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OfflineHagbardCeline
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"And yet the anomalous thrust remains" * 1
    #22471419 - 11/03/15 02:44 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

It appears that NASA's Eagle Works lab has again redesigned the apparatus used to detect thrust on their experimental EM/RF Drive (mostly to remove Lorentz force influences) which as explained by Paul March "And yet the anomalous thrust remains."

I'm surprised I haven't seen anything about this posted here yet, but this is reaching 'little engine that could' levels.  What kind of economic plays would be well advised if this does pan out?

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=38577.msg1440938#msg1440938

Quote:

All:

I wish I could show you all the pictures I've taken on how we saluted and mitigated the issues raised by our EW Lab's Blue-Ribbon PhD panel and now Potomac-Neuron's paper, on the possible Lorentz force interactions.  That being the Lorentz Interactions with the dc currents on the EW torque pendulum (TP) with the stray magnetic fields from the torque pendulum's first generation open-face magnetic damper and the Earth's geomagnetic field, but I can't due to the restrictive NASA press release rules now applied to the EW Lab. 

However since I still can't show you this supporting data until the EW Lab gets our next peer-reviewed lab paper published, I will tell you that we first built and installed a 2nd generation, closed face magnetic damper that reduced the stray magnetic fields in the vacuum chamber by at least an order of magnitude and any Lorentz force interactions it could produce.  I also changed up the torque pendulum's grounding wire scheme and single point ground location to minimize ground loop current interactions with the remaining stray magnetic fields and unbalanced dc currents from the RF amplifier when its turned on.  This reduced the Lorentz force interaction to less than 2 micro-Newton (uN) for the dummy load test.  Finally we rebuilt the copper frustum test article so that it is now fully integrated with the RF VCO, PLL, 100W RF amp, dual directional coupler, 3-stub tuner and connecting coax cables, then mounted this integrated test article at the opposite end of the torque pendulum, as far away as possible from the 2nd generation magnetic damper where only the required counterbalance weights now reside.  Current null testing with both the 50 ohm dummy load and with the integrated test article rotated 90 degrees with respect to the TP sensitive axis now show less than one uN of Lorentz forces on the TP due to dc magnetic interactions with the local environment even when drawing the maximum RF amp dc current of 12 amps. 

Given all of the above TP wiring and test article modifications with respect to our 2014 AIAA/JPC paper design baseline needed to address these Lorentz force magnetic interaction issues, we are still seeing over 100uN of force with 80W of RF power going into the frustum running in the TM212 resonant mode, now in both directions, dependent on the direction of the mounted integrated test article on the TP.  However these new plus and minus thrust signatures are still contaminated by thermally induced TP center of gravity (cg) zero-thrust baseline shifts brought on by the expansion of the copper frustum and aluminum RF amp and its heat sink when heated by the RF, even though these copper and aluminum cg shifts are now fighting each other.  (Sadly these TP cg baseline shifts are ~3X larger in-vacuum than in-air due to the better insulating qualities of the vacuum, so the in-vacuum thrust runs look very thermally contaminated whereas the in-air run look very impulsive.)  So we have now developed an analytical tool to help separate the EM-Drive thrust pulse waveform contributions from the thermal expansion cg induced baseline shifts of the TP.  Not being satisfied with just this analytical impulsive vs thermal signal separation approach, we are now working on a new integrated test article subsystem mounting arrangement with a new phase-change thermal management subsystem that should mitigate this thermally induced TP cg baseline shift problem once and for-all.

And yet the anomalous thrust signals remain...

Best, Paul March





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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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OfflineDrMushroom
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Re: "And yet the anomalous thrust remains" [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #22596004 - 11/30/15 07:07 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

ive hear about this, or it was another engine which creates matter and antimatter, displaces them then they combine and are destroys, an impossible engine that works, and produces thrust with zero displacement.

Its amusing to think of the applications should it ever be shrunken down.


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: "And yet the anomalous thrust remains" [Re: DrMushroom]
    #22605082 - 12/02/15 04:53 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

As I began reading your post, I thought you were joking with me.

This has zero to do with antimatter.  Simply, they've taken a microwave transmitter and fed the signal into a copper cone that is completely sealed on both ends.  The microwaves just bounce around inside at the resonant frequency.  Yet, more and more it appears to actually produce a directional thrust.  The power levels right now are very low (80 watts on NASA's rig I think) and so the thrust is low, but if this is real and it scales, producing a spacecraft capable of accelerating to a very high percentage of light speed is probably achievable win current technology.

That is exciting and terrifying.  It could open the solar system and more to exploration.  Or it could end life on Earth.  Someone did the calculations and a craft weighing only 2000 lbs could potentially achieve .9 c in a year or less - were a terrorist organization or even some insane loner build it and crash it into Earth at that speed its unlikely that anything would survive.


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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InvisibleJean-Luc Picard
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Registered: 12/30/07
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Re: "And yet the anomalous thrust remains" [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #22607870 - 12/03/15 08:48 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I think Dr mushroom may be referring to quantum vacuum virtual plasma theory, which involves virtual particles created and destroyed in the QED vacuum, and is specifically referenced in papers published by Eagle works on their resonant cavity thruster (em drive).

The Woodward effect would be something to read up on, as it ties directly to reactionless drives.

Additionally, it is impossible to launch a 2000lb payload beyond low earth orbit without being noticed, would cost hundreds of millions of dollars, require tons of constant high-energy radio communication to guide, would have less than 1/10,000th the energy of the chicxulub meteor, and would more than likely burn up in the atmosphere (think about the magnitude of atmospheric heating upon re-entry). Additionally, you have to put in as much energy as the final kinetic energy of the projectile, and your kinetic energy at .9c is approaching that of the entire world's annual energy consumption. I seriously doubt that a 2000lb craft could gather/store/handle a power load equal to the entire planet's power consumption for a full year.

Just sayin' :shrug: those terrorists are gonna have to seriously step up their game if they wanna play around with that, and at that point, a series of precisely aimed laser blasts would be a much better use of such advanced power transfer technology.


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The universe is under no obligation to make sense to you - NDT


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