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KauaiOrca
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Huge Raises lead to big profits!
#22465572 - 11/02/15 07:22 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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With all the baloney being said about how raising wages kills profits and the economy, here's a great story. A CEO believes his employees should, at minimum, make $70,000 a year ... He takes a huge pay cut and gives them a raise. Media predicts it will destroy his company. Instead, profits have doubled. Great leadership, great example of a CEO that values the success of his employees as much as the success of his shareholders.
http://anonhq.com/revenue-profits-double-after-ceo-took-90-pay-cut-to-set-70k-minimum-wage/
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2015/10/26/3715988/gravity-payments-revenue/
We need a lot more of this! An ownership approach of creating real prosperity rather than exploiting labor to the maximum possible. This guy deserves a Nobel Peace Prize in economics for leadership and risk taking.
In his own words, why he did it:
http://www.doitjewelry.com/09/26/dan-price-a-capitalist-solution-why-every-worker-in-america-should-make-70000/
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
Edited by KauaiOrca (11/02/15 07:25 AM)
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Huge Raises lead to big profits! [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22465590 - 11/02/15 07:30 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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I support this guys choices 100%, however, should it be govt mandated? That's the big question here
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KauaiOrca
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said: I support this guys choices 100%, however, should it be govt mandated? That's the big question here
This kind of aggressive compensation plan could never be government mandated, for obvious reasons. I don't think it takes mandates either.
Why not just offer two separate Corporate tax structures any corporation can choose from? One similar to what we have now and one that reduces corporate taxes if companies voluntarily shrink the pay gap dramatically? Draws on American values ... choice, options, innovation ... gives shareholders and executives more to think about ... Will give consumers information about corporate values ... everybody wins.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Huge Raises lead to big profits! [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22465660 - 11/02/15 07:47 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Will corporations be able to attract top level talent to keep them competitive when the compensation is only a fraction of what their competitors pay? If GM is only paying their salesman, designers, marketers a fraction of what they could make at ford, would that lead to a "talent gap"?
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KauaiOrca
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Will corporations be able to attract top level talent to keep them competitive when the compensation is only a fraction of what their competitors pay? If GM is only paying their salesman, designers, marketers a fraction of what they could make at ford, would that lead to a "talent gap"?
It would be their choice. They could go for the current system if they want. There are some possible huge morale and overall company motivation that could be gained with a less predatory wages plan. Also, customers may respond positively to companies that SHOW they really care about their employees. Possible quality gains.
There is no link whatsoever between CEO compensation and long term success of large corporations. None. Has been studied extensively. Higher paid CEO"s do not outperform the rest of the pack and I'd suggest this is probably true with all senior level execs. Often, execs demand higher comp because the company and industry is so distasteful or has such a toxic work environment ...
In Good to Great a very scientific case was made that the home grown CEO that is committed to the company and other employees because he/she grew up there, is the best possible CEO.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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KauaiOrca
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Will corporations be able to attract top level talent to keep them competitive when the compensation is only a fraction of what their competitors pay? If GM is only paying their salesman, designers, marketers a fraction of what they could make at ford, would that lead to a "talent gap"?
Also, HU, keep in mind MOST of the employees would make MORE MONEY. It's a small fraction that would make less. As a result, on a macro scale, the company would be attracting better people at the lower end of the pay scale which is where most of the real work gets done, customers are served and sold and products/services are delivered. The higher paid people are usually pretty far removed from the activities that really impact customers.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Huge Raises lead to big profits! [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22465732 - 11/02/15 08:06 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Will corporations be able to attract top level talent to keep them competitive when the compensation is only a fraction of what their competitors pay? If GM is only paying their salesman, designers, marketers a fraction of what they could make at ford, would that lead to a "talent gap"?
Also, HU, keep in mind MOST of the employees would make MORE MONEY. It's a small fraction that would make less. As a result, on a macro scale, the company would be attracting better people at the lower end of the pay scale which is where most of the real work gets done, customers are served and sold and products/services are delivered. The higher paid people are usually pretty far removed from the activities that really impact customers.
Really? If these people are so unnecessary and the corporations so greedy, why do they employ them at all? Seems counterproductive.
The lower end of the pay scale may be where most assembly occurs, but what about the designers? I like to use my favorite liberal company as an example, Apple, I love everything Apple, I care not the company is run by a bunch of leftists. However, they strive to attract the very best when it comes to innovation and marketing, do they not? They also pay the best in terms of attracting the very best, if the company did not, I highly doubt they would be as successful as they are.
The other thing I love about Apple is the people who run it spout the liberal socialist line, but they sure as hell run the company on a purely capitalistic philosophy, lol.
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Huge Raises lead to big profits! [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22465744 - 11/02/15 08:15 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Will corporations be able to attract top level talent to keep them competitive when the compensation is only a fraction of what their competitors pay? If GM is only paying their salesman, designers, marketers a fraction of what they could make at ford, would that lead to a "talent gap"?
It would be their choice. They could go for the current system if they want. There are some possible huge morale and overall company motivation that could be gained with a less predatory wages plan. Also, customers may respond positively to companies that SHOW they really care about their employees. Possible quality gains.
There is no link whatsoever between CEO compensation and long term success of large corporations. None. Has been studied extensively. Higher paid CEO"s do not outperform the rest of the pack and I'd suggest this is probably true with all senior level execs. Often, execs demand higher comp because the company and industry is so distasteful or has such a toxic work environment ...
In Good to Great a very scientific case was made that the home grown CEO that is committed to the company and other employees because he/she grew up there, is the best possible CEO.
I think you focus too much on CEO pay, there's many more higher ups involved in running a company than just the CEO. That's why when people blame Carly fiorina for the hp debacle I just have to laugh, they discount everyone else involved in such a merger.
The board of directors, accountants, and many others would take huge pay cuts under your plan, unless of course you plan to pay them more than the CEO, lol
There's a reason the biggest most successful companies pay the most, for All Their employees. It has nothing to do with tax rates, has everything to do making money.
i think corporations number one duty is to the shareholders, not their employees, if the stock price doesn't do well, they lose a lot of financial backing and support from them. When the stock price is good, everyone does well, that's a win win
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KauaiOrca
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Will corporations be able to attract top level talent to keep them competitive when the compensation is only a fraction of what their competitors pay? If GM is only paying their salesman, designers, marketers a fraction of what they could make at ford, would that lead to a "talent gap"?
Also, HU, keep in mind MOST of the employees would make MORE MONEY. It's a small fraction that would make less. As a result, on a macro scale, the company would be attracting better people at the lower end of the pay scale which is where most of the real work gets done, customers are served and sold and products/services are delivered. The higher paid people are usually pretty far removed from the activities that really impact customers.
Really? If these people are so unnecessary and the corporations so greedy, why do they employ them at all? Seems counterproductive.
The lower end of the pay scale may be where most assembly occurs, but what about the designers? I like to use my favorite liberal company as an example, Apple, I love everything Apple, I care not the company is run by a bunch of leftists. However, they strive to attract the very best when it comes to innovation and marketing, do they not? They also pay the best in terms of attracting the very best, if the company did not, I highly doubt they would be as successful as they are.
The other thing I love about Apple is the people who run it spout the liberal socialist line, but they sure as hell run the company on a purely capitalistic philosophy, lol.
HU - You have the silly habit of taking a statement and exaggerating it to the point of being ludicrous. I did not say that high payed people are "unnecessary" ... nothing even close to that. They are obviously VERY important. Can you get a great person to work for, let's say a 3 million dollar comp package opposed to a 30 million dollar package? IMHO, yes and maybe even a better person as outlined in a number of studies.
If you think the core of key designers and creative people at Apple are all making over 1 million a year, you are deeply mistaken. That is a tiny, tiny fraction of the people that do the work that generates the magic. You might also be surprised that there are many people that would prefer to work in an environment where everybody wins together.
With a 25X pay gap, an executive can make a million bucks when the lowest paid employee makes $40,000 ... Your EXTREME conclusions, I believe, undermine your understanding of ideas that you knee jerk away from.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Huge Raises lead to big profits! [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22465762 - 11/02/15 08:22 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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40,000$ is peanuts in California, and so is one million when you're talking about running Fortune 500 company, no one in their right mind would do it for so little, when you could go elsewhere and make many times more the same responsibility
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KauaiOrca
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Will corporations be able to attract top level talent to keep them competitive when the compensation is only a fraction of what their competitors pay? If GM is only paying their salesman, designers, marketers a fraction of what they could make at ford, would that lead to a "talent gap"?
It would be their choice. They could go for the current system if they want. There are some possible huge morale and overall company motivation that could be gained with a less predatory wages plan. Also, customers may respond positively to companies that SHOW they really care about their employees. Possible quality gains.
There is no link whatsoever between CEO compensation and long term success of large corporations. None. Has been studied extensively. Higher paid CEO"s do not outperform the rest of the pack and I'd suggest this is probably true with all senior level execs. Often, execs demand higher comp because the company and industry is so distasteful or has such a toxic work environment ...
In Good to Great a very scientific case was made that the home grown CEO that is committed to the company and other employees because he/she grew up there, is the best possible CEO.
i think corporations number one duty is to the shareholders, not their employees, if the stock price doesn't do well, they lose a lot of financial backing and support from them. When the stock price is good, everyone does well, that's a win win
And yet, companies that go to extremes to maximize shareholder value/payouts are often under performers over the long term. This has been verified over and over in studies of the S&P 500. Shareholders ALWAYS want short term payouts as quickly as possible and this runs counter to what produces long term results. Apple is a great example of this. Jobs never felt his primary responsibility was to shareholders ... to him it was about great products and attracting great people.
Keep in mind, HU, that 50% of all stock buying and selling activity is very short term, sometimes less than a second, buying and selling. Fewer and fewer shares are held even 6 months now. It's a trader's universe now ... most of the transactions have almost nothing to do with investing in a company ...
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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KauaiOrca
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said: 40,000$ is peanuts in California, and so is one million when you're talking about running Fortune 500 company, no one in their right mind would do it for so little, when you could go elsewhere and make many times more the same responsibility
There are millions of employees that make less than $40,000 a year. It would be a huge improvement if we got more employees in this country closer to $50,000 a year.
I think you'd be surprised how many very talented executives would jump at the opportunity to run a company for $1-2 million a year ...
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Huge Raises lead to big profits! [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22465952 - 11/02/15 09:44 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Will corporations be able to attract top level talent to keep them competitive when the compensation is only a fraction of what their competitors pay? If GM is only paying their salesman, designers, marketers a fraction of what they could make at ford, would that lead to a "talent gap"?
It would be their choice. They could go for the current system if they want. There are some possible huge morale and overall company motivation that could be gained with a less predatory wages plan. Also, customers may respond positively to companies that SHOW they really care about their employees. Possible quality gains.
There is no link whatsoever between CEO compensation and long term success of large corporations. None. Has been studied extensively. Higher paid CEO"s do not outperform the rest of the pack and I'd suggest this is probably true with all senior level execs. Often, execs demand higher comp because the company and industry is so distasteful or has such a toxic work environment ...
In Good to Great a very scientific case was made that the home grown CEO that is committed to the company and other employees because he/she grew up there, is the best possible CEO.
i think corporations number one duty is to the shareholders, not their employees, if the stock price doesn't do well, they lose a lot of financial backing and support from them. When the stock price is good, everyone does well, that's a win win
And yet, companies that go to extremes to maximize shareholder value/payouts are often under performers over the long term. This has been verified over and over in studies of the S&P 500. Shareholders ALWAYS want short term payouts as quickly as possible and this runs counter to what produces long term results. Apple is a great example of this. Jobs never felt his primary responsibility was to shareholders ... to him it was about great products and attracting great people.
Keep in mind, HU, that 50% of all stock buying and selling activity is very short term, sometimes less than a second, buying and selling. Fewer and fewer shares are held even 6 months now. It's a trader's universe now ... most of the transactions have almost nothing to do with investing in a company ...
BS, if people didn't have faith in companies, the buying would stop and the selling would continue, how does a stock like apple stay high?
You're right about the short term buying and selling, but the fact is even the short term buyers aren't gonna buy a stock if they don't expect it go up...
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KauaiOrca
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
BS, if people didn't have faith in companies, the buying would stop and the selling would continue, how does a stock like apple stay high?
You're right about the short term buying and selling, but the fact is even the short term buyers aren't gonna buy a stock if they don't expect it go up...
By far, most of the buying and selling is with indexes and derivatives that pay minimal attention to individual stocks. Most of the action moves large groups of stocks. The most active shares are the SPY's which is a buy/sell of 500 stocks simultaneously.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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qman
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Re: Huge Raises lead to big profits! [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22466384 - 11/02/15 11:53 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said: With all the baloney being said about how raising wages kills profits and the economy, here's a great story. A CEO believes his employees should, at minimum, make $70,000 a year ... He takes a huge pay cut and gives them a raise. Media predicts it will destroy his company. Instead, profits have doubled. Great leadership, great example of a CEO that values the success of his employees as much as the success of his shareholders.
http://anonhq.com/revenue-profits-double-after-ceo-took-90-pay-cut-to-set-70k-minimum-wage/
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2015/10/26/3715988/gravity-payments-revenue/
We need a lot more of this! An ownership approach of creating real prosperity rather than exploiting labor to the maximum possible. This guy deserves a Nobel Peace Prize in economics for leadership and risk taking.
In his own words, why he did it:
http://www.doitjewelry.com/09/26/dan-price-a-capitalist-solution-why-every-worker-in-america-should-make-70000/
But wouldn't his profits still have done the same regardless of his payroll?
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Huge Raises lead to big profits! [Re: qman]
#22466468 - 11/02/15 12:16 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
But wouldn't his profits still have done the same regardless of his payroll?
He believes profits are up because of the pay plan, partly because of all the positive PR it generated.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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