy jars ya get and look into agar in the meantime, best of luck.


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OfflinePupenhause
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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: cronicr]
    #22484463 - 11/06/15 05:14 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Well I'm not taking any shortcuts, so my best route is going to be agar.    So when the agar is ready is 1cc of solution sufficient?  And when imnready to inoculate my grain jars, how much do I put in there?  Sorry for all the questions, I'm not finding this stuff.


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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: Pupenhause]
    #22484472 - 11/06/15 05:23 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Pupenhause said:
Well I'm not taking andripped tcuts, so my best route is going to be agar.    So when the agar is ready is 1cc of solution sufficient?  And when imnready to inoculate my grain jars, how much do I put in there?  Sorry for all the questions, I'm not finding this stuff.




1cc would be way too much. Less than 1 drop would be best, dripped onto a sterile swab and swiped on the plate.

A dime size wedge of agar is enough but we all have our preferences. I use more


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OfflineDrCrumbs
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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: mushpunx]
    #22484909 - 11/06/15 08:37 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah you want growth that grows away from the inoculation point, otherwise it's just all mixed together. So if you puddle the plates it wont have clean surface to grow onto.


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OfflinePupenhause
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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: DrCrumbs]
    #22486270 - 11/06/15 01:56 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

So what I gathered here is: get some agar, use a sterile swab with a little bit of spore solution on it, swipe my agar.  Wait for said agar to colonize, break off chunks of the agar, put in my grain jars.  Shake grain jars til fully colonized.  Make a casing.  Wait a few short weeks, and  I will enjoy tasty mushrooms.  Correct?


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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: Pupenhause]
    #22486291 - 11/06/15 02:01 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

e]Pupenhause said:
So what I gathered here is: get some agar, use a sterile swab with a little bit of spore solution on it, swipe my agar.  Wait for said agar to colonize, break off chunks of the agar, put in my grain jars.  Shake grain jars til fully colonized.  Make a casing.  Wait a few short weeks, and  I will enjoy tasty mushrooms.  Correct?




Close. After germination agar you will have to make transfers to new plates until your culture is clean. You would cut a wedge out to inoculate your grains yes.

A casing is a non nutrient layer placed on top of a colonized substrate. I think what you mean is spawn your grain to a pasturized bulk substrate. Once that is colonized you could case if you want.


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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: mushpunx]
    #22486320 - 11/06/15 02:10 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

:whathesaid: and being that ya only need a drop or two i'd give your syringe  a shoit while ya wait, whats the worst that can happen


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OfflinePupenhause
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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: cronicr]
    #22486338 - 11/06/15 02:14 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

That's true, bird seed is cheap and I have quite a bit of spore solution.


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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: Pupenhause]
    #22486343 - 11/06/15 02:15 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Exactly and best of luck!


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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: cronicr]
    #22486741 - 11/06/15 03:31 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

i recently followed Roger Rabbit's rye tek to a T, and used a spore syringe to inoculate, but after the jars showed no signs of colonization (or contamination)for 2 weeks i decided to crumble up one of my half pint pf cakes in a relatively sterile zip loc bag, and do grain to grain transfer this way, and it worked nicely...One pf cake can be used to knock up 5 quart jars, and the colonization was pretty quick.  I'll never use a syringe to inoculate quart rye jars again.

Btw, i initially used 3 ml of spore solution for each quart jar, and the syringe used was good since it worked on some of the pf jars i used it for.  Also, i waited plenty of time after pressure cooking before inoculating, so the lack of colonizing wasn't due to the rye being too hot for the spores


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Invisiblesweetpea
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. [Re: crackbaby]
    #22486821 - 11/06/15 03:46 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

.


Edited by sweetpea (04/19/16 11:35 AM)


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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: sweetpea]
    #22486878 - 11/06/15 03:59 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

yup...and the incubation temp was around 77 (same temp as colonization with the crumbled pf cake)


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OfflinePupenhause
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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: crackbaby]
    #22486938 - 11/06/15 04:13 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Hm.  My syringes are about four years old, never used any that old.  They're still good I'd inagaine?


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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: Pupenhause]
    #22486967 - 11/06/15 04:18 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

probably, only one way to know


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Invisiblesweetpea
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. [Re: crackbaby]
    #22486976 - 11/06/15 04:20 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

.


Edited by sweetpea (04/19/16 11:34 AM)


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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: sweetpea]
    #22486988 - 11/06/15 04:21 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sweetpea said:
Shaking multispore inoculated jars before the spores germinate is likely why you saw no signs of growth, then. :smile: You should wait to shake jars when using MS syringes.



agreed


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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: sweetpea]
    #22487020 - 11/06/15 04:29 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sweetpea said:
Shaking multispore inoculated jars before the spores have a chance to germinate is likely why you saw no signs of growth, then. :smile: You should wait to shake jars when using MS syringes.





Oh snap...yeah i shook the crap out of em right after inoculation.  Hopefully that's what the problem was...i think i'll still do the grain to grain transfer with crumbled pf cakes on the next grow tho, since it was so fast, and the agar method seems a little too complex for me at this point :smile:


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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: crackbaby]
    #22487339 - 11/06/15 05:40 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Well damn it.  I could inoculate some pf jars and grain to grain transfer that, since pf tek is what I know already.  So many choices.  Regardless of what I do, I will getting some tasty mushrooms.


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OfflinePupenhause
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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: Pupenhause]
    #22487352 - 11/06/15 05:42 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Agar seems pretty straight forward, but if the pf tek is already a proven success for me, there's no reason for me not to try that first, then mess with agar later.


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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: Pupenhause]
    #22487362 - 11/06/15 05:43 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Look up eatyualive's slurry tek. I think it'll fit your needs perfectly


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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: azur]
    #22487390 - 11/06/15 05:46 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

azur said:
Look up eatyualive's slurry tek. I think it'll fit your needs perfectly



:fuckinawesome:


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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: Pupenhause]
    #22487419 - 11/06/15 05:51 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)



--------------------


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FALL IN LOVE WITH LC
FOTTSE!!!
ALL NOOBS READ THIS!!!



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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: Pupenhause]
    #22487500 - 11/06/15 06:01 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Pupenhause said:
Well damn it.  I could inoculate some pf jars and grain to grain transfer that, since pf tek is what I know already.  So many choices.  Regardless of what I do, I will getting some tasty mushrooms.





What worked for me was scraping the top layer of vermiculite off the top of the pf jar with a sterilized spoon, then dumping the cake out of the jar into a new ziploc bag.  Seal bag then crumble cake with your hands until it is in pieces no larger than a penny (makes for lots more inoculation points as opposed to large chunks).  Then use sterile spoon to scoop out portions of the crumbled cake into the quart jars and shake well.  I used micropore tape to cover the four holes i drilled into the tops of the quart jars.


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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: crackbaby]
    #22487764 - 11/06/15 06:51 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

....

Or you could use a couple TBS. of agar, 2-teaspoon potatoe flakes, 1/2C water and a drop of Karo or honey and make some plates to inoculate your grains. Cheaper, quicker, takes less space, less materials, and much higher success rate.

I just wanted to stress agar is easy to work with and for noobs to not feel intimated by it. I wish I had started agar way sooner than I did. It's like really easy. Especially PastyPlates...  :thumbup:


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InvisibleLocN9ne
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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: crackbaby]
    #22487803 - 11/06/15 07:00 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

crackbaby said:
Quote:

Pupenhause said:
Well damn it.  I could inoculate some pf jars and grain to grain transfer that, since pf tek is what I know already.  So many choices.  Regardless of what I do, I will getting some tasty mushrooms.





What worked for me was scraping the top layer of vermiculite off the top of the pf jar with a sterilized spoon, then dumping the cake out of the jar into a new ziploc bag.  Seal bag then crumble cake with your hands until it is in pieces no larger than a penny (makes for lots more inoculation points as opposed to large chunks).  Then use sterile spoon to scoop out portions of the crumbled cake into the quart jars and shake well.  I used micropore tape to cover the four holes i drilled into the tops of the quart jars.



Even doing this in a SAB I don't forsee a whole hell of a lot of success in your future.


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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: LocN9ne]
    #22487847 - 11/06/15 07:13 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

welp, i considered boiling the ziploc bag to sterilize it before dumping the cake into it, but read a post by roger rabbit where he described the relative sterility of a new ziploc, and that he's had successful cultivations inside them (btw, just to be clear the cake is crumbled inside the sealed bag by crushing it with fingers outside da bag :laugh:).  I lysoled the whole room before doing the transfer, and flame sterilized the spoon used for scooping.  Like i said, it worked fine for me, and with quart rye jars that had been sitting for 2 weeks (after failing to colonize from syringe inocculation)


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:awedance:




Edited by crackbaby (11/06/15 07:27 PM)


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OfflinePupenhause
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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: crackbaby]
    #22491015 - 11/07/15 02:01 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

So I got some stupid fancy pressure cooker, apparently it only goes up to 10psi.  Rather than 45 minutes, would an hour be better to make up the difference?


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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: Pupenhause]
    #22491037 - 11/07/15 02:05 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

standard time for 15psi is 90 minutes, I'd try >2 hours.


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OfflinePupenhause
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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: PsilocyBen17]
    #22491741 - 11/07/15 04:35 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

My thoughts.  There's all kinds of mixed reviews on here.  10psi for 2.5 hours probably wouldn't be a bad idea.  We shall see...


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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: Pupenhause]
    #22491798 - 11/07/15 04:46 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I hope it all works though.  I promised my wife this will be the last time, whether it works or not.  So I'm all in here


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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: Pupenhause]
    #22492547 - 11/07/15 07:13 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

There is no such thing as overkill when it comes to PCing. I used to think my grain would burn or dry out, but as long as there is water in the bottom of the PC during the cycle you are fine.


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OfflineFreeWorldOrder
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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: crackbaby]
    #22492559 - 11/07/15 07:17 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

crackbaby said:
welp, i considered boiling the ziploc bag to sterilize it before dumping the cake into it, but read a post by roger rabbit where he described the relative sterility of a new ziploc, and that he's had successful cultivations inside them (btw, just to be clear the cake is crumbled inside the sealed bag by crushing it with fingers outside da bag :laugh:).  I lysoled the whole room before doing the transfer, and flame sterilized the spoon used for scooping.  Like i said, it worked fine for me, and with quart rye jars that had been sitting for 2 weeks (after failing to colonize from syringe inocculation)




It's not the zip-lock that would be the problem if it is new. It is the fact that the dry verm layer acts as a filter and is probably full of contams. There is a super high probability of transferring said contams directly into your sterile grains... :shrug:


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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: FreeWorldOrder]
    #22492631 - 11/07/15 07:34 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

FreeWorldOrder said:
Quote:

crackbaby said:
welp, i considered boiling the ziploc bag to sterilize it before dumping the cake into it, but read a post by roger rabbit where he described the relative sterility of a new ziploc, and that he's had successful cultivations inside them (btw, just to be clear the cake is crumbled inside the sealed bag by crushing it with fingers outside da bag :laugh:).  I lysoled the whole room before doing the transfer, and flame sterilized the spoon used for scooping.  Like i said, it worked fine for me, and with quart rye jars that had been sitting for 2 weeks (after failing to colonize from syringe inocculation)




It's not the zip-lock that would be the problem if it is new. It is the fact that the dry verm layer acts as a filter and is probably full of contams. There is a super high probability of transferring said contams directly into your sterile grains... :shrug:



Quote:

FreeWorldOrder said:
Quote:

crackbaby said:
welp, i considered boiling the ziploc bag to sterilize it before dumping the cake into it, but read a post by roger rabbit where he described the relative sterility of a new ziploc, and that he's had successful cultivations inside them (btw, just to be clear the cake is crumbled inside the sealed bag by crushing it with fingers outside da bag :laugh:).  I lysoled the whole room before doing the transfer, and flame sterilized the spoon used for scooping.  Like i said, it worked fine for me, and with quart rye jars that had been sitting for 2 weeks (after failing to colonize from syringe inocculation)




It's not the zip-lock that would be the problem if it is new. It is the fact that the dry verm layer acts as a filter and is probably full of contams. There is a super high probability of transferring said contams directly into your sterile grains... :shrug:





Earlier in the thread I mentioned that i used a sterilized spoon to scrape da layer of vermiculite from the top of the pf jar (just to be clear, this was thrown into a separate container (aka garbage bag) ) :crazy2:


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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: crackbaby]
    #22493217 - 11/07/15 09:48 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Yea, no. Even if you ran the spoon thru a PC cycle (any other way is not sterilized) and scrape the verm layer off it will be no where clean enough to go into sterile grains.

The only way you would pull this off would be if you skipped the dry verm layer and used a grain jar GE filter. Since you cant break up a PF cake in the jar like rye you would have to wipe it down with ISO and hopefully pop it into a sterile zip lock and break up up by hand and then pour inti grain jars.
All this would have to be done following sterile tek and in a still air box.

It would be quite cumbersome and risky, not to mention pointless if you have a PC and therefore the means for grains


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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: mushpunx]
    #22493303 - 11/07/15 10:10 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mushpunx said:
Yea, no. Even if you ran the spoon thru a PC cycle (any other way is not sterilized) and scrape the verm layer off it will be no where clean enough to go into sterile grains.

The only way you would pull this off would be if you skipped the dry verm layer and used a grain jar GE filter. Since you cant break up a PF cake in the jar like rye you would have to wipe it down with ISO and hopefully pop it into a sterile zip lock and break up up by hand and then pour inti grain jars.
All this would have to be done following sterile tek and in a still air box.

It would be quite cumbersome and risky, not to mention pointless if you have a PC and therefore the means for grains





So after my brf jars are colonized it'll be risky to put it into a wbs jar, even if I pressure cook it?


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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: Pupenhause]
    #22493807 - 11/08/15 01:03 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Yea absoluetly. Especially of you used a dry verm layer no way would. t be clean enough.

If you can do grains then you should inoculate agar and use a clean culture to inoculate your grains.  Thats a clean enough grain master for G2G.

Agar is easy. Check out Pasty Plates to start


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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: mushpunx]
    #22494718 - 11/08/15 08:42 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Well my brf jars are ready to go.  My plan was to use wbs so I'll use at least one jar n take the risk.  If it doesn't work, oh well.


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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: Pupenhause]
    #22494750 - 11/08/15 08:49 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

:goodluck:


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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: mushpunx]
    #22495243 - 11/08/15 11:20 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mushpunx said:
Yea, no. Even if you ran the spoon thru a PC cycle (any other way is not sterilized) and scrape the verm layer off it will be no where clean enough to go into sterile grains.

The only way you would pull this off would be if you skipped the dry verm layer and used a grain jar GE filter. Since you cant break up a PF cake in the jar like rye you would have to wipe it down with ISO and hopefully pop it into a sterile zip lock and break up up by hand and then pour inti grain jars.
All this would have to be done following sterile tek and in a still air box.

It would be quite cumbersome and risky, not to mention pointless if you have a PC and therefore the means for grains





All i can say is that it worked for me, and i'm currently getting my first flush from the cased rye jars that were knocked up from the pf cake...And this was done without a still air box.  The spoon was flame sterilized with denatured alcohol btw, and the top layer of vermiculite was thoroughly scraped off before popping the cake into the bag.  The results speak for themselves, and i think this is a good way to knock up grain jars if it's not convenient to learn the whole agar tek


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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: crackbaby]
    #22495248 - 11/08/15 11:22 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I plan on using a still air box.  I assume all liabilities though.


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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: Pupenhause]
    #22495275 - 11/08/15 11:30 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

good luck mang :smile:


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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: crackbaby]
    #22496308 - 11/08/15 03:43 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Not to be a dick but dumb luck man. I don't doubt it could work but it's not very repeatable, scraping dry verm layer and G2G cakes in open air


Why G2G that at all? Why not spawn those cakes to bulk substrate instead much better chance of good sucess


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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: mushpunx]
    #22496493 - 11/08/15 04:22 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Well that was in the back of my mind, as I've done it before with 100%.success,  but I was under the impression th wbs would have more nutrients, therefore producing better yields and potentcy?


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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: Pupenhause]
    #22496497 - 11/08/15 04:22 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Also, even in a still air box you're saying it's a good potential for failure?


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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: Pupenhause]
    #22496591 - 11/08/15 04:39 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20410651#20410651

Here's a link to a thread that might be helpful regarding doing g2g with pf cakes.


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Re: Gettin back into it... [Re: Pupenhause]
    #22496911 - 11/08/15 05:36 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Pupenhause said:
Also, even in a stinll air box you're saying it's a good potential for failure?





Im saying most of us have a hard enough time with G2G from sterile grain masters inoculated with clean agar wedges


There isn't even any point to use a still air box if you are scraping off a nasty dry verm layer full of contaminants. Might as well do that in open air its such a roll of the dice. That is the biggest problem.


If you skip the dry verm layer and use a GE filter lid instead its difficult but a little more plausible.
Still the trouble is that since you cant crumble up a PF cake by shaking the jar like you do with a grain jar.
Popping the cake into the zip lock without knocking any contams from the outside of the jar in too is the next biggest problem.

In G2G even if you wipe the master jar down with ISO thoroughly if you move any part of the outside of the jar over the top of the reciving jar you can knock contams in.


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