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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: Oat prep quick question [Re: Mad Season]
#22486199 - 11/06/15 01:41 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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You provided no evidence.
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Srirachi
Mold Hand



Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 11,411
Loc: Fare Thee Well.
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Re: Oat prep quick question [Re: Mad Season]
#22486217 - 11/06/15 01:45 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Aerobic/anaerobic isn't as much a factor as nutes/no nutes in forming endospores... and, it takes several hours for endospores to form. They activate in minutes once favorable conditions return... so I'm inclined to believe azur is right.
What you're seeing in Bod's pic there is proof that there are low nutes in the slide. The presence or lack of O2 isn't the determining factor there IMO.
I used to not soak oats, and started having problems with a particular batch, that were eliminated by a presoak of about 12 hours. I've soaked grain as long as 36 hours, until it looked like it was boiling from all the fermentation going on, and those grains worked just fine with a 90 min. run at whatever 2 quarters on top of my PC weight equals.
When endospore counts in grain are average, the hydration probably activates enough of them to get the grain 'sterile enough'. When it's higher, not so much.
Based on my experience with thousands of pounds of oats, the technique I use now is this:
Soak 8 quarts of dry oats in 3 gallons of water and 1/2c. gypsum for 12-24 hrs.
In the same water, boil the oats for 22-24 minutes and dump into straining device.
Strain for 10 min, load bags and PC for 2.5 to 3 hrs. depending on how packed the PC is.
For jars I only PC for 90 min. As I mentioned my PC is rigged to go over 15PSI, probably not much though. I think it's around 17PSI based on the safety plug rating.
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Kalistis


Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 2,265
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Re: Oat prep quick question [Re: Srirachi]
#22486897 - 11/06/15 04:04 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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I would be happy to look for endospores in my next batch of oats after boil and after PC. But I usually don't soak, just boil. I could run one batch of soaked oats just for shits and giggles too following same QC protocol.
I don't enjoy soaking. But I will if I must, in the name of science.
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Psilosoulful

Registered: 09/05/14
Posts: 7,205
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: Oat prep quick question [Re: Srirachi]
#22487005 - 11/06/15 04:25 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Srirachi said:
Based on my experience with thousands of pounds of oats, the technique I use now is this:
Soak 8 quarts of dry oats in 3 gallons of water and 1/2c. gypsum for 12-24 hrs.
In the same water, boil the oats for 22-24 minutes and dump into straining device.
Strain for 10 min, load bags and PC for 2.5 to 3 hrs. depending on how packed the PC is.
For jars I only PC for 90 min. As I mentioned my PC is rigged to go over 15PSI, probably not much though. I think it's around 17PSI based on the safety plug rating.
 I've heard that a 45 minute boil is best to hydrate the center of the grains fully. How do you know when your grains are done? I never really know what to look for
Edited by Psilosoulful (11/06/15 05:15 PM)
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Yeah.. Definitely going to try soaking again, and see what my results are. Seriously this hobby is so back and forth lolol..
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: Oat prep quick question [Re: Mad Season]
#22487198 - 11/06/15 05:09 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mad Season said: Yeah.. Definitely going to try soaking again, and see what my results are. Seriously this hobby is so back and forth lolol..
Ha ha
Kalistis, why do you hate to soak? It takes 2 min and adds no wait when you're on a cycle.
You're not soaking to hydrate. We just covered this. Another poster put up a pic of oats. That's what they should look like.
Recap. Though usually soaking may not be necessary, it's a good precaution if you get a batch of grain that has a high bacterial endospore count. And you won't know if it does until it fucks you. So put the rubber on and be safe.
Ha ha. I don't wear rubbers, but i soak grain.
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Psilosoulful,this was meant for you. You're not soaking to hydrate. We just covered this. Another poster put up a pic of oats. That's what they should look like.
Here are a few pics i took yesterday
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Psilosoulful

Registered: 09/05/14
Posts: 7,205
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: Oat prep quick question [Re: azur]
#22487248 - 11/06/15 05:18 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
azur said: You're not soaking to hydrate. We just covered this. Another poster put up a pic of oats. That's what they should look like.
I know, I edited my last post. 
Quote:
azur said: So put the rubber on and be safe.
Ha ha. I don't wear rubbers, but i soak grain.
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Kalistis


Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 2,265
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I get why we soak. I guess My first 2 runs of oats went so well without soaking that I have a hard time adding in another step. My firs jars were WBS and I soaked for 18 hours. They stunk! I think it left a bad smell in my nose and taste in my mouth. The jars also performed well.
So if I have issues with my grains then I consider my process and wonder what I can improve on... I'm not saying you are wrong. Just that oats are really forgiving.
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Edited by Kalistis (11/06/15 06:14 PM)
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LocN9ne
ɢᄋᄋd ԲᄋЯ ᄁᄋȚᅢΙᄁɢ ᄂᄋ₩ᄂΙԲᄐ



Registered: 04/17/15
Posts: 7,076
Loc: to the brain
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Re: Oat prep quick question [Re: Kalistis]
#22487580 - 11/06/15 06:16 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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I soak, purely because I add gypsum and coffee.
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Q&A US vs. THEM The more I learn, the less I know.
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Kalistis


Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 2,265
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Re: Oat prep quick question [Re: LocN9ne]
#22487691 - 11/06/15 06:37 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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I add gypsum during boil. No coffee. Sounds tasty though.
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LocN9ne
ɢᄋᄋd ԲᄋЯ ᄁᄋȚᅢΙᄁɢ ᄂᄋ₩ᄂΙԲᄐ



Registered: 04/17/15
Posts: 7,076
Loc: to the brain
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Re: Oat prep quick question [Re: Kalistis]
#22487742 - 11/06/15 06:47 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kalistis said: I add gypsum during boil. No coffee. Sounds tasty though.
It's strangely satisfying to use coffee from a spent French press full of grounds... I guess it's a feeling of pride in finding another productive use of what normally is considered a waste product.
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Q&A US vs. THEM The more I learn, the less I know.
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Psilosoulful

Registered: 09/05/14
Posts: 7,205
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: Oat prep quick question [Re: LocN9ne]
#22489432 - 11/07/15 07:38 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
LocN9ne said:
Quote:
Kalistis said: I add gypsum during boil. No coffee. Sounds tasty though.
It's strangely satisfying to use coffee from a spent French press full of grounds... I guess it's a feeling of pride in finding another productive use of what normally is considered a waste product.
That's soo true tho  Do you add like half a cup per batch? I'm sure adding a couple of cups won't be a problem, as it would just be extra nutrients for the grains to absorb during boiling.
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iSmkGrnBud
Psychonaut



Registered: 10/28/11
Posts: 891
Loc: Your subconscious
Last seen: 11 days, 4 hours
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I usually add in about 3-5 cups of brewed coffee when I soak, but I tend to soak a lot of grains at once. Just make sure if you're adding coffee made from spent grounds. Unless properly pasteurized, fresh coffee grounds have a chance of bringing in nasty molds, why it's always easier to just use spent grounds.
-------------------- iSmkGrnBud's Teks iSmkGrnBud's Wild Mushroom Finds  The Noob Forum's List of Teks “The probability of success is difficult to estimate; but if we never search the chance of success is zero.” -Giuseppe Cocconi
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Psilosoulful

Registered: 09/05/14
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Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: Oat prep quick question [Re: iSmkGrnBud]
#22490004 - 11/07/15 10:16 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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 Do you squeeze out the spent coffee grounds at all before adding it? I've heard people bringing it to field capacity first, and others say it should be dried out for a couple of days.
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iSmkGrnBud
Psychonaut



Registered: 10/28/11
Posts: 891
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Quote:
Psilosoulful said:
 Do you squeeze out the spent coffee grounds at all before adding it? I've heard people bringing it to field capacity first, and others say it should be dried out for a couple of days.
I usually will just use the actual liquid coffee in with my soak, hence the 3-5 cups. The brew pretty much starts pasteurizing/sterilizing the grounds for you, that's why you always use spent grounds. I just personally don't like to use actual grounds, they don't always rinse off and make your jars look dirty. Coffee/grounds should both have desired nitrogen levels.
-------------------- iSmkGrnBud's Teks iSmkGrnBud's Wild Mushroom Finds  The Noob Forum's List of Teks “The probability of success is difficult to estimate; but if we never search the chance of success is zero.” -Giuseppe Cocconi
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Psilosoulful

Registered: 09/05/14
Posts: 7,205
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Re: Oat prep quick question [Re: iSmkGrnBud]
#22490145 - 11/07/15 10:43 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
iSmkGrnBud said:
Quote:
Psilosoulful said:
 Do you squeeze out the spent coffee grounds at all before adding it? I've heard people bringing it to field capacity first, and others say it should be dried out for a couple of days.
I usually will just use the actual liquid coffee in with my soak, hence the 3-5 cups. The brew pretty much starts pasteurizing/sterilizing the grounds for you, that's why you always use spent grounds. I just personally don't like to use actual grounds, they don't always rinse off and make your jars look dirty. Coffee/grounds should both have desired nitrogen levels.
Cool maybe I'll brew some coffee right now and pour in a couple of cups. I'm soaking oats right now that I'll be boiling later on tonight. I think a 12 hour soak should be sufficient.
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FreeWorldOrder

Registered: 12/24/13
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Loc: Indiana, USA
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I've "re-ran" spent grains and used the weak coffee water....
Not sure how full strength coffee would work. I've read on here to use diluted.
Would be interesting to see how it works.
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iSmkGrnBud
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I usually will reuse my grounds from my coffee in the morning. If you're using fresh grounds, make it extremely extremely weak.
-------------------- iSmkGrnBud's Teks iSmkGrnBud's Wild Mushroom Finds  The Noob Forum's List of Teks “The probability of success is difficult to estimate; but if we never search the chance of success is zero.” -Giuseppe Cocconi
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