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Offlinesatch1234
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Re: Are drugs an escape from reality? [Re: SleepyE]
    #22471999 - 11/03/15 04:47 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I've talked about Jung to many of my past professors :shrug: The Archetypes embedded in human psychology is a pretty sound scientific hypothesis, not sure why it would be woo? Many animals may have archetypes which push and pull them in certain directions.


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Offlinesatch1234
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Re: Are drugs an escape from reality? [Re: satch1234]
    #22472015 - 11/03/15 04:51 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

For me reading Jung actually demystified the psychedelic experience and made me see how the experience was from ME and not from outside.


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Are drugs an escape from reality? [Re: satch1234]
    #22472025 - 11/03/15 04:52 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

i dunno, because it can raise certain fundamental ideas on embedded meaning in our existence and i dont think modern science wants to discuss such scenarios where there could be evidence of that.


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Are drugs an escape from reality? [Re: SleepyE]
    #22472034 - 11/03/15 04:54 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

like why would a clown or jester archetype need to be developed by our minds, what does it represent? does it have purpose?

does it occur in people who have never heard of clowns?

Clowns and jesters should be a cultural construction, not a fundamental construction of our psyche.

if you got a bunch of people from another country to smoke DMT that dont know what a clown or jester is or looks like and sees them, what would that mean? Provided you show them examples of clowns and jesters afterwards and ask them if they have seen anything like it in the visions.

those kind of experiments are crucial in our hypothesis that there might be some connecting consciousness that sends information between our species in some ineffable way. Kind of like Rupert Sheldrakes morphic fields theories.


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Edited by SleepyE (11/03/15 05:11 PM)


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OfflineTreebux
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Re: Are drugs an escape from reality? [Re: Forest23]
    #22472102 - 11/03/15 05:10 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Usually the people who say that mean that your using drugs to escape the stress of everyday life. Maybe some people think potheads go into another reality or something. Reality is just the combination of all your senses making electrical signals to your brain. Technically (if the technology existed) you could take someone's brain out hook our brain up to wires and generate any reality you wanted.

We could all be brains in a big warehouse right now all running the same reality software. :crazy2:

Drugs can turn off your senses or alter them. But your still stuck in your brain.


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Offlinesatch1234
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Re: Are drugs an escape from reality? [Re: SleepyE] * 1
    #22472169 - 11/03/15 05:21 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah nah I hear ya dude it is interesting! I did smoke dmt for years and still do think about it a lot! I've encountered the trickster countless times. What is its purpose in the human mind? Comedy? A lighter approach to this dimension? A driver of art? I certainly don't know...

Clown phobias.. there is something two sided about him isn't there?

Humans round the world do the same things without ever meeting, mask making, dance e.t.c likely a result of these embedded archetypes.


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Are drugs an escape from reality? [Re: satch1234]
    #22472214 - 11/03/15 05:29 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

lots of interesting questions :smile:

really hope there is some sort of area of research looking into this stuff :lol:

like do any psychology professors know that you can in relative accuracy stimulate encounter with our most theorized archetypes?

seems like important information to me, if i were in that field of study :/


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Offlinesatch1234
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Re: Are drugs an escape from reality? [Re: SleepyE] * 1
    #22472272 - 11/03/15 05:38 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Get into it man, making I will break out the changa and see what I get today!


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Are drugs an escape from reality? [Re: satch1234]
    #22472301 - 11/03/15 05:42 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

ahahah do iitt :cheers:


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Are drugs an escape from reality? [Re: satch1234]
    #22472465 - 11/03/15 06:15 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

satch1234 said:
For me reading Jung actually demystified the psychedelic experience and made me see how the experience was from ME and not from outside.



its funny that research needs to be done in order for you to have made the decision.

The fact that theres ambiguity on its content says something in what really draws the line for us and our decision on what is going on.

i still remain undecided, i dont know the extent of how real the experience can get and dont pretend to know whats truly possible or correct in this experience.


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Edited by SleepyE (11/03/15 06:16 PM)


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Offlinesatch1234
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Re: Are drugs an escape from reality? [Re: SleepyE] * 1
    #22472892 - 11/03/15 07:28 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Well I mean you know the thought like "wow how could my brain possibly come up with that" "it must be something coming to me, a transmission", but then Jung made me realise how much subconscious stuff is going on DEEEEP in there that I cannot perceive.

So in a way the study you are proposing cannot solve the problem, it still comes down to an outlook. Say we go to a untouched tribe in Indonesia, we bring them dmt and get them to smoke it. We then show them pictures of different entities and ask what one was most like the experience, they all point to the jester/trickster.

You walk away saying see! there is some connecting consciousness that sends information between our species in some ineffable way!

I walk away saying see! There are archetypes embedded in human neurology that we all perceive in an altered state.

:grin: Or have you got a better study idea?


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Are drugs an escape from reality? [Re: satch1234]
    #22474523 - 11/04/15 05:14 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

i mentioned the jester thing on youtube and a random dude commented saying this and posting a link to a digital art piece he made very recently.

Quote:


I was so surprised when I saw the Jester on my first dmt trip, not what I expected at all






Spooky! right? :eek:
that thing reminds me so much of DMT. daamn.

wonder how deep this shit goes :ooo:


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Edited by SleepyE (11/04/15 05:15 AM)


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Offlinesuperbob57
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Re: Are drugs an escape from reality? [Re: SleepyE] * 1
    #22474851 - 11/04/15 07:48 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Go's Pretty Deep bro...I began seeing the Jester in my Trips and actually formed the motto that Every Trip is to break yourself down and rebuild that Ego each time.Without even knowing what that Archetype was...Weird right? The Jester visits me on high LSD Trips, I've yet to encounter him in the DMT Zone, but im sure if I did some @ the moment I probably run into him...Yeah his profile actually fits my own, very interesting stuff...:strokebeard:

The Trickster Archetype

The trickster is a very important archetype in the history of man. He is a god, yet he is not. He is the wise-fool. It is he, through his creations that destroy, points out the flaws in carefully constructed societies of man. He rebels against authority, pokes fun at the overly serious, creates convaluted schemes - that may or may not work - plays with the Laws of the Universe and is sometimes his own worst enemy. He exists to question, to cause us to question & not accept things blindly. He appears when a way of thinking becomes outmoded needs to be torn down built anew. He is the Destroyer of Worlds at the same time the savior of us all. In dreams {and myth} the trickster can be seen as
The Fool
The Magician
The Clown
The Jester
The Villian
The Destroyer

What I adopted the Motto without even knowing about this weird right?:strokebeard:


Edited by superbob57 (11/04/15 07:58 AM)


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Offlinelovelaughlibs
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Re: Are drugs an escape from reality? [Re: SleepyE]
    #22474897 - 11/04/15 08:04 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SleepyE said:
Quote:

ohcrapitsnico said:

Psychedelics are drugs. Drugs are an escape from reality. If you think otherwise the drugs are deluding you or the mental illness is. Quite possibly both.



Why do we all see the same space and archetypes?

like the jester, many users report being guided by a jester or "the trickster" A well documented Carl Jung archetype.



To play devil's advocate, it could be a bit of knowing "well my buddy saw a jester on DMT", then it would be fresh on your subconcious and show itself in a visual animated (maybe even speaking) form whilst tripping?

Kind of like subconscious suggestion influencing the experience.


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Offlinelovelaughlibs
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Re: Are drugs an escape from reality? [Re: satch1234]
    #22474936 - 11/04/15 08:18 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

satch1234 said:
Yeah nah I hear ya dude it is interesting! I did smoke dmt for years and still do think about it a lot! I've encountered the trickster countless times. What is its purpose in the human mind? Comedy? A lighter approach to this dimension? A driver of art? I certainly don't know...

Clown phobias.. there is something two sided about him isn't there?

Humans round the world do the same things without ever meeting, mask making, dance e.t.c likely a result of these embedded archetypes.



I love this post though.

That is a really interesting thing about the masks. I think humans like to be slightly unnerved - it is dancing like a human, and under its mask I can hear human speech, but its face is hidden. Uncanny valley is similar and it's very observable when children see mascots. Sometimes they become aggressive or scared and violent; the fear of the unknown thing dancing alarmingly happily with unconfirmable identity is too much for them.

The Jester experience could be a style of unnerved laughter amongst the same vein - through satirical playful impersonations of an evil/incompetent political leader we laugh, but we are subconsciously unnerved the status quo may not be as it seems.


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Are drugs an escape from reality? [Re: lovelaughlibs]
    #22475216 - 11/04/15 09:50 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

lovelaughlibs said:
Quote:

SleepyE said:
Quote:

ohcrapitsnico said:

Psychedelics are drugs. Drugs are an escape from reality. If you think otherwise the drugs are deluding you or the mental illness is. Quite possibly both.



Why do we all see the same space and archetypes?

like the jester, many users report being guided by a jester or "the trickster" A well documented Carl Jung archetype.



To play devil's advocate, it could be a bit of knowing "well my buddy saw a jester on DMT", then it would be fresh on your subconcious and show itself in a visual animated (maybe even speaking) form whilst tripping?

Kind of like subconscious suggestion influencing the experience.




Quote:


if you got a bunch of people from another country to smoke DMT that dont know what a clown or jester is or looks like and sees them, what would that mean? Provided you show them examples of clowns and jesters afterwards and ask them if they have seen anything like it in the visions.





Like i said, we should test that theory, all we have is speculation, but from what i gather it definitely is not subconscious suggestion.

The whole DMT experience is carnival-like in its core nature, for everyone pretty much.
I dont see this element of the experience changing because someone wasnt influenced by subconscious suggestion.

The concept is esoteric enough as is i doubt many DMT users expect a carnival like experience, i know i didnt


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Edited by SleepyE (11/04/15 09:51 AM)


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Offlinesuperbob57
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Re: Are drugs an escape from reality? [Re: SleepyE] * 1
    #22475713 - 11/04/15 10:50 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Yep, it is a Romper for entities in IMHO, were pearing into spiritual realm and this why people report the same things,As if were looking into a Mice cage and watch them play around...:strokebeard:


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Offlinesatch1234
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Re: Are drugs an escape from reality? [Re: SleepyE]
    #22475995 - 11/04/15 11:14 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SleepyE said:
i mentioned the jester thing on youtube and a random dude commented saying this and posting a link to a digital art piece he made very recently.

Quote:


I was so surprised when I saw the Jester on my first dmt trip, not what I expected at all






Spooky! right? :eek:
that thing reminds me so much of DMT. daamn.

wonder how deep this shit goes :ooo:




OMFG It's him! It's him! I have spent countless hours in a stand off with this smirking fucka! Great find SleepyE :shocked: I'm reinterested


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Are drugs an escape from reality? [Re: satch1234]
    #22476370 - 11/04/15 12:25 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

satch1234 said:
Quote:

SleepyE said:
i mentioned the jester thing on youtube and a random dude commented saying this and posting a link to a digital art piece he made very recently.

Quote:


I was so surprised when I saw the Jester on my first dmt trip, not what I expected at all






Spooky! right? :eek:
that thing reminds me so much of DMT. daamn.

wonder how deep this shit goes :ooo:




OMFG It's him! It's him! I have spent countless hours in a stand off with this smirking fucka! Great find SleepyE :shocked: I'm reinterested



ahah !!! seriously trippy that this person can out of nowhere to say that lol.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Are drugs an escape from reality? [Re: SleepyE] * 1
    #22477954 - 11/04/15 07:23 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I think it's turtles all the way down, frankly...

Speaking just for mushrooms, the last few times I've contemplated some sort of weather modification while tripping, if I step outside Coyote (the trickster) will appear in the clouds.  He usually wants to know if I'm serious - because you don't always get what you think you'll get.  Sometimes the results are way greater than expected - and Coyote stands there, sort of juggling the odds (yes, that sort of joker) while he lets me decide - 'cause he's down for it either way, but he's a safeguard of sorts, as well as a goad to those very extremes.

:2cents:


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