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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
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Novogranatense Humidity Requirements
#22450159 - 10/29/15 05:27 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I am aware that novos can survive in fairly low humidity, but I live in the desert, and the is usually around 25-30%, and drops below 20 occasionally. I try acclimating my novo seedlings to the climate here gradually by slowly poking holes in the humidity dome (plastic bag), and lifting a corner of the bag more and more over time, but the leaves shrivel up quickly after the bag is removed, and they never really seem to acclimate fully.
I have a few novos that have managed to survive for about 5 months. All of them have lost at least half their leaves due to shock at one point or another. The top growth tips are all bare, but the ones that survived have all bushed out on the lower part of the stem, and have grown many small leaves. The large leaves are always lost. Part of the problem is night-time cold shock, because my gf has some kind of body temperature issue and leaves the sliding door open every night >.<
I have sorted out the temperature problem, but I want to know if anyone has any information about humidity requirements. Thank you!
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Oggy
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Registered: 12/05/14
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Re: Novogranatense Humidity Requirements [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22450200 - 10/29/15 05:33 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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That's a pretty moist desert. When I start growing plants I always sprout them in a humidity dome because of lower mortality rates. When it's time to move them out of the dome, I put a large plastic baggy with small cuts in the plastic over it. After a week I add more cuts to the plastic. Until it's basically out in the open. Eventually your plant will start growing new leaves that should be acclimated to the environment.
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
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Re: Novogranatense Humidity Requirements [Re: Oggy]
#22450233 - 10/29/15 05:40 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Oggy said: That's a pretty moist desert. When I start growing plants I always sprout them in a humidity dome because of lower mortality rates. When it's time to move them out of the dome, I put a large plastic baggy with small cuts in the plastic over it. After a week I add more cuts to the plastic. Until it's basically out in the open. Eventually your plant will start growing new leaves that should be acclimated to the environment.
Should I acclimate them when they're small, or wait til they get larger? I think the problem is that I've been waiting til the get big 1" leaves on them before acclimating them. The big leaves always dry out fast and die.
I have a bunch of seedlings to play around with right now, so I guess I can try a few different things...
BTW, the term desert may be used a bit loosely here. I live in E. Washington. We've probably had 3-5 days where it rained all year, but I'm sure the humidity is a bit lower in Arizona.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (10/29/15 05:41 PM)
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Oggy
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Re: Novogranatense Humidity Requirements [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22450252 - 10/29/15 05:46 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I am not sure about these particular plants. I've never tried growing them. I just use this method of acclimating all of my seedlings. I grow a lot of fruits and vegetables over the winter and they need to be acclimated slowly before I put them outside or their growth is stunted/they ded.
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Bigbadwooof
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Registered: 12/07/13
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Re: Novogranatense Humidity Requirements [Re: Oggy]
#22450296 - 10/29/15 05:56 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Oggy said: I am not sure about these particular plants. I've never tried growing them. I just use this method of acclimating all of my seedlings. I grow a lot of fruits and vegetables over the winter and they need to be acclimated slowly before I put them outside or their growth is stunted/they ded.
When do you begin reducing the humidity? When they get their first set of true leaves?
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Oggy
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Re: Novogranatense Humidity Requirements [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22450371 - 10/29/15 06:13 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I start acclimating them when they have a very good root system.
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cowsRmeat
Don't step on the MomeRaths



Registered: 04/23/14
Posts: 3,153
Loc: Wonderland
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Re: Novogranatense Humidity Requirements [Re: Oggy]
#22450650 - 10/29/15 07:23 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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For novos, I usually say wait until they have like 3-4 sets of true leaves. Usually like 3-4in tall or so. I wouldn't start as soon as they have true leaves, but not too long after... The thing with novos is that they like a lot of humidity when they are sprouting, but soon after they become very vulnerable to damping off. So until they are just a little bit older (like 3 or so sets of true leaves), you have to play a balancing act between keeping them some humidity, and not letting them start damping off... Once they start taking off after that, they are nice and hardy.
-------------------- One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree. 'Which road do I take?' she asked. 'Where do you want to go?' was his response. 'I don't know', Alice answered. 'Then', said the cat, 'it doesn't matter.'
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
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Re: Novogranatense Humidity Requirements [Re: cowsRmeat]
#22450755 - 10/29/15 07:47 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
cowsRmeat said: For novos, I usually say wait until they have like 3-4 sets of true leaves. Usually like 3-4in tall or so. I wouldn't start as soon as they have true leaves, but not too long after... The thing with novos is that they like a lot of humidity when they are sprouting, but soon after they become very vulnerable to damping off. So until they are just a little bit older (like 3 or so sets of true leaves), you have to play a balancing act between keeping them some humidity, and not letting them start damping off... Once they start taking off after that, they are nice and hardy.
I've never had one fall victem to damping off, actually, and I've started over 30 so far. Only 4 are still alive, but I've got 15 babies I just started for my 3rd fucking try at these guys *tear*. I want these plants in my collection BADLY. I have considered growing them in an SGFC, but WSS said they need a fan on them.
I keep running into this problem where the leaves turn white, dry out and fall off. It's a temperature and humidity issue, I'm fairly certain. I notice as soon as I remove the humidity tent they start to shrivel and lose leaves. Also, when it gets too hot/cold they die >.<
These guys are fucking finicky.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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cowsRmeat
Don't step on the MomeRaths



Registered: 04/23/14
Posts: 3,153
Loc: Wonderland
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Re: Novogranatense Humidity Requirements [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22450876 - 10/29/15 08:06 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
cowsRmeat said: For novos, I usually say wait until they have like 3-4 sets of true leaves. Usually like 3-4in tall or so. I wouldn't start as soon as they have true leaves, but not too long after... The thing with novos is that they like a lot of humidity when they are sprouting, but soon after they become very vulnerable to damping off. So until they are just a little bit older (like 3 or so sets of true leaves), you have to play a balancing act between keeping them some humidity, and not letting them start damping off... Once they start taking off after that, they are nice and hardy.
I've never had one fall victem to damping off, actually, and I've started over 30 so far. Only 4 are still alive, but I've got 15 babies I just started for my 3rd fucking try at these guys *tear*. I want these plants in my collection BADLY. I have considered growing them in an SGFC, but WSS said they need a fan on them.
I keep running into this problem where the leaves turn white, dry out and fall off. It's a temperature and humidity issue, I'm fairly certain. I notice as soon as I remove the humidity tent they start to shrivel and lose leaves. Also, when it gets too hot/cold they die >.<
These guys are fucking finicky.
Hmm, interesting. They are indeed finicky, although thankfully only while they are young (IME). With what you have described so far then, I would test one and just leave it in humidity for a long while. By that, I mean just leave it until you just think it can't take it any longer. My corner of the country has higher than average humidity, so since you are in such a dry area, try leaving it with the boosted humidity until it gets a good bit older. Maybe at the most put just one little slit or hole in your baggie/dome when it gets to the point I mentioned with a few sets of leaves, and then just leave it until it gets much older (like a couple months) and start weaning it down after that... Since you naturally have the lower humidity, that probably works in your favor to fight the damping off, so you should probably be able to get away with leaving it in there.
The whitening and eventual dropping of leaves sounds like what I have noticed before when I see them getting too dry (like from lack of me watering them)... Perhaps your troubles are stemming from your area's low humidity and they just need to be helped along a bit longer into their lives before being acclimated...
-------------------- One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree. 'Which road do I take?' she asked. 'Where do you want to go?' was his response. 'I don't know', Alice answered. 'Then', said the cat, 'it doesn't matter.'
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
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Last seen: 32 minutes, 3 seconds
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Re: Novogranatense Humidity Requirements [Re: cowsRmeat]
#22451648 - 10/29/15 10:47 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yes, I think this is what I am going to do. I will leave a few in a humidity tent for an extended period of time. I also think that maybe if I start to acclimate them before they get their first set of 1" size leaves, they might prepare themselves for it. Maybe they will grow smaller leaves from the start. The ones that have survived from my first round of berries have all lost their large leaves, and are now growing many small branches with 1/2" leaves on them.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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poofterFroth
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Re: Novogranatense Humidity Requirements [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22452339 - 10/30/15 05:55 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Regardless the age of your seedlings, try acclimating them much much much more slowly.
Seems like maybe your rushing this step because your anxious to see them flourish outside an ugly humidity tent. 
Definitely, always have a light fan or open window blowing on them to strengthen their stems from the get go.
If the leaves are curling or feel slightly brittle they might need a little watering. I rememeber reading somewhere that the leaves will sometime "molt" causing many to brown and drop off. So it may be a natural part of this plants lifecycle.
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Bigbadwooof
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Registered: 12/07/13
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Re: Novogranatense Humidity Requirements [Re: poofterFroth]
#22453413 - 10/30/15 12:25 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
poofterFroth said: Regardless the age of your seedlings, try acclimating them much much much more slowly.
Seems like maybe your rushing this step because your anxious to see them flourish outside an ugly humidity tent. 
Definitely, always have a light fan or open window blowing on them to strengthen their stems from the get go.
If the leaves are curling or feel slightly brittle they might need a little watering. I rememeber reading somewhere that the leaves will sometime "molt" causing many to brown and drop off. So it may be a natural part of this plants lifecycle.
You know... I actually think you're right. I think part of the problem is that I've been removing the bag too fast. I'm going to try poking a couple holes every other day, and then after 3 weeks to a month I will remove it. What do you think?
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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cowsRmeat
Don't step on the MomeRaths



Registered: 04/23/14
Posts: 3,153
Loc: Wonderland
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Re: Novogranatense Humidity Requirements [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22453930 - 10/30/15 02:57 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
poofterFroth said: Regardless the age of your seedlings, try acclimating them much much much more slowly.
Seems like maybe your rushing this step because your anxious to see them flourish outside an ugly humidity tent. 
Definitely, always have a light fan or open window blowing on them to strengthen their stems from the get go.
If the leaves are curling or feel slightly brittle they might need a little watering. I rememeber reading somewhere that the leaves will sometime "molt" causing many to brown and drop off. So it may be a natural part of this plants lifecycle.
You know... I actually think you're right. I think part of the problem is that I've been removing the bag too fast. I'm going to try poking a couple holes every other day, and then after 3 weeks to a month I will remove it. What do you think?
That does sound like a good idea. I honestly thought that is what you had been doing...
What about the ones you said are older? How what did you do with them that worked? What size were they when you weaned their humidity.
And for the 'molt', yes I know I've read about that before as well, but I think they don't start with doing that until they hit about a year old (I could be wrong though...). I know I haven't seen that phenomenon in person yet...
-------------------- One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree. 'Which road do I take?' she asked. 'Where do you want to go?' was his response. 'I don't know', Alice answered. 'Then', said the cat, 'it doesn't matter.'
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 32 minutes, 3 seconds
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Re: Novogranatense Humidity Requirements [Re: cowsRmeat]
#22454400 - 10/30/15 04:54 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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The first batch of them I just left the bags on for like 2 months+. Then I started poking holes in the bags and probably removed the bag within a week and a half-2 weeks. I don't remember exactly. They all hated being removed from the humidity though. I think I need to just continually poke more and more holes in the bag.
The last batch was mostly lost due to the wrong soil, I believe. I put one in the old soil mix left over from a dead novo, and the other 14 in the new mix. 14 died lmao. It was a coir and sand based mix with quite a bit less perlite.
Now I made a mix from African Violet soil, probably 5% coir, 50+% Perlite, and some (<5%) lawn soil that seamed to have quite a bit of clay in it. They seem to like it. It is a very light mix. I wet it down with pure mineral water that had soluble kelp extract and powder mycorrhizae mixed in.
I think the mycorrhizae is the reason I never get damping off.
Temperature changes like extreme heat (>85F) and cold (<65F) or drastic temperature swings at night are what has the most impact on the older plants. The younger plants seem to react to humidity changes quite poorly 
I just need to get better control of all of these things. I considered building a heat and humidity regulating terrarium, but that is somewhat tricky/expensive to do. Also, I can't get a fan on them to strengthen stems if they have humidity tents on them.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (10/30/15 04:55 PM)
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