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OfflineCookebot
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Registered: 10/29/15
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Poisoning?
    #22451147 - 10/29/15 09:04 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Hey everyone.  I have been reading many threads on this site for a long time, but now need some very direct information for an acquaintance.  My acquaintance has been feeling strange since last night and is worried about a potential poisoning.

Someone I met has been hunting mushrooms for a long time and has always been super cautious - only has eaten mushrooms that he was certain about e.g. chicken of the woods, hen of the woods, yellow and black morels, giant puffball, gem-studded puffball, crown-tipped coral, oysters, and as of a few years ago, pan subs annually based on a tip from a knowledgeable friend.

He went through all the identifying procedures for pan subs that first year but has reliably returned to the spot to eat without checking ever since - as long as the caps look right.  Any that didn't look right, he would throw out.  He had noticed however that pan subs whiten as they age and the first sporadic fruits of the fall season tend to have this time to age since his visits to the spot are infrequent until fruiting gets in to full swing.  The white ones always got thrown out before.

This year, he noticed that the season started late and he ate the first of the harvest last night, including the white ones.  He only has a dry, wrinkled cap left that neither of us can identify, so he can't go back to check ID, and he can't provide a useful picture.  But, he knows that the spore print was dark, just like the other pan subs, and the gills looked right, plus there was some cracking on the caps with age.  The collection site is a 15' tall pile of manure so there is no chance that there was some other substrate the caps were growing in.  So, his experience:

Last night at about 7:30pm he ate 3g dried fungus with approximately half being 100% certain pan subs and half being the older, white caps that he was certain enough were pan subs to eat.  He also had 1/2 a dose of LSD at the same time.  He said he always has some stomach discomfort when he eats mushrooms so when he felt that last night, he didn't worry.  But, today he had some very mild abdominal cramping, up until about 8:00pm tonight with some residual funny feeling.  Also, he had diarrhea 30 min ago, but he ate some fast food on the way home and that is typical for him after fast food.  He has no serious pain, vomiting, or other symptoms, but the abdominal cramping the next day is unusual.

Can anyone help?  I need to know if I should advise him to go to the hospital or if I can put him at relative ease. 

We think Conocybe albipes could have been misidentified and consumed.

Besides Conocybe albipes, are there other poisonous mushrooms with white caps, dark spore prints, and that grow on manure in fall in the great lakes region?

Many of the ID guides list C. albipes as poisonous but not deadly, can it be deadly?

If he ate some deadly fungi, would more serious symptoms necessarily be present or could mild abdominal cramping be the extent until the false recovery period?

Has anyone had this experience before?

Is there any way that he can tell at home through other, more subtle symptoms, if he might be poisoned?

All help is greatly appreciated.  Needless to say, if he makes it through, he will return to his previous level of caution.


--------------------
"Whether we respond to facets of nature with wide-eyed amazement or knowing nods depends on what our theories and predispositions led us to expect".  -Connor and Simberloff

United we stand, divided we fall.  Let's take our minds, bodies, and nation back with liberty and justice for all!  They're selling us lies, but don't believe the hype.  Before they come for you, better learn to snipe.



Any information, stories, or ideas exchanged here are purely hypothetical and are for speculation purposes only.


Edited by Cookebot (10/29/15 10:53 PM)


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OfflineMental Taco
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Re: Poisoning? [Re: Cookebot]
    #22451171 - 10/29/15 09:09 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Wish you luck man
When shit get serious go to er
Make sure you arent till tripping and freaking yourself out tho


--------------------
Did you not know that the royal hunting grounds are always forbidden?


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OfflineCookebot
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Re: Poisoning? [Re: Mental Taco]
    #22451198 - 10/29/15 09:13 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks man, he is fairly familiar with the afterglow of several different substances, but says that the overwhelming feeling is that of anxiety.  I am closely monitoring and will absolutely recommend going to the hospital if symptoms get serious.


--------------------
"Whether we respond to facets of nature with wide-eyed amazement or knowing nods depends on what our theories and predispositions led us to expect".  -Connor and Simberloff

United we stand, divided we fall.  Let's take our minds, bodies, and nation back with liberty and justice for all!  They're selling us lies, but don't believe the hype.  Before they come for you, better learn to snipe.



Any information, stories, or ideas exchanged here are purely hypothetical and are for speculation purposes only.


Edited by Cookebot (10/29/15 10:53 PM)


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Offline99.99
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Re: Poisoning? [Re: Cookebot]
    #22451477 - 10/29/15 09:56 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I can't stand fucktards that use swim... Won't even try to help now


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InvisibleMidnightCity
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Re: Poisoning? [Re: 99.99]
    #22451488 - 10/29/15 09:59 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

99.99 said:
I can't stand fucktards that use swim... Won't even try to help now




That's a bit harsh, but yeah the "SWIM" thing is a huge turn-off.


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OfflineCookebot
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Re: Poisoning? [Re: 99.99]
    #22451540 - 10/29/15 10:09 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

99.99 said:
I can't stand fucktards that use swim... Won't even try to help now



Look, I apologize for the irritation, but I'm seriously looking for some help here.  If it's that big of a deal, I won't use it in the future.  Seems pretty common in some other forums though.  I'd like to think it's not a big enough issue to get mad and avoid giving some friendly advice.


--------------------
"Whether we respond to facets of nature with wide-eyed amazement or knowing nods depends on what our theories and predispositions led us to expect".  -Connor and Simberloff

United we stand, divided we fall.  Let's take our minds, bodies, and nation back with liberty and justice for all!  They're selling us lies, but don't believe the hype.  Before they come for you, better learn to snipe.



Any information, stories, or ideas exchanged here are purely hypothetical and are for speculation purposes only.


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OfflineCookebot
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Registered: 10/29/15
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Re: Poisoning? [Re: Cookebot]
    #22451914 - 10/30/15 12:44 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

... Still having mild abdominal cramping almost 30 hrs after ingestion.  Doesn't anyone have any insight, please?


--------------------
"Whether we respond to facets of nature with wide-eyed amazement or knowing nods depends on what our theories and predispositions led us to expect".  -Connor and Simberloff

United we stand, divided we fall.  Let's take our minds, bodies, and nation back with liberty and justice for all!  They're selling us lies, but don't believe the hype.  Before they come for you, better learn to snipe.



Any information, stories, or ideas exchanged here are purely hypothetical and are for speculation purposes only.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Poisoning? [Re: Cookebot]
    #22452035 - 10/30/15 01:53 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Probably some kind of microbe


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineCookebot
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Re: Poisoning? [Re: koods]
    #22452044 - 10/30/15 01:58 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks Koods.  I have been considering that as a possibility.  So there is nothing about this account that makes you think poisonous mushroom?  No deadly dung-lovers that would fit that description?


--------------------
"Whether we respond to facets of nature with wide-eyed amazement or knowing nods depends on what our theories and predispositions led us to expect".  -Connor and Simberloff

United we stand, divided we fall.  Let's take our minds, bodies, and nation back with liberty and justice for all!  They're selling us lies, but don't believe the hype.  Before they come for you, better learn to snipe.



Any information, stories, or ideas exchanged here are purely hypothetical and are for speculation purposes only.


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Invisiblemetalfaith
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Re: Poisoning? [Re: Cookebot]
    #22452203 - 10/30/15 04:05 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Cookebot said:
Thanks Koods.  I have been considering that as a possibility.  So there is nothing about this account that makes you think poisonous mushroom?  No deadly dung-lovers that would fit that description?




Where are you located roughly?

That will help some answer whether or not there are any deadly dung lovers.

All I know for sure is that there are definitely potentially deadly mushrooms that could take longer than that to manifest full symptoms. Read up though.


--------------------


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OfflineAnglerfishM
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Re: Poisoning? [Re: Cookebot]
    #22452266 - 10/30/15 05:14 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Cookebot said:
So there is nothing about this account that makes you think poisonous mushroom?  No deadly dung-lovers that would fit that description?




There are no dark spored, manure loving mushrooms that are toxic. And you seriously wouldn't mistake a Conocybe sp.
for Panaeolus in any case.

Maybe you involuntarily ingested som feces. :poop: :tongue:


--------------------




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OfflineCookebot
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Re: Poisoning? [Re: Anglerfish]
    #22452443 - 10/30/15 06:44 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

The feeling is a little better this morning but was worse with beer last night - almost certain it wasn't any sort of coprinopsis though.  Still some mild discomfort.

Metalfaith - In ohio.

Anglerfish - If I just ate some poo and have a bug, that's alright by me.  The pictures I saw of C. albipes made it look like a possibility...


--------------------
"Whether we respond to facets of nature with wide-eyed amazement or knowing nods depends on what our theories and predispositions led us to expect".  -Connor and Simberloff

United we stand, divided we fall.  Let's take our minds, bodies, and nation back with liberty and justice for all!  They're selling us lies, but don't believe the hype.  Before they come for you, better learn to snipe.



Any information, stories, or ideas exchanged here are purely hypothetical and are for speculation purposes only.


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InvisibleDavidReishi
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Re: Poisoning? [Re: Cookebot]
    #22452520 - 10/30/15 07:14 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Stomach cramping is definitely a component of 'food poisoning' or microbes. I learned this personally after being handed a peach sample at the Berkeley farmer's market. Nausea and vomiting that day, but then awful stomach cramps for three days, which were often so bad I'd be writhing in pain...especially after a bong hit of weed. I started to become convinced something else was wrong with me.


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Offlineelementblazin
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Re: Poisoning? [Re: DavidReishi]
    #22452529 - 10/30/15 07:19 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quick Questions:

Where in the world are you?

Are the cinctulus found in dung or in grass lawns?

If you live in Southern California by chance, and you mistakenly ate a whiter look cap from a lawn you could easily die or be very sick.
I've found at least 15 different white capped species on lawns here in Southern California, and at least 3 of them were toxic, and one was deadly!


--------------------
My CA Legend:
A plus sign (+) means I took it within 20 minutes of then.
A minus sign (-) means I took it more than 20 minutes ago, but it's still active.


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Offlineelementblazin
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Re: Poisoning? [Re: elementblazin]
    #22452533 - 10/30/15 07:21 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Ah in Ohio, off of dung. Chances are you are fine. I don't think there is a single known DUNG LOVING KILLER mushroom in Ohio.

Correct me if I'm wrong folks.

You might just get sick.


--------------------
My CA Legend:
A plus sign (+) means I took it within 20 minutes of then.
A minus sign (-) means I took it more than 20 minutes ago, but it's still active.


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OfflineCookebot
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Re: Poisoning? [Re: Cookebot]
    #22452729 - 10/30/15 08:52 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

DavidReishi, ElementNature - Thanks.  You are putting me at ease.  I'm still waiting for someone to say that there is a deadly dung-lover that could have been consumed, and I'm monitoring symptoms.

I read Mushrooms: Poisons and Panaceas about a decade ago.  I can't seem to find the book now, unfortunately.  I know this reaction is unusual as it is a new experience, but it doesn't fit any of the severe reactions I have read about.  That's why I'm wondering if there is some variation in the severity of initial amatoxin poisoning.  With the almost immediate onset and 36+ hour duration, I have ruled out orellanine poisoning.

Pee looks good, no elevated thirst, not feeling particularly weak.  No vomiting, no lasting diarrhea.  Just the mild cramping.


--------------------
"Whether we respond to facets of nature with wide-eyed amazement or knowing nods depends on what our theories and predispositions led us to expect".  -Connor and Simberloff

United we stand, divided we fall.  Let's take our minds, bodies, and nation back with liberty and justice for all!  They're selling us lies, but don't believe the hype.  Before they come for you, better learn to snipe.



Any information, stories, or ideas exchanged here are purely hypothetical and are for speculation purposes only.


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InvisibleDavidReishi
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Re: Poisoning? [Re: Cookebot]
    #22452969 - 10/30/15 10:10 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

No problem. Btw, after three days of torment, I found acetaminophen to be surprisingly effective at relieving the stomach cramps.


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InvisibleRuralAnomaly
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Re: Poisoning? [Re: Anglerfish]
    #22452981 - 10/30/15 10:16 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Anglerfish said:
Quote:

Cookebot said:
So there is nothing about this account that makes you think poisonous mushroom?  No deadly dung-lovers that would fit that description?




There are no dark spored, manure loving mushrooms that are toxic. And you seriously wouldn't mistake a Conocybe sp.
for Panaeolus in any case.

Maybe you involuntarily ingested som feces. :poop: :tongue:




i just wanted to reassure you that despite the 'foreign source' hehe he's right and since i'm in Ohio too and have a dung producer myself that might help reinforce the idea that you can relax, which may go a long way to relieving those symptoms.  get you some pepto bismol  (also not affiliated in anyway with that company lol.)

also welcome to the forum, and good on you to ask for help when you need it.  how about posting a pic of your last specimen.

if i had to guess its also possible that it was a beefy Bolbitius titubans or other bolbitius sp - thats just based on ones i've found personally in the dung around here that have darkish spoors

i'm seeing what i think are Lepista nuda lately in the rotting hay debris (but not in the manure)


--------------------
bite my basidiocarp


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OfflineCookebot
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Re: Poisoning? [Re: Cookebot]
    #22453156 - 10/30/15 11:10 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks RuralAnomaly!  I can post a pic of the very poor specimen that's left after my kid goes down for a nap - she only just woke up from her last one.  I can also post pics of the target species the next time I go to my spot.


--------------------
"Whether we respond to facets of nature with wide-eyed amazement or knowing nods depends on what our theories and predispositions led us to expect".  -Connor and Simberloff

United we stand, divided we fall.  Let's take our minds, bodies, and nation back with liberty and justice for all!  They're selling us lies, but don't believe the hype.  Before they come for you, better learn to snipe.



Any information, stories, or ideas exchanged here are purely hypothetical and are for speculation purposes only.


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OfflineMr. Wilson
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Re: Poisoning? [Re: Cookebot]
    #22453213 - 10/30/15 11:27 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

man damn
if this helps
I once eat some fresh cubes I grew and got a pretty miserable case of food poisoning  soo.. :shrug:

I will never eat wet shrooms again


--------------------
******


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