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Invisiblegeorge castanzaM
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Silver Morgan Silver Dollars Good Investment?
    #22477793 - 11/04/15 06:43 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)



I recently purchased Morgan Silver Dollars. they are absolutely beautiful to look at however I'm wondering if I did get a good deal as I bought them as an investment.

I paid about $8 over the melt price to purchase them.

So what do you guys think? Good deal, fair deal, or raw deal?
If you get a chance you would definitely pay $20 for an uncirculated Morgan even if the price of silver was $6

:costanza:
Here is some of what I have found...


Morgan Dollar Die Varieties (1878-1921)
Production of the standard silver dollar had ceased in 1873, but the Bland-Allison Act of 1878 mandated large purchases of silver specifically for the coining of this denomination. The designs of Assistant Engraver George T. Morgan were selected for the silver dollar of 1878 over those of the more senior chief engraver, William Barber - thus giving the coin its now-universal eponym, Morgan Dollar. This type features a laureate bust of Liberty on the obverse, her hair adorned with wheat, cotton and tobacco. The Morgan silver dollar's reverse is dominated by a heraldic eagle within a laurel wreath.
Aside from the annual series of proofs, Morgan Dollars found little favor among collectors in their own time. Some interest developed in the early decades of the 20th Century, but collectors had little incentive to save coins of such high face value that remained readily available from banks and the Treasury in uncirculated condition. It was not until formerly rare issues began to turn up in Treasury vaults that the collecting of Morgan Dollars by date and mint gained a widespread following. Suspension of silver dollar payments by the Treasury in 1964 only fueled this growing demand. Today, the Morgan Dollar series is perhaps the most popular in American numismatics, the general availability of many dates in high grades now furnishing an incentive to collect them. While a handful of dates are scarce and moderately expensive, and the 1895 Philadelphia issue is known only in proof, the series is otherwise easy to complete by date and mint.
The first Morgan Dollar die variety reference was published in 1964 but went largely ignored. The appearance of a comprehensive Morgan Dollar die variety book by Leroy Van Allen and A. George Mallis in 1971 created a market for certain die varieties that later appeared in the Red Book, and the VAM varieties book (an acronym for Van Allen/Mallis) has gone through several later editions. Supplemental Morgan Dollar die variety books by Jeff Oxman in partnership with either Michael Fey or Les Hartnett have isolated the more popular varieties and made their attribution much more exact. In addition to the eight-tailfeather and seven-over-eight tailfeather Morgan Dollar die varieties of 1878, the most highly sought die varieties are divided into two groups known respectively as the Top-100 and the Hot-50. Other useful Morgan Dollar die variety attribution references will be found below.
VAM varieties start anew with each date/mint combination, VAM-1 typically denoting a coin from "normal" dies. Recognizable varieties are then numbered sequentially for that particular date and mint (VAM-2, VAM-3), though certain minor varieties and die states have been labeled as VAM-1A, VAM-1B, etc.
NGC will attribute all 1878 8-tailfeather and 7/8-tailfeather varieties, Top-100 and Hot-50 varieties, as well as a handful of other select varieties by VAM variety numbers as detailed in the list below.
Access to the detailed pages of the Morgan dollar die varieties you see below is part of NGC Collectors Society membership. Die variety detail pages contain population information as well as NGC database images for available Morgan dollar varieties.
NGC also provides information on other dollar varieties:


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Silver Morgan Silver Dollars Good Investment? [Re: george castanza]
    #22477823 - 11/04/15 06:52 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

No, terrible investment.  They are only good for a total collapse which is unlikely.  There is a premium to buy, a cost to sell and storage is risky or expensive. 

That said, I have a few rolls.  I am more of a collector than an apocalyptic fear monger.  The idea of gold lust is real, when you hold it it intoxicates you and then you make irrational decisions.

The majority of advice on this subforum will be to horde silver because the majority of regulars here live in fear and have intense distrust.  I suggest considering their advice and also seeking advice elsewhere.

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-04-22/rich-buy-real-estate-poor-want-gold
http://theweek.com/articles/447609/why-poors-investment-choice-alarming


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Offlinethebug76
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Re: Silver Morgan Silver Dollars Good Investment? [Re: DieCommie]
    #22477835 - 11/04/15 06:55 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

The way they're selling out these silver and gold coins, I would guess precious metal values are going to plummet after the next election. Hopefully not though.


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Invisiblegeorge castanzaM
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Re: Silver Morgan Silver Dollars Good Investment? [Re: DieCommie]
    #22477859 - 11/04/15 07:00 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I forgot to mention that these coins are uncirculated.

I can't find any 1881 bu Morgans anywhere on the web at less than three times what I paid for these.

In the event that the silver market does crash I'm thinking that these coins will retain their value due to their collectability


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: Silver Morgan Silver Dollars Good Investment? [Re: george castanza]
    #22477872 - 11/04/15 07:03 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Yes, collectibles are better for downside protection.  But if silver goes up their collect-ability does not, collectibles are worse for maximizing gains.


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Silver Morgan Silver Dollars Good Investment? [Re: DieCommie]
    #22477893 - 11/04/15 07:08 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Also, I am real suspicious of uncirculated Morgans.  How well did you test them?  How do you know you don't have one of these?

http://wholesaler.alibaba.com/product-detail/1881-S-Morgan-Silver-One-Dollar_60104863156.html?spm=a2700.7724838.30.151.uHJZF6


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Invisiblegeorge castanzaM
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Re: Silver Morgan Silver Dollars Good Investment? [Re: DieCommie]
    #22477952 - 11/04/15 07:23 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I took them to the coin shop and the guy damn near tripped over himself to get to the register to get the money I was asking for them.

When I explained that I was buying them and wanted to know what a fair price would be he became very disappointed and told me to bring them back if I ever wanted to sell.

He also showed me a fake Morgan while I was there.

He used a magnetic slide to test them.

This coupled with the fact that they came out of a WWII vets safe to pay for some home remodeling leads me to feel very safe concerning their authenticity.

I'm actually debating on selling them and buying some maple leafs due to the considerations you mentioned.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: Silver Morgan Silver Dollars Good Investment? [Re: george castanza]
    #22478008 - 11/04/15 07:33 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Those fakes pass a magnetic test.  Hope you are right though! 

Personally, I would think an old WWII vet would be more likely to be scammed and holding fake coins.


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Invisiblegeorge castanzaM
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Re: Silver Morgan Silver Dollars Good Investment? [Re: DieCommie]
    #22478059 - 11/04/15 07:44 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I sure do too.

The other guy in the shop said he could tell they were real just by looking at them.

They sounded like real silver when u flip them.

O ya, a few of them had some nice toning as well.

Lol. Look at me, now I'm trying to convince myself.

I have no doubts that they are real.

I'm debating on selling one tube of them if I can get  $1200+ I would be tripling my investment.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: Silver Morgan Silver Dollars Good Investment? [Re: george castanza]
    #22478109 - 11/04/15 07:58 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

You're math seems odd...

Quote:

I paid about $8 over the melt price to purchase them.




$8 over the total spot of the coins?

Spot/melt for a morgan is 11.70.  (20 x 11.70) + 8 is $234.  So you paid $234 for these coins?  If so, that is a great deal.  Or $8 per coin over spot?  20 x 19.70 = $394, still a good deal.  The notion that you will get $1200 for them seems outlandish.  How do you plan to sell them when you do?


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Invisiblegeorge castanzaM
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Re: Silver Morgan Silver Dollars Good Investment? [Re: DieCommie]
    #22478199 - 11/04/15 08:21 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I paid $20 a coin.

Melt was about $12 the day I bought them.

Looking around the internet I haven't seen any 1881s BU for less than $60 each.

I have been doing quite a bit of research into Morgans these past couple weeks and have discovered that this particular year is the "Tombstone" year and perhaps that is why there are so few available even though there were 12.8 million of these particular coins issued.

I was having real trouble with your statement of this being a horrible investment. If you buy something for less than half of what you can sell it for I would think you have made a good investment, if not a great one.

As for selling them I will probably go eBay or amazon. Not completely sure yet. In order to get top dollar I will need to find an interested collector of course.

One website places the value of one coin at $175, I sure wouldn't mind selling a roll or two at that price! :smile:


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: Silver Morgan Silver Dollars Good Investment? [Re: george castanza]
    #22478287 - 11/04/15 08:45 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Looking around the internet I haven't seen any 1881s BU for less than $60 each.




But to do that you have to pay to create a website, do marketing, build trust, find a way to process payments and deal with customer service and scammers.  That is the cost of selling physical silver.  APMex and eBay sells uncirculated morgans for less than that.  Why would somebody go to your website and pay more when they could just go to APMex or eBay?

Quote:

As for selling them I will probably go eBay or amazon.




Ha, good luck bro.  :wink:  You might convince yourself you came out ahead if you neglect the time, effort, fees, scams and shipping.  I sell mine via craigslist.  Its a huge pain in the ass. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1881-U-S-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-S-San-Francisco-Uncirculated-/252147668000?hash=item3ab52c1420:g:1FgAAOSw5ZBWMmqZ
http://www.newlifeauctions.com/calc.html
Minus the time and effort, I would barley call that a wash.  And that is with you getting a one-time good deal that you had to find, go to a coin shop to verify and then go back and purchase.  That is expense in time (money) you have already incurred.


Its a bad investment.  What you are describing is not investing, it is speculating and flipping.  It has high cost and high risk.  Some people do it.  I think their time is not very valuable.... :shrug:


Edited by DieCommie (11/04/15 09:05 PM)


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Invisiblegeorge castanzaM
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Re: Silver Morgan Silver Dollars Good Investment? [Re: DieCommie]
    #22478688 - 11/04/15 10:17 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Lol.

You obviously have a negative outlook on this. I could easily sell these for profit and I have about an hour in verification of legitimacy.

Perhaps you don't know the difference between a good investment and a bad one. It is obvious you know very little about Morgan silvers.

I pretty sure the coin shop would go 30 each on them fairly easily, truth be told, I bought them to hold. But if I could sell a roll or two to keep the rest for free that would be a come up. I really don't need any cash at the moment tho, so I'll probably hold.

I was really looking/hoping someone in this forum had knowledge and/or experience dealing with Morgans and could tell me a little more about them. Obviously that is not you commie.

Maybe if we are lucky someone will drop a knowledge bomb into this thread.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Silver Morgan Silver Dollars Good Investment? [Re: george castanza]
    #22481485 - 11/05/15 03:05 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Hold On



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Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Silver Morgan Silver Dollars Good Investment? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #22489098 - 11/07/15 02:25 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Collectible coins and historic numismatics are in an entirely different market than investment grade bullion.  Collectible numismatics are much less liquid than bullion, it will take you much longer to sell numismatics than bullion.

personally i think there are much more interesting other collectibles to deal in if that is the market you are choosing.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Silver Morgan Silver Dollars Good Investment? [Re: Shins]
    #22489102 - 11/07/15 02:29 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I have bought and sold several morgans before.  Typcally dealers won't bid you all that big of a premium over spot, their buy/sell spreads are usually larger than bullion.


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Invisiblegeorge castanzaM
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Re: Silver Morgan Silver Dollars Good Investment? [Re: Shins]
    #22492212 - 11/07/15 05:58 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Yes. I have been educating myself quite a bit on the subject over the past couple of weeks.

What I have are considered raw coins.  This simply means that they have not been graded by a professional grading company.

I now see why my man was in such a rush to buy them @$20. One of these coins could be worth $60 as a lower grade uncirculated, however with higher grades prices go up exponentially. Also to get the best price for a coin not only does it need to be graded, but it also needs to be sold at auction to competitive bidders.

I kind of fell bass ackwards into these coins. I have a few 89 maples I bought a couple years ago, but I really didn't know how good of a deal I was getting so I just kept buying because it seems like these coins must be worth more than I'm paying.

I'm no coin expert by any means, but I have started examining these coins under a loupe and I can definitely tell a difference in the quality of strike. I'm getting my hopes up that I may have an ms67 in the stack somewhere.


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KRAMER CAKES




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