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Offlinehalfzero
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so, since a shaman is never self-proclaimed
    #22450197 - 10/29/15 05:33 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

what course of action does one take when the title is given sincerely by many disparate groups of people?

i mention this to close friends on occasion (not realizing that it was sort of an "unspoken" rule that a person claiming shaman-hood was generally not shamanic): about a year after separating from my family due to abuse, traveling, being "baptized in the sea of the hungry", meeting and making friends w/ strange people in strange places - i was being consistently referred to as the group "shaman". disparate groups of people and instances, enough distance and degrees of separation for me to know that it's not a social meme perpetuating itself.

the reason i made this thread is because i was always very genuinely suprised when people would (usually suddenly) gift me with the shaman title. and during those times, i was a bit close-mouthed, never one to make proclamations about myself or my character (b/c i had no idea who/what i was), especially not grand titles like that.

it happened enough that i began to take note of it, and it slowly became a fact of my existence to have shamanism tied into my being in a strange, shadow-y, indirect way. never knew what to do w/ it tho (but always felt a pull towards mysticism from youth even in a superstitious family, so once i was old enough to think i dabbled/am dabbling)

tl;dr: the title seems to have been granted to me. what now?

(bonus round: in the same way, i get "alien" a lot. on occasion, often with tuned-in clairvoyant types, it's one of the first things that's said about me before anything is known about me. )

also hey, what's up, i'm halfzero. new kid on the board


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: so, since a shaman is never self-proclaimed [Re: halfzero]
    #22450214 - 10/29/15 05:35 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

interesting...I meet plenty of eccentric/mystical type people but never anyone I would specifically call a shaman. You must have some juju in your blood or something.


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: so, since a shaman is never self-proclaimed [Re: halfzero]
    #22450267 - 10/29/15 05:48 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

What is your personal definition of Shaman?


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Offlinehalfzero
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Re: so, since a shaman is never self-proclaimed [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #22450315 - 10/29/15 06:00 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

rbalzer said:
interesting...I meet plenty of eccentric/mystical type people but never anyone I would specifically call a shaman. You must have some juju in your blood or something.



lol, hard to say. my family believed in christ consciousness but that's all i remember. can't really go back and ask

Quote:

FishOilTheKid said:
What is your personal definition of Shaman?



thats the thing: ive never really known. i know what traditional shamans got up to, but also know that times are very very different now; the archetype has definitely morphed

from what i've gathered over time i'd say a shaman is an entity/force that is a sort of intentional or necessary hiccup in the fabric. something that begets chaos for the purpose of soothing it into peace. it is a dualistic thing that defines the balance of greater opposing forces


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Re: so, since a shaman is never self-proclaimed [Re: halfzero]
    #22450325 - 10/29/15 06:02 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

You're not a shaman.  In this subforum, there's a lot of shaman-this and shaman-that.  But it's nonsense.  There are no American or European shamans (except a handful of American Indians), and very, very few left remaining in the entire world.  It's a virtually dead lineage.

But that does not mean you are not spiritually adept.  You're just not a shaman.


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: so, since a shaman is never self-proclaimed [Re: DividedQuantum] * 2
    #22450338 - 10/29/15 06:04 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
You're not a shaman.  In this subforum, there's a lot of shaman-this and shaman-that.  But it's nonsense.  There are no American or European shamans (except a handful of American Indians), and very, very few left remaining in the entire world.  It's a virtually dead lineage.

But that does not mean you are not spiritually adept.  You're just not a shaman.



you're accomplishing a lot here by shitting on neo-shamanism.

"if its not the way it was in remote tribes, its nothing."

Its just people who talk to the spirit world. Split hairs somewhere where it matters


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: so, since a shaman is never self-proclaimed [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #22450347 - 10/29/15 06:08 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Its just people who talk to the spirit world.




This is what I was wondering about...  And if they talk back and go out and influence reality for others.


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Offlinehalfzero
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Re: so, since a shaman is never self-proclaimed [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22450354 - 10/29/15 06:10 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
You're not a shaman.  In this subforum, there's a lot of shaman-this and shaman-that.  But it's nonsense.  There are no American or European shamans (except a handful of American Indians), and very, very few left remaining in the entire world.  It's a virtually dead lineage.

But that does not mean you are not spiritually adept.  You're just not a shaman.




not saying ur wrong, b/c i don't know (how do you know that, anyway?)
but of course there are few actual shamans left, the culture we live in has no ceremonies for such people to exist in the same ways they did in those times


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Re: so, since a shaman is never self-proclaimed [Re: halfzero]
    #22450389 - 10/29/15 06:19 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

halfzero said:
not saying ur wrong, b/c i don't know (how do you know that, anyway?)
but of course there are few actual shamans left, the culture we live in has no ceremonies for such people to exist in the same ways they did in those times




My point exactly.  Actually, I got an anthropology degree and have studied shamanism.  A lot more goes into it than just communicating with the spirit world.  In reality, you need a tribal system for it to be actual shamanism.  It's perfectly fine to have modern spirit-world adepts, but to call them shamans is to abuse the anthropological reality.


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: so, since a shaman is never self-proclaimed [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22450443 - 10/29/15 06:35 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Very interesting. Please excuse my bigotry earlier. I would appreciate if you told us more about how the tribe plays into it.


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Re: so, since a shaman is never self-proclaimed [Re: Psilosopherr] * 1
    #22450517 - 10/29/15 06:50 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Sure.  In a tribal setting, of maybe ten to twelve in a camp and fifty or so in a band, the shaman was like a doctor/healer/psychonaut/priest all in one person.  It is said that generally, schizophrenic or schizoid types were selected for this position -- which was lifelong -- and that, not only were they not denigrated and discriminated against as they are in modern society, they were in fact revered and treasured for their psychological abnormality.  But in the role I described, it was one-on-one and intimate with all members of the smallish tribal band.  Obviously, you could not make an institution out of this.  And the tribal lore would have no life without the spiritual immediacy of the shaman.  So it was a close, symbiotic relationship.  And the rituals were honed over, in some cases, thousands of years, going back and having been passed down directly.  So the spiritual wisdom and techniques cannot be passed off second hand, or reinvented in a cursory way, as a modern shaman, with no ties to the past, would have to do.

I hope that makes it clearer.


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: so, since a shaman is never self-proclaimed [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22450587 - 10/29/15 07:08 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

that does, thank you.

At the very least this will improve my roleplaying a shaman in D&D :grin:


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Re: so, since a shaman is never self-proclaimed [Re: halfzero]
    #22450772 - 10/29/15 07:51 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

You're the source of everything in the universe - so, of course you are a shaman.

This may sound funny, but it's true - each individual is the source.  Don't worry about names or labels too much -- also, don't worry about those worry about them. :smile: :sun:

Peace and love, etc - are the way and the path.

Simple love and light is the basic thing.  Those who worship persuasion fall away - from truth - very quickly.

The concept of those who are enlightened, shamans, Bodhisattvas, or any such thing not speaking about it is an interesting one....

Being quiet and silent is the basic path as well -- as - there is ntohing to do.


Active Evil, Passive Good - as beloved Will Blake put it -- yet; that is not a hard and fast rule either --

in Vimalakirti Nirdesa Sutra for instance -- the version translated by Charles Luk is very nice -- it's explained -- inactivity is one of the three gates to Nirvana, yet Bodhisattvas use words to bring others to enlightenment.


The only type of people who will ever try to tear others down are those who are feeling that way themselves -- same as the only types who will ever try to make you feel bad are those who are feeling that way themselves.


In truth - you are infinitely free; you are the creator of this whole universe... as are all of us -


We are all creating it together.  Also - all is one, etc. 


You are free - essentially, this is the main thing. . . And, a pretty strong rule that seems to always apply is -


those who are free tell others, you are free; those who are bound tell others, they are bound.



































How much your life is sacred depends on many things -- only you know.  Self-faith is the primary thing, and I could write many pages on this, I have, quite a few thousand. .. .



Hehe - a good place to share an interesting thought I had recently :smile:  I could write billions of words on self-trust, and never exhaust the subject - nor my fingers.

:wink:



In truth - all is sacred, all is holy.  Don't forget this!  Yepper.  So - materialism has gone astray--


from the sacred path - but we can get right back on it.



Indeed all life is sacred, holy, and divine -- how much you connect with Earth, the only mother, is entirely up to you.



The more connected - the more of her love, beauty and wisdom you will experience in your life -- and, the more legitimately you will be able to call yourself a wise person, or shaman.



The further separated you are, the less you will experience perfect health, love, beauty and bliss which comes from her connection -- the less you will see the sacred;


and, in general, the more you would seek to keep others bound, etc.



In truth - all is light. . . this is an extremely important fact; and the reason it is important is essential or necessary as well.


I've known this since I was a babe -- and, children are worthy of our respect and honor, just to share.


A good example of why this is - a child is able to learn 5-6 languages all at once, within a 2 year period or so - if they are all spoken to her / him.  What would be the correct term for an adult,

who was able to learn 5-6 languages simultaneously, in a 2 year period -- with no extra effort -- perfect ease --

and with no stress or strain? 


The only label which seems to fit there, to me, is super-genius.  So - children are capable of this -- all children, basically -- this is a very important point which has a lot of liberating potential.


Children learn a lot - more than adults are able to, the majority of the time -- maintaining or preserving what is naturally there -- this is pretty much the whole of the spiritual path.



Preservation ( and prevention ) is far more important, valuable, and essential than attainment.

Or in other words, far more basic.


Anyway - the reason why this is important, that all is light - is that light can never be damaged; and I could write more about this, another time.


The essential thing is to know that our basic nature is love and light, and to achieve a total realization of this is very easy -- only requires removing the dross. . . It is as easy or difficult as we make it.



When humanity awakens to light and love, etc -- peace will be here for good.



Indeed - the whole world is already awakened, woken up - enlightened; every human being is enlightened; Bankei and others share beautifully on this point -- as Ramana wrote, the only impediment is the very idea of an impediment.



Self-faith, self-trust, etc. are the basic path and means -- find the answer for yourself; have faith in yourself, come to the truth yourself -- and then share the path of peace.



This world and universe is wonderful and vast -- vast and infinite.  Follow your heart -- every wise person shares this.



You definitely and certainly are a shaman, when you act from wisdom, and from love, for the earth, and for all beings -- and all of this is you, all of the time -- how much you get it is up to you -


There's a nice thing I share sometimes -- how much peace we get in this life is up to us, and I do say there is infinite peace.



You are free - and beautiful - and infinite.  It is quite insane for someone to say you are not this, or you are not that - when they do not know you.





You are from earth mother -- you are born from earth mother -- you are entirely sacred, beautiful, holy and divine --



You come from earth mother; You are from here.  You are born from Earth -- so do not let anyone try to tell you you are not sacred , divine life on earth -- valuable, meaningful --


and, when you have true visions -- authoritative for a speaker for her love, her light, her life, and her wisdom.



I hope this makes sense. :smile:  :sun: 



You are all people of the earth -- all the sun, sky and sea -- and you will surely succeed in what you do, when your heart is in the right place.



As for the points of medicine men, holy women or men, shamans, Buddhas -- or any other spiritual leadership role --


as for them not proclaiming it -- as I say, this is an interesting topic.  For one thing - true leaders


always share the path of self-faith, self-trust, etc -- no one who is truly wise, wants followers;


They want to share wisdom, peace, beauty, bliss and love -- and for all to awaken; to be their full potential



to help each reach their own Ideal, etc -



As Rumi said, 'Do not follow others.'



Each divine one always shares - follow your own heart, etc. wisdom, beauty, peace and love.



So -------------------------
----------------
----------------
----------------  ---------------- ---------------- ---------------- ----------------



There are several good reasons for not speaking about one's enlightenment or abilities --


Being silent is, after all, often the wisest thing -- for many reasons.  Yet as mentioned -- enlightened ones frequently use words to bring others to enlightenment.



So it's not like an all or nothing thing -- and; again, it's not so much necessary to set up rules like that -- 'ah, never use words,' etc.


Although -- there is an infinite beauty, freedom, bliss, love, spaciousness, clarity -- etc., which exists without words, or beyond words.


And there definitely is a lot about that, etc--



Anyway; infinite love, infinite beauty, infinite bliss, and success to you brother --



May you always walk in light - beauty - wisdom, love, and peace.



Love and peace,
J



Follow your own heart and answer your own questions --- Always speak up if wrongness is said!!



This is very important -- and, the truth always outshines all.  So - it's very very important to speak up when the time is right.



Oh - and, as far as self-trust goes -- this leads to perfection which is beyond thoughts... Very beautiful!!!!


So - self-trust basically leads you to divinity; when you have wisdom, and so forth.


Keep up the good work -- for the sacred, for love - for peace, beauty, wisdom and bliss.


I'll be away from Shroomery for a while -- all is open, free, clear, beautiful --


Clear day -- Beautiful day -- The Way is Open,


etc.


Infinite love, bliss and peace to you brother.


May you always have light, love, peace and happiness - and may all your endeavors succeed.


Love and peace,
J


--------------------
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Re: so, since a shaman is never self-proclaimed [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #22450788 - 10/29/15 07:53 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

like i say the point of not speaking of yourself is an interesting one - one which can be explored, there are many aspects.

once again, infinite light, peace, love, bliss, etc.

love and peace,
J


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
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Re: so, since a shaman is never self-proclaimed [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #22450797 - 10/29/15 07:54 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

anyway so - the very most basic thing is - trust yourself, when the time and place are right, you will always know, etc.

love and peace,
J


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
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Re: so, since a shaman is never self-proclaimed [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #22450802 - 10/29/15 07:55 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

i just - gosh, cannot help saying again (!!) -

but all is light,

infinite love,

peace, bliss

etc. :heart:


every person is light -- beyond me, far beyond. . . at every moment, what people are awakening to --


what may i say i can see? hehe


compared to every other person -- so much love, beauty light -- all around. . .


infinite light!  stay alright :heart:


love and light

peace and bliss,
Once

love and light :sun: infinite -- beauty -- wisdom -- love -- peace.

all around - within every form of the universe - possible to awaken to within an instant;

you are certainly connected to mother earth and

legitimately speak for her.

light, and love,
once


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
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large  . . music garden . .  very
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Re: so, since a shaman is never self-proclaimed [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #22450840 - 10/29/15 08:01 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

where is love? where is god? where is mother?

this is the question i always ask -- always brings me closer to my brother --

etc ---


if you are on the path -- you'll see, you're light... for all beings -- for all time


You'll always wish for a teacher -- for someone, to be your equal! ! 


You'll always seek to raise others to your level; to give strength,


etc --


And -------- --------

:heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart:

:sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun:


this is the beautiful -- wild, beautiful thing about it -- there are so many levels. .. so --


there's so much light -- so many thousands of worlds -- and there are always higher worlds.


So .. . that's what's beautiful.


Anyway - Peace.
Once.


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
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Re: so, since a shaman is never self-proclaimed [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #22450855 - 10/29/15 08:03 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

peace, love, light - i'm always looking for Amitabha, I'm always looking for light.  Light is always around. 

Peace,
Once

all are free -

all are light -

may all beings be happy,
may all beings be healthy,
may all beings be peace


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: so, since a shaman is never self-proclaimed [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22450959 - 10/29/15 08:22 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

:awesomenod: Pretty much true with indigenous peoples in the Americas, Siberia, the former Tibet, and everywhere else I can think of.


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Re: so, since a shaman is never self-proclaimed [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22451103 - 10/29/15 08:53 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

all is infinite light.

rofl.

stop with the negativity dq there's no reason for it.

all are earth, love, light, bliss, etc.

and markos - you're fine, brother -

except when you exhibit shcadenfreude. .. then, please, relax and let go -- do not try to control, etc.


infinite love, peace, bliss, etc.


all life - all peace.



infinite love, infinite light, infinite bliss, infinite peace.



all are love, all are light, all are peace --



do not try to divide the earth, lol, or her beloved ones from her --



that is pure wrongness.



love, light, bliss, peace, truth wisdom, etc.



infinite love, bliss, light, peace, wisdom, to all.  Peace!


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
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Re: so, since a shaman is never self-proclaimed [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #22451116 - 10/29/15 08:56 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

spam much? fuck me  :rollingsohard:


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Re: so, since a shaman is never self-proclaimed [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #22451119 - 10/29/15 08:57 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I WISH YOU PEACE.

Love our mother earth.

Leave her in peace.


You do not speak for sacred traditions if you live in a mansion built on the backs of the poor.



Infinite love, light, peace, bliss.



Get off the materialist bandwagon -- that is killing her.




And do not attempt to speak for sacred traditions which by your very actions and activities you slaughter.




Infinite love, light, peace, bliss and wisdom, to all.



All life, all light, all peace.


Once.


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
Starhouse - main
Time Traveler's Guide


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sun child
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Re: so, since a shaman is never self-proclaimed [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #22451126 - 10/29/15 08:58 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

You had it right the first time, bro - shitting on people who call themselves shamans is not kind,

nor is it good, nor is it right.

Love, light.


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
Starhouse - main
Time Traveler's Guide


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sun child
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Re: so, since a shaman is never self-proclaimed [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #22451136 - 10/29/15 09:01 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

and when your main defender is one who publicly praises hitler - good god, yo.



Love, light.


Alllife, allpeace.


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
Starhouse - main
Time Traveler's Guide


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sun child
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Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 1,807
Re: so, since a shaman is never self-proclaimed [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #22451137 - 10/29/15 09:01 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Love, light, peace.


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
Starhouse - main
Time Traveler's Guide


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sun child
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Re: so, since a shaman is never self-proclaimed [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #22451155 - 10/29/15 09:05 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Infinite love, light and peace.


This is the basic thing -- all living beings are connected to earth mother -- open your eyes, learn to see -- never look back.


Love, Light, Strength, Peace, and Good Health, to all beings --


Life, Love, Light, and peace.


Strength to all.

Peace to all.


It should be naturally understood that those who are truly strong, wish to share strength - etc. and the rest.


Love and light - Peace.


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
Starhouse - main
Time Traveler's Guide


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OfflineTheGreenArrow
Goodbye, Mr. Chops.
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Posts: 15,270
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Re: so, since a shaman is never self-proclaimed [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #22452076 - 10/30/15 02:18 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Fiddlesticks.


--------------------
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an
invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, conn a ship, write a
sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the
dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve an
equation, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a
computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.- Robert A. Heinlein
Saint RedBow of the Shroomey Loomey-Patron Saint of Sandbaggin Sumbitchs


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Offlinehalfzero
cucumber
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Registered: 10/29/15
Posts: 11
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
Re: so, since a shaman is never self-proclaimed [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #22452143 - 10/30/15 03:14 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

i appreciate your words, friend

i like the idea that bodhisattvas affect change through speech


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