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Anonymous #1

Received expensive cell phones due to suspected fraud related activity
    #22460003 - 10/31/15 11:50 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

So it's been talked about in the SA forum but someone said to post on here to get any of you more legally minded shroomerites take on this, so here it is if you don't go to the SA forum.

I received a couple of iphone 6s Plus's recently out of nowhere, addressed to me, with no other paperwork other than work order and other codes on a sheet of paper inside the shipping box. Both phones are brand new, packaged with a sim card for the carrier I'd assume with my info on them.

I later received a bill also in my name, with activation and device fee's on it along with whatever plan was set up, and called to let the wireless carrier I did not open the account. They forwarded me to fraud which they didn't ask much except questions to verify my identity, asked if I had received hardware, and I had told them no. They said it was most likely stolen off the porch by a scammer who setup the bogus account, and if I find them to contact them back.

So now I have two devices, that I did find out someone at the residence had signed for, but when asked by the fraud person if any devices showed up at the billing address, I made it a point to let them know that wasn't my current living address and the residence had been empty for the last week as the owners were out of town.

I checked the serial #'s again well after the fraud call was placed, and after I put a fraud alert out on the creditor radar, and the serial #'s still show on icloud as unlocked for activation. So I am thinking these might be ok to pop out the sim cards they shipped with, sell them suckers on ebay, and make a quick $1500+ off the deal.

My first question is if this all happened as a consequence of identity theft against me, would it be illegal to sell the devices I was shipped? I was linked to an FTC site on the SA thread that said if you receive merchandise that was sent in error your under no obligation to return it, but now that it has come to light it's the outcome of possible ID theft (I still doubt this though), if it could be turned into a possible fraud charge aimed at me for possibly faking ID theft.

Secondly and probably more importantly, would carriers even go to any length to prosecute someone for phones they are practically giving away for new plans? When I spoke with the fraud person they were very nice, barely even mentioned the actual devices themselves, and just gave me a quick line about letting them know if I find the devices hidden under a bush almost jokingly at the end of the call.

What do you guys think, would it be worth to try ditching these things on eBay, or try to stick to local only? I tried locally advertising but got almost no response so it seems it'd have to be ebay, which would tie the sale to my name, and I am in serious doubt that the carrier would spend the resources working with law enforcement to get my seller information to track me down and take me to court.

Sorry for the long post, that's just all the facts as briefly as I could put them, any input?


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Invisibleenlightened seed
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Re: Received expensive cell phones due to suspected fraud related activity [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #22463008 - 11/01/15 04:10 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

wait a minute.  didn't you receive the phones? why would you say you didn't?


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Re: Received expensive cell phones due to suspected fraud related activity [Re: enlightened seed]
    #22463297 - 11/01/15 05:19 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

enlightened seed said:
wait a minute.  didn't you receive the phones? why would you say you didn't?




It's called stealing.


--------------------


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Anonymous #1

Re: Received expensive cell phones due to suspected fraud related activity [Re: Sun King]
    #22465207 - 11/02/15 01:42 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Sun King said:
Quote:

enlightened seed said:
wait a minute.  didn't you receive the phones? why would you say you didn't?




It's called stealing.




Yes. However I didn't technically receive / sign for the shipment, and actually when I was with this carrier over a decade ago, they fucked me out of tons of money with random charges on my bill and a final gigantic disconnection fee for each line. So they have stolen plenty from me.

So I could care less about these assholes taking a hit on their merch, I'm just unfamiliar with trackability of these devices, I plan to offload closer to the holidays when buying / selling really heats up so I can dump them quick and cheap. The carrier lock was never activated on the icloud site either, so I feel these devices are in the clear, but again I don't know shit about selling phones.


Edited by Anonymous (11/02/15 01:47 AM)


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Invisibleenlightened seed
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Re: Received expensive cell phones due to suspected fraud related activity [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #22467178 - 11/02/15 03:48 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Anonymous said:
Quote:

Sun King said:
Quote:

enlightened seed said:
wait a minute.  didn't you receive the phones? why would you say you didn't?




It's called stealing.




Yes. However I didn't technically receive / sign for the shipment, and actually when I was with this carrier over a decade ago, they fucked me out of tons of money with random charges on my bill and a final gigantic disconnection fee for each line. So they have stolen plenty from me.

So I could care less about these assholes taking a hit on their merch, I'm just unfamiliar with trackability of these devices, I plan to offload closer to the holidays when buying / selling really heats up so I can dump them quick and cheap. The carrier lock was never activated on the icloud site either, so I feel these devices are in the clear, but again I don't know shit about selling phones.





fuck em' their loss.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Received expensive cell phones due to suspected fraud related activity [Re: enlightened seed]
    #22468932 - 11/02/15 10:42 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

They are likely flagged as stolen.  Cell phones have a ten digit number called the MIN which does not change no matter what.  The phone sends the MIN whenever you make a call.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_identification_number

I wouldn't risk it.


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OfflineBig Worm
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Re: Received expensive cell phones due to suspected fraud related activity [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #22468991 - 11/02/15 11:02 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
They are likely flagged as stolen.  Cell phones have a ten digit number called the MIN which does not change no matter what.  The phone sends the MIN whenever you make a call.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_identification_number

I wouldn't risk it.






Yea their is a SIM Card Number and an MEID number.  Both are occasionally needed to activate a device, although some 4G devices will activate by just being turned on with the SIM card in it. 

When a device is flagged for fraud, both of those identifying numbers are in the system, and the IT Department can track if calls/texts were made from that specific device, past the date that it was reported Lost/Stolen. Thus, having evidence towards fraud or being stolen.


You received devices which have already had a plan set up for it, but were not activated.  It's connected to you by the plan, but they don't think you have the phones.

So if they end up being sold, as long as you sell them online from an account that doesn't trace back to you, sent from an address or location that isn't yours.  You might be good.


But, I don't advise it.


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Anonymous #1

Re: Received expensive cell phones due to suspected fraud related activity [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #22469297 - 11/03/15 01:47 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
They are likely flagged as stolen.  Cell phones have a ten digit number called the MIN which does not change no matter what.  The phone sends the MIN whenever you make a call.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_identification_number

I wouldn't risk it.




So it wouldn't be worth calling into the carrier from a phone # that doesn't trace back to me posing as a skeptical buyer, and ask if they are able to verify if it's good to go? Just claim a local seller posted pics of the serial / IMEI from the back of a box on a CL post, and I am a weary buyer that has a phone with an unlocked serial # on the iCloud wanting to double check its status with the carrier.

If it checks out with the carrier that I can purchase the device and add new or existing service, does that not seem like a fairly solid way to confirm they're clean right from the horses mouth?

I could just pull the sim card and use them as mini ipads around the house, but I would much rather turn then into cash if possible, if they still check out as clean in a month should these things not be in the clear?


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Anonymous #2

Re: Received expensive cell phones due to suspected fraud related activity [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #22469667 - 11/03/15 06:21 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Crime used to be so easy. :sad:


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Received expensive cell phones due to suspected fraud related activity [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #22470415 - 11/03/15 10:43 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Don't be surprised if you're later arrested and charged.  Fraud departments have long memories, and it is very common for them to later get notification that the phone was activated, only to trace it back to you.

Also, it's immoral.


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Anonymous #1

Re: Received expensive cell phones due to suspected fraud related activity [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #22470420 - 11/03/15 10:45 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

It is seriously so damn hard to make a dishonest dollar, and I would not steal or anything from another individual person, but I am pretty sure these devices are molecules in the bucket to them otherwise I would think they'd have scrutinized the signature on delivery more when talking to the fraud person.

I'll sit on them for a bit and once I see an opportunity to sell them I'll get rid of them, I just don't believe the carrier would follow a bread crumb trail / take me to court over a couple of devices they haven't even locked. It's a risk but I think the odds are well in my favor given all the factors.


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Re: Received expensive cell phones due to suspected fraud related activity [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #22470424 - 11/03/15 10:47 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

You're stealing from a bunch of individual persons.  Of course, rationalize it however you want, bro.  It's still immoral.


--------------------
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Anonymous #1

Re: Received expensive cell phones due to suspected fraud related activity [Re: Enlil]
    #22470447 - 11/03/15 10:53 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Don't be surprised if you're later arrested and charged.  Fraud departments have long memories, and it is very common for them to later get notification that the phone was activated, only to trace it back to you.

Also, it's immoral.




Morality aside, you truly believe a carrier would take me to court over a couple of devices? Wouldn't they need to subpeona eBay (if that's the route I went), get my contact info, contact local authorities to investigate, etc?

I've had my card stolen, suspects on multiple cameras emptying out my bank account, and my local police dept said 'tough shit' but you think an international carrier could have me arrested?

Coukd you explain why you believe they would go through all that trouble to hunt me down and arrest me? Wouldn't their need to be an investigation? I certainly didn't sign myself up for the phones, how could they really make the case that I committed fraud?


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Anonymous #1

Re: Received expensive cell phones due to suspected fraud related activity [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #22470474 - 11/03/15 10:58 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Also, finally, what if I stick a piece of certified mail in the mailbox to the carrier saying I have received these devices in error, and if you would like them back I will hlld them for x amount of days to ship back?

If that piece of mail slipped through the cracks, would that not put me in the free and clear, and if they do request them back then well played on their end and ship them back?


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Anonymous #2

Re: Received expensive cell phones due to suspected fraud related activity [Re: Anonymous #1] * 1
    #22470504 - 11/03/15 11:05 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

The carrier doesn't hunt you down and arrest you, the cops do. That's their job.

I own AT&T stock, so you better not be stealing from me.


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