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OfflineMagmaManiac
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Florida Possible Armillaria etc
    #2247339 - 01/17/04 12:28 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Here is a group of mushrooms I found, among no other specimens dear a bush/small tree growing in a semicircle in  large clumps. I though Tricholomataceae, Cystoderma, Armillaria(iella), Squamosa.

I have been absent on The Shroomery for a long time because I have been terribly busy with school. I forgetten a bit about fungi but it has come back very quickly after I read a bit of Arora's book.

And again it is late, and I have more other things to do. But first of all, I need a good rest, I haven't been sleeping amply. So contrary to my normal proceedings, I will not leave a description, other than saying that there are small scales on the cap, almost like granules but not quite and the veil is cotonous underneath, and it is evanescent on probably most specimens and present on young and some older. The gills are adnexed to semi-decurrent. Spores are white, as whitnessed by a white wash of all the surrounding grass. The images are brightened and white-color corrected. They are lighter than they normally appear, but not extensively so. The stalk comes together in a bulbous mass that does not go deep or tuber like, hence not Squamosa. The "granules" aren't really granules so it may be not Cystoderma. I think this is an Armillaria sp. but I am not very experienced with that genus.

I was looking at A. tabescens (which has no annulus of course, contrary to this specimen) and A. bulbata (not sure on the species name, similar to A. melea). A. bulbata has a cottony veil. They are probably TERRESTRIAL, I looked for wood, even stuck my finger down a little and couldn't find any. They weren't close to the base of anything and far scattered around and not in wood chips. Possibly on ver rotted wood although I don't think so. There was also leaf and dirt matter stuck to the mycelium in a way that it looks that they are terrestrial. The base also does not get tough and hard like many wood-loving mushrooms. I must finish. For the rest, I think the pictures will do well. Let's see.


this image is not white-corrected. This patch of young specimens is lighter than the mature patch. There were several scattered patches and clumps of 2 or 3 and even singular mushrooms.




ugly bright, sorry




Thank you in advance Toxic  :blush: :grin:


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OfflineToxicManM
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Re: Florida Possible Armillaria etc [Re: MagmaManiac]
    #2247426 - 01/17/04 01:13 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Those look like Armillarias to me. To figure out which one, I'll refer you to this key that Tom Volk has kindly made available on teh Intarweb.

Happy mushrooming!


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Happy mushrooming!


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
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Re: Florida Possible Armillaria etc [Re: MagmaManiac]
    #2247725 - 01/17/04 04:30 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Oh yes, Armillarias for sure!


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OfflineMagmaManiac
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Re: Florida Possible Armillaria etc [Re: ToxicMan]
    #2248009 - 01/17/04 11:01 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Thank you for the key.

From the key, the closest match seem to be A. gallica. The veil is cotton-like to evanascent. It leaves a cotton-webby layer stuck from one stem to a cap of another mushroom, but never as extensively as the Humungous Fungus of Michigan. After reading about it, I remember picking the mushrooms and seeing their yellowish, sometimes greenish base. I read it described somewhere that sometimes the base of this species will stain yellow after picking.

The base is swollen, but the stipe is generally darker, even in the young specimens. More like red-brown to tan-brown to dark brown under the veil. Above the veil the stem is much lighter, white on some specimens. The mushrooms are growing directly on debris, a few little sticks, leaves and in black, sandy dirt. This would correlate with A. gallica also, as a usually TERRESTRIAL species.

Now, after breaking open one of the stipes, I have noticed that the flesh did stain light yellow. There are caked clumps of white spores attached to all parts of the fungi.

I would not say the stipe is "distinctly hairy," although it is somewhat hairy from veil remenants and coarsely textured.

There ARE little brownish scales on ALL the caps. In the center, they make the pileus feel almost grainy. In the larger, darker specimens, the scales are especially dark and dense in the center, although do not have that grainy feel and are more blunt. I thought my pictures would show this, but they were not good enough and I put the quality too low down.

A. mellea does not fit and a few other species also do not, because of the bulbous base. So I'm thinking A. gallica or A. bulbosa, the second being a relative of A. mellea and about which I cannot find much information except in Arora's book. "The second variety, on the other hand, has a hairier pinkish-brown to reddish-brown or dingy brown cap with a white cottony veil and frequently enlarged stem base. It grows scattered or in small tufts, often on the ground. This form, which is close to A. bulbosa (a European species), is especially confounding to beginners." This excerpt is listed under A. mellea.

Is this describing what would now be the New World A. gallica?

What do you think of those diagnoses?


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OfflineMagmaManiac
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Re: Florida Possible Armillaria etc [Re: MagmaManiac]
    #2249481 - 01/18/04 01:10 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Hellooo. Here is a picture of very neat non-Armillaria-resembling Armillria growing singular next to a clump. This group of mushrooms is large probably spanning about 5-6 yards across with huge clumps in a semicircle around a palm tree and cut off by a sidewalk.



Input will be beautifully appreciated. Good night.


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OfflineMagmaManiac
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Re: Florida Possible Armillaria etc [Re: MagmaManiac]
    #2250379 - 01/18/04 01:52 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

There has certainly not been a lot of traffic on the shroomery these past couple of days. I remember half a year ago, when in the course of a day there would be  multiple replies to 15 different threads. I guess its too cold in too many places for people to worry about mushrooms.

One thing I have noticed is that the spore print is light yellow when it is very thick. I see that is what Mj was talking about. I tried a dime-sized portion last night and it was quite sour-tasting in the back of my mouth, like acid, but different from other mushrooms. It wasn't really unpleasant. Something like squirting a bit too much lemon on a sandwich with sardines or on smoked salmon. Otherwise, it was slightly bitter and had an original taste.

Many mushrooms outside of the deformed semi circle or 2/3 circle maybe grow singular or in small 2-5 mushroom clumps. All of the mushrooms have short stalk, no longer than about 5 cm, usually 3-4. When not in large 10+ specimen clumps, the stipes tend to be thicker and all of the mushrooms have a yellow coloration with greenish tints near the base. They look very cool. The larger specimens look like Lepista sp. from a few feet, mmm.

And so you can comment and opinionate now.  :thumbup: :smirk:


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Florida Possible Armillaria etc [Re: MagmaManiac]
    #2250435 - 01/18/04 02:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

very neat non-Armillaria-resembling Armillria



Of course, it is arguable if one mushroom resembles another; if one looks deep enough into it, even most 'lookalikes' differ too much to use the term 'lookalikes'...Personally, I don't think I'd mistake the mushroom you posted for an Armillaria easily.

Quote:

I guess its too cold in too many places for people to worry about mushrooms.



Indeed, it's just not the season 'round here for mushrooms :frown: I think that explains the lack of activity on this forum. I hope the situation improves as soon as spring arrives...


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OfflineToxicManM
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Re: Florida Possible Armillaria etc [Re: MagmaManiac]
    #2251345 - 01/18/04 10:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Sorry I couldn't get back sooner... busy weekend.

I'm also leaning toward Armillaria gallica. Dr Burdsall and Dr Volk seem to not mention A. bulbosa, which suggests to me that they think the species either doesn't exist in North America or that it's actually a synonym for one of the species they do mention.

You didn't try eating any raw, did you? Armillarias are the edible mushrooms responsible for more poisonings than any others. Most authorities seem to think that most of those poisonings are due to people eating raw or undercooked mushrooms. Be sure you cook them thoroughly!

The thick stem is certainly not something I see normally. On the other hand, almost all Honey Mushrooms here in Colorado are Armillaria ostoyae.

If you want an authoritative opinion on them, you could try contacting Dr. Volk. He has an email address on his website.

Happy mushrooming!


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OfflineMagmaManiac
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Re: Florida Possible Armillaria etc [Re: ToxicMan]
    #2272647 - 01/25/04 09:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks toxic. I've had a terribly busy week and haven't had time to respond. I don't think I have time to contact Dr. Volk, but thank you. I did try a piece of the mushroom. Thanks for the warning. I tried a piece that was about the size of a dime. I don't think Armillarias have any poisonous compounds that break down in high temperatures? I would think that the "poisonings" come from gastrointestinal upset because they tend to be tough mushrooms? Tell me if I'm wrong. From what I remember, I think in Poland the caps of A. mellea are eaten after being simply pickled. Although, I never went to summer during the late fall season in which they usually grow in huge numbers.

I've seen from at least one source and I think more that there are no Armillarias that are poisonous. I ate a small quantity being sure it was an Armillaria and being sure it was A. gallica or A. bulbata "complex," or whatever the latter could be called in the U.S. I was thinking about harvesting them and making some sauteed mushroom sauce from them after I was sure of the species, but I had no time, and it rained for two days, deteriorating many of the larger specimens. I also want to gain some experience with Armillarias before eating them. Thank for the concern though toxic  :blush:, I'll heed your warning on Armillarias. Whenever someone says something like "you didn't eat those did you" or mentions mushroom poisoning and the possibilty etc. I get nervous and question myself and become self-concious and gastro-concious, even if I know or knew there is no doubt on my ID. I feel my stomach tightening up. But I guess thats the correct, natural, defensive reaction.

And koraks, I don't understand what you wrote on the first part about the Armillarias. The last few words confuse me. Do you simply mean that you couldn't tell they are Armillarias, or something else?  :crazy2:

Bye and more  :heart:


Edited by MagmaManiac (01/25/04 09:39 PM)


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Florida Possible Armillaria etc [Re: MagmaManiac]
    #2275100 - 01/26/04 05:39 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Do you simply mean that you couldn't tell they are Armillarias, or something else?




Nah, I meant that personally, I wouldn't mistake them for Armillarias as that's one of the genera I've become quite familiar with last spring. They occur here in great numbers and verious species too, and the pic you posted just doesn't ring the Armillaria-bell with me :wink:
So I wouldn't mistake them for Armillaria because they just don't fit my mental picture (including all variations) of Armillaria species I know of. Get it? :smile:
In plain English: That shroom just don't look like a honey mushroom to me!

Quote:

I would think that the "poisonings" come from gastrointestinal upset because they tend to be tough mushrooms?




No, I don't believe that's the case. I believe it's more like an allergic reaction to one of the compounds in the mushrooms that some people have and others, well, don't :smile:
One thing is sure: cook them well before you eat them. I doubt this has anything to do with the consistency of the flesh, but more with certain compounds being transformed into different (harmless) ones through the influence of heat.


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InvisibleGGreatOne234
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Re: Florida Possible Armillaria etc [Re: MagmaManiac]
    #2277369 - 01/27/04 12:55 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Magma, I (personally) would not eat those.

If you do, be sure to parboil them first!~

Keep shroomin,
GG


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Amazon Shop for: Scales

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