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InvisibleHigher Love
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serious: is the growing process bad for cancer patient?
    #22468096 - 11/02/15 07:23 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Hi guys, I have a serious question for all of the qualified.
My father is a recovering leukemia patient who has been in remission from a bone marrow aspiration for approximately 2 months now. His immune system is obviously low and recovering still. We are wondering if any of necessary procedures could be harmful to his health. From agar to pasteurizing substrates to fruiting in monotubs.
All work is done in a separate room besides preparing of grains and substrates and PC'ing.
Thank you all


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OfflinePsilosoulful

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Re: serious: is the growing process bad for cancer patient? [Re: Higher Love]
    #22468197 - 11/02/15 07:45 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I'm having trouble understanding how growing mushrooms would affect him, I mean, there's no harmful chemicals involved in the entire process. Unless you leave a moldy jar open and it releases its spores all over the place, then that can pose a serious health issue.


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Re: serious: is the growing process bad for cancer patient? [Re: Higher Love]
    #22468201 - 11/02/15 07:46 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I'm no doctor but I'm going to say he'll be perfectly fine as long as your "clean" in your production.  By clean I mean keeping your prep/grow area in tip top shape.  If you dont you risk inviting all kinds of contaminates to grow inside your house.  If you see any whacky mold/etc in your jars toss them.  Good luck and I hope your father kicks cancer's ass!!!!


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Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not: nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not: the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.

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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: serious: is the growing process bad for cancer patient? [Re: Zuul]
    #22468236 - 11/02/15 07:52 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

More than just a moldy jar. Literally EVERY contam needs to be tossed immediately. Moldy agar dishes worked on in a sab (as per usual) and tossed immediately. You really don't want the majority of molds common in our hobby to get extremely airborne if you have a bad immune system.

Trich, aspergillus, penicillium, fusarium, lipstick, literally almost every colour except grey and pure white could be potentially harmful to his health.

I'm not trying to make you worry. Just giving you the facts. Better to be safe than sorry :smile:


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InvisibleHigher Love
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Re: serious: is the growing process bad for cancer patient? [Re: Zuul]
    #22468241 - 11/02/15 07:53 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

He has spoken with his doctor and they advised him to get all of the stuff out of the house immediately. But Everything is alwayd kept contained, separate, and in immaculate condition, always clean and sanitary. Any mold, even on sealed petri's is tossed in outside garbage immediately. I'm having a hard time understanding where the doctor is coming from as well. I'm bummed guys, if there's any hobby to do with a cancer patient I feel it'd be this one


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InvisibleHigher Love
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Re: serious: is the growing process bad for cancer patient? [Re: Mad Season]
    #22468247 - 11/02/15 07:54 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:
More than just a moldy jar. Literally EVERY contam needs to be tossed immediately. Moldy agar dishes worked on in a sab (as per usual) and tossed immediately. You really don't want the majority of molds common in our hobby to get extremely airborne if you have a bad immune system.

Trich, aspergillus, penicillium, fusarium, lipstick, literally almost every colour except grey and pure white could be potentially harmful to his health.

I'm not trying to make you worry. Just giving you the facts. Better to be safe than sorry :smile:




Thank you


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: serious: is the growing process bad for cancer patient? [Re: Higher Love]
    #22468273 - 11/02/15 07:59 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Seriously as long as you toss the shit asap with very little sporulation, and don't mist stuff with molds (literally the #1 biggest way of spreading spores), your father should be fine. It's not like he's living in a bubble. If you maintain cleanliness, a walk in the woods would expose him to MUCH more contams than this hobby. But it ofc depends on cleanliness


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OfflineYukon Cornelius
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Re: serious: is the growing process bad for cancer patient? [Re: Higher Love]
    #22468281 - 11/02/15 08:01 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

If his immune system is severely suppressed I think the doctors believe that any airborne spores could germinate in his body.

This wouldn't really make sense because he'd be in quarantine if that was the case, couldn't walk outside or breath unfiltered air that's loaded with spores of all types.

I would ask a mycologist or microbiologist about this instead, however if you get a chance have your father ask the doctor specifically why it's not a good idea to have mushrooms growing in the house.


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OfflineIngSocTHC
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Re: serious: is the growing process bad for cancer patient? [Re: Yukon Cornelius]
    #22468810 - 11/02/15 10:01 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Best of luck to your pops.


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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: serious: is the growing process bad for cancer patient? [Re: Yukon Cornelius]
    #22468902 - 11/02/15 10:31 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

You should work on some ganoderma sp. while you're at it.
It's medicinal benefits, especially associated with cancer
treatment and prevention, is outstanding.

Good luck to you and your pops!


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: serious: is the growing process bad for cancer patient? [Re: natedawgnow] * 1
    #22468982 - 11/02/15 10:57 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

The one sporeload we overlook is that of the species we grow. Oysters should probably be avoided. But I have a mammoth cube sporeload and it hasn't hurt my dog (she is autoimmune) one bit. I would say that provided you keep your mold sporeload down (which you should do anyway) which is just dependent on good practices, your home would have a lower sporeload than outdoors.

Doctors are usually just good at covering their own asses, not giving you good information.


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InvisibleKalistis
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Re: serious: is the growing process bad for cancer patient? [Re: Higher Love]
    #22469029 - 11/02/15 11:21 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Higher Love said:
He has spoken with his doctor and they advised him to get all of the stuff out of the house immediately. But Everything is alwayd kept contained, separate, and in immaculate condition, always clean and sanitary. Any mold, even on sealed petri's is tossed in outside garbage immediately. I'm having a hard time understanding where the doctor is coming from as well. I'm bummed guys, if there's any hobby to do with a cancer patient I feel it'd be this one




You got your answer from your father's physician and yet you came to a forum to get medical advice? Honestly, you guys have no fucking clue what you are talking about. Even comparing your dog's immune system to this man's father in recent remission from leukemia is almost amusing. One of the primary symptoms of leukemia is CHRONIC INFECTIONS despite one's best effort to avoid them. Immunocompromised people are at such a high risk of getting bacterial and fungal infections that many of them live on antibacterial and antifungal medications just to keep titer levels down low enough to stay healthy. Aspergillosis is not uncommon to this hobby and commonly affects and kills immunocompromised people.

Even if you practice best cultivation techniques, is it really worth the risk? Your father's body has gone through an epic battle. Listen to his doctor, put the mush cult aside or move it out of the home until your father isn't considered a high risk patient. I hope he feels better soon and that you both can get back to what you love.


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: serious: is the growing process bad for cancer patient? [Re: Kalistis]
    #22469108 - 11/02/15 11:49 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I still agree with pasty they're just trying to cover their asses. If he gets anything infectious the doctor will just blame the mycology. When in reality it could have been ANYTHING. Going to the bathroom, eating a bagel, going for a walk, sleeping, playing Frisbee. You can EASILY see 1-5 billion particles every cubic metre.

Plenty of members, including myself opened an agar dish in open air for a couple seconds for shits and giggles.. The results are always the same.


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InvisibleKalistis
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Re: serious: is the growing process bad for cancer patient? [Re: Mad Season]
    #22469144 - 11/03/15 12:04 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

It really is more than covering their asses, but about prevention. The doctor would also tell him not to be out digging in the garden, visiting a nursery school, or traveling during peak old and flu season. It's about assessing risk and eliminating all known potential threats during recovery. I personally have worked with asper. Once it gets into the alveoli of an immunocompromised person, it's a fucking nightmare. Of course even if he lived in a bubble, there is a chance something could get in, but once again why bring a lighted torch in house after spilling the fuel?

If his father's in remission, I don't see why he couldn't put things on hold until his father's doctor feels he is no longer high risk.


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InvisibleHigher Love
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Re: serious: is the growing process bad for cancer patient? [Re: Kalistis]
    #22470126 - 11/03/15 09:12 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Kalistis said:
If his father's in remission, I don't see why he couldn't put things on hold until his father's doctor feels he is no longer high risk.




Agreed.

Thank you guys for the input and good wishes. Things are on hold without further question. Last night I was a little upset, but the scale realistically tips only one way here. It's nice to have him where he is and it's only getting better
Cheers


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InvisibleKalistis
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Re: serious: is the growing process bad for cancer patient? [Re: Higher Love]
    #22470171 - 11/03/15 09:28 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

How fortunate is your father to have you on his side? But you have every right to be upset! Fuck cancer. My dad has a form of chronic leukemia that is apparently hereditary but not currently affecting his immune system. I'm always amazed by how resilient and delicate the human body is all at the same time. I wish your father a speedy recovery and some peace in you life.


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InvisibleSupalemonhaze
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Re: serious: is the growing process bad for cancer patient? [Re: Kalistis]
    #22470263 - 11/03/15 09:55 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Higher Love said:
He has spoken with his doctor and they advised him to get all of the stuff out of the house immediately.




Thats just classic doctor attitude. If they don't know anything about it don't do it. What a bunch of assholes. I bet they didn't even give you any reason whatsoever why he should move. Do your homework man just cos they have a PhD doesn't mean you should follow their advice blindly. I have a story about my father and a bone proffesor which will make you loose all hope in modern medicine and weary of doctors in general. Kinda long to post here but im sure there are thousands of people with similiar experiences.

Edit: dont get me wrong in the end it was a doctor who set my father on the straight and narrow, not all doctors are the same.


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: serious: is the growing process bad for cancer patient? [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #22470647 - 11/03/15 11:42 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

How would spores like aspergillus or trich be harmful to someone with compromised health? Arent they everywhere?


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Re: serious: is the growing process bad for cancer patient? [Re: mushpunx]
    #22470732 - 11/03/15 12:02 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Trich is in every inch of soil on the planet.


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: serious: is the growing process bad for cancer patient? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22470898 - 11/03/15 12:35 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Trich is in every inch of soil on the planet.





That's why Ive never understood the use of hazmat suits on mushroom grow busts.

A jar might get a nasty contam but you wouldn't need to open it, you can PC it first.

But aside from invitro contams Id say the vast majority of time its just gunna be harmless green molds on your tubs


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: serious: is the growing process bad for cancer patient? [Re: mushpunx]
    #22470911 - 11/03/15 12:37 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mushpunx said:
Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Trich is in every inch of soil on the planet.





That's why Ive never understood the use of hazmat suits on mushroom grow busts.

A jar might get a nasty contam but you wouldn't need to open it, you can PC it first.

But aside from invitro contams Id say the vast majority of time its just gunna be harmless green molds on your tubs



They use the haz mat suits to put the fear in the community and alienate the victims of the raid from their peers and neighbors.  Or because they're stupid.  Really hard to say.


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InvisibleKalistis
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Re: serious: is the growing process bad for cancer patient? [Re: Inocuole]
    #22470916 - 11/03/15 12:38 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)



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InvisibleKalistis
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Re: serious: is the growing process bad for cancer patient? [Re: Kalistis]
    #22470926 - 11/03/15 12:40 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I have no idea why they would wear hazmat suits except for the fact that they have no idea what they are walking into and are following a protocol. However, I am not concerned about people with healthy immune systems, nor is that at the center of the conversation.


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: serious: is the growing process bad for cancer patient? [Re: Inocuole]
    #22470935 - 11/03/15 12:42 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Haha

You will look really bad on the news. People will think you put them at risk and hate you and or conv. t :lol:

I think they just like to get dressed up. I love the articles too, about the hundreds of "jars full of mushroom spores ready to be planted"


I think its relevant to the conversation, that mushroom growing conjures up dangerous molds in peoples minds 

But yea, I don't think the normal contaminants consistent with mushroom cultivation are anything dangerous to someone with a compromised immune system.

Like Pasty said, the common molds like Trich are everywhere. Theyre a danger to mushrooms but not people


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Edited by mushpunx (11/03/15 12:50 PM)


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: serious: is the growing process bad for cancer patient? [Re: mushpunx]
    #22470966 - 11/03/15 12:48 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Like I said before. My dog has a really compromised immune system.  My grows do not hurt her. But oysters almost killed her. I'm sure that if you spread a load of a. flavius around, that could really hurt a weakened individual. But a small amount in a jar or a spot popping up on a sub is no more dangerous than finding some old cheese in the fridge.


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: serious: is the growing process bad for cancer patient? [Re: Pastywhyte] * 1
    #22471002 - 11/03/15 12:56 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Yea I mean 9/10 times you are gunna lose a tub to trich. Probably closer to 10/10.

Might get some weird stuff inside a jar but in your situation I would sterilize it in the PC before opening it.

Its definitely good of you to look into any possible risks. Your pop should be proud of you for that


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InvisibleKalistis
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Re: serious: is the growing process bad for cancer patient? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22471071 - 11/03/15 01:15 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Asper and trich may be everywhere, but there are things you can do to increase spore load. To argue that by doing this doesn't put an immunocompromised person at risk is idiotic, especially in a person that has had a recent transplant. Invasive aspergillosis is very common in hematological malignancies.... it's not like this is something doctors just whipped up to fearmonger the masses.

Pasty, you practice good methodology, but how many people do you come across on a daily basis that have no fucking clue as to what they are doing? Aspergillus is just one contaminant that can get out of hand if someone doesn't know what they are doing... I see people make dumb decisions on the regular, so it wouldn't I wouldn't put it past an inexperienced cultivator to accidentally expose a critically ill family member to something far worse. It's just not worth it when it comes to a family member's life. :shrug:


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Re: serious: is the growing process bad for cancer patient? [Re: Kalistis]
    #22471120 - 11/03/15 01:27 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not really for censoring what we say to accommodate the lowest common denominator. :shrug:


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InvisibleKalistis
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Re: serious: is the growing process bad for cancer patient? [Re: Inocuole]
    #22471127 - 11/03/15 01:31 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Did I say you had to censor yourself? No Sir. However, this is not the place for someone to get medical advice.


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Re: serious: is the growing process bad for cancer patient? [Re: Kalistis]
    #22471151 - 11/03/15 01:39 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Another very good point.  You'll most definitely get biased advice in favor of growing by people who mostly have good technique and already have a general procedure for dealing with contaminants.  OP made up their mind before the end of the first page though.


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InvisibleKalistis
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Re: serious: is the growing process bad for cancer patient? [Re: Inocuole]
    #22471168 - 11/03/15 01:43 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Nothing wrong with continuing the conversation. :skol:


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Re: serious: is the growing process bad for cancer patient? [Re: Kalistis]
    #22471230 - 11/03/15 01:56 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

If they are that critically ill they should be in a hospital I would imagine if they are in such a fragile state that the molds common to mush cult would hurt them they need to be in some sort of a clean room because houses, especially older ones are chock full of them.
And the truly dangerous ones are gunna be growing in your ceilings, not your mushroom tubs.

Aspergillus is a genus, there are hundreds of types of it some auite dangerous and some not. Its a pretty broad term.


There are some common sense things you can do to reduce spore load that are good for everyone to follow regardless of state of health.

Just don't open moldy jars without sterilizing them first. A good GE filter should keep mold in as well as out.
Keep an eye on substrates. If they start to get a green spot dump it outside.

I would say that food has the same potential to grow mold as mush cultivation, and I don't think anyone would tell you not to keep food in the house. :lol:


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Re: serious: is the growing process bad for cancer patient? [Re: mushpunx]
    #22471277 - 11/03/15 02:10 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Lol, no they don't put most immunocompromised folks in clean rooms. You would be surprised by the number of critically ill people on antifungals living in their homes. They simply take preventative measures, as listed above, to avoid infection. I am well aware that Aspegillus has many species. I worked in a clin path lab for several years that did pcr testing for all sorts of things, including a pan-asper assay.

Now I have that damn Jake Gyllenhaal movie, Bubble Boy, in my head. Thanks guys.


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Re: serious: is the growing process bad for cancer patient? [Re: Kalistis] * 1
    #22471288 - 11/03/15 02:14 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Some people get songs stuck in their heads, you can get a whole movie in there?  That's gotta be annoying.


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Re: serious: is the growing process bad for cancer patient? [Re: Inocuole]
    #22471314 - 11/03/15 02:24 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)



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Re: serious: is the growing process bad for cancer patient? [Re: Higher Love]
    #22475460 - 11/04/15 10:44 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Higher Love said:
Quote:

Kalistis said:
If his father's in remission, I don't see why he couldn't put things on hold until his father's doctor feels he is no longer high risk.




Agreed.

Thank you guys for the input and good wishes. Things are on hold without further question. Last night I was a little upset, but the scale realistically tips only one way here. It's nice to have him where he is and it's only getting better
Cheers



Good call. It's not worth risking your fathers health, even if the risks may be pretty low.


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How I make 15 lbs of casing in a 941. How I line 12 shoeboxes with 1 39gal bag. How I Deep Fry Cubes!
RogerRabbit said:You need a bigger pressure cooker for this hobby. RR


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