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Anonymous

Re: The Mind Body Connection [Re: Phluck]
    #2251477 - 01/18/04 09:48 PM (20 years, 2 months ago)

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OfflineFrog
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Re: The Mind Body Connection [Re: ]
    #2251491 - 01/18/04 09:53 PM (20 years, 2 months ago)

Bring the flaws on!  I would prefer someone point out the flaws.  I, personally, didn't see any, but then I'm not a skeptic.    :wink:


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Anonymous

Re: The Mind Body Connection [Re: Phluck]
    #2251545 - 01/18/04 10:11 PM (20 years, 2 months ago)

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Anonymous

Re: The Mind Body Connection [Re: Frog]
    #2251562 - 01/18/04 10:16 PM (20 years, 2 months ago)

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: The Mind Body Connection [Re: ]
    #2251707 - 01/18/04 11:27 PM (20 years, 2 months ago)

It is interesting to note ...
What is interesting to note is that you were both hard-core Christians at one time and CERTAIN that you were right. Now both of you have shifted your point of view and are still as CERTAIN that you are right even though your current view conflicts with your earlier view.

It would do him good to remain
It will serve me no purpose whatsoever to continue this (non)discussion.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Anonymous

Re: The Mind Body Connection [Re: Swami]
    #2252249 - 01/19/04 08:05 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: The Mind Body Connection [Re: ]
    #2252254 - 01/19/04 08:08 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

"True, but most people probably don't know how to conduct such a study."

Most people don't know how, and it would be quite a large project to organize and carry out. Simply not being able to carry out a proper study does not give your study any more validity.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: The Mind Body Connection [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2252263 - 01/19/04 08:26 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

"Exactly. It's no surprise that tribal natives living in the Peruvian Jungles who are unbound by the 'science' that is pummelled into our brains from day one like we are... do just fine with their medical methods that some skeptical westerners deem ?primitive, unvalid, and unworthy?."

How come their average lifespan is so much lower, then?

While they may have people who have lived to old age, we also have people who have lived to be very old without needing any medical attention. When someone actually does encounter a health problem, modern science has proven itself to be far more effective than other methods.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Anonymous

Re: The Mind Body Connection [Re: Phluck]
    #2252269 - 01/19/04 08:32 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: The Mind Body Connection [Re: ]
    #2252286 - 01/19/04 08:46 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

I think you're unfairly attacking Swami here. The term "anecdotal evidence" is often used to describe a sample base that is far too small.

Your study consisted of two people, who judged for themselves whether or not their prayers had been answered. Even the most intelligent and discriminating people are constantly guilty of illusory correlation and confirmation bias. The only way you can avoid this is with impartial observers.

Whether or not this constitutes anecdotal evidence is up to an etymologist, and is not the issue of debate here. The studies you two conducted may be plenty for you to strengthen your faith, but they don't offer any conclusive evidence.

Also, I'd love to hear your explanation for dismissing the articles I posted.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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OfflineFrog
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Re: The Mind Body Connection [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #2252299 - 01/19/04 08:55 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

NiamhNyx said:
I've been working on conditioning myself to be comfortable in the cold for awhile and my mind has played a significant role. It isn't "mind over matter" because the body itself adapts but having a supportive attitude seems to make all the difference.




lol!

And what about "mind over mind"? Remember the movie "A Beautiful Mind"?

Based on a true story, the character played by Russell Crowe was able to go off medication, even though he was a schizophrenic, and simply keep an eye on which people were "real" and which were not "real". And he kept an eye on his delusions. He was able to go back to teaching math, or whatever it was that he was brilliant at, at a university.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Anonymous

Re: The Mind Body Connection [Re: Phluck]
    #2252364 - 01/19/04 09:39 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

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Anonymous

Re: The Mind Body Connection [Re: Phluck]
    #2252372 - 01/19/04 09:46 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: The Mind Body Connection [Re: ]
    #2252382 - 01/19/04 09:53 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

"I may have been into prayer but that does not automatically guarantee that I was into self-delusion, even if many Christians are."

This kind of self delusion is not specific to Christians or any belief group. Even the most hard nosed skeptical scientist will often make mistakes and jump to conclusions. This is precisely why studies must be properly conducted. Nobody, not you, me, or Stephen Jay Gould can be relied upon to provide good evidence when there are shortcomings in the methodologies of testing.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Anonymous

Re: The Mind Body Connection [Re: Phluck]
    #2252391 - 01/19/04 09:59 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: The Mind Body Connection [Re: ]
    #2252414 - 01/19/04 10:10 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

The premises of the initial studies, or the critiques?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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OfflineFrog
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Re: The Mind Body Connection [Re: Phluck]
    #2252421 - 01/19/04 10:14 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

Aren't there different types of testing?

I went to a Christian church that said to test God. We were to keep a journal of our specific prayers, the dates we prayed, and the dates the prayers were answered.

My prayers were recorded, as were the dates I prayed. I also recorded the dates that my prayers were answered.

Isn't this sort of like an observational study? There are different kinds of studies, right?


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Anonymous

Re: The Mind Body Connection [Re: Phluck]
    #2252423 - 01/19/04 10:14 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

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Anonymous

Re: The Mind Body Connection [Re: Frog]
    #2252437 - 01/19/04 10:19 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

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OfflineFrog
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Re: The Mind Body Connection [Re: ]
    #2252441 - 01/19/04 10:21 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks, MM.

If I divulged the experience, what premises could be incorrect?


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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