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Offlineendogenous
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Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations * 2
    #22454386 - 10/30/15 04:51 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

The current head of the US House of Representatives "Science" Committee, Lamar Smith, in 2013, appointed Rep. Paul Broun to head the Science Investigations and Oversight Committee.

Quote:

“All that stuff I was taught about evolution and embryology and Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell.”

That scientific opinion comes courtesy of Republican U.S. Rep. Paul Broun of Georgia, who also apparently sees geology as originating in the devil’s realm, since he also has said he believes the earth is only “about 9,000 years old” and “was created in six days as we know them.” We wish that what we’re about to report was a joke but, alas, it is not. Broun is a member of the House Science, Space and Technology Committee.

And thanks to an appointment by the science committee’s new chairman, U.S. Rep. Lamar Smith, Broun will lead the panel’s Subcommittee on Investigations and Oversight during the recently convened 113th Congress.
http://www.statesman.com/news/news/opinion/house-science-panel-sees-no-climate-change/nTrM2/



Yup -- someone who believes the earth was created 9000 years ago in 6 days was heading the US House of Representatives Science Investigations and Oversight Committee.

Ohhh boy.


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The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: endogenous]
    #22454394 - 10/30/15 04:53 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Republicans are not serious people


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleHobozen
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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: koods]
    #22454417 - 10/30/15 04:59 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

well that's dumb

is there like stuff they don't want us to know?


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InvisibleHobozen
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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: Hobozen]
    #22454427 - 10/30/15 05:01 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

like in Canada... they silenced the Scientists, prevented them from making their findings known to the public or something, but now that Trudeau is in, he's repealing it


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Offlineendogenous
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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: Hobozen]
    #22454440 - 10/30/15 05:04 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

And these are the people who are making laws that get people put in jail.


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The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


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InvisibleFrozenHappiness
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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: Hobozen]
    #22454448 - 10/30/15 05:05 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:


Yup -- someone who believes the earth was created 9000 years ago in 6 days was heading the US House of Representatives Science Investigations and Oversight Committee.

Ohhh boy.





It was 6000 years ago. That guy needs to get his facts straight! :crankey:

Also, WTF?


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InvisibleHobozen
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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: FrozenHappiness] * 1
    #22454461 - 10/30/15 05:08 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)



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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: FrozenHappiness]
    #22454464 - 10/30/15 05:09 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

well im not really sure how someone's religion is important.  Until science can explain how there is basically an infinite amount of matter in the universe and it keeps getting created along with the space to hold it and where it all came from then anyones guess is good enough


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We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
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Offlinekoods
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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: makaveli8x8] * 3
    #22454494 - 10/30/15 05:18 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
well im not really sure how someone's religion is important.  Until science can explain how there is basically an infinite amount of matter in the universe and it keeps getting created along with the space to hold it and where it all came from then anyones guess is good enough



No


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: koods]
    #22454495 - 10/30/15 05:19 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

yes


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We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: makaveli8x8] * 3
    #22454504 - 10/30/15 05:21 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

No, that logic is stupid and ridiculous.  Fundamentally, science doesn't "explain how" anything.  It describes, models and predicts.  Expecting perfection is a ridiculous expectation on your part.  Its a work in progress that is constantly iterating and honing.  That is not a weakness, it is science's ultimate strength.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22454509 - 10/30/15 05:23 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
well im not really sure how someone's religion is important.  Until science can explain how there is basically an infinite amount of matter in the universe and it keeps getting created along with the space to hold it and where it all came from then anyones guess is good enough




:huxleyfacepalm:


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: DieCommie] * 2
    #22454547 - 10/30/15 05:31 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

no its science asking for 1 miracle, the same dam miracle that the religious ask for.


All the shit explainations for how the universe formed, and is still forming is all just bullshit guesses.

they say matter can't be created nor destroyed, yet its pretty dam obvious both is happening.  The universe can't expand AND fill up without matter still being created, and blackholes take shit in and nothing comes out, aka destroyed.  Science will say blackholes arn't destroying it mearly so it fits there stupid little laws they wrote decades ago, aka following the science 'religion'. 

the bottom line is they can not explain the beginning, they can't even explain the 'now'.  Its all guesses and you put it at a higher 'rating' just because 'science' said it, when in reality what it all boils down to is a bunch of circle jerks in a classroom guessing.  their best guess is better than anyone elses?  when their guesses don't even add up?


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22454553 - 10/30/15 05:32 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

they say matter can't be created nor destroyed




Who says that?  That is not a principle or theorem of science...  You are betraying your ignorance.

Scientific theories make accurate predictions.  Far more accurate than "anyone's best guess".  The computer you are on now is a result of scientific theory.  Your best guess could never make a computer.


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: DieCommie]
    #22454556 - 10/30/15 05:33 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)



--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22454563 - 10/30/15 05:34 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_mass





Mass is not matter.  Matter is ill defined and not conserved.  Mass is well defined and is conserved.

From the wiki on matter...

Quote:

Matter should not be confused with mass, as the two are not quite the same in modern physics.[7] For example, mass is a conserved quantity, which means that its value is unchanging through time, within closed systems. However, matter is not conserved in such systems, although this is not obvious in ordinary conditions on Earth, where matter is approximately conserved.




Again, you betray your ignorance of basic scientific concepts.  Maybe you should head some important committee!


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: DieCommie]
    #22454588 - 10/30/15 05:39 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

incorrect, matter is a form of mass.  henceforth you are basically playing semantics and failed ontop of picking such a mundane point to argue on the broad topic presented.


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22454593 - 10/30/15 05:40 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Energy cannot be created or destroyed. Matter is just a form of energy.

energy = mass * speed of light^2


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: koods]
    #22454596 - 10/30/15 05:41 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

yah so basically what he pointed out means nothing:cookiemonster: wonderful waste of time


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Head of House [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22454603 - 10/30/15 05:44 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
incorrect, matter is a form of mass.  henceforth you are basically playing semantics and failed ontop of picking such a mundane point to argue on the broad topic presented.




So wikipedia is a source you trust when you want to make a point, but then when I quote it you claim its incorrect...  Matter is ill defined.  It has no strict scientific definition.  It a non-scientific descriptor used by laypersons.  Mass is well defined and conserved in closed systems.  The idea that it is conserved is supported by observations and also by theory relativity and Noether's theorem.  Matter is not necessarily conserved in closed systems.


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OfflineWScott
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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22454609 - 10/30/15 05:45 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

You can't even figure out matter,
don't even start with time.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: WScott]
    #22454626 - 10/30/15 05:48 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)



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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineWScott
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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: koods]
    #22454636 - 10/30/15 05:50 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

How can something not be moving?


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: WScott]
    #22454792 - 10/30/15 06:30 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Relativity


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: makaveli8x8] * 2
    #22454826 - 10/30/15 06:40 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
henceforth you are basically playing semantics




I'm needling you on a technicality.  What you should take from this is that scientific theorems, principles and theories are subtle and complicated.  Believers will take a complicated idea with subtleties, like conservation of mass or thermodynamics, they will bastardize the pop-version of it and then use that in an attempt to refute a similarly bastardized principle that conflicts with their world view.  In the end all they have done is make shit up that doesn't make sense, point out that it doesn't make sense and then declare their precious self-serving worldview vindicated.  All the while they do this while using technology and medicine that was engineered under the very principles they deny.


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InvisibleCapers
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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: DieCommie]
    #22454841 - 10/30/15 06:46 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

We need more politicians with science backgrounds.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: Capers]
    #22454890 - 10/30/15 06:54 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Paul Braun, MD:

Quote:

“God’s word is true. I’ve come to understand that. All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell. It’s lies to try to keep me and all the folks who are taught that from understanding that they need a savior. There’s a lot of scientific data that I found out as a scientist that actually show that this is really a young Earth. I believe that the Earth is about 9,000 years old. I believe that it was created in six days as we know them. That’s what the Bible says. And what I’ve come to learn is that it’s the manufacturer’s handbook, is what I call it. It teaches us how to run our lives individually. How to run our families, how to run our churches. But it teaches us how to run all our public policy and everything in society. And that’s the reason, as your congressman, I hold the Holy Bible as being the major directions to me of how I vote in Washington, D.C., and I’ll continue to do that.”




This guy is a fucking doctor?


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleVoid_Hawk
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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22455088 - 10/30/15 07:36 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
incorrect, matter is a form of mass.  henceforth you are basically playing semantics and failed ontop of picking such a mundane point to argue on the broad topic presented.





Matter is not a "form of mass" (which is meaningless), mass is a property of matter. You cannot accuse someone of playing semantics when you are the one redefining words.


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Invisiblemyc_check1212
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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: Void_Hawk]
    #22455240 - 10/30/15 08:03 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Be careful with macklemore8, if you lean to hard he will blow up your ratings calling you a rapist.


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: endogenous]
    #22455377 - 10/30/15 08:29 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Who do we have to head the "Faith Investigations and Oversight Committee."  Oh, there is none...  Oppression by the faithful is pervasive.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: koods]
    #22455526 - 10/30/15 09:05 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Republicans are not serious people





are democrats serious people?





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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22455544 - 10/30/15 09:08 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

oh look...videos.


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Offlineendogenous
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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22456397 - 10/31/15 02:41 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
well im not really sure how someone's religion is important.  Until science can explain how there is basically an infinite amount of matter in the universe and it keeps getting created along with the space to hold it and where it all came from then anyones guess is good enough



Do you believe that atoms exist? Do you believe that pure (normal) water is H2O? Do you believe that carbon usually has 6 protons, 6 neutrons, and 6 electrons?

(edit: just realized that "normal" carbon is 666. But the carbon used for carbon dating is 686)

Do you believe in DNA?

Do you disbelieve in "carbon dating"?


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The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


Edited by endogenous (10/31/15 02:50 AM)


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Offlineendogenous
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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: DieCommie]
    #22456421 - 10/31/15 03:06 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

they say matter can't be created nor destroyed




Who says that?  That is not a principle or theorem of science...  You are betraying your ignorance.

Scientific theories make accurate predictions.  Far more accurate than "anyone's best guess".  The computer you are on now is a result of scientific theory.  Your best guess could never make a computer.



Quote:

There is a scientific law called the Law of Conservation of Mass, discovered by Antoine Lavoisier in 1785. In its most compact form, it states:

matter is neither created nor destroyed.

In 1842, Julius Robert Mayer discovered the Law of Conservation of Energy. In its most compact form, it it now called the First Law of Thermodynamics:

energy is neither created nor destroyed.

In 1907 (I think), Albert Einstein announced his discovery of the equation E = mc2 and, as a consequence, the two laws above were merged into the Law of Conservation of Mass-Energy:

the total amount of mass and energy in the universe is constant.

Generally, textbooks would add, as I am doing, that mass and energy can interconvert.

An interesting historical footnote: during the radioactive decay called beta decay, tremendous amounts of energy were being produced. This was expected, but what was not was that the energy amounts released varied widely for the exact same decay process. The amounts should always have been the same. This was very puzzling to the early researchers and I believe it was Niels Bohr who proposed that the Law of Conservation of Energy was being violated. Of course, this turned out to not be the case.

The correct answer was a new particle called the "neutrino," proposed about 1930 by Wolfgang Pauli. The neutrino was finally detected in 1952 (I think) and the discoverers were able to inform Pauli, then near death due to cancer. By the way, the neutrino is a very, very important particle in modern science. You may wish to research how neutrinos were useful in learning about Supernova 1987A.

The Law of Conservation of Mass is still a useful idea in chemistry. This is because the energy changes in a chemical reaction are so tiny that they did not affect any measurements. 100 kJ is a typical value for the energy involved in a chemical reaction and it is only about 10¯9 gram. Only recently has such a small amount been able to be accurately measured. The mass loss or gain due to energy loss or gain in a chemical reaction may someday be something that is routinely measured. http://www.chemteam.info/Thermochem/Law-Cons-Mass-Energy.html





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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: endogenous] * 3
    #22456451 - 10/31/15 03:41 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I can't say if this is a big deal, after all, the US elected a man president who believes the Universe Revolves around himself.  Twice.


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:smug: [/url][/url] 
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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: endogenous] * 1
    #22456456 - 10/31/15 03:49 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

God created the heavens and the Earth. Today is much like the days of Noah in which people mock God. But God will not be mocked. His judgment is rightious and shall overtake the wicked like a sword to the naked heart of the sinner.


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Invisiblebilly jowl
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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #22456468 - 10/31/15 04:04 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Finally a voice of reason is chosen. This gives us all hope, America has turned the corner into the age of rational thinking. For we are made in God's image, not from some goddamned monkey. If we evolved from monkeys, then why would they still be around:facepalm:


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InvisibleFrozenHappiness
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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: billy jowl]
    #22456767 - 10/31/15 08:00 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

We didn't evolve FROM monkeys. We share a common ancestor WITH monkeys. You obviously don't evolution, bro.


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: FrozenHappiness] * 1
    #22456802 - 10/31/15 08:14 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

FrozenHappiness said:
We didn't evolve FROM monkeys. We share a common ancestor WITH monkeys. You obviously don't evolution, bro.





The faithful deniers are so predictable.  I described this tactic just a few posts up...
Quote:

Believers will take a complicated idea with subtleties ... they will bastardize the pop-version of it and then use that in an attempt to refute a similarly bastardized principle that conflicts with their world view.  In the end all they have done is make shit up that doesn't make sense, point out that it doesn't make sense and then declare their precious self-serving worldview vindicated.




Claims evolution means monkeys turned into man, sees monkeys still around - egotistically declares that we are made in the likeness of a god.


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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: koods]
    #22456806 - 10/31/15 08:15 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Republicans are not serious people




neither are their voters. or at least ones who vote for people like paul broun.


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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: FrozenHappiness] * 1
    #22456922 - 10/31/15 09:13 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

FrozenHappiness said:
We didn't evolve FROM monkeys. We share a common ancestor WITH monkeys. You obviously don't evolution, bro.



Oh I knows how to evolution... Just don't know how to sarcasm on the shroomery effectively.


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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: billy jowl]
    #22456927 - 10/31/15 09:15 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Laid it on a little too thick aye?  The sad thing is it seemed completely in line with evolution deniers reasoning.


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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: DieCommie]
    #22456950 - 10/31/15 09:23 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Yes, yes I believe I did. Crazy trying to be outlandish as possible, and end up actually sounding like a big portion of the population:facepalm:
I believe we may all be doomed..


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Re: Head of House [Re: billy jowl]
    #22456958 - 10/31/15 09:27 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Well that means i've spent all this time making familiy visits with blue green algae and monkies for nothing!


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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: billy jowl]
    #22456977 - 10/31/15 09:34 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

billy jowl said:
Oh I knows how to evolution... Just don't know how to sarcasm on the shroomery effectively.




Ha! My bad. Apparently I don't knows how to sarcasm either

:awehigh:


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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: millzy]
    #22456980 - 10/31/15 09:35 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

millzy said:
Quote:

koods said:
Republicans are not serious people




neither are their voters. or at least ones who vote for people like paul broun.




Democrats are not smart people.  Nor are their voters, at least the ones who voted a man into office who thinks the  Whole Universe Revolves around himself.

You see, it works both ways.


--------------------
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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: starfire_xes] * 1
    #22457050 - 10/31/15 10:05 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Quote:

millzy said:
Quote:

koods said:
Republicans are not serious people




neither are their voters. or at least ones who vote for people like paul broun.




Democrats are not smart people.  Nor are their voters, at least the ones who voted a man into office who thinks the  Whole Universe Revolves around himself.

You see, it works both ways.




it doesn't really work both ways. for one, i said republican voters who fall for the evolution/climate change/science denial line of rhetoric aren't smart people. it seems to be a given that anyone who distrusts widely accepted scientific theories is pretty basic. there are pro-science republicans.

and i really don't know what you mean about the president. but it's well established that you aren't interested in seriously discussing politics though so it's whatevs. :shrug:


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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: millzy]
    #22457137 - 10/31/15 10:26 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
henceforth you are basically playing semantics




I'm needling you on a technicality.  What you should take from this is that scientific theorems, principles and theories are subtle and complicated.  Believers will take a complicated idea with subtleties, like conservation of mass or thermodynamics, they will bastardize the pop-version of it and then use that in an attempt to refute a similarly bastardized principle that conflicts with their world view.  In the end all they have done is make shit up that doesn't make sense, point out that it doesn't make sense and then declare their precious self-serving worldview vindicated.  All the while they do this while using technology and medicine that was engineered under the very principles they deny.





This was a beautiful post. That point has been made loads of times by lots of different people, but I've never seen it done so nicely in a single paragraph. It almost brought a tear to my eye.



Here's a decent attempt at the same kind of explanation for makaveli,

http://chem.tufts.edu/answersinscience/relativityofwrong.htm

Issac Asimov wrote it when one of his English-major students was making the same kind of lazy complaints.


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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #22457153 - 10/31/15 10:32 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.GuessWork said:
That point has been made loads of times by lots of different people, but I've never seen it done so nicely in a single paragraph.




and i bookmarked that asimov essay. :mushroom2:


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Re: Head of House [Re: DieCommie]
    #22457671 - 10/31/15 01:02 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
incorrect, matter is a form of mass.  henceforth you are basically playing semantics and failed ontop of picking such a mundane point to argue on the broad topic presented.




So wikipedia is a source you trust when you want to make a point, but then when I quote it you claim its incorrect...  Matter is ill defined.  It has no strict scientific definition.  It a non-scientific descriptor used by laypersons.  Mass is well defined and conserved in closed systems.  The idea that it is conserved is supported by observations and also by theory relativity and Noether's theorem.  Matter is not necessarily conserved in closed systems.




no you said matter isn't mass, which is like saying an egg isn't protein, or vice versa to make you happy.

Anyways this is the typical attitude of science beibers.  Instead of arguing the point, you instead try to hide behind fancy definitions again negating the fact that its all best guesses including those definitions themselves.

Real simple question for you, if it wasn't for the law that says matter, or for you, mass, can't be created or destroyed, if that little law didn't exist.  Then we find out about blackholes, do you really think we would see it destroying stars and say....oh well that star its totally just you know inside that black hole?  It just kinda dispears yo but its  still there perfectly fine, maybe in pieces but u know doin wonderful?

Any logical or rational person with critical thinking skills wouldn't automatically assume its there just in fairy land.  so what happened to science when it came to black holes?  what happened to facts?  Fact is we have zero evidence to suggest that any of the matter/mass that entered that blackhole still exists, its nowhere to be seen, entire planets and solar systems just gone.  Not a single trace of evidence pointing towards any of it still existing.

That is the problem with science, they cling to old laws and try to keep them around as long as they can to try and make science seem more real and less wrong, they shun any new ideas like a religion would.  Then every once in a while when they can't do that any longer they will quietly edit a law to the next best guess.  Yet there are still a few willing to risk everything to do it, which is why we get theorys about computer simulation ect.  If science was so rock hard, that theory wouldn't exist, nor the countless others. 

The fact that there are so many theorys is proof that science doesn't know, which is my underlining point, its all guesses.  You can't touch my main point, thats why you dance around it with bullshit definitions to hide behind.


--------------------
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Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


Edited by makaveli8x8 (10/31/15 01:08 PM)


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Re: Head of House [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22457683 - 10/31/15 01:05 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

no you said matter isn't mass, which is like saying an egg isn't protein, or vice versa to make you happy.



Matter has mass, which is like saying an egg has protein. Mass is a property of matter.


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Re: Head of House [Re: koods]
    #22457714 - 10/31/15 01:15 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

hence the "vice versa", if thats all you took away from that entire paragraph, then ill just accept that you're a troll, and have no defense to the main topic which was my belief from the beginning.  you can't defend a guess.  but you try and make religions do it.  you're just hypocrites.


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


Edited by makaveli8x8 (10/31/15 01:19 PM)


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Re: Head of House [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22457765 - 10/31/15 01:28 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

You should read the essay I posted.

Scientific explanations meet much stricter requirements than religious explanations, and as a result, they're much more useful for non-masturbatory predictions and planning efforts. Religious explanations are based on common mythologies and there is absolutely no need for them to be consistent with observable reality, even though many poorly educated people expect that to be the case. Scientific explanations need to make testable predictions that are consistent with a commonly observable reality, and they have to be agreed upon by a collection of people who have put in a dedicated effort to test and falsify those predictions. Even explanations of things like the beginning of the universe, which there is a lot of debate about BTW, are based on arguments that are derived from our current evidence-based understanding of the world around us. Even if those arguments are weak, they're still leaps and bounds better than the ghost stories that are told in religious myths because they are open to the idea of being wrong and they're willing to acknowledge meaningful new information even though it means their conclusions are wrong and have to be dismissed. If anything you should be grateful that science has been wrong so often because that's how it gets better. Religious arguments have been bunk since the moment they were made and they will stay bunk for all of eternity. Truth emerges more readily from error than confusion, and anyone who can't see the value of an evidence based argument is too deeply confused to be right or wrong about the nature of the universe.


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Re: Head of House [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #22457777 - 10/31/15 01:32 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

just because a bunch of people in a room agree that its a good guess doesn't mean its not still just a guess.  Its also just as bad as religion because science will never take into consideration of a 'god' or greater being, being behind it.  If they can't even consider it that means its not truely considering everything...the same thing people fault religion with, not considering science aka the whole picture.  there's room for both


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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: koods]
    #22457800 - 10/31/15 01:37 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Republicans are not serious people



How did the universe come to be


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Re: Head of House [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22457806 - 10/31/15 01:38 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)



Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
just because a bunch of people in a room agree that its a good guess doesn't mean its not still just a guess.  Its also just as bad as religion because science will never take into consideration of a 'god' or greater being, being behind it.  If they can't even consider it that means its not truely considering everything...the same thing people fault religion with, not considering science aka the whole picture.  there's room for both




Even if scientific theories start as a guess, they still have to predict something and not be falsifiable. That's a pretty good guess.


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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: Webster10]
    #22457807 - 10/31/15 01:38 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Webster10 said:
Quote:

koods said:
Republicans are not serious people



How did the universe come to be




Thank you for proving my point.


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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: koods]
    #22457817 - 10/31/15 01:42 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Webster10 said:
Quote:

koods said:
Republicans are not serious people



How did the universe come to be




Thank you for proving my point.



Someone's butthurt. No answer? Btw I score on the liberal side. I'm just not a retarded bleeding heart.


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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: Webster10]
    #22457828 - 10/31/15 01:45 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

We don't want you


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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: koods] * 1
    #22457841 - 10/31/15 01:48 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

You are a an extreme libertarian, which is just another word for selfish misanthrope.


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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: koods]
    #22457859 - 10/31/15 01:56 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

While hilarious, your assumptions are wrong. Of course I'm more socially libertarian then authoritarian, but what you may be surprised at is that I score economically left as well.

No answer? I thought someone that denies dissenting theories so smugly would at least have a firm grasp on their own opinion.


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Re: Head of House [Re: koods]
    #22457872 - 10/31/15 02:00 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:


Even if scientific theories start as a guess, they still have to predict something and not be falsifiable. That's a pretty good guess.




religion predicts things to, like jesus coming back and you going to hell, i guess that makes them good guesses too:cookiemonster:


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Re: Head of House [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22457892 - 10/31/15 02:05 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Perfect example of terrible guesses. Christians have been predicting Jesus's return for centuries and they are always wrong


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Re: Head of House [Re: Mr.GuessWork] * 1
    #22457896 - 10/31/15 02:07 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.GuessWork said:
You should read the essay I posted.

Scientific explanations meet much stricter requirements than religious explanations, and as a result, they're much more useful for non-masturbatory predictions and planning efforts. Religious explanations are based on common mythologies and there is absolutely no need for them to be consistent with observable reality, even though many poorly educated people expect that to be the case. Scientific explanations need to make testable predictions that are consistent with a commonly observable reality, and they have to be agreed upon by a collection of people who have put in a dedicated effort to test and falsify those predictions. Even explanations of things like the beginning of the universe, which there is a lot of debate about BTW, are based on arguments that are derived from our current evidence-based understanding of the world around us. Even if those arguments are weak, they're still leaps and bounds better than the ghost stories that are told in religious myths because they are open to the idea of being wrong and they're willing to acknowledge meaningful new information even though it means their conclusions are wrong and have to be dismissed. If anything you should be grateful that science has been wrong so often because that's how it gets better. Religious arguments have been bunk since the moment they were made and they will stay bunk for all of eternity. Truth emerges more readily from error than confusion, and anyone who can't see the value of an evidence based argument is too deeply confused to be right or wrong about the nature of the universe.




this is precisely where this conversation always becomes completely retarded. here we have people justifiably criticizing religious people for attempting to have a religious discussion about science, all while attempting to criticize religion from a scientific point of view. science and religion are two entirely different continents of human interest and ideas that are equally important and you can't judge one by the other's standards. this misunderstanding is the crux of this issue, and in this regard both sides are making the same mistake.

edit: by the way, i read the asimov. good stuff. i grew up reading him (my dad loves him, so i got to read what he had laying around). :thumbup:


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger


Edited by millzy (10/31/15 02:15 PM)


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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: millzy]
    #22457938 - 10/31/15 02:22 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

millzy said:
Quote:

koods said:
Republicans are not serious people




neither are their voters. or at least ones who vote for people like paul broun.




The scary thing is that they ARE serious. They are just wrong. This applies to liberals too though.


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Re: Head of House [Re: koods]
    #22457974 - 10/31/15 02:35 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Perfect example of terrible guesses. Christians have been predicting Jesus's return for centuries and they are always wrong



People laughed at Noah building his ark on dry land for 400 years. Until it started to rain. God in his mercy will take his time to deal justice to the wicked. Right now, the martyrs of Jesus cry out constantly from the throne of Our Father in heaven, yet he spares the Earth for the sake of His saints who have not been martyred yet.

Revelation 6:
9And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Fear God. For when His justice is poured out on the Earth His wrath and righteous judgments will destroy everything you hold dear, even in an instant.


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And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Re: Head of House [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #22457989 - 10/31/15 02:41 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Why would I want to follow a god that wants me to "fear" him?


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Re: Head of House [Re: 4HO-DMT]
    #22457995 - 10/31/15 02:43 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

4HO-DMT said:
Why would I want to follow a god that wants me to "fear" him?



Says the guy with the kali decapitating mens heads avatar. :smirk:


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And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Re: Head of House [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #22457996 - 10/31/15 02:43 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I'm laughing at you for believing such a ridiculous story.



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Re: Head of House [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #22458006 - 10/31/15 02:46 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

"10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
"

yea sounds like blood thirsty Christians.


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Re: Head of House [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #22458017 - 10/31/15 02:48 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ellis Dee said:
Quote:

4HO-DMT said:
Why would I want to follow a god that wants me to "fear" him?



Says the guy with the kali decapitating mens heads avatar. :smirk:




Yep, it is symbolic for killing the ego.

Back to the fear thing. Look how well it has worked for the federal government. Nixon wanted to instill fear in people who used drugs by throwing them in jail. Yet it did nothing to stop folks from using drugs. 45 years later and the US is the prime consumer of drugs in the world. And, most of those people that use drugs hold nothing but contempt for the feds. I sea a vengeful god in the same way as I view the feds.


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Re: Head of House [Re: koods]
    #22458024 - 10/31/15 02:50 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

christianity's "predictions" are not really predictions. they're part of a jewish tradition known as apocalypticism. it's essentially jewish anti-roman propaganda. likewise, the christ myth is roman anti-semitic propaganda.

i think augustine of hippo's interpretation of revelations is the most useful; he says it's an allegory of the story of man's salvation. interesting thinker that augustine.


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I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger


Edited by millzy (10/31/15 02:51 PM)


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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: 4HO-DMT] * 2
    #22458028 - 10/31/15 02:50 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
just because a bunch of people in a room agree that its a good guess doesn't mean its not still just a guess.  Its also just as bad as religion because science will never take into consideration of a 'god' or greater being, being behind it.  If they can't even consider it that means its not truely considering everything...the same thing people fault religion with, not considering science aka the whole picture.  there's room for both




There's not room for both in the head of the Science Investigations and Oversight Committee. And being right and wrong might actually matter in that Commitee. Think "hey tech support guy, my computer won't do anything and it smells like smoke.", but on a much larger scale. Do you want that guy to respond with "That's the way god made it, sir. Have a nice day and thanks for your business."?

Since liberalism somehow got dragged into this silliness, I remember watching Bill Mayer's movie Religolous, which was mostly just a bunch of religious nutters willingly ranting about their crazy beliefs on camera. But the best interview on there was with an astronomer from the Vatican (I think he was a jesuit, which is one of the better educated branches of catholic priests). He layed out the difference between science and religion nicely, and he didn't have any trouble seeing a need to distinguish between the two of them. Hell, I remember reading about a medieval monk who did a lot of writing about the need to make a clear separation between faith and reason. I'm somewhat amused to see that so many half-assed church-goers today can't seem to do what a guy who lived in a monastery could do over a thousand years ago. Lots of people seem to really suck at being religious and at being scientific when they've got ample resources to do both. If you're a christian that can't separate science from the bible and see the value of both, then you should admit you're a bad scientist and a bad christian, because people suffer when the two can't be separated. There's more than one book that's worth reading.


Edited by Mr.GuessWork (10/31/15 02:53 PM)


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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #22458039 - 10/31/15 02:52 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

the jesuits are supreme bad asses. descartes was a jesuit.


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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: millzy]
    #22458075 - 10/31/15 03:01 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

That is a really good point about separating science and religion. After all, there is room for both. And, humans get a great deal of benefit from both of them.


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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: millzy]
    #22458178 - 10/31/15 03:24 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

millzy said:
the jesuits are supreme bad asses. descartes was a jesuit.



I just watched the exorcist last night. Nice Jesuit movie.


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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: koods]
    #22458187 - 10/31/15 03:26 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

was caras a jesuit? been awhile since i've seen that.


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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: millzy]
    #22458195 - 10/31/15 03:27 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah Georgetown U is a Jesuit school


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Re: Head of House [Re: koods] * 2
    #22458374 - 10/31/15 04:15 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
I'm laughing at you for believing such a ridiculous story.





I'm laughing at you for smugly tearing down others for their beliefs without admitting your own beliefs.


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Re: Head of House [Re: Webster10] * 2
    #22458584 - 10/31/15 05:24 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I think my beliefs are pretty clear.


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Re: Head of House [Re: makaveli8x8] * 1
    #22458801 - 10/31/15 06:20 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
Real simple question for you, if it wasn't for the law that says matter, or for you, mass, can't be created or destroyed, if that little law didn't exist. 





No, not for me.  That is the theorem.  Matter is explicitly not conserved.  Mass is.  You are absolutely wrong about the theorem of conservation of mass relating to your purported conservation of matter.  I linked you the wikipedia... I'm not making it up.  You are the one making things up.

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
Fact is we have zero evidence to suggest that any of the matter/mass that entered that blackhole still exists, its nowhere to be seen, entire planets and solar systems just gone.  Not a single trace of evidence pointing towards any of it still existing.




The gravitational pull is one piece of evidence.  The slew of phenomenon observed all support the theory.  Mass is what causes the gravity of a black hole... (and all gravitational force for that matter) 


You really have no idea what you are talking about.  You are just spewing bull shit.


Edited by DieCommie (10/31/15 06:26 PM)


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Re: Head of House [Re: koods]
    #22459940 - 10/31/15 11:29 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
I think my beliefs are pretty clear.



How did the universe come to be?


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Re: Head of House [Re: Webster10]
    #22460092 - 11/01/15 12:30 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I have no idea


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Re: Head of House [Re: koods] * 1
    #22460622 - 11/01/15 06:13 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

That isn't your belief dude. :thumbup:


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Re: Head of House [Re: koods] * 2
    #22460632 - 11/01/15 06:19 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
I have no idea



Yet you citicize others for their own belief. Sad and confused kid is sad and confused.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Head of House [Re: Webster10]
    #22460743 - 11/01/15 07:17 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

wow, really hitting home there, real personal.

very manly of you, Webster. you should be proud.


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Re: Head of House [Re: Webster10]
    #22460752 - 11/01/15 07:20 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Webster10 said:
Quote:

koods said:
I have no idea



Yet you citicize others for their own belief. Sad and confused kid is sad and confused.



Better than "I have no idea, must be god. No point in trying to figure it out"


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Re: Head of House [Re: akira_akuma] * 2
    #22460758 - 11/01/15 07:22 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
wow, really hitting home there, real personal.

very manly of you, Webster. you should be proud.



Almost as proud of that as I am of your new rating for me. And I'm the one that makes things too personal, LOL. Sad hypocrite is sad hypocrite.


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Re: Head of House [Re: koods] * 1
    #22460761 - 11/01/15 07:23 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Webster10 said:
Quote:

koods said:
I have no idea



Yet you citicize others for their own belief. Sad and confused kid is sad and confused.



Better than "I have no idea, must be god. No point in trying to figure it out"



Who in this thread has espoused that specific belief?


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Re: Head of House [Re: Webster10]
    #22460775 - 11/01/15 07:35 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Paul Broun

Quote:

I believe that the Earth is about 9,000 years old. I believe that it was created in six days as we know them. That’s what the Bible says. And what I’ve come to learn is that it’s the manufacturer’s handbook, is what I call it. It teaches us how to run our lives individually. How to run our families, how to run our churches. But it teaches us how to run all our public policy and everything in society




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Re: Head of House [Re: koods] * 1
    #22460779 - 11/01/15 07:38 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

So when does he say there's no point in trying to figure out the origin of the universe?


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Re: Head of House [Re: Webster10]
    #22460785 - 11/01/15 07:40 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell. It’s lies to try to keep me and all the folks who are taught that from understanding that they need a savior.




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Re: Head of House [Re: koods] * 2
    #22460792 - 11/01/15 07:43 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

And yet he still doesn't say that there isn't a point in investigating the Universe's origin. Your reading comprehension skills are really on full display in the past couple of posts.


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Re: Head of House [Re: Webster10] * 1
    #22460801 - 11/01/15 07:46 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Webster10 said:
Quote:

koods said:
I think my beliefs are pretty clear.



How did the universe come to be?





The universe was hatched from an egg laid by a giant purple duck 500 years ago.

BABY HITLER 2016!!!!


--------------------
Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ
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Re: Head of House [Re: Baby_Hitler] * 1
    #22460812 - 11/01/15 07:50 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Purple ducks all the way down


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Re: Head of House [Re: Webster10]
    #22460834 - 11/01/15 07:56 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Webster10 said:
And yet he still doesn't say that there isn't a point in investigating the Universe's origin. Your reading comprehension skills are really on full display in the past couple of posts.




My reading comprehension is fine. The head of the house science committee says he will reject any science that conflicts with his religious beliefs as "lies from the pits of hell."

Aren't you in college? You used to be a lot brighter.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Head of House [Re: Webster10]
    #22460846 - 11/01/15 08:00 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Webster10 said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
wow, really hitting home there, real personal.

very manly of you, Webster. you should be proud.



Almost as proud of that as I am of your new rating for me. And I'm the one that makes things too personal, LOL. Sad hypocrite is sad hypocrite.



a rating is personal? i find it to be most impersonal. my ratings change all the time. it isn't because of a personal slight, as your rating remained unchanged for a long time even with your personalisms towards me. no, it was merely changed for the fact that your post's are becoming emptier and emptier, yet you think you're king shit.

welcome to the competition.


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Re: Head of House [Re: koods] * 1
    #22460849 - 11/01/15 08:00 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

does it make you mad that religion treats your science the same way those who train in science treat religion?  You seem pretty upset for someone who doesn't know what to believe when, i guess science gave you too many options for what happened and confused you?  and having so many options clearly means science is more believable.  it might have been this, or this, or this, or this


--------------------
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Re: Head of House [Re: koods]
    #22460863 - 11/01/15 08:04 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Scientists are demons in disguise, they create an illusion of knowing that
distracts us from discovering unfiltered Knowing.  Jk


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Re: Head of House [Re: Hobozen]
    #22460890 - 11/01/15 08:12 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

it really does hinder alot of knowledge tho, so many are afraid to speak out, can't get funding for certain topics, ect ect.  its why drugs have been illegal for so long.  if science actually worked drugs would have never been able to become illegal, at the very least drugs with medical uses wouldn't have been able to be placed under non medical.

and it has to be science that did this to any doubters out there that try to blame religion, because unlike science, the government is required to separate itself from religion.  Which clearly illustrates that their minds were corrupted by bad science.  For example that drug movie/commercial that so many remember, that was presented as science, everyone gobbled it up as such.  Denie all you want, but that was science at work being used against you:cookiemonster:  Thats why science is bullshit, it can be manipulated just like religion was by kings, rewrote, ect, to fit what goverment wants.  Your shit stinks just as much as anyone elses shit.


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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Re: Head of House [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22460898 - 11/01/15 08:16 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

:facepalm:

Without science, we would have almost no medicines or drugs, your life expectancy would be 30 and you wouldn't have a computer or Internet to say stupid things.


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Re: Head of House [Re: koods]
    #22460911 - 11/01/15 08:19 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Aren't you in college? You used to be a lot brighter.



Some folks are actually smart enough to think for themselves instead of blindly accepting the communist bunk they're force fed in their social sciences requirements. While the brainwashing camp of public education can make you a :assimilate: not everyone is so weak minded to fall for it.


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Re: Head of House [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #22460916 - 11/01/15 08:21 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Isn't there a new Alex Jones video you could be watching?


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Re: Head of House [Re: koods]
    #22460918 - 11/01/15 08:21 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
:facepalm:

Without science, we would have almost no medicines or drugs, your life expectancy would be 30 and you wouldn't have a computer or Internet to say stupid things.



Without God you wouldn't have those things either. He is our creator.


--------------------
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And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Re: Head of House [Re: Webster10] * 2
    #22460919 - 11/01/15 08:21 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Webster10 said:
And yet he still doesn't say that there isn't a point in investigating the Universe's origin. Your reading comprehension skills are really on full display in the past couple of posts.



He doesn't koods is dumb. The point is having this guy as head of the science committee is like having an attorney general who never went to law school or having a defense secretary who doesn't believe ISIS exists. Patently unprepared and unfit for the job


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Re: Head of House [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22460928 - 11/01/15 08:24 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
it really does hinder alot of knowledge tho, so many are afraid to speak out, can't get funding for certain topics, ect ect.




Quote:

A formidable range of phenomena must be scientifically sifted before we effectually grasp a faculty so strange, so bewildering, and for ages so inscrutable, as the direct action of mind on mind. It has been said that nothing worth the proving can be proved, nor yet disproved. True this may have been in the past, it is true no longer. The science of our century has forged weapons of observation and analysis by which the veriest tyro may profit. Science has trained and fashioned the average mind into habits of exactitude and disciplined perception, and in so doing has fortified itself for tasks higher, wider and incomparably more wonderful than even the wisest among our ancestors imagined. Like the souls in Plato´s myth that follow the chariot of Zeus, it has ascended to a point of vision far above the earth. It is henceforth open to science to transcend all we now think we know of matter, and to gain new glimpses of a profounder scheme of Cosmic Law.

In old Egyptian days a well-known inscription was carved over the portal of the Temple of Isis: "I am whatever has been, is, or ever will be; and my veil no man hath yet lifted." Not thus do modern seekers after truth confront Nature the word that stands for the baffling mysteries of the Universe.

Steadily, unflinchingly, we strive to pierce the inmost heart of Nature, from what she is, to reconstruct what she has been, and to prophecy what she yet shall be. Veil after veil we have lifted, and her face grows more beautiful, august and wonderful with every barrier that is withdrawn.





-Sir William Crookes, OM, FRS (17 June 1832 – 4 April 1919) was an English chemist and physicist who attended the Royal College of Chemistry, London, and worked on spectroscopy. He was a pioneer of vacuum tubes, inventing the Crookes tube which was made in 1875. Crookes was the inventor of the Crookes radiometer,[1] which today is made and sold as a novelty item.


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Re: Head of House [Re: koods] * 1
    #22460934 - 11/01/15 08:25 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Webster10 said:
And yet he still doesn't say that there isn't a point in investigating the Universe's origin. Your reading comprehension skills are really on full display in the past couple of posts.




My reading comprehension is fine. The head of the house science committee says he will reject any science that conflicts with his religious beliefs as "lies from the pits of hell."

Aren't you in college? You used to be a lot brighter.



I don't see how personally rejecting a theory equivocates to not believing there is a point in investigating the origin of the universe.

Implying that I'm dumb for pointing out your misrepresentations doesn't make you any less of a fool.


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Re: Head of House [Re: ohcrapitsnico] * 1
    #22460940 - 11/01/15 08:26 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ohcrapitsnico said:
Quote:

Webster10 said:
And yet he still doesn't say that there isn't a point in investigating the Universe's origin. Your reading comprehension skills are really on full display in the past couple of posts.



He doesn't koods is dumb. The point is having this guy as head of the science committee is like having an attorney general who never went to law school or having a defense secretary who doesn't believe ISIS exists. Patently unprepared and unfit for the job



Agreed, the guy sounds straight retarded.


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Re: Head of House [Re: koods]
    #22460952 - 11/01/15 08:28 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I
Quote:

koods said:
Paul Broun

Quote:

I believe that the Earth is about 9,000 years old. I believe that it was created in six days as we know them. That’s what the Bible says. And what I’ve come to learn is that it’s the manufacturer’s handbook, is what I call it. It teaches us how to run our lives individually. How to run our families, how to run our churches. But it teaches us how to run all our public policy and everything in society







This guy is an idiot and still some people can't figure out what he's saying.

Let me paraphrase: "we don't need science because all the answers are in the bible." It's pretty fucking clear.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Invisibleohcrapitsnico
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Re: Head of House [Re: Ellis Dee] * 1
    #22460956 - 11/01/15 08:29 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ellis Dee said:
Some folks are actually smart enough to think for themselves instead of blindly accepting the communist bunk they're force fed in their social sciences requirements. While the brainwashing camp of public education can make you a :assimilate: not everyone is so weak minded to fall for it.



Quote:

Ellis Dee said:
Without God you wouldn't have those things either. He is our creator.



Exchanging one brainwashing for another. :brilliant:


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Head of House [Re: koods]
    #22460957 - 11/01/15 08:30 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

yeah, maybe his deeply held religious belief's will only further his attempts to try and scientifically prove himself wrong because...that's what everyone does, right?


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Head of House [Re: Webster10] * 1
    #22460964 - 11/01/15 08:32 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Webster10 said:
Agreed, the guy sounds straight retarded.



Psalm 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God...

Yes, its foolish to not believe in a creator because by simply looking around is evidence everywhere of things and people who were all created. But this is a modern deception, related to the communist ideology of worshipping the state. The communist wants the state to take the place of God in the lives and hearts of people, to be a comforting big brother always there for your needs and wants. Its a shame, buts its becoming really common here.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineWebster10
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Re: Head of House [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22460973 - 11/01/15 08:34 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
Quote:

Webster10 said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
wow, really hitting home there, real personal.

very manly of you, Webster. you should be proud.



Almost as proud of that as I am of your new rating for me. And I'm the one that makes things too personal, LOL. Sad hypocrite is sad hypocrite.



a rating is personal? i find it to be most impersonal. my ratings change all the time. it isn't because of a personal slight, as your rating remained unchanged for a long time even with your personalisms towards me. no, it was merely changed for the fact that your post's are becoming emptier and emptier, yet you think you're king shit.

welcome to the competition.



:wonka:


--------------------
:leaf: :usa:


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Head of House [Re: koods]
    #22460975 - 11/01/15 08:34 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Let me paraphrase: "we don't need science because all the answers are in the bible." It's pretty fucking clear.




I agree.  He is closed minded, anti-science and not fit for the job.


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OfflineWebster10
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Re: Head of House [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #22461016 - 11/01/15 08:43 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ellis Dee said:
Quote:

Webster10 said:
Agreed, the guy sounds straight retarded.



Psalm 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God...

Yes, its foolish to not believe in a creator because by simply looking around is evidence everywhere of things and people who were all created. But this is a modern deception, related to the communist ideology of worshipping the state. The communist wants the state to take the place of God in the lives and hearts of people, to be a comforting big brother always there for your needs and wants. Its a shame, buts its becoming really common here.



Sorry to break this to you, but you're delusional. Even if it may be contradictory to your conspiracy theories, there is no government-driven plot to fake science in an attempt to replace God's place as the people's savior.


--------------------
:leaf: :usa:


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OfflineWebster10
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Re: Head of House [Re: koods]
    #22461022 - 11/01/15 08:44 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
I
Quote:

koods said:
Paul Broun

Quote:

I believe that the Earth is about 9,000 years old. I believe that it was created in six days as we know them. That’s what the Bible says. And what I’ve come to learn is that it’s the manufacturer’s handbook, is what I call it. It teaches us how to run our lives individually. How to run our families, how to run our churches. But it teaches us how to run all our public policy and everything in society







This guy is an idiot and still some people can't figure out what he's saying.

Let me paraphrase: "we don't need science because all the answers are in the bible." It's pretty fucking clear.



No one cares about your misrepresentations that you deem as "paraphrasing." You made something up, you got called out. Accept it, and let it flow.


--------------------
:leaf: :usa:


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Head of House [Re: Webster10]
    #22461039 - 11/01/15 08:48 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Webster10 said:
Sorry to break this to you, but you're delusional. Even if it may be contradictory to your conspiracy theories, there is no government-driven plot to fake science in an attempt to replace God's place as the people's savior.



Its called marxism. The marxist philosophy has 10 pillars or planks, and is athiest. Marxist philosphers including Marx himself have written extensivly on this subject. And yes, governments have conspired to do this before, look at the Soviet example. Look into it.

Edit to add: Do you have any doubt that our universities are full of cultural marxists and that they are teaching this to their students?

Back when I was at my university the only conservatives were in the business college where I majored. I had a couple profs who were honest about being socialists or marxists. They didn't even hide it.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


Edited by Ellis Dee (11/01/15 08:57 AM)


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InvisibleHobozen
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Re: Head of House [Re: Ellis Dee] * 3
    #22461057 - 11/01/15 08:53 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ellis Dee said:
Quote:

Webster10 said:
Sorry to break this to you, but you're delusional. Even if it may be contradictory to your conspiracy theories, there is no government-driven plot to fake science in an attempt to replace God's place as the people's savior.



Its called marxism. The marxist philosophy has 10 pillars or planks, and is athiest. Marxist philosphers including Marx himself have written extensivly on this subject. And yes, governments have conspired to do this before, look at the Soviet example. Look into it.




“There will be, in the next generation or so, a pharmacological method of making people love their servitude, and producing dictatorship without tears, so to speak, producing a kind of painless concentration camp for entire societies, so that people will in fact have their liberties taken away from them, but will rather enjoy it, because they will be distracted from any desire to rebel by propaganda or brainwashing, or brainwashing enhanced by pharmacological methods. And this seems to be the final revolution”

- Huxley

“Sometimes people hold a core belief that is very strong. When they are
presented with evidence that works against that belief, the new
evidence cannot be accepted. It would create a feeling that is
extremely uncomfortable, called cognitive dissonance. And because it
is so important to protect the core belief, they will rationalize,
ignore and even deny anything that doesn't fit in with the core belief.”

― Frantz Fanon


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Head of House [Re: Hobozen]
    #22461085 - 11/01/15 08:59 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

"...A surplus cost--surely there is something to Marx and Engels, to cover this. A demand like 'addiction', having nothing to do with real pain, real economic needs, unrelated to production or labor...we need fewer of these unknowns, not more."

- Wimpe


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: Head of House [Re: koods]
    #22461173 - 11/01/15 09:20 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
:facepalm:

Without science, we would have almost no medicines or drugs, your life expectancy would be 30 and you wouldn't have a computer or Internet to say stupid things.




science doesn't get to claim every advancement in human history buddy.  Some of it is just smart people being smart and figuering shit out:cookiemonster:


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Head of House [Re: koods]
    #22461301 - 11/01/15 09:51 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Webster10 said:
And yet he still doesn't say that there isn't a point in investigating the Universe's origin. Your reading comprehension skills are really on full display in the past couple of posts.




My reading comprehension is fine. The head of the house science committee says he will reject any science that conflicts with his religious beliefs as "lies from the pits of hell."

Aren't you in college? You used to be a lot brighter.





so he's taking the same stance as the IPCC and the current head of the
house science committee, the rejection of any science that doesnt fit
with their beliefs


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Head of House [Re: makaveli8x8] * 1
    #22461341 - 11/01/15 09:57 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
Quote:

koods said:
:facepalm:

Without science, we would have almost no medicines or drugs, your life expectancy would be 30 and you wouldn't have a computer or Internet to say stupid things.




science doesn't get to claim every advancement in human history buddy.  Some of it is just smart people being smart and figuering shit out:cookiemonster:





turmeric and soursop cure cancer and 900% of the illnesses we know of today, if you
cant be cured with those, organic apple cider vinegar and baking soda work well
but of course, chemtrails, global warming, monsanto, alien visitation and
abductions, crop circles, jet fuel cant melt steel beams


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OfflineWScott
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Re: Head of House [Re: Prisoner#1] * 1
    #22461623 - 11/01/15 11:00 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
turmeric and soursop cure cancer and 900% of the illnesses we know of today, if you
cant be cured with those, organic apple cider vinegar and baking soda work well
but of course, chemtrails, global warming, monsanto, alien visitation and
abductions, crop circles, jet fuel cant melt steel beams




I would love to hear your opinion on South American shamanic tribes using psychotropics to communicate with plant spirits, who in turn told them of other plants to use for not only spiritual but also practical purposes. Realism doesn't have to be the negation of imagination, y'kno.


--------------------


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Invisiblemillzy
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Re: Head of House [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #22461625 - 11/01/15 11:01 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ellis Dee said:
Quote:

Webster10 said:
Agreed, the guy sounds straight retarded.



Psalm 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God...

Yes, its foolish to not believe in a creator because by simply looking around is evidence everywhere of things and people who were all created. But this is a modern deception, related to the communist ideology of worshipping the state. The communist wants the state to take the place of God in the lives and hearts of people, to be a comforting big brother always there for your needs and wants. Its a shame, buts its becoming really common here.




or you can look at god from the perspective of anselm, the archbishop of canterbury, who argues that because god is incorrigibly real - real in the sense that god is an idea; ideas are real in a certain sense, therefore the idea of god is real in that same sense - it does not follow to disbelieve in god, and only a fool would reject the reality of god. the question then is not whether or not god is real, but rather if he is absolutely real, existent in every category of being, beyond the incorrigible realm. and what follows from that - for me at least - is whether or not that distinction is actually important.

medieval theology aside, it doesn't seem to me that there is some grand, sinister conspiracy to replace science with religion. as i've mentioned, i think it's more that some scientists are prone to misapprehend religion by analyzing it in scientific terms. likewise, some extremely devout religious people are prone to misapprehend science by analyzing it in terms of their own religious traditions. both cases seem to be matters of ignorance. besides, there are many scientists who have reconciled their faith with their work. it's really not that difficult to do if you understand the two are separate areas of human concern, at least in practice.

but the appointment of anyone who is so blatantly hostile towards science ought to be deeply troublesome to anyone who cares about it. i certainly do. science cannot solve all of our problems, and it cannot answer all of our questions, but its methods and practitioners are highly valuable, especially when we're at such a crucial point in human history where science can provide solutions to some very real and very scary problems we're going to soon be facing.


Edited by millzy (11/01/15 11:16 AM)


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: Head of House [Re: Prisoner#1] * 1
    #22464047 - 11/01/15 07:57 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
Quote:

koods said:
:facepalm:

Without science, we would have almost no medicines or drugs, your life expectancy would be 30 and you wouldn't have a computer or Internet to say stupid things.




science doesn't get to claim every advancement in human history buddy.  Some of it is just smart people being smart and figuering shit out:cookiemonster:





turmeric and soursop cure cancer and 900% of the illnesses we know of today, if you
cant be cured with those, organic apple cider vinegar and baking soda work well
but of course, chemtrails, global warming, monsanto, alien visitation and
abductions, crop circles, jet fuel cant melt steel beams





i guess you find the wheel, fire, ect ect to not be very important?  science had nothing to do with those discoverys.  99% of the shit people think science is responsible for its not.  If they didn't sit down and create a theory about it first, science really isn't responsible for it in my book, maybe a few exceptions to that rule but overall there's a huge difference between a science geek using theorys, and some dude in a corn field rolling rocks around and learned the round ones rolled better.  It goes much much further than that obviously but anyways im sure science trys to claim everything but that is very incorrect in my book.  Humans came a very long way without it, even after they developed scientific theorys alot is still learned and discovered by people who havn't even used it before.  Science trying to claim trial and error all for itself, no just no.  Religion used trial and error long before science was ever defined, so if it belongs to anybody it belongs to religion.


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Head of House [Re: makaveli8x8] * 1
    #22464069 - 11/01/15 08:00 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

science doesnt have to start with a hypothesis, model or theory, discoveries can be
purely accidental but it doesnt change the fact that there is still science behind it
we use science to explain those things we knew about but didnt previously know the
methods by which they worked at their discovery/invention


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Re: Head of House [Re: Prisoner#1] * 1
    #22464805 - 11/01/15 10:46 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

right but science acts like it had something, anything at all, to do with shit that it wasn't even around for.  Its like saying hey there's this new thing called magic, and it explains every invention, religion, everything mankind has ever done, and now that i named it, this magic stuff gets to claim all those previous things for itself, it takes full credit for it all!

doesn't make sense bro, just doesn't.  you're defending it, by saying "science says".....blah blah blah you don't defend it by pointing out what science says.......magic says it explains everything thats totally why magic gets to claim everything it wasn't even around for:cookiemonster:


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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Re: Head of House [Re: makaveli8x8] * 1
    #22464828 - 11/01/15 10:54 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

the other point that i was getting at is science defined something that humans do regardless.  People were figuering shit out long before 'science'.  Some dude comes along, defines what were already doing with a word and then claims all inventions under said name, then takes it a step further and lumps 'science' in with basically a religion that says you can only study such and such, and then all future science needs to meet certain rules except all the shit we learned in the past wasn't based on those rules.  its been turned into a god dam religion and just like religions its filled with corruption and bullshit. Then, when people talk about science they talk about it in such a way that its something seperate, like something you have to learn and study and something so special and different than religion.


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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Re: Head of House [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22465003 - 11/01/15 11:54 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

You don't get it


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Re: Head of House [Re: koods] * 1
    #22465010 - 11/01/15 11:56 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

you don't even deserve to be in this thread when you refuse to put your beliefs on the table.  You're more scared of your scientific beliefs getting shook than u are of guns:cookiemonster:


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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Re: Head of House [Re: makaveli8x8] * 1
    #22465021 - 11/01/15 11:59 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

My beliefs are irrelevant, except that my belief that someone who believes that the bible is the user manual for planet earth should not be the head of the science committee.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Re: Head of House [Re: koods] * 1
    #22465034 - 11/02/15 12:05 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

his personal belief shouldn't matter, all that matters is his ability to seperate his personal beliefs from his job, do you happen to know his ability in that area?

Im sure you have no problem with a gay couple raising straight kids?  By your same logic you should fear them being parents to straight kids, since im of the belief that children are more important to society than a science committee


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Head of House [Re: koods]
    #22465041 - 11/02/15 12:09 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
My beliefs are irrelevant,



OK

Quote:

koods said:
except that my belief that...



OK

:sherlock:

So let me get this straight, because I'm a little bit confused. Your beliefs are irrelevant. Got it! Except that your opinions are relevant? And especially relevant to how other people and national governments should behave?


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Offlineendogenous
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Re: Head of House [Re: koods]
    #22465244 - 11/02/15 02:21 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Webster10 said:
And yet he still doesn't say that there isn't a point in investigating the Universe's origin. Your reading comprehension skills are really on full display in the past couple of posts.




My reading comprehension is fine. The head of the house science committee says he will reject any science that conflicts with his religious beliefs as "lies from the pits of hell."

Aren't you in college? You used to be a lot brighter.



And anyone who thinks the earth is 9000 years old has to believe that carbon dating is fraud.

I have to wonder how far Broun would go -- DNA, atomic energy, space travel -- all lies from the pit of hell?


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


Edited by endogenous (11/02/15 02:22 AM)


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Offlineendogenous
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Re: Head of House [Re: ohcrapitsnico]
    #22465253 - 11/02/15 02:32 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ohcrapitsnico said:
Quote:

Webster10 said:
And yet he still doesn't say that there isn't a point in investigating the Universe's origin. Your reading comprehension skills are really on full display in the past couple of posts.



He doesn't koods is dumb. The point is having this guy as head of the science committee is like having an attorney general who never went to law school or having a defense secretary who doesn't believe ISIS exists. Patently unprepared and unfit for the job



Koods isn't dumb - but the rest of your post is "spot on".

I'd add -- it's like having an atheist appointed Pope.

(Not that I think that's a bad idea.)


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


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Offlineendogenous
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Re: Head of House [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22465264 - 11/02/15 02:44 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
Quote:

koods said:
:facepalm:

Without science, we would have almost no medicines or drugs, your life expectancy would be 30 and you wouldn't have a computer or Internet to say stupid things.




science doesn't get to claim every advancement in human history buddy.  Some of it is just smart people being smart and figuering shit out:cookiemonster:



No - actually -- smart people figuring shit out is called "waste removal science".


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


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OfflineTurtletotem
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Re: Head of House [Re: endogenous]
    #22465593 - 11/02/15 07:31 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Nice discussion, but isn't it a tad worrying that the scientiffic powerhouse of the 20th century has fallen like this?


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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: Head of House [Re: Turtletotem]
    #22465709 - 11/02/15 08:00 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

It's amazing that so many of you guys are struggling with the idea of a separation between church and state. Koods' beliefs, i.e. his Religious beliefs, are irrelevant because this is about putting a guy in a position of power over our scientific developments who knows even less about science than most of you seem to. What this idiot believes about the beginning of the universe does matter... because he can't separate it from what he needs to believe about the nature of the universe now to competently do his job, and that is going to fuck up the world. Putting this guy in that position is like asking the Amish to build a website for you.

To all of you guys who are defending this politician's appointment, what educational backgrounds do you have? I'm getting the feeling that there's a lot of residual butthurt in the air from suffering through high school chemistry or something. It seems like lots of you are having trouble understanding the basics of what "the head of the Science Investigations and Oversight Committee" is expected to do. I'll give you a hint. Belligerently denying evolution and basic geological discoveries are all good indicators of complete incompetence for the position. You guys sound like you'd trust an airplane designer who didn't believe in gravity if he quoted the bible. People's beliefs matter if they affect their ability to do their job, and this is one of the cases where that's going to happen. This isn't about your church fairy-tales or anybody's religion, and it's completely vain to try to make it about religion. It's about this politician enforcing his belief in bunk science on a committee that's supposed to prevent that from happening.


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Re: Head of House [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #22465728 - 11/02/15 08:05 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Take away all the politics, the grandstanding, the religious influences and the your-side-my-side mentality, and what it boils down to is that an incompetent has been put in a place he has no business being.

Or is that just me?


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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: makaveli8x8] * 1
    #22465739 - 11/02/15 08:09 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Science is a modern religion that requires far more faith than any of the others, and is full of more deluded zealots than all the others combined.


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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: Srirachi] * 1
    #22465767 - 11/02/15 08:23 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Srirachi said:
Science is a modern religion that requires far more faith than any of the others, and is full of more deluded zealots than all the others combined.




That is a pretty big stretch. Are you really tying to compare a dude that works at NASA with the combination of a Muslim extremest suicide bomber, a christian scientist who lets his kid die from pneumonia, AND a guy who insists that there's not a rock on the planet that's older than a few thousand years? It's a lot harder to be deluded when you admit that you might be wrong.


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Re: Head of House [Re: Turtletotem] * 1
    #22465866 - 11/02/15 09:05 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Turtletotem said:
Take away all the politics, the grandstanding, the religious influences and the your-side-my-side mentality, and what it boils down to is that an incompetent has been put in a place he has no business being.

Or is that just me?





so it's like the IPCC and the global warming alarmists, reject the things you
choose not to believe in because it doesnt fit your personal views, how can you
condemn the same thing you support


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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: Mr.GuessWork] * 2
    #22465871 - 11/02/15 09:08 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.GuessWork said:
Quote:

Srirachi said:
Science is a modern religion that requires far more faith than any of the others, and is full of more deluded zealots than all the others combined.




That is a pretty big stretch. Are you really tying to compare a dude that works at NASA with the combination of a Muslim extremest suicide bomber, a christian scientist who lets his kid die from pneumonia, AND a guy who insists that there's not a rock on the planet that's older than a few thousand years? It's a lot harder to be deluded when you admit that you might be wrong.





have you met the true believers of science, they're just like the religious
zealots, global warming is real, there's a scientific consensus but GMOs cause
cancer because one fraud published a paper claiming it does even though it goes
against this same scientific consensus


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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22466140 - 11/02/15 10:43 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

sounds alot like religion, where alot of the followers choose to only conform to the rules they feel are important to them while ignoring alot of the other rules.

at the end of the day everything is flawed, science flat out is not better than religion and vice versa,  thats why everyone just needs to fuck off and everyone just mind their own business.  Problem is every 'cult following' has to try and make their 'group' sound better.  and its like i said, there's room for both, just because the guy has a religion doesn't mean he doesn't know what science is, doesn't mean he isn't fit for the job.  Until science proves beyond a shadow of a doubt how the universe was created, where all the shit came from, and where everything goes, its all a guess, and 'a god' which could just be a highly evolved being or whatever/ having something to do with it is just as possible as any other explanation.

but your examples of sarcasm or whatever, are good examples of science holding the world back, not that i agree with gmo's, or your sarcasm on global warming, but it works to prove the point when you believe in science so religiously nothing gets done because your constantly waiting for some piece of paper from the science community, for a politician to wipe his ass with


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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22466164 - 11/02/15 10:50 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
sounds alot like religion, where alot of the followers choose to only conform to the rules they feel are important to them while ignoring alot of the other rules.

at the end of the day everything is flawed, science flat out is not better than religion and vice versa,  thats why everyone just needs to fuck off and everyone just mind their own business.  Problem is every 'cult following' has to try and make their 'group' sound better.  and its like i said, there's room for both, just because the guy has a religion doesn't mean he doesn't know what science is, doesn't mean he isn't fit for the job.  Until science proves beyond a shadow of a doubt how the universe was created, where all the shit came from, and where everything goes, its all a guess, and 'a god' which could just be a highly evolved being or whatever/ having something to do with it is just as possible as any other explanation.

but your examples of sarcasm or whatever, are good examples of science holding the world back, not that i agree with gmo's, or your sarcasm on global warming, but it works to prove the point when you believe in science so religiously nothing gets done because your constantly waiting for some piece of paper from the science community, for a politician to wipe his ass with




both science and religion are mistaken in criticizing the other by the standards of their own side. but that doesn't invalidate either pursuit. different games with different goals.

broun's appointment is a travesty.


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Re: Head of House [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22466178 - 11/02/15 10:53 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Turtletotem said:
Take away all the politics, the grandstanding, the religious influences and the your-side-my-side mentality, and what it boils down to is that an incompetent has been put in a place he has no business being.

Or is that just me?





so it's like the IPCC and the global warming alarmists, reject the things you
choose not to believe in because it doesnt fit your personal views, how can you
condemn the same thing you support




I support what now?
You trying to pull my leg here, Pris?


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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: millzy]
    #22466189 - 11/02/15 10:56 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

millzy said:
Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
sounds alot like religion, where alot of the followers choose to only conform to the rules they feel are important to them while ignoring alot of the other rules.

at the end of the day everything is flawed, science flat out is not better than religion and vice versa,  thats why everyone just needs to fuck off and everyone just mind their own business.  Problem is every 'cult following' has to try and make their 'group' sound better.  and its like i said, there's room for both, just because the guy has a religion doesn't mean he doesn't know what science is, doesn't mean he isn't fit for the job.  Until science proves beyond a shadow of a doubt how the universe was created, where all the shit came from, and where everything goes, its all a guess, and 'a god' which could just be a highly evolved being or whatever/ having something to do with it is just as possible as any other explanation.

but your examples of sarcasm or whatever, are good examples of science holding the world back, not that i agree with gmo's, or your sarcasm on global warming, but it works to prove the point when you believe in science so religiously nothing gets done because your constantly waiting for some piece of paper from the science community, for a politician to wipe his ass with




both science and religion are mistaken in criticizing the other by the standards of their own side. but that doesn't invalidate either pursuit. different games with different goals.

broun's appointment is a travesty.




so your saying a person can't believe in science and religion?  because thats pretty much what i do, i think both are wrong and both are right in certain ways, its almost like your saying science can't prove that a god exists one day?  which would be false, someone could have created the universe, one theory is simulation theory


--------------------
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We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22466214 - 11/02/15 11:01 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Science and religion should feed eachother instead of this tribal bullshit but whatever.


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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22466257 - 11/02/15 11:14 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:

so your saying a person can't believe in science and religion?  because thats pretty much what i do, i think both are wrong and both are right in certain ways, its almost like your saying science can't prove that a god exists one day?  which would be false, someone could have created the universe, one theory is simulation theory




i'm saying that each field serves its own purpose and does not necessarily contradict the other, and that the assumption that the two are incompatible is founded on ignorance and ideological blindness.

some of our greatest scientists have been devoutly religious. some of our first scientists were priests, e.g. descartes. the cartesian view, in spite of, or perhaps especially because of its flaws laid the initial groundwork for the scientific method. this set the stage for locke, berkely, newton, kant etc. early modern philosophy is generally rooted in religion.

i don't really know how to respond to your comment about whether or not science can prove god exists. that really depends on how you define the term and what would count for evidence. and it's really all beside the point because you're taking a scientific approach to god, which is a mistaken point of view. see above.


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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22466290 - 11/02/15 11:25 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Mr.GuessWork said:
Quote:

Srirachi said:
Science is a modern religion that requires far more faith than any of the others, and is full of more deluded zealots than all the others combined.




That is a pretty big stretch. Are you really tying to compare a dude that works at NASA with the combination of a Muslim extremest suicide bomber, a christian scientist who lets his kid die from pneumonia, AND a guy who insists that there's not a rock on the planet that's older than a few thousand years? It's a lot harder to be deluded when you admit that you might be wrong.





have you met the true believers of science, they're just like the religious
zealots, global warming is real, there's a scientific consensus but GMOs cause
cancer because one fraud published a paper claiming it does even though it goes
against this same scientific consensus




Consensus is pretty rare in the new parts of science. The vast majority of people who study global warming stuff agree that the predictions have merit (I don't know much about it personally, but I trust them over the bible-thumping nay-sayers). On the other hand, one guy publishing a paper about GMOs and cancer doesn't count as science. Science requires a community so people can critically exam evidence and discuss it with other people who have informed opinions.

I have no idea what you mean by "true believers in science". Maybe you're talking about crazy people who believe in some sort of psuedoscientific religious thing, or maybe you're talking about people who make scientific claims like they're infallible? People like to use sciencey sounding concepts when they're pitching bullshit too because it has an air of credibility, and most people are too scared to risk admitting that they're wrong. It's a common propaganda technique too. None of that stuff is science though. Anybody who doesn't believe in science is going to have some serious trouble explaining the world around them since pretty much everything we've built is based in some sort of science.


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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #22466323 - 11/02/15 11:38 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

but wait, i thought science claimed every invention, including ones before science was created, which includes single people cracked out in their garages discovering shit very similar to the one guy publishing a paper that you claim isn't science now.  you science people always want the best of both worlds, you claim all the inventions, pretend religion is idiotic and those following it apparently are to stupid to know what science is.  Say religion didn't help create anything, and then claim all of sciences failures weren't really science to begin with:obama:  must be nice to claim everything and denie anything, all the while pretending science isn't as bad as religion


--------------------
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We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


Edited by makaveli8x8 (11/02/15 11:49 AM)


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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22466385 - 11/02/15 11:53 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

You're mixing up science and scientism, tho.
One comes from natural philosophy and religious learning and has developed a certain set of rules and assumptions that make the whole thing work.

The other is some kind of new-age religion where every member denies it is.

Weird.


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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: makaveli8x8] * 1
    #22466479 - 11/02/15 12:19 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
but wait, i thought science claimed every invention, including ones before science was created, which includes single people cracked out in their garages discovering shit very similar to the one guy publishing a paper that you claim isn't science now.  you science people always want the best of both worlds, you claim all the inventions, pretend religion is idiotic and didn't help create anything, and then claim all of sciences failures weren't really science to begin with:obama:




Nobody said that all inventions were scientific, but most of what you see around you in everyday life has it's roots in some kind of scientific effort. Also, you're thinking biblically again. Science wasn't created; it gradually evolved from human attempts to explain the world. Lots of those early attempts were mystical explanations that relied on things like anthropomorphism and other nice human relatable explanations, but gradually we got better at telling stories that made sense, and eventually we decided it was important that we be able to test our stories to see if they were just bullshit or not. There was a lot of philosophical work that was put into our thinking to make it more useful than pointing the finger at the sky and blaming shit on an all-powerful all-knowing dude that made us. Religious myths don't have that same frame work.

As to you other point, my original point was that one person's claim doe not count as science. That claim has to undergo a critical review process before it's accepted. That's the whole point of publication: to figure out which claims are worth investigating and taking seriously, and to figure out which claims are going to be ignored. I highly doubt that anybody ever cracked out a paper in their garage linking something as complex and poorly understood as GMO foods to something else as complex and poorly understood as cancer. That kind of research is really hard to do with with large numbers of subjects, hundreds millions of dollars in funding, and with many groups of scientists studying the question from different angles. Sometimes people discover a new physics application or effect in their garages, but large scale medical research does not happen in a person's garage. And even when somebody does discover something in their garage, they introduce it to other scientists to check out before idiots start telling ghost stories about what happened. The point of doing science is to discover something useful (or something that leads to something useful), and ghost stories make that harder than it has to be. That's one of the reasons that there needs to be a separation between faith and reason. You can't have people running around yelling bullshit and crying wolf to people who depend on the well tested and well examined information.


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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: Mr.GuessWork] * 1
    #22466494 - 11/02/15 12:25 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

actually they did say that which is why ive been saying it for 5 pages straight and only just now does someone try to say otherwise because again you want the best of both worlds, it was fine earlier because it suited peoples points in discrediting religion, now when it discredits science....best of both worlds.

w/e im done with this thread, had all the fun its gunna provide since koods knew better than to commit:cookiemonster:


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We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: makaveli8x8] * 1
    #22466501 - 11/02/15 12:27 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

They always get frustrated and leave before they learn anything.:sad:


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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: Mr.GuessWork] * 1
    #22466507 - 11/02/15 12:30 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

sorry i meant to post this earlier, but forgot had it open in a seperate tab

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/10/29/pope-francis-may-believe-in-evolution-but-42-percent-of-americans-do-not/

ill leave with that


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We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: makaveli8x8] * 1
    #22467559 - 11/02/15 05:33 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
sounds alot like religion, where alot of the followers choose to only conform to the rules they feel are important to them while ignoring alot of the other rules.



Hey -- if you choose to disbelieve what science says - that's your business.

Personally, I don't want a baboon using naptha to extract Acacia in my house. If you have good fire insurance -- then go for it.


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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: endogenous]
    #22467645 - 11/02/15 05:50 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Ancient 'Cultic' Temple, 10,000-Year-Old Building Discovered Outside Jerusalem -- http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/26/ancient-cultic-temple-jerusalem_n_4344246.html

Ooops -- sorry archaeologists -- according to the US Investigations Committee on Science - this structure couldn't exist since it's older than 9000 years.

(From http://listverse.com/2013/11/15/10-oldest-artifacts-of-their-type-ever-found/)
The earliest example of people displaying decoration for its own sake is from 100,000 years ago. -- Nope.

the oldest evidence we have of humans using containers was not for carrying water or food, but for mixing paint around 100,000 years ago. -- wrong

Scientists in Spain, however, have found a map that dates back to 14,000 years ago. Too bad -- couldn't exist.

The oldest evidence of alcohol comes from central China and is 9,000 years old. -- Well that makes sense -- the earth was founded by a bunch of drunkards.

Archaeologists have discovered a row of 12 pits which appear to reflect the phases of the Moon over the course of lunar months. The calendar is 10,000 years old, twice the age of the earliest sophisticated calendars from the Near East. -- Well 2012 didn't happen either.


Sibudu Cave in South Africa is an archaeological treasure trove with the earliest examples of at least three different uses of technology. The remnants of civilization in the cave stretch back over 77,000 years, and include the oldest needle, the oldest bedding, and one of the earliest ever bone arrowheads
-- Must be from aliens who came to the earth right?


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


Edited by endogenous (11/02/15 06:14 PM)


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Re: Head of House "Science" Committee Appointed Evolution Denier to Head Science Investigations [Re: Mr.GuessWork] * 1
    #22470068 - 11/03/15 08:51 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.GuessWork said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Mr.GuessWork said:
Quote:

Srirachi said:
Science is a modern religion that requires far more faith than any of the others, and is full of more deluded zealots than all the others combined.




That is a pretty big stretch. Are you really tying to compare a dude that works at NASA with the combination of a Muslim extremest suicide bomber, a christian scientist who lets his kid die from pneumonia, AND a guy who insists that there's not a rock on the planet that's older than a few thousand years? It's a lot harder to be deluded when you admit that you might be wrong.





have you met the true believers of science, they're just like the religious
zealots, global warming is real, there's a scientific consensus but GMOs cause
cancer because one fraud published a paper claiming it does even though it goes
against this same scientific consensus




Consensus is pretty rare in the new parts of science. The vast majority of people who study global warming stuff agree that the predictions have merit (I don't know much about it personally, but I trust them over the bible-thumping nay-sayers). On the other hand, one guy publishing a paper about GMOs and cancer doesn't count as science. Science requires a community so people can critically exam evidence and discuss it with other people who have informed opinions.




there's no consensus on global warming either, the original sample size was
10,000 publishing climate scientists but somehow only 79 were used to make a
'consensus' that global warming is caused by man. a pretty small consensus

Quote:

I have no idea what you mean by "true believers in science".




because science has become a religion to many regardless of what you choose to believe


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