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Byrain

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 9,664
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Re: Web page hosting from a old comp at home [Re: micro]
#22482444 - 11/05/15 06:46 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Took me all of five minutes to write a reply to you, that does not imply caring very much. Maybe I should of specified system logs, I've never actually used a database before due to lack of need and would not have immediately thought of MySQL/MariaDB. Though hearing about binary logs just makes me want to use them even less now. Adding repositories does not fix the packaging issue with debian not by a long shot, neither does upgrading to sid, unstable still has bloody old software, just its more prone to shitting itself. I'd rather just make my own slackbuilds for the few programs no one else has gotten to yet and altering a package build to get a newer version or different build flags is really easy and good way to start learning to write shell script. As for debian caring about free software, its kind of funny since they can't even get approved by the fsf (Neither is slackware, not that they ever tried and there is [url=http://freeslack.net/]freeslack]/url] for those that insist on free software.) Can you elaborate on "force flag"? I'm not familiar with it and googling does not really seem to provide anything relevant. The slackware packaging tools I use are slackpkg for easily maintaining official packages distributed as binaries and then a combination of installpkg, upgradepkg, removepkg and makepkg which are extremely simple and reliable tools for installing, upgrading, removing packages and making packages which in slackware are just tarballs. A slackbuild will compile a program in a fake root dir in /tmp/SBo (By default) and then makepkg will tar it up into a package which can be installed with installpkg which will make a text based file in /var/log/packages/$PRGNAM-$VERSION that keeps track of the contents of each package so that they can be easily removed or upgraded. It by design makes very little assumptions about what a user will want to do and is as simple as can be, they are all shell scripts. As you said as a feature they do not keep track of dependencies, leaving that responsibility to the user, this makes it so that you will never have the package manager stuck because it can't remove or upgrade a package nor will you ever see it try to remove the entire os when you try to remove something such as xchat or terminator (I have seen both with apt-get). Instead if you miss a dependency the package will fail to compile or just not work, usually with an error message telling you exactly what you need to get past the issue. The slackware communities are usually pretty good about helping anyone that is stuck, willing to ask nicely and show some initiative to trying to understand what is going wrong. Lastly, ofc there are various third party packaging tools that will handle dependencies if that is what you really want, like sbopkg, slapt-get, slpkg, etc.
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Byrain

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 9,664
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Re: Web page hosting from a old comp at home [Re: Sun King]
#22482477 - 11/05/15 06:52 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sun King said: How come no one suggested windows iis?
Because windows is functionally and ethically garbage that only will hold the op back from learning.
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Wunnbaddmofo
Vagabond
Registered: 11/02/15
Posts: 94
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Web page hosting from a old comp at home [Re: Byrain]
#22482743 - 11/05/15 07:42 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Ok ,I still wouldnt know where to begin "compiling a custom kernel" However I would like to have a set up where if six months down the road, when the site is up and running, I have the option to do so. I am not opposed to learning the most technical, difficult way to do it, eventually.
I basically want something easy to set up now, something for beginners, that has the capability to do whatever I want it to as I learn more about the technology.
Someone mentioned windows 8 iis. This is something I heard about but haven't researched. I wouldnt mind looking into it, Im just afraid I dont have an old machine capable of running win 8.1
-------------------- Deo Vindici God Save the South
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Byrain

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 9,664
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Re: Web page hosting from a old comp at home [Re: Wunnbaddmofo]
#22482820 - 11/05/15 08:01 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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You don't need to know how compile a kernel for your own os for what you currently want to learn. All you need is to decide what os, make an installation disc and and then follow the installation instructions for the os, honestly Slackware is likely a great distro for your legacy hardware. You can also investigate BSD unix (Not GNU/Linux), check out freebsd and openbsd for those.
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Wunnbaddmofo
Vagabond
Registered: 11/02/15
Posts: 94
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Web page hosting from a old comp at home [Re: Byrain]
#22482934 - 11/05/15 08:24 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Byrain said: You don't need to know how compile a kernel for your own os for what you currently want to learn. All you need is to decide what os, make an installation disc and and then follow the installation instructions for the os, honestly Slackware is likely a great distro for your legacy hardware. You can also investigate BSD unix (Not GNU/Linux), check out freebsd and openbsd for those.
Ok, so in your opinion, those options are better than Ubuntu and lamp ?
-------------------- Deo Vindici God Save the South
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micro
bunbun has a gungun



Registered: 05/09/03
Posts: 7,532
Loc: Brick City
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Re: Web page hosting from a old comp at home [Re: Jean-Luc Picard]
#22483130 - 11/05/15 09:00 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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agmotes165 said: Good comment, you seem like a mature fellow who is willing to accept constructive feedback. Yep, no insecurities or ego here 
Your refusal to answer that confirms I was right, yet again.
Quote:
If that is the case, then perhaps you should refrain from offering advice to people. I don't doubt that you are probably the most qualified person on the OP's topic, but your lack of ability to properly communicate said knowledge (or even form complete sentences) makes you a source of disinformation, as the majority of users that read your original sentence will misinterpret its meaning. Its as simple as that. I'm not trying to insult you, rather I'm trying to point out that you are misleading people with poorly-worded advice, and subsequently being a dick to others when they point it out. 
I'm just defending my position. Why are you and your boyfriend getting so hostile?
If you can't take criticism GTFO the internet.
At least I have the balls to admit when I'm wrong.
He makes an assumption, was wrong about it and now you and he are desperately trying to prove you were right, even though there is no logical way to do that. gg
Pull your head out of his ass for just a second so you can see the sun shine :V
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Yes, this is my point. Anyone who assumes this interpretation is indeed making an assumption about what you are saying, because you did not supply enough information for anyone to do otherwise.
If you don't think there is enough information, then idunno... ASK?
You didn't do this and instead made an assumption (or rather are backing up your boyfriend in his assumption) trying to prove it was right and resort to childish name-calling instead of saying "oh gee Ricky, you're right. I didn't understand what you meant. Maybe I should have asked." You are trying to tell me how I should have worded my statement which was wrong as well, and still only continue to operate under the assumption that you two are infallible. Love can make us do crazy things, but don't let it replace common sense. That's just being delusional.
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That is true, but since you seem to be moderately intelligent in a general sense, highly qualified in the OPs topic, and have made it clear in previous threads that you are several decades old at the very least...that you would be mature enough to realize that your wording was misinterpreted, and elaborate/discuss the issue without spewing your over-inflated ego all over the thread and aggravating the situation with sarcasm and condescension... Additionally, with such a blatantly emasculating question at the top of your post...its seems like you of all people would be the first to man up and act like an adult in such a situation.
Jesus fucking Christ. Right back at 'ya?
I haven't been more hostile or sarcastic than either of you two loons.
The only difference is I was actually correct.
He was proven wrong, blew up and then cried to his boyfriend to save him.
You are only confusing the poor OP with all this childish garbage.
Also, stop telling him to use Slackware. That is the absolute WORST advice for someone who is starting out.
Find some common sense. (hint: it's not in his pants)
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What a coincidence, writing procedures for nuclear power blah, blah, more irrelevant and incoherent drivel
What a surprise.
Your boyfriend made an assumption and was wrong about it.
Since neither of you can be rational and even admit that there isn't a point to continuing this.
-------------------- Any research paper or book for free (Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)
Edited by micro (11/05/15 09:53 PM)
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micro
bunbun has a gungun



Registered: 05/09/03
Posts: 7,532
Loc: Brick City
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Re: Web page hosting from a old comp at home [Re: Byrain]
#22483294 - 11/05/15 09:32 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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OP - I'm going to refrain from commenting anymore to those two lovebirds since it is confusing the hell out of things.
If you really want, use Linux.
Don't use Slackware to start out and don't compile your own custom kernel.
Once you can install a type of Linux that has a reasonable package manager and get it to work those are an option. You don't want to set yourself up for failure on your first try and I'd take the shortest path possible within your ability. Since you are new to servers and Linux I'd recommend stopping there and just seeing if it works, otherwise you'll have too many variables to know where it went wrong. Debian will work, Ubuntu will work, CentOS will work... Any of the major distributions. Those will have the most software available to install through the package manager. I haven't used Linux Tail so I don't know anything about it. (edit: and I can't even find it in a search)
The package manager is easy to use in these; for Debian/Ubuntu just type in a terminal (the command prompt):
> apt-cache search httpd
for example; this will search and list all of the packages that have httpd (the Apache web server). You could also search for Apache web server, etc. When you find the package name type:
> apt-get install package_name
... and that is it. If you decide to use Debian and go through the text installation, it will give you the option to install a server and will give you all of the programs you need by default and configure them for you.
Regarding a LAMP stack -- those have nothing to do with it. He is still trying to recommend more distros that aren't Debian and confusing things even more. It doesn't matter what distro you use, but I would make sure it has a decent package manager and GUI to start out and if you stick to the popular distros you'll have more software available to install immediately. Debian, Ubuntu and CentOS are among the most popular distros that fall into that category. Linux Mint is up there as well.
If you do this, you can install a LAMP stack (Linux, Apache, MySQL and PHP) and have it configure things for you.
I would get the flat site working first, even if it is just an HTML page that says "Hello, World." Make sure you can access it via IP from a machine not on that network. Then once that is working you can move on to the rest of it. If you do too much at once, again -- you are creating too many variables when you need to troubleshoot you won't know where to start.
I'm not a huge fan of PHP for many reasons but it is probably easier to start out with that or Ruby on Rails or Python/Django rather than something like Java with a much steeper learning curve.
I'd take it one step at a time though.
-------------------- Any research paper or book for free (Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)
Edited by micro (11/05/15 10:59 PM)
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
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Re: Web page hosting from a old comp at home [Re: Wunnbaddmofo]
#22484298 - 11/06/15 02:01 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Wunnbaddmofo said: Ok, so in your opinion, those options are better than Ubuntu and lamp ?
In my opinion, no. Not better or worse. Ubuntu is fine; if you want something more lightweight and still very user friendly, consider xubuntu. Slackware is also fine. Due to the loads of online help and information, I would personally prefer Linux to bsd, but either will work. Even windows iis will work just fine, but why opt for software you need to buy or steal instead of something you can use legally for free?
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Sun King



Registered: 02/15/14
Posts: 4,069
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Re: Web page hosting from a old comp at home [Re: Wunnbaddmofo]
#22484594 - 11/06/15 06:38 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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If you want to keep it simple, you can load apache or WAMP on XP. Then you wouldn't need to learn linux.
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Jean-Luc Picard
I only wish i was this good!



Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 4,178
Loc: New Mexico, USA
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Re: Web page hosting from a old comp at home [Re: micro]
#22484709 - 11/06/15 07:26 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Obviously any feedback given will be met with anger, sarcasm, and a strange fixation on homosexuality. I'll leave this issue alone.
It's truly sad to see intelligent people refusing to consider the fact that they might be wrong, even worse when they claim that they are 100% correct in all things...that is the absolute worst mistake that any moderately intelligent person can make.
But then again, I'm not really sure what I was expecting from semi-anonymous people on the internet. 
I have nothing further to add to this discussion, my apologies to the OP for breaking the thread up into multiple conversations.
-------------------- The universe is under no obligation to make sense to you - NDT
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Byrain

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 9,664
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Re: Web page hosting from a old comp at home [Re: koraks]
#22484918 - 11/06/15 08:40 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
koraks said:
Quote:
Wunnbaddmofo said: Ok, so in your opinion, those options are better than Ubuntu and lamp ?
In my opinion, no. Not better or worse. Ubuntu is fine; if you want something more lightweight and still very user friendly, consider xubuntu. Slackware is also fine. Due to the loads of online help and information, I would personally prefer Linux to bsd, but either will work. Even windows iis will work just fine, but why opt for software you need to buy or steal instead of something you can use legally for free?
Honestly, ubuntu based is about the worst thing you can suggest next to debian or redhat. Say what you want about systemd, but its a piss poor solution for any server based os and ubuntu is a pretty terrible os for other uses too. Not to mention they ship spyware out of the box, has the you will need to reinstall every 6 months problem to make it more comfortable for windows users and is a horrible choice for legacy hardware which the op has. With all do honesty, the only major GNU/Linux distro left that is worth using is Slackware, anything else is more niche or will have less of a soft landing (Gentoo, Sourcemage, Crux, etc.).
Also, @ micro, LOL, you really are bad at this. You should probably refrain for offering advice when you are not even capable of being coherent let alone offering anything that will help the op.
Edited by Byrain (11/06/15 08:47 AM)
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
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Re: Web page hosting from a old comp at home [Re: Byrain]
#22485347 - 11/06/15 10:23 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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I've been running the same Ubuntu install for about 2 years now on my desktop at home. I don't use it as a server, but I use it several times a dat and I have no idea why I'd have to reinstall it every 6 months. Apparently it's not all as bad as you believe it is. I'd still recommend it, especially for a novice Linux user with very basic server requirements.
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Wunnbaddmofo
Vagabond
Registered: 11/02/15
Posts: 94
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Web page hosting from a old comp at home [Re: Sun King]
#22485736 - 11/06/15 11:40 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Ok. So after attempting to install Ubuntu onto the machine I want to use,I was basically met with error messages. It allows me to use it as a live cd, but when I try to install desktop it gives me a string of error codes and hangs on the loading screen. So....since the machine is already running XPro, I will be using wampserver. Thanks for mentioning it, because I hadn't yet heard of it. So I am about to download it and start reading up on it. Leaving windows on the server will make it easier for me to administer it remotely I assume ? I know as far as some of you are concerned, that windows is the devil. But as soon as find an acceptable machine for sale cheap, I will be upgrading to that and installing something else. Im sure that I will need some advice on setting things up after I download wampserver though.
-------------------- Deo Vindici God Save the South
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Sun King



Registered: 02/15/14
Posts: 4,069
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Re: Web page hosting from a old comp at home [Re: Wunnbaddmofo]
#22486031 - 11/06/15 12:52 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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I used wamp in my php class. It works.
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Wunnbaddmofo
Vagabond

Registered: 11/02/15
Posts: 94
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Web page hosting from a old comp at home [Re: Sun King]
#22486356 - 11/06/15 02:17 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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I know this is off topic, but real quick, does this site have a research chemical thread ? If so I cant find it...
-------------------- Deo Vindici God Save the South
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
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Re: Web page hosting from a old comp at home [Re: Wunnbaddmofo]
#22486373 - 11/06/15 02:19 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Probably a couple of hundred.
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Wunnbaddmofo
Vagabond

Registered: 11/02/15
Posts: 94
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Web page hosting from a old comp at home [Re: koraks]
#22486403 - 11/06/15 02:25 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Sorry , I guess I meant an area where those threads would be organized. I cant find anything relevant and recent using the search....
So. the newest version of wampserver isn't compatible with win xp. Any idea how old I have to go for a version that is ?
-------------------- Deo Vindici God Save the South
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Wunnbaddmofo
Vagabond

Registered: 11/02/15
Posts: 94
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Web page hosting from a old comp at home [Re: Wunnbaddmofo]
#22488508 - 11/06/15 09:46 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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5 shrooms to u all. If I missed you please msg me or comment and let me know. I want to rate everyone that offered advice.
-------------------- Deo Vindici God Save the South
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micro
bunbun has a gungun



Registered: 05/09/03
Posts: 7,532
Loc: Brick City
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Re: Web page hosting from a old comp at home [Re: Wunnbaddmofo]
#22488688 - 11/06/15 10:36 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
koraks said: Slackware is also fine.
You're going to recommend something that doesn't handle dependencies -or- have a UI by default to someone who is just learning?
Quote:
Byrain said: Also, @ micro, LOL, derp. i still can't think of anything intelligent to say so imma insult u moar!!1!!11
... 
OH, WAIT HERE IS THE PART THAT MATTERS
Quote:
Wunnbaddmofo said: Ok. So after attempting to install Ubuntu onto the machine I want to use,I was basically met with error messages. It allows me to use it as a live cd, but when I try to install desktop it gives me a string of error codes and hangs on the loading screen. So....since the machine is already running XPro, I will be using wampserver. Thanks for mentioning it, because I hadn't yet heard of it. So I am about to download it and start reading up on it. Leaving windows on the server will make it easier for me to administer it remotely I assume ? I know as far as some of you are concerned, that windows is the devil. But as soon as find an acceptable machine for sale cheap, I will be upgrading to that and installing something else. Im sure that I will need some advice on setting things up after I download wampserver though.
Windows isn't bad for what you are doing.
You don't need 100% uptime or to have it be super efficient.
For just learning, it is fine.
Yes, you can use Remote Desktop to connect from another machine.
Same as before, you want to make sure the router is setup to forward port 3389 (if connecting outside your network).
Also, make sure that Remote Desktop is enabled on that machine.
I don't know what a wampserver is though so best to get help from someone who has used it.
As someone pointed out, if that doesn't work out you can always run Apache on there too.
Also, those machines should really be fine until you find you actually need better performance, etc.
I'm also curious what the errors were but whatev.
Maybe the DVD was bad? Usually if the live DVD works you should be able to use the default install.
-------------------- Any research paper or book for free (Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)
Edited by micro (11/06/15 10:59 PM)
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
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Re: Web page hosting from a old comp at home [Re: micro]
#22489233 - 11/07/15 04:38 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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 Alright man.
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